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[quote=njtosd][quote=Blogstar]I guess I has jumped around reading old comments , CaRenter.
You can label the different bad acts by gender but it doesn’t change the water seeks it’s own level thing. Since you agree with me on the water seeks it’s own level, I find it odd, or perhaps hypocritical that you decidedly favor women on break-ups. I love you like a sister CaRenter,but like my real life sisters you are biased about these things weighing in favor of women. Probably as natural as treating men like they are permanently inadequate once the nest is full but demanding slave like responsibility from them just the same. Men don;’t get what they want and need to the degree that women do under these circumstances and I have not even mentioned sex yet. In this light looking for a newer model makes more sense and does not interfere with water seeks it’s own level or make men or women worse than the other one. It’s complicated.

Abandonment is interesting. There are biological forces that apply here too.
The woman knows the kids are hers. The mother in law knows the kids are hers.
Up until a few years ago the man new he had to work with or without kids and often but not always gives child support. Those are cultural aspects.

So, I am not saying this stuff is ideal but if you want to look like a broad minded person on this topic and not your basic man hater, you will have to look at this topic more broadly and express your views with a nuance that reflects that you have. But nobody changes the way they are , so carry on.

I think I am going to strut now.

I don’t usually like to stifle people but if you argue back at all you will be proving my point. Back to the aforementioned strutting.[/quote]

Can I just say it is a little funny that you have said (in different words, of course) that unless CA Renter lets you have the last word, she is a man hater? That sounds a little Fred Flintstone to me. And Fred was not a bad guy, of course, but I don’t think most men aspire to be him. He was a “star” though, a word that you’ve included in your screen name (also a little funny), and he also liked to strut, so maybe . . .[/quote]

I’m not a doclove guy but I’ve been influenced by similar thinkers and come to my own conclusions. Early on I was greatly influenced by James Thurber’s THE WAR BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN.

Make no mistake. It is boys v. Girls.

Do not let the girls win.

Of course it’s better for women to vent to other women. Men think many of womens concerns are unreasonable and nuts and often directly accusatory and certainly unhappy. Hell even other girlfriends eventually get tired of hearing the exact same complaints…when the root of it all often comes back to the guys general failures…I wonder if the tables were turned and vented at their women in the exact same way if women would just sit and listen?

No.

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[quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic]i would go so far as to say that the needier or more emotionally involved the man is, the more likely the woman is to seek divorce. it’s…unmanly….[/quote]

I would put needy (bad) and emotionally involved (good) in two different categories. My dad was what I would call emotionally involved long before it was normal for dads to be. He was very quiet about it and I respected him immensely. Parents were happily married for almost 60 years until he passed away in 2011.[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. Men should not fall into the vortex of women’s emotional states. Men should always be separate strong and apart. Women have friends for that.[/quote]

Maybe we are defining our terms differently. To me “emotionally uninvolved” was my grandfather who came home from work, ate dinner, read the newspaper and went to bed. Definitely separate, strong and apart. My mother (born 1927) said that he barely seemed to know she was alive. He didn’t seem to care – his emotions didn’t seem to be “involved”. What is your definition?[/quote]

Separate but not aloof.

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It is 10x better to be the type of guy who offends others than who is easily offended.

You don’t need to treat women like dirt.

But you need to make them seek your aporoval.

and put your feelings away. Don’t take them out except on special occasuons.

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[quote=CA renter][quote=Blogstar][quote=CA renter][quote=Blogstar]The making a family stage is the easiest as far as maintaining a pair bond. Kids are consciousness altering for the better even it they do poop their diapers all the time .

Loyalty is an interesting topic and thanks to CaRenter I am considering the possibility of getting kicked to the curb when the kids are out of the house in about 10 years. Never really trust anyone. Thanks CaRenter! You have spoken well for your gender.[/quote]

I must have missed something here. Why do you think you’ll be kicked to the curb in 10 years? And how did I convince you of that?

