Forum Replies Created
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AuthorPosts
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Rt.66
ParticipantI disagree. GM could have gone on paying $14 an hour to new hires and $27hr (about what Toyota and Honda pay US employees) to their very long term UAW employeees forever IF, if…. the 3 unfair trade advantages mentioned above had been addressed.
I’ve read that all 3 together add up to $4-$6k per car. Can you imagine how much more development GM could put into small profit margin economy cars had it not been for the Unfair advantage that Toyota, Hyundia etc. enjoy from their Job friendly and aggressive Governments?
GMs legacy costs are not an evil, anchor of non-competetiveness we should be chastising them for. Those legacy costs are pensions and healthcare. Important things that we all should be fortunate enough to have. They are doing our country a solid. Our Gov. should recognize that and provide a fair trade counterbalance to keep those flowing.
What do they do instead? Send the jobs to China, Japan and Korea and have the tax payer pick up the bill for folks cheated and thrown into poverty?
I don’t care what it is anyone does for work I would just as eagerly defend any pension you earned.
Its f@cked up to let retired people and American jobs take it in the @ss because people in charge thinks its cool to allow foriegn countries with predatory, unfair and unjust trade policies to scam us into GD2.
ParticipantI disagree. GM could have gone on paying $14 an hour to new hires and $27hr (about what Toyota and Honda pay US employees) to their very long term UAW employeees forever IF, if…. the 3 unfair trade advantages mentioned above had been addressed.
I’ve read that all 3 together add up to $4-$6k per car. Can you imagine how much more development GM could put into small profit margin economy cars had it not been for the Unfair advantage that Toyota, Hyundia etc. enjoy from their Job friendly and aggressive Governments?
GMs legacy costs are not an evil, anchor of non-competetiveness we should be chastising them for. Those legacy costs are pensions and healthcare. Important things that we all should be fortunate enough to have. They are doing our country a solid. Our Gov. should recognize that and provide a fair trade counterbalance to keep those flowing.
What do they do instead? Send the jobs to China, Japan and Korea and have the tax payer pick up the bill for folks cheated and thrown into poverty?
I don’t care what it is anyone does for work I would just as eagerly defend any pension you earned.
Its f@cked up to let retired people and American jobs take it in the @ss because people in charge thinks its cool to allow foriegn countries with predatory, unfair and unjust trade policies to scam us into GD2.
ParticipantI disagree. GM could have gone on paying $14 an hour to new hires and $27hr (about what Toyota and Honda pay US employees) to their very long term UAW employeees forever IF, if…. the 3 unfair trade advantages mentioned above had been addressed.
I’ve read that all 3 together add up to $4-$6k per car. Can you imagine how much more development GM could put into small profit margin economy cars had it not been for the Unfair advantage that Toyota, Hyundia etc. enjoy from their Job friendly and aggressive Governments?
GMs legacy costs are not an evil, anchor of non-competetiveness we should be chastising them for. Those legacy costs are pensions and healthcare. Important things that we all should be fortunate enough to have. They are doing our country a solid. Our Gov. should recognize that and provide a fair trade counterbalance to keep those flowing.
What do they do instead? Send the jobs to China, Japan and Korea and have the tax payer pick up the bill for folks cheated and thrown into poverty?
I don’t care what it is anyone does for work I would just as eagerly defend any pension you earned.
Its f@cked up to let retired people and American jobs take it in the @ss because people in charge thinks its cool to allow foriegn countries with predatory, unfair and unjust trade policies to scam us into GD2.
ParticipantI disagree. GM could have gone on paying $14 an hour to new hires and $27hr (about what Toyota and Honda pay US employees) to their very long term UAW employeees forever IF, if…. the 3 unfair trade advantages mentioned above had been addressed.
I’ve read that all 3 together add up to $4-$6k per car. Can you imagine how much more development GM could put into small profit margin economy cars had it not been for the Unfair advantage that Toyota, Hyundia etc. enjoy from their Job friendly and aggressive Governments?
GMs legacy costs are not an evil, anchor of non-competetiveness we should be chastising them for. Those legacy costs are pensions and healthcare. Important things that we all should be fortunate enough to have. They are doing our country a solid. Our Gov. should recognize that and provide a fair trade counterbalance to keep those flowing.
