Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
Rt.66
ParticipantGN you might want to edit your thread so you are not accused of perpetuating a lie. Junior lien holders do have the right to foreclose, that’s why they are called lien holders. The trouble is they have to pay off the first if they foreclose. Near as I can tell this rumor was started on the “The Ongoing Case-Shiller Fallacy/Shadow Inventory” thread by SDRealtor.
That story of people escaping their seconds and living happily ever after is total fabrication, pure bunk. What a surprise the realtor made up a fictitious mass occurrence to paint a rosy picture for RE and downplay the foreclosure disaster.
Go ahead and search all you want, I could not find one story of a second actually extinguishing debt. You will find that there is automatic reworks for seconds when a first is in modification, but ignoring seconds and having them go away is a fallacy and I surely hope no one listened to the realtor and decided to ignore their second, hoping it would just go away.
The second is not going away. Why would they do that when they have nothing to lose by just waiting for you to try and sell or wait until you pay down your home to the point it makes sense for THEM to foreclose, or heck just wait 30 years for the market to come back up and then throw you out.
SO the seconds have a choice, accept nothing or the Gov’s .06 cents on the dollar, or wait to get paid. The HAMP workouts are a total flop in CA because the mortgages are just too far underwater. No matter the rework terms the loan balance stays and even grows, including the second.
Ignore the second and the fees and penalties will just keep racking up. Or….If you were a lender and thought you were going to get screwed out of your money would you do everything you could to make it hard on the defaulter? Of course. If the second is looking at losing their money you can bet you will lose something too. Banks would rather lose a higher amount and maintain the order of punishment for delinquency than take a smaller loss and let you come out smelling like a rose.
This issue of seconds is not going to prevent an appreciable number of foreclosures but it may delay some a bit, ultimately it still adds to the underwater burden that factors into people walking in droves, which is exactly what they are doing.
Then there is the subject of your credit rating. Stop paying a second and it will get reported and the bank hopes one day you’ll need a loan from a brethren and have to come crawling back to make a deal on the bad debt.
No free lunch.
ParticipantGN you might want to edit your thread so you are not accused of perpetuating a lie. Junior lien holders do have the right to foreclose, that’s why they are called lien holders. The trouble is they have to pay off the first if they foreclose. Near as I can tell this rumor was started on the “The Ongoing Case-Shiller Fallacy/Shadow Inventory” thread by SDRealtor.
That story of people escaping their seconds and living happily ever after is total fabrication, pure bunk. What a surprise the realtor made up a fictitious mass occurrence to paint a rosy picture for RE and downplay the foreclosure disaster.
Go ahead and search all you want, I could not find one story of a second actually extinguishing debt. You will find that there is automatic reworks for seconds when a first is in modification, but ignoring seconds and having them go away is a fallacy and I surely hope no one listened to the realtor and decided to ignore their second, hoping it would just go away.
The second is not going away. Why would they do that when they have nothing to lose by just waiting for you to try and sell or wait until you pay down your home to the point it makes sense for THEM to foreclose, or heck just wait 30 years for the market to come back up and then throw you out.
SO the seconds have a choice, accept nothing or the Gov’s .06 cents on the dollar, or wait to get paid. The HAMP workouts are a total flop in CA because the mortgages are just too far underwater. No matter the rework terms the loan balance stays and even grows, including the second.
Ignore the second and the fees and penalties will just keep racking up. Or….If you were a lender and thought you were going to get screwed out of your money would you do everything you could to make it hard on the defaulter? Of course. If the second is looking at losing their money you can bet you will lose something too. Banks would rather lose a higher amount and maintain the order of punishment for delinquency than take a smaller loss and let you come out smelling like a rose.
This issue of seconds is not going to prevent an appreciable number of foreclosures but it may delay some a bit, ultimately it still adds to the underwater burden that factors into people walking in droves, which is exactly what they are doing.