It wasn’t about me in particular but somewhere in this thread people were talking about 7 year itch and
…

And as far as kids making it easier to bond with your spouse…the fact that you say that means that you’re probably an excellent father and husband (which I’ve always assumed about you, BTW). But all too often, making babies is where the rubber meets the road; and far too many males start heading for the exit, either directly (straight abandonment) or indirectly (by becoming such a repulsive, selfish louse that he essentially forces the wife to divorce him) once the babies are born.[/quote]

It wasn’t about me in particular but somewhere in this thread people were talking about 7 year itch and 20 year ditch and you mentioned that women often choose a break-up after the kids are out of the house. Nice. The man got to be a sperm donor and then was deceived as to his worth until he was needed less. Out sucker!

As far as men becoming lousy obnoxious losers and abandoners after kids, I think you mean it becomes evident at this time that the water seeking it’s own level didn’t blend well? Why do you usually paint women and union workers as the biggest victims in life? Currently, I see at least as many seriously defective young mothers as fathers.

It makes sense that men are less relevant , or even easily seen as inadequate as Scaredy points out, after the kids get a few years on them.
More so post industrial revolution than before. 100 + years ago a wife might see a man as important in the mentoring of her children to run the farm or learn the family trade but now, Kahn academy does that important stuff….what are we good for ?[/quote]

Okay, had to re-read the thread to find that post from from May 3rd, on page 5. 😉

I didn’t say that women were the victims, either. I said that many women seek a divorce when the kids are grown because they are tired of living for other people and want to “find themselves.” That’s not making them out to be victims.

Nothing I wrote suggested that you would be irrelevant when the kids are grown. And it’s not just women who want a divorce after decades of marriage and child-rearing. Surely, you’re aware of the stereotypical divorces where men leave their first wives of many decades for a “new model.”

FWIW, men are not at all useless or irrelevant if they are good husbands and fathers. To the contrary, they are the most valuable men in the world, IMO. Most women would give everything they have to find a man who would be a good and loyal husband and father. (I certainly hope scaredy is joking with these comments about women thinking that good fathers/husbands are irrelevant!)

And while I agree that there are plenty of women who are bad spouses and parents, the vast majority of parents who abandon their families are men. My DH and my mother were both abandoned by their biological fathers, and my DH was then abandoned by his adoptive (formerly step) father, too. I’ve known so many people who were abandoned by their fathers that I can’t even count them all. In the black community, abandonment by fathers is an epidemic. I don’t know a single person who was abandoned by their mother, though I have heard two stories about “friends of friends of friends” where this has happened.[/quote]

Not joking. Good normal boring unconfirmed working dudes who are good dad’s are prime meat for the divorce courts… f

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[quote=CA renter][quote=kev374][quote=scaredyclassic]here’s the reality kev…and i hate to be harsh, but ypu need to know… women want to have children with the best possible men. the really good looking, super studly successful ones….and you’re not him. [/quote]

What the heck are you talking about. There are a line of women wanting to have kids with me..they are just not the women I want to have kids with.

Both my ex’es wanted to marry and have kids with me ASAP. I was the one who broke it off. My ex before my current ex even proposed to ME…complete turnoff but she ASKED ME to marry HER.

When I said I am not meeting women, I meant I am not meeting the women that gives me the 100% confidence to marry them and have kids, it’s always women who have a ton of baggage and not obvious baggage but the type who seem very normal on the surface but you find out only months or years later that there is some serious issue.

I don’t know what exactly you are implying, whether it is an insult to me or not. I do consider myself successful, educated, financially stable and socially presentable. In addition I have a ton of diverse interests and personal accomplishments in many of my hobbies. In term of male appeal I certainly would consider myself much higher than median.

In any case, this post was about my ex and her ridiculous baggage. When did it become about my dating appeal…LMAO!