What do they do instead? Send the jobs to China, Japan and Korea and have the tax payer pick up the bill for folks cheated and thrown into poverty?
I don’t care what it is anyone does for work I would just as eagerly defend any pension you earned.
Its f@cked up to let retired people and American jobs take it in the @ss because people in charge thinks its cool to allow foriegn countries with predatory, unfair and unjust trade policies to scam us into GD2.
ParticipantNice read from you Allen (as always) 🙂
Do you remember what all cars were like in the 70s and 80s? Fiats, Renaults, BMW, Toyotas, Fords everything was shitty compared to today. Lets be honest about that. Most forget that a 1977 Toyota Corolla was no gem (they remember it was cheap though). There is a reason you don’t see many cars from those vintages on the road and Japanese cars are no exception.
Allen said:
“GM became a success due to economies of scale and ultimately failed for the same reason: It lacked the agility to compete because of it’s cumbersome size and unresponsive management structure. To lay blame for this fiasco solely at the feet of competing countries is to avoid not only responsibility but the truth of why it happened and to help prevent it from happening again.If you’re going to be honest about this, be honest about this and present all of the facts, not just those that your support your end of the argument. Oh, and my family only drives American (Ford) and always has, so let me blunt your riposte before it even comes.”
————-There is no reason GM had to fail because its been serving America for 100 years. How old is Nissan/Datsun (really old)? If GM was making money 4-8 or 10 years ago or whenever, why not again?
Maybe we CAN lay blame for its demise solely at the feet of predatory trade partners? I am not saying GM was perfect, made all the right decisions or anything like that, that would be silly.
How do you know if our Gov. had demanded fair trade over the years that GM might be healthy right now?
Do you know how GM would have faired if our Gov. tarrifed cars from countries with national healthcare to an ammount equal to the unfair advantage they gain from that direct Gov. subsidy. How about currency manipulation? Nobody disputes the Asians have been doing it for decades and continue to do so.
How do we know that fair currency alone would not have put GM on a fair playing field?
How about law suit protection equal to what Asian firms enjoy?
Do you doubt that fair laws on ALL three fronts would make GM competetive? I don’t. Even the most fervant of Japanes or Korean car supporters would probably admit that the US auto industry would be in much better health today if they only enjoyed what Japan and Korea have enjoyed for decades.
Asian countries do whatever it takes to keep them good jobs at home. We do little to nothing. They’ve got the jobs and we have the worst employment numbers since GD1.
Agressive fair trade policies work to keep jobs and money flowing into a country, Asian countries have resoundly proven that.
Total lack of fair trade policies provide MASSIVE job losses (lets not candy coat or down play the number of job losses here) and huge trade deficits and lack of money to fund infrastructure, America has resoundly proven that.
With all due respect, (you are a smart cookie I know), I don’t believe facts you think “I left out” are facts as much as arguements that fail.
And please everyone no more “evil UAW” posts. There are 400-500 car parts suppliers here in SoCal hurting because of this mess. So move on from the UAW rant and look at ALL the job losses. UAW is the poster child for the “its ok to want them to die” movememt but they are a small portion of the total jobs we are losing.
ParticipantNice read from you Allen (as always) 🙂
Do you remember what all cars were like in the 70s and 80s? Fiats, Renaults, BMW, Toyotas, Fords everything was shitty compared to today. Lets be honest about that. Most forget that a 1977 Toyota Corolla was no gem (they remember it was cheap though). There is a reason you don’t see many cars from those vintages on the road and Japanese cars are no exception.
Allen said:
“GM became a success due to economies of scale and ultimately failed for the same reason: It lacked the agility to compete because of it’s cumbersome size and unresponsive management structure. To lay blame for this fiasco solely at the feet of competing countries is to avoid not only responsibility but the truth of why it happened and to help prevent it from happening again.If you’re going to be honest about this, be honest about this and present all of the facts, not just those that your support your end of the argument. Oh, and my family only drives American (Ford) and always has, so let me blunt your riposte before it even comes.”
————-There is no reason GM had to fail because its been serving America for 100 years. How old is Nissan/Datsun (really old)? If GM was making money 4-8 or 10 years ago or whenever, why not again?
Maybe we CAN lay blame for its demise solely at the feet of predatory trade partners? I am not saying GM was perfect, made all the right decisions or anything like that, that would be silly.
How do you know if our Gov. had demanded fair trade over the years that GM might be healthy right now?