Then there is the subject of your credit rating. Stop paying a second and it will get reported and the bank hopes one day you’ll need a loan from a brethren and have to come crawling back to make a deal on the bad debt.
No free lunch.
ParticipantGN you might want to edit your thread so you are not accused of perpetuating a lie. Junior lien holders do have the right to foreclose, that’s why they are called lien holders. The trouble is they have to pay off the first if they foreclose. Near as I can tell this rumor was started on the “The Ongoing Case-Shiller Fallacy/Shadow Inventory” thread by SDRealtor.
That story of people escaping their seconds and living happily ever after is total fabrication, pure bunk. What a surprise the realtor made up a fictitious mass occurrence to paint a rosy picture for RE and downplay the foreclosure disaster.
Go ahead and search all you want, I could not find one story of a second actually extinguishing debt. You will find that there is automatic reworks for seconds when a first is in modification, but ignoring seconds and having them go away is a fallacy and I surely hope no one listened to the realtor and decided to ignore their second, hoping it would just go away.
The second is not going away. Why would they do that when they have nothing to lose by just waiting for you to try and sell or wait until you pay down your home to the point it makes sense for THEM to foreclose, or heck just wait 30 years for the market to come back up and then throw you out.
SO the seconds have a choice, accept nothing or the Gov’s .06 cents on the dollar, or wait to get paid. The HAMP workouts are a total flop in CA because the mortgages are just too far underwater. No matter the rework terms the loan balance stays and even grows, including the second.
Ignore the second and the fees and penalties will just keep racking up. Or….If you were a lender and thought you were going to get screwed out of your money would you do everything you could to make it hard on the defaulter? Of course. If the second is looking at losing their money you can bet you will lose something too. Banks would rather lose a higher amount and maintain the order of punishment for delinquency than take a smaller loss and let you come out smelling like a rose.
This issue of seconds is not going to prevent an appreciable number of foreclosures but it may delay some a bit, ultimately it still adds to the underwater burden that factors into people walking in droves, which is exactly what they are doing.
Then there is the subject of your credit rating. Stop paying a second and it will get reported and the bank hopes one day you’ll need a loan from a brethren and have to come crawling back to make a deal on the bad debt.
No free lunch.
ParticipantGN you might want to edit your thread so you are not accused of perpetuating a lie. Junior lien holders do have the right to foreclose, that’s why they are called lien holders. The trouble is they have to pay off the first if they foreclose. Near as I can tell this rumor was started on the “The Ongoing Case-Shiller Fallacy/Shadow Inventory” thread by SDRealtor.
That story of people escaping their seconds and living happily ever after is total fabrication, pure bunk. What a surprise the realtor made up a fictitious mass occurrence to paint a rosy picture for RE and downplay the foreclosure disaster.
Go ahead and search all you want, I could not find one story of a second actually extinguishing debt. You will find that there is automatic reworks for seconds when a first is in modification, but ignoring seconds and having them go away is a fallacy and I surely hope no one listened to the realtor and decided to ignore their second, hoping it would just go away.
The second is not going away. Why would they do that when they have nothing to lose by just waiting for you to try and sell or wait until you pay down your home to the point it makes sense for THEM to foreclose, or heck just wait 30 years for the market to come back up and then throw you out.
SO the seconds have a choice, accept nothing or the Gov’s .06 cents on the dollar, or wait to get paid. The HAMP workouts are a total flop in CA because the mortgages are just too far underwater. No matter the rework terms the loan balance stays and even grows, including the second.
Ignore the second and the fees and penalties will just keep racking up. Or….If you were a lender and thought you were going to get screwed out of your money would you do everything you could to make it hard on the defaulter? Of course. If the second is looking at losing their money you can bet you will lose something too. Banks would rather lose a higher amount and maintain the order of punishment for delinquency than take a smaller loss and let you come out smelling like a rose.