And for the record, I know tons of women, even gorgeous attractive women, who have children with men I would consider complete trash. So please, your comment is absolutely ridiculous![/quote]

Kev, I’m reading this as one of scaredy’s tongue-in-cheek posts. He’s intelligent and witty, but he often posts things that are meant more to provoke thought than to make a point, IMHO.

Do not be offended by what he says.

I would also add that I disagree very much with what he’s saying here. Decent women will NEVER want to be treated like dirt. If a man dissociates himself from a woman and her feelings, he will either trigger a psycho response (if she really, really loves him and was convinced that he loved her, too, but is now pulling away), or she will dump his ass. The stuff scaredy is posting here is the stuff that the losers in junior high school will try. Don’t listen to scaredy on this one; just be yourself. After all, even John Travolta has had relationship problems. 😉

Having said that, do think about what you expect from a woman and compare that HONESTLY with what you’re giving them in return. If it doesn’t match up, then you need to reevaluate what you’re doing so that you can attract someone whom you feel is more your type.[/quote]

never take dating advice from a mom, especially your own mom, but also not any mom.

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[quote=zk][quote=kev374]
And she wonders why I bailed on her. Do you see how absolutely irrational this woman is? LOL![/quote]

Are you asking us, Kev? Or are you asking yourself? Because you’ve pretty much gotten our answer.

I could easily be wrong, but I wonder if your lack of connection with women on your on part of the socioeconomic ladder has anything to do with a basic insecurity on your part. Maybe you don’t feel like you deserve a woman who’s more reliable and more financially secure than the ones you’ve been dating. Like I said, I could be wrong. Something to consider.[/quote]

but this isn’t about kev. It’s about his ex. And his ex ex. And his future ex. It’s about everyone but kev. Can’t you see that? He’s totally presentable and polite and nice. That should be enough to get what he wants….

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[quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic]i would go so far as to say that the needier or more emotionally involved the man is, the more likely the woman is to seek divorce. it’s…unmanly….[/quote]

I would put needy (bad) and emotionally involved (good) in two different categories. My dad was what I would call emotionally involved long before it was normal for dads to be. He was very quiet about it and I respected him immensely. Parents were happily married for almost 60 years until he passed away in 2011.[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. Men should not fall into the vortex of women’s emotional states. Men should always be separate strong and apart. Women have friends for that.

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[quote=Blogstar]Ex-girlfriend? I guess that makes the real question; How much baggage does Kev have to work through before he can be in a healthy relationship, and especially not attract and spend several years with women who are beneath him?[/quote]

^
This

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[quote=kev374][quote=scaredyclassic]here’s the reality kev…and i hate to be harsh, but ypu need to know… women want to have children with the best possible men. the really good looking, super studly successful ones….and you’re not him. [/quote]

What the heck are you talking about. There are a line of women wanting to have kids with me..they are just not the women I want to have kids with.

Both my ex’es wanted to marry and have kids with me ASAP. I was the one who broke it off. My ex before my current ex even proposed to ME…complete turnoff but she ASKED ME to marry HER.

When I said I am not meeting women, I meant I am not meeting the women that gives me the 100% confidence to marry them and have kids, it’s always women who have a ton of baggage and not obvious baggage but the type who seem very normal on the surface but you find out only months or years later that there is some serious issue.

I don’t know what exactly you are implying, whether it is an insult to me or not. I do consider myself successful, educated, financially stable and socially presentable. In addition I have a ton of diverse interests and personal accomplishments in many of my hobbies. In term of male appeal I certainly would consider myself much higher than median.

In any case, this post was about my ex and her ridiculous baggage. When did it become about my dating appeal…LMAO!

And for the record, I know tons of women, even gorgeous attractive women, who have children with men I would consider complete trash. So please, your comment is absolutely ridiculous![/quote]

If you feel insulted then I’m probably dead on.

Your post is not about your ex.