Do you know how GM would have faired if our Gov. tarrifed cars from countries with national healthcare to an ammount equal to the unfair advantage they gain from that direct Gov. subsidy. How about currency manipulation? Nobody disputes the Asians have been doing it for decades and continue to do so.
How do we know that fair currency alone would not have put GM on a fair playing field?
How about law suit protection equal to what Asian firms enjoy?
Do you doubt that fair laws on ALL three fronts would make GM competetive? I don’t. Even the most fervant of Japanes or Korean car supporters would probably admit that the US auto industry would be in much better health today if they only enjoyed what Japan and Korea have enjoyed for decades.
Asian countries do whatever it takes to keep them good jobs at home. We do little to nothing. They’ve got the jobs and we have the worst employment numbers since GD1.
Agressive fair trade policies work to keep jobs and money flowing into a country, Asian countries have resoundly proven that.
Total lack of fair trade policies provide MASSIVE job losses (lets not candy coat or down play the number of job losses here) and huge trade deficits and lack of money to fund infrastructure, America has resoundly proven that.
With all due respect, (you are a smart cookie I know), I don’t believe facts you think “I left out” are facts as much as arguements that fail.
And please everyone no more “evil UAW” posts. There are 400-500 car parts suppliers here in SoCal hurting because of this mess. So move on from the UAW rant and look at ALL the job losses. UAW is the poster child for the “its ok to want them to die” movememt but they are a small portion of the total jobs we are losing.
ParticipantNice read from you Allen (as always) 🙂
Do you remember what all cars were like in the 70s and 80s? Fiats, Renaults, BMW, Toyotas, Fords everything was shitty compared to today. Lets be honest about that. Most forget that a 1977 Toyota Corolla was no gem (they remember it was cheap though). There is a reason you don’t see many cars from those vintages on the road and Japanese cars are no exception.
Allen said:
“GM became a success due to economies of scale and ultimately failed for the same reason: It lacked the agility to compete because of it’s cumbersome size and unresponsive management structure. To lay blame for this fiasco solely at the feet of competing countries is to avoid not only responsibility but the truth of why it happened and to help prevent it from happening again.If you’re going to be honest about this, be honest about this and present all of the facts, not just those that your support your end of the argument. Oh, and my family only drives American (Ford) and always has, so let me blunt your riposte before it even comes.”
————-There is no reason GM had to fail because its been serving America for 100 years. How old is Nissan/Datsun (really old)? If GM was making money 4-8 or 10 years ago or whenever, why not again?
Maybe we CAN lay blame for its demise solely at the feet of predatory trade partners? I am not saying GM was perfect, made all the right decisions or anything like that, that would be silly.
How do you know if our Gov. had demanded fair trade over the years that GM might be healthy right now?
Do you know how GM would have faired if our Gov. tarrifed cars from countries with national healthcare to an ammount equal to the unfair advantage they gain from that direct Gov. subsidy. How about currency manipulation? Nobody disputes the Asians have been doing it for decades and continue to do so.
How do we know that fair currency alone would not have put GM on a fair playing field?
How about law suit protection equal to what Asian firms enjoy?
Do you doubt that fair laws on ALL three fronts would make GM competetive? I don’t. Even the most fervant of Japanes or Korean car supporters would probably admit that the US auto industry would be in much better health today if they only enjoyed what Japan and Korea have enjoyed for decades.
Asian countries do whatever it takes to keep them good jobs at home. We do little to nothing. They’ve got the jobs and we have the worst employment numbers since GD1.
Agressive fair trade policies work to keep jobs and money flowing into a country, Asian countries have resoundly proven that.
Total lack of fair trade policies provide MASSIVE job losses (lets not candy coat or down play the number of job losses here) and huge trade deficits and lack of money to fund infrastructure, America has resoundly proven that.
With all due respect, (you are a smart cookie I know), I don’t believe facts you think “I left out” are facts as much as arguements that fail.
And please everyone no more “evil UAW” posts. There are 400-500 car parts suppliers here in SoCal hurting because of this mess. So move on from the UAW rant and look at ALL the job losses. UAW is the poster child for the “its ok to want them to die” movememt but they are a small portion of the total jobs we are losing.