This issue of seconds is not going to prevent an appreciable number of foreclosures but it may delay some a bit, ultimately it still adds to the underwater burden that factors into people walking in droves, which is exactly what they are doing.
Then there is the subject of your credit rating. Stop paying a second and it will get reported and the bank hopes one day you’ll need a loan from a brethren and have to come crawling back to make a deal on the bad debt.
No free lunch.
Participant[quote=sdrealtor]All are not bad for RE values. Limited supply creates stability and or upward pressure. We have limited supply. The shadow inventory is actually a fraction of what the most bearish (like yourself) beleive. The short sale epidemic is not growing but is rather becoming more orderly and predictable. The looming Option ARM issue is a complete unknown and will likely be addressed in some shape or form (forbearances, loan mods etc.). The worst has come and gone already. [/quote]
[quote=sdrealtor]“ absolutely beleive there is a 2nd leg down coming. I expect my house to decline 15 to 20% from where it is now.” [/quote]
From the other thread today…….
[quote=sdrealtor]“ NLSG,
I agree with your premise. I think it will be on a smaller scale and spread out over a few years. I have always beleived the next leg down will be 2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines. I dont see 50% declines around me at least on a large scale. [/quote]2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines equals 10% to 30%. So by your estimations your $550k sale may be now looking at a $165k loss instead of $110k? You do know this is real money to the people you sell houses to?
Just trying to keep up with the flips and flops. LOL
Beleive??? You should have taken at least one spelling course along your lauded educational history.
I never said I only have a HS diploma education. I do not need to make pathetic qualifications to support my points.
Participant[quote=sdrealtor]All are not bad for RE values. Limited supply creates stability and or upward pressure. We have limited supply. The shadow inventory is actually a fraction of what the most bearish (like yourself) beleive. The short sale epidemic is not growing but is rather becoming more orderly and predictable. The looming Option ARM issue is a complete unknown and will likely be addressed in some shape or form (forbearances, loan mods etc.). The worst has come and gone already. [/quote]
[quote=sdrealtor]“ absolutely beleive there is a 2nd leg down coming. I expect my house to decline 15 to 20% from where it is now.” [/quote]
From the other thread today…….
[quote=sdrealtor]“ NLSG,
I agree with your premise. I think it will be on a smaller scale and spread out over a few years. I have always beleived the next leg down will be 2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines. I dont see 50% declines around me at least on a large scale. [/quote]2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines equals 10% to 30%. So by your estimations your $550k sale may be now looking at a $165k loss instead of $110k? You do know this is real money to the people you sell houses to?
Just trying to keep up with the flips and flops. LOL
Beleive??? You should have taken at least one spelling course along your lauded educational history.
I never said I only have a HS diploma education. I do not need to make pathetic qualifications to support my points.
Participant[quote=sdrealtor]All are not bad for RE values. Limited supply creates stability and or upward pressure. We have limited supply. The shadow inventory is actually a fraction of what the most bearish (like yourself) beleive. The short sale epidemic is not growing but is rather becoming more orderly and predictable. The looming Option ARM issue is a complete unknown and will likely be addressed in some shape or form (forbearances, loan mods etc.). The worst has come and gone already. [/quote]
[quote=sdrealtor]“ absolutely beleive there is a 2nd leg down coming. I expect my house to decline 15 to 20% from where it is now.” [/quote]
From the other thread today…….
[quote=sdrealtor]“ NLSG,
I agree with your premise. I think it will be on a smaller scale and spread out over a few years. I have always beleived the next leg down will be 2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines. I dont see 50% declines around me at least on a large scale. [/quote]2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines equals 10% to 30%. So by your estimations your $550k sale may be now looking at a $165k loss instead of $110k? You do know this is real money to the people you sell houses to?
Just trying to keep up with the flips and flops. LOL
Beleive??? You should have taken at least one spelling course along your lauded educational history.
I never said I only have a HS diploma education. I do not need to make pathetic qualifications to support my points.