It’s about you and your own self esteem. This is no LMAO matter. That’s how I read it. I’m not implying anything. I’m saying you need to ramp up your confidence. “Presentable”? What the fuck is that, presentable? What are you, a staged house? No. You’re a man. Fuck the median. Fuck presentable. You are fuc king awesome. Now go attract some awesome chicks, not the loser dregs youve been taking shit from, and stop moping about the catch and release women who lie and crap. Stop whining about Facebook and stop giving a shit what I or anyone thinks about you or implies.

Or dont. Maybe you’re doing everything right and you’re current unhappiness is no fault of your own. .take that route to guarantee similar results as before. Also be sure to act real butthurt about my comments. That will help solidify your victim of circumstances mentality.

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[quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic]the answer to the “baggage” question is easy;

exactly as much and no more than what kev says is fine.

anything else is noooooo
the new kev wouldnt even ask the question. it implies he is seeking approval from others. the new kev doesnt give a flying fuck what the world or girls or anyone thinks about him. because he is THE SHIT.

other people hope to meet with HIS approval[/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDB_sLdrHag%5B/quote%5D

yeah like that.

this is kevs world the rest of us are just passing thru.

all these women? Just a bunch of lonely sad little bitchesunless they are lucky enough to be favored with kevs approval.

I guarantee you’ll do better out there if you stop seeking approval and make people work for yours.

you are one sexy man, kev.

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the answer to the “baggage” question is easy;

exactly as much and no more than what kev says is fine.

anything else is noooooo
the new kev wouldnt even ask the question. it implies he is seeking approval from others. the new kev doesnt give a flying fuck what the world or girls or anyone thinks about him. because he is THE SHIT.

other people hope to meet with HIS approval

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so here’s my practical advice. forget this girl. forget girls generally for a while. let’s make kev a point, point and ahalf higher.

that means we are going to get rid of some of that belly fat, we are going to get some muscle, maybe some kinda confidence builing training. kev is going to go from a 6 toa 7.5, or whatever. i’m making assumptions here about you that could be wrong.

but the advice is the same. let’s get kev one notch higher.

you’re gonna get a better class of chicks who look better and maybe even are less nuts. you’re going to be drawing froma better portion of the pool.

this girl was crap. you can do muuuuuch better.

i wanna see kev 2.0

now get out there, get to work, get leaner and meaner, get strong, develop a fuck you attitude, be a fucking man, not a whiny little baby and i want to see a 75% more fuckable kev by 1/17/15. you can do this!

we can always tone down the “i am fucking hotshit” attitude, but it’s hard to ramp it up when you’re in current waaah mode.

getting rid of her was a blessing. a 2nd lease on life.

this aprt is gonna be fucking awesome…

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here’s the reality kev…and i hate to be harsh, but ypu need to know… women want to have children with the best possible men. the really good looking, super studly successful ones….and you’re not him. at least you’re probably not her first choice. froankly, if she were creatinga fantasy team, you wouldnt make the squad.

men are different. we will literally settle for anything….

but you’ll do for her for now. i suppose. however, afetr a few issue are born, assumng they’re yours, she will be more on her feet, and also able to get financial assistance from you while she seeks better, more dominant alpha dudes. even if she doesn’t want this intellectually, she’ll wake up bored, or suddently realize she has unmet emotional needs, or who the fuck knows which way it’ll be expressed. but you, you will be dull. stifling. absurd. a little pudgier perhaps. tired.

it’s just the harsh reality of life. statistics show that 20% of the single men are having 80% of the sex. that’s who she’d really prefer. but well, you hang around. you ahve some cash. you look like a reasonable sucker…

you neeed to emulate in every way possible what a non needy winner witha lot of options appearslike.

otherwise, yourwoman will always have you in the settler/loser pile, psychologically.

what im saying is, this is unlikely to end well.

but you probably already know that…

YMMV

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i would go so far as to say that the needier or more emotionally involved the man is, the more likely the woman is to seek divorce. it’s…unmanly….

[scaredyclassic]

a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

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