ParticipantNice read from you Allen (as always) 🙂
Do you remember what all cars were like in the 70s and 80s? Fiats, Renaults, BMW, Toyotas, Fords everything was shitty compared to today. Lets be honest about that. Most forget that a 1977 Toyota Corolla was no gem (they remember it was cheap though). There is a reason you don’t see many cars from those vintages on the road and Japanese cars are no exception.
Allen said:
“GM became a success due to economies of scale and ultimately failed for the same reason: It lacked the agility to compete because of it’s cumbersome size and unresponsive management structure. To lay blame for this fiasco solely at the feet of competing countries is to avoid not only responsibility but the truth of why it happened and to help prevent it from happening again.If you’re going to be honest about this, be honest about this and present all of the facts, not just those that your support your end of the argument. Oh, and my family only drives American (Ford) and always has, so let me blunt your riposte before it even comes.”
————-There is no reason GM had to fail because its been serving America for 100 years. How old is Nissan/Datsun (really old)? If GM was making money 4-8 or 10 years ago or whenever, why not again?
Maybe we CAN lay blame for its demise solely at the feet of predatory trade partners? I am not saying GM was perfect, made all the right decisions or anything like that, that would be silly.
How do you know if our Gov. had demanded fair trade over the years that GM might be healthy right now?
Do you know how GM would have faired if our Gov. tarrifed cars from countries with national healthcare to an ammount equal to the unfair advantage they gain from that direct Gov. subsidy. How about currency manipulation? Nobody disputes the Asians have been doing it for decades and continue to do so.
How do we know that fair currency alone would not have put GM on a fair playing field?
How about law suit protection equal to what Asian firms enjoy?
Do you doubt that fair laws on ALL three fronts would make GM competetive? I don’t. Even the most fervant of Japanes or Korean car supporters would probably admit that the US auto industry would be in much better health today if they only enjoyed what Japan and Korea have enjoyed for decades.
Asian countries do whatever it takes to keep them good jobs at home. We do little to nothing. They’ve got the jobs and we have the worst employment numbers since GD1.
Agressive fair trade policies work to keep jobs and money flowing into a country, Asian countries have resoundly proven that.
Total lack of fair trade policies provide MASSIVE job losses (lets not candy coat or down play the number of job losses here) and huge trade deficits and lack of money to fund infrastructure, America has resoundly proven that.
With all due respect, (you are a smart cookie I know), I don’t believe facts you think “I left out” are facts as much as arguements that fail.
And please everyone no more “evil UAW” posts. There are 400-500 car parts suppliers here in SoCal hurting because of this mess. So move on from the UAW rant and look at ALL the job losses. UAW is the poster child for the “its ok to want them to die” movememt but they are a small portion of the total jobs we are losing.
ParticipantNice read from you Allen (as always) 🙂
Do you remember what all cars were like in the 70s and 80s? Fiats, Renaults, BMW, Toyotas, Fords everything was shitty compared to today. Lets be honest about that. Most forget that a 1977 Toyota Corolla was no gem (they remember it was cheap though). There is a reason you don’t see many cars from those vintages on the road and Japanese cars are no exception.
Allen said:
“GM became a success due to economies of scale and ultimately failed for the same reason: It lacked the agility to compete because of it’s cumbersome size and unresponsive management structure. To lay blame for this fiasco solely at the feet of competing countries is to avoid not only responsibility but the truth of why it happened and to help prevent it from happening again.If you’re going to be honest about this, be honest about this and present all of the facts, not just those that your support your end of the argument. Oh, and my family only drives American (Ford) and always has, so let me blunt your riposte before it even comes.”
————-There is no reason GM had to fail because its been serving America for 100 years. How old is Nissan/Datsun (really old)? If GM was making money 4-8 or 10 years ago or whenever, why not again?
Maybe we CAN lay blame for its demise solely at the feet of predatory trade partners? I am not saying GM was perfect, made all the right decisions or anything like that, that would be silly.
How do you know if our Gov. had demanded fair trade over the years that GM might be healthy right now?
Do you know how GM would have faired if our Gov. tarrifed cars from countries with national healthcare to an ammount equal to the unfair advantage they gain from that direct Gov. subsidy. How about currency manipulation? Nobody disputes the Asians have been doing it for decades and continue to do so.
How do we know that fair currency alone would not have put GM on a fair playing field?
How about law suit protection equal to what Asian firms enjoy?