Participant[quote=sdrealtor]All are not bad for RE values. Limited supply creates stability and or upward pressure. We have limited supply. The shadow inventory is actually a fraction of what the most bearish (like yourself) beleive. The short sale epidemic is not growing but is rather becoming more orderly and predictable. The looming Option ARM issue is a complete unknown and will likely be addressed in some shape or form (forbearances, loan mods etc.). The worst has come and gone already. [/quote]
[quote=sdrealtor]“ absolutely beleive there is a 2nd leg down coming. I expect my house to decline 15 to 20% from where it is now.” [/quote]
From the other thread today…….
[quote=sdrealtor]“ NLSG,
I agree with your premise. I think it will be on a smaller scale and spread out over a few years. I have always beleived the next leg down will be 2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines. I dont see 50% declines around me at least on a large scale. [/quote]2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines equals 10% to 30%. So by your estimations your $550k sale may be now looking at a $165k loss instead of $110k? You do know this is real money to the people you sell houses to?
Just trying to keep up with the flips and flops. LOL
Beleive??? You should have taken at least one spelling course along your lauded educational history.
I never said I only have a HS diploma education. I do not need to make pathetic qualifications to support my points.
Participant[quote=sdrealtor]All are not bad for RE values. Limited supply creates stability and or upward pressure. We have limited supply. The shadow inventory is actually a fraction of what the most bearish (like yourself) beleive. The short sale epidemic is not growing but is rather becoming more orderly and predictable. The looming Option ARM issue is a complete unknown and will likely be addressed in some shape or form (forbearances, loan mods etc.). The worst has come and gone already. [/quote]
[quote=sdrealtor]“ absolutely beleive there is a 2nd leg down coming. I expect my house to decline 15 to 20% from where it is now.” [/quote]
From the other thread today…….
[quote=sdrealtor]“ NLSG,
I agree with your premise. I think it will be on a smaller scale and spread out over a few years. I have always beleived the next leg down will be 2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines. I dont see 50% declines around me at least on a large scale. [/quote]2 to 3 years of 5 to 10% declines equals 10% to 30%. So by your estimations your $550k sale may be now looking at a $165k loss instead of $110k? You do know this is real money to the people you sell houses to?
Just trying to keep up with the flips and flops. LOL
Beleive??? You should have taken at least one spelling course along your lauded educational history.
I never said I only have a HS diploma education. I do not need to make pathetic qualifications to support my points.
Participant[quote]1. The pre-foreclosure data looks much worse than it actually is. That’s because this data includes defaults on second mortgages. Many people intentionally defaulted on the 2nd mortgages only, knowing that the junior lien holders don’t have the legal right to kick them out. At the same time, these same people negotiate with the primary mortgage lender to lower their mortgage payments. So, a significant percentage of the properties that are in default will not end up as REOs.
[/quote]Please document this phenomenon. I study RE a lot and the first I heard of this was from the Realtor on the other thread. Sorry that does not make it postable fact.
So banks have turned on each other? Traditionally banks defend each other’s right to collect to the end. The reason we have credit reporting agencies is so a bank you want a loan from can find out if you’ve screwed one of the brethren.
It’s that simple huh? Just stop paying the second, get a loan mod from the first and lifes peachy? Wow. Does the bank holding the first consider that the property is still encumbered by the second while they are negotiating this killer new low mod payment or does the second just hang their head and walk away?
Not saying it’s not happening but I’d like to see some proof it’s a regular occurrence. Sounds whack.
Participant[quote]1. The pre-foreclosure data looks much worse than it actually is. That’s because this data includes defaults on second mortgages. Many people intentionally defaulted on the 2nd mortgages only, knowing that the junior lien holders don’t have the legal right to kick them out. At the same time, these same people negotiate with the primary mortgage lender to lower their mortgage payments. So, a significant percentage of the properties that are in default will not end up as REOs.