Do you doubt that fair laws on ALL three fronts would make GM competetive? I don’t. Even the most fervant of Japanes or Korean car supporters would probably admit that the US auto industry would be in much better health today if they only enjoyed what Japan and Korea have enjoyed for decades.
Asian countries do whatever it takes to keep them good jobs at home. We do little to nothing. They’ve got the jobs and we have the worst employment numbers since GD1.
Agressive fair trade policies work to keep jobs and money flowing into a country, Asian countries have resoundly proven that.
Total lack of fair trade policies provide MASSIVE job losses (lets not candy coat or down play the number of job losses here) and huge trade deficits and lack of money to fund infrastructure, America has resoundly proven that.
With all due respect, (you are a smart cookie I know), I don’t believe facts you think “I left out” are facts as much as arguements that fail.
And please everyone no more “evil UAW” posts. There are 400-500 car parts suppliers here in SoCal hurting because of this mess. So move on from the UAW rant and look at ALL the job losses. UAW is the poster child for the “its ok to want them to die” movememt but they are a small portion of the total jobs we are losing.
ParticipantOK lets set things straight on sanctions and trade. Anytime you bring this up people jump to the far side of the argument and say stuff like ”protectionism only makes matters worse”, etc.
Like any issue there is a logical way to go about it and there is hyperbole. Yes, too much protectionism is bad, but…..would you agree that too little is bad as well? Protectionism as in “protecting your jobs”.
It’s about FAIR trade. We have been giving our jobs to counties that practice outright protectionism for decades. Why? Japan has ALWAYS carefully balanced its trade to “protect” its manufacturing base. Japan has been one of the richest countries in the world with good jobs, low unemployment and high wages all without even the tiniest natural resource.
How do they do it? They keep trade fair (or rather, tilted to be way more fair for Japan and its workers). Why can’t we do that?
Not practicing an aggressive trade balance policy is asking/begging the rest of the world to play fair. Not gonna happen, ever.
And you can’t ask Americans to do it themselves because most will gladly send their money and US jobs to Korea if they think it will save them a few bucks.
The excuses for why you bought a Hyundai are so boring. We all know why you bought one, no need to try and convince us that you somehow had no other logical choice. Just admit that you thought you could gain a small personal advantage (at the expense of your country and fellow worker).
Hyundias don’t have that crazy long warranty because they are better than other makes, of course not. They have it because they are buying market share. They can afford to make much less on a car than GM because they:
1) Have full backing of their Gov. to go out and gain world market share.
2) Can manilpulate thier currency to make it “look” like they are making a bit of a profit and avoid dumping repercutions:
http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/05/13/currency-reform-bill-could-help-create-new-jobs/#more-13953
Currency manipulation is a major contributor to the U.S. trade deficit. Our Japanese, Korean, Chinese and other Asian trade partners have resisted freely-floating currency values, which has made their exports more competitive vis-Ă -vis U.S. products. This has contributed to these Asian nations being respon-sible for almost half of the U.S.trade deficit. http://www.autotradecouncil.org/Upload/ATPC%20CURRENCY%20FINAL.pdf
3) Pay their workers $5 or whatever a day in Korea (where most US hyundais are built).
4) Don’t have the horrible disease GM suffers from called “legacy costs” consisting of providing tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Americans with good pensions and healthcare (oh God the horror!).
Now put yourself in the shoes of Legacy Cost people as Japan and Korea get the final pay-off in their automotive trade war with US jobs. An engineer in Ohio who worked 35 years for his pension gets a letter saying the courts nullified his life’s work. Another is a retired 30 year Tool and Die maker who never sat foot in a UAW meeting loses his pension in a parts supplier Bankruptcy. ETC…..
Sure you saved a few bucks buying that Korean Elantra (built solely in Korea), sending $20k dollars to Korea to stimulate and educate their society, repair their roads, etc. but in the long run it will cost you much more than what you saved.
You will pay for the failed pensions and healthcare benefitsn thru higher taxes. Who did you think was going to pay, the Gov.? All jobs will suffer some form of wage deflation as hundreds of thousands get thrown onto the job market, so even though you may not see it, you will be paid less in the future because of what is happening right now. IF….if, you still have a job.
Sure we can’t go back in time and save the US home electronics industry or textile industry, but we might have another shot at saving the US auto industry WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.
ParticipantOK lets set things straight on sanctions and trade. Anytime you bring this up people jump to the far side of the argument and say stuff like ”protectionism only makes matters worse”, etc.
Like any issue there is a logical way to go about it and there is hyperbole. Yes, too much protectionism is bad, but…..would you agree that too little is bad as well? Protectionism as in “protecting your jobs”.
It’s about FAIR trade. We have been giving our jobs to counties that practice outright protectionism for decades. Why? Japan has ALWAYS carefully balanced its trade to “protect” its manufacturing base. Japan has been one of the richest countries in the world with good jobs, low unemployment and high wages all without even the tiniest natural resource.
How do they do it? They keep trade fair (or rather, tilted to be way more fair for Japan and its workers). Why can’t we do that?
Not practicing an aggressive trade balance policy is asking/begging the rest of the world to play fair. Not gonna happen, ever.
And you can’t ask Americans to do it themselves because most will gladly send their money and US jobs to Korea if they think it will save them a few bucks.
The excuses for why you bought a Hyundai are so boring. We all know why you bought one, no need to try and convince us that you somehow had no other logical choice. Just admit that you thought you could gain a small personal advantage (at the expense of your country and fellow worker).
Hyundias don’t have that crazy long warranty because they are better than other makes, of course not. They have it because they are buying market share. They can afford to make much less on a car than GM because they:
1) Have full backing of their Gov. to go out and gain world market share.
2) Can manilpulate thier currency to make it “look” like they are making a bit of a profit and avoid dumping repercutions:
http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/05/13/currency-reform-bill-could-help-create-new-jobs/#more-13953
Currency manipulation is a major contributor to the U.S. trade deficit. Our Japanese, Korean, Chinese and other Asian trade partners have resisted freely-floating currency values, which has made their exports more competitive vis-Ă -vis U.S. products. This has contributed to these Asian nations being respon-sible for almost half of the U.S.trade deficit. http://www.autotradecouncil.org/Upload/ATPC%20CURRENCY%20FINAL.pdf
3) Pay their workers $5 or whatever a day in Korea (where most US hyundais are built).
4) Don’t have the horrible disease GM suffers from called “legacy costs” consisting of providing tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Americans with good pensions and healthcare (oh God the horror!).
Now put yourself in the shoes of Legacy Cost people as Japan and Korea get the final pay-off in their automotive trade war with US jobs. An engineer in Ohio who worked 35 years for his pension gets a letter saying the courts nullified his life’s work. Another is a retired 30 year Tool and Die maker who never sat foot in a UAW meeting loses his pension in a parts supplier Bankruptcy. ETC…..
Sure you saved a few bucks buying that Korean Elantra (built solely in Korea), sending $20k dollars to Korea to stimulate and educate their society, repair their roads, etc. but in the long run it will cost you much more than what you saved.
You will pay for the failed pensions and healthcare benefitsn thru higher taxes. Who did you think was going to pay, the Gov.? All jobs will suffer some form of wage deflation as hundreds of thousands get thrown onto the job market, so even though you may not see it, you will be paid less in the future because of what is happening right now. IF….if, you still have a job.
Sure we can’t go back in time and save the US home electronics industry or textile industry, but we might have another shot at saving the US auto industry WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.
ParticipantOK lets set things straight on sanctions and trade. Anytime you bring this up people jump to the far side of the argument and say stuff like ”protectionism only makes matters worse”, etc.
Like any issue there is a logical way to go about it and there is hyperbole. Yes, too much protectionism is bad, but…..would you agree that too little is bad as well? Protectionism as in “protecting your jobs”.
It’s about FAIR trade. We have been giving our jobs to counties that practice outright protectionism for decades. Why? Japan has ALWAYS carefully balanced its trade to “protect” its manufacturing base. Japan has been one of the richest countries in the world with good jobs, low unemployment and high wages all without even the tiniest natural resource.
How do they do it? They keep trade fair (or rather, tilted to be way more fair for Japan and its workers). Why can’t we do that?
Not practicing an aggressive trade balance policy is asking/begging the rest of the world to play fair. Not gonna happen, ever.
And you can’t ask Americans to do it themselves because most will gladly send their money and US jobs to Korea if they think it will save them a few bucks.