[/quote]Please document this phenomenon. I study RE a lot and the first I heard of this was from the Realtor on the other thread. Sorry that does not make it postable fact.
So banks have turned on each other? Traditionally banks defend each other’s right to collect to the end. The reason we have credit reporting agencies is so a bank you want a loan from can find out if you’ve screwed one of the brethren.
It’s that simple huh? Just stop paying the second, get a loan mod from the first and lifes peachy? Wow. Does the bank holding the first consider that the property is still encumbered by the second while they are negotiating this killer new low mod payment or does the second just hang their head and walk away?
Not saying it’s not happening but I’d like to see some proof it’s a regular occurrence. Sounds whack.
Participant[quote]1. The pre-foreclosure data looks much worse than it actually is. That’s because this data includes defaults on second mortgages. Many people intentionally defaulted on the 2nd mortgages only, knowing that the junior lien holders don’t have the legal right to kick them out. At the same time, these same people negotiate with the primary mortgage lender to lower their mortgage payments. So, a significant percentage of the properties that are in default will not end up as REOs.
[/quote]Please document this phenomenon. I study RE a lot and the first I heard of this was from the Realtor on the other thread. Sorry that does not make it postable fact.
So banks have turned on each other? Traditionally banks defend each other’s right to collect to the end. The reason we have credit reporting agencies is so a bank you want a loan from can find out if you’ve screwed one of the brethren.
It’s that simple huh? Just stop paying the second, get a loan mod from the first and lifes peachy? Wow. Does the bank holding the first consider that the property is still encumbered by the second while they are negotiating this killer new low mod payment or does the second just hang their head and walk away?
Not saying it’s not happening but I’d like to see some proof it’s a regular occurrence. Sounds whack.
Participant[quote]1. The pre-foreclosure data looks much worse than it actually is. That’s because this data includes defaults on second mortgages. Many people intentionally defaulted on the 2nd mortgages only, knowing that the junior lien holders don’t have the legal right to kick them out. At the same time, these same people negotiate with the primary mortgage lender to lower their mortgage payments. So, a significant percentage of the properties that are in default will not end up as REOs.
[/quote]Please document this phenomenon. I study RE a lot and the first I heard of this was from the Realtor on the other thread. Sorry that does not make it postable fact.
So banks have turned on each other? Traditionally banks defend each other’s right to collect to the end. The reason we have credit reporting agencies is so a bank you want a loan from can find out if you’ve screwed one of the brethren.
It’s that simple huh? Just stop paying the second, get a loan mod from the first and lifes peachy? Wow. Does the bank holding the first consider that the property is still encumbered by the second while they are negotiating this killer new low mod payment or does the second just hang their head and walk away?
Not saying it’s not happening but I’d like to see some proof it’s a regular occurrence. Sounds whack.
Participant[quote]1. The pre-foreclosure data looks much worse than it actually is. That’s because this data includes defaults on second mortgages. Many people intentionally defaulted on the 2nd mortgages only, knowing that the junior lien holders don’t have the legal right to kick them out. At the same time, these same people negotiate with the primary mortgage lender to lower their mortgage payments. So, a significant percentage of the properties that are in default will not end up as REOs.
[/quote]Please document this phenomenon. I study RE a lot and the first I heard of this was from the Realtor on the other thread. Sorry that does not make it postable fact.
So banks have turned on each other? Traditionally banks defend each other’s right to collect to the end. The reason we have credit reporting agencies is so a bank you want a loan from can find out if you’ve screwed one of the brethren.
It’s that simple huh? Just stop paying the second, get a loan mod from the first and lifes peachy? Wow. Does the bank holding the first consider that the property is still encumbered by the second while they are negotiating this killer new low mod payment or does the second just hang their head and walk away?
Not saying it’s not happening but I’d like to see some proof it’s a regular occurrence. Sounds whack.
-
AuthorPosts