The excuses for why you bought a Hyundai are so boring. We all know why you bought one, no need to try and convince us that you somehow had no other logical choice. Just admit that you thought you could gain a small personal advantage (at the expense of your country and fellow worker).
Hyundias don’t have that crazy long warranty because they are better than other makes, of course not. They have it because they are buying market share. They can afford to make much less on a car than GM because they:
1) Have full backing of their Gov. to go out and gain world market share.
2) Can manilpulate thier currency to make it “look” like they are making a bit of a profit and avoid dumping repercutions:
http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/05/13/currency-reform-bill-could-help-create-new-jobs/#more-13953
Currency manipulation is a major contributor to the U.S. trade deficit. Our Japanese, Korean, Chinese and other Asian trade partners have resisted freely-floating currency values, which has made their exports more competitive vis-Ă -vis U.S. products. This has contributed to these Asian nations being respon-sible for almost half of the U.S.trade deficit. http://www.autotradecouncil.org/Upload/ATPC%20CURRENCY%20FINAL.pdf
3) Pay their workers $5 or whatever a day in Korea (where most US hyundais are built).
4) Don’t have the horrible disease GM suffers from called “legacy costs” consisting of providing tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Americans with good pensions and healthcare (oh God the horror!).
Now put yourself in the shoes of Legacy Cost people as Japan and Korea get the final pay-off in their automotive trade war with US jobs. An engineer in Ohio who worked 35 years for his pension gets a letter saying the courts nullified his life’s work. Another is a retired 30 year Tool and Die maker who never sat foot in a UAW meeting loses his pension in a parts supplier Bankruptcy. ETC…..
Sure you saved a few bucks buying that Korean Elantra (built solely in Korea), sending $20k dollars to Korea to stimulate and educate their society, repair their roads, etc. but in the long run it will cost you much more than what you saved.
You will pay for the failed pensions and healthcare benefitsn thru higher taxes. Who did you think was going to pay, the Gov.? All jobs will suffer some form of wage deflation as hundreds of thousands get thrown onto the job market, so even though you may not see it, you will be paid less in the future because of what is happening right now. IF….if, you still have a job.
Sure we can’t go back in time and save the US home electronics industry or textile industry, but we might have another shot at saving the US auto industry WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.
ParticipantOK lets set things straight on sanctions and trade. Anytime you bring this up people jump to the far side of the argument and say stuff like ”protectionism only makes matters worse”, etc.
Like any issue there is a logical way to go about it and there is hyperbole. Yes, too much protectionism is bad, but…..would you agree that too little is bad as well? Protectionism as in “protecting your jobs”.
It’s about FAIR trade. We have been giving our jobs to counties that practice outright protectionism for decades. Why? Japan has ALWAYS carefully balanced its trade to “protect” its manufacturing base. Japan has been one of the richest countries in the world with good jobs, low unemployment and high wages all without even the tiniest natural resource.
How do they do it? They keep trade fair (or rather, tilted to be way more fair for Japan and its workers). Why can’t we do that?
Not practicing an aggressive trade balance policy is asking/begging the rest of the world to play fair. Not gonna happen, ever.
And you can’t ask Americans to do it themselves because most will gladly send their money and US jobs to Korea if they think it will save them a few bucks.
The excuses for why you bought a Hyundai are so boring. We all know why you bought one, no need to try and convince us that you somehow had no other logical choice. Just admit that you thought you could gain a small personal advantage (at the expense of your country and fellow worker).
Hyundias don’t have that crazy long warranty because they are better than other makes, of course not. They have it because they are buying market share. They can afford to make much less on a car than GM because they:
1) Have full backing of their Gov. to go out and gain world market share.
2) Can manilpulate thier currency to make it “look” like they are making a bit of a profit and avoid dumping repercutions:
http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/05/13/currency-reform-bill-could-help-create-new-jobs/#more-13953
Currency manipulation is a major contributor to the U.S. trade deficit. Our Japanese, Korean, Chinese and other Asian trade partners have resisted freely-floating currency values, which has made their exports more competitive vis-Ă -vis U.S. products. This has contributed to these Asian nations being respon-sible for almost half of the U.S.trade deficit. http://www.autotradecouncil.org/Upload/ATPC%20CURRENCY%20FINAL.pdf
3) Pay their workers $5 or whatever a day in Korea (where most US hyundais are built).
4) Don’t have the horrible disease GM suffers from called “legacy costs” consisting of providing tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Americans with good pensions and healthcare (oh God the horror!).
Now put yourself in the shoes of Legacy Cost people as Japan and Korea get the final pay-off in their automotive trade war with US jobs. An engineer in Ohio who worked 35 years for his pension gets a letter saying the courts nullified his life’s work. Another is a retired 30 year Tool and Die maker who never sat foot in a UAW meeting loses his pension in a parts supplier Bankruptcy. ETC…..
Sure you saved a few bucks buying that Korean Elantra (built solely in Korea), sending $20k dollars to Korea to stimulate and educate their society, repair their roads, etc. but in the long run it will cost you much more than what you saved.
You will pay for the failed pensions and healthcare benefitsn thru higher taxes. Who did you think was going to pay, the Gov.? All jobs will suffer some form of wage deflation as hundreds of thousands get thrown onto the job market, so even though you may not see it, you will be paid less in the future because of what is happening right now. IF….if, you still have a job.
Sure we can’t go back in time and save the US home electronics industry or textile industry, but we might have another shot at saving the US auto industry WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.
ParticipantOK lets set things straight on sanctions and trade. Anytime you bring this up people jump to the far side of the argument and say stuff like ”protectionism only makes matters worse”, etc.
Like any issue there is a logical way to go about it and there is hyperbole. Yes, too much protectionism is bad, but…..would you agree that too little is bad as well? Protectionism as in “protecting your jobs”.
It’s about FAIR trade. We have been giving our jobs to counties that practice outright protectionism for decades. Why? Japan has ALWAYS carefully balanced its trade to “protect” its manufacturing base. Japan has been one of the richest countries in the world with good jobs, low unemployment and high wages all without even the tiniest natural resource.
How do they do it? They keep trade fair (or rather, tilted to be way more fair for Japan and its workers). Why can’t we do that?
Not practicing an aggressive trade balance policy is asking/begging the rest of the world to play fair. Not gonna happen, ever.
And you can’t ask Americans to do it themselves because most will gladly send their money and US jobs to Korea if they think it will save them a few bucks.
The excuses for why you bought a Hyundai are so boring. We all know why you bought one, no need to try and convince us that you somehow had no other logical choice. Just admit that you thought you could gain a small personal advantage (at the expense of your country and fellow worker).
Hyundias don’t have that crazy long warranty because they are better than other makes, of course not. They have it because they are buying market share. They can afford to make much less on a car than GM because they:
1) Have full backing of their Gov. to go out and gain world market share.
2) Can manilpulate thier currency to make it “look” like they are making a bit of a profit and avoid dumping repercutions:
http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/05/13/currency-reform-bill-could-help-create-new-jobs/#more-13953
Currency manipulation is a major contributor to the U.S. trade deficit. Our Japanese, Korean, Chinese and other Asian trade partners have resisted freely-floating currency values, which has made their exports more competitive vis-Ă -vis U.S. products. This has contributed to these Asian nations being respon-sible for almost half of the U.S.trade deficit. http://www.autotradecouncil.org/Upload/ATPC%20CURRENCY%20FINAL.pdf
3) Pay their workers $5 or whatever a day in Korea (where most US hyundais are built).
4) Don’t have the horrible disease GM suffers from called “legacy costs” consisting of providing tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Americans with good pensions and healthcare (oh God the horror!).
Now put yourself in the shoes of Legacy Cost people as Japan and Korea get the final pay-off in their automotive trade war with US jobs. An engineer in Ohio who worked 35 years for his pension gets a letter saying the courts nullified his life’s work. Another is a retired 30 year Tool and Die maker who never sat foot in a UAW meeting loses his pension in a parts supplier Bankruptcy. ETC…..
Sure you saved a few bucks buying that Korean Elantra (built solely in Korea), sending $20k dollars to Korea to stimulate and educate their society, repair their roads, etc. but in the long run it will cost you much more than what you saved.
You will pay for the failed pensions and healthcare benefitsn thru higher taxes. Who did you think was going to pay, the Gov.? All jobs will suffer some form of wage deflation as hundreds of thousands get thrown onto the job market, so even though you may not see it, you will be paid less in the future because of what is happening right now. IF….if, you still have a job.
Sure we can’t go back in time and save the US home electronics industry or textile industry, but we might have another shot at saving the US auto industry WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.
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