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KSMountain
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=NeetaT]”Specifically, individuals with annual incomes more than $500,000 — as well as families earning more than $1 million — would face a 5.4 percent income tax surcharge.”
I can now commiserate with people who try to hide income. Let’s punish initiative. This is truly socialism in its most profound form.[/quote]
You say they have “initiative.”
I say they have “the right connections.”
Just look at who makes the most money: executives and people in the financial industry. These are industries/positions where connections mean much more than intelligence and productive capability. Wealth and hard work/productivity are not directly correlated, IMHO.[/quote]
Well, let’s see CA Renter. I was just hearing something like 800 cops in LA made over 200k last year with OT. With a working spouse it would be pretty easy to go over the limit in one of the bills that is 250k. Those OT working cops are not fat cats milking their connections…
Participant[quote=SK in CV]And no, the public option would not satisfy my socialism definition. No goods or services would be manufactured or distributed by the government.[/quote]
Really? No services distributed? Who would pay the doctors? Who would set their salaries? Who would pay for the medical care? What would your medical card say? Those would all be *services* provided by the government. Like the VA, only bigger.If I go in and get a knee replacement, isn’t that a “good distributed by the government”?
Hasn’t there also been talk of setting the prices for medications? Doesn’t that become control over “production” because the prices are not market-driven?
Under the public option the government would make huge purchases of medicines, equipment, etc. At some point say a few years from now, might some wise guy congressman (or president) say “Damn those fat cat pharma companies, let’s just make the drugs ourselves”?
Participant[quote=SK in CV]And no, the public option would not satisfy my socialism definition. No goods or services would be manufactured or distributed by the government.[/quote]
Really? No services distributed? Who would pay the doctors? Who would set their salaries? Who would pay for the medical care? What would your medical card say? Those would all be *services* provided by the government. Like the VA, only bigger.If I go in and get a knee replacement, isn’t that a “good distributed by the government”?
Hasn’t there also been talk of setting the prices for medications? Doesn’t that become control over “production” because the prices are not market-driven?
Under the public option the government would make huge purchases of medicines, equipment, etc. At some point say a few years from now, might some wise guy congressman (or president) say “Damn those fat cat pharma companies, let’s just make the drugs ourselves”?
Participant[quote=SK in CV]And no, the public option would not satisfy my socialism definition. No goods or services would be manufactured or distributed by the government.[/quote]
Really? No services distributed? Who would pay the doctors? Who would set their salaries? Who would pay for the medical care? What would your medical card say? Those would all be *services* provided by the government. Like the VA, only bigger.If I go in and get a knee replacement, isn’t that a “good distributed by the government”?
Hasn’t there also been talk of setting the prices for medications? Doesn’t that become control over “production” because the prices are not market-driven?
Under the public option the government would make huge purchases of medicines, equipment, etc. At some point say a few years from now, might some wise guy congressman (or president) say “Damn those fat cat pharma companies, let’s just make the drugs ourselves”?
Participant[quote=SK in CV]And no, the public option would not satisfy my socialism definition. No goods or services would be manufactured or distributed by the government.[/quote]
Really? No services distributed? Who would pay the doctors? Who would set their salaries? Who would pay for the medical care? What would your medical card say? Those would all be *services* provided by the government. Like the VA, only bigger.If I go in and get a knee replacement, isn’t that a “good distributed by the government”?
Hasn’t there also been talk of setting the prices for medications? Doesn’t that become control over “production” because the prices are not market-driven?
Under the public option the government would make huge purchases of medicines, equipment, etc. At some point say a few years from now, might some wise guy congressman (or president) say “Damn those fat cat pharma companies, let’s just make the drugs ourselves”?
Participant[quote=SK in CV]And no, the public option would not satisfy my socialism definition. No goods or services would be manufactured or distributed by the government.[/quote]
Really? No services distributed? Who would pay the doctors? Who would set their salaries? Who would pay for the medical care? What would your medical card say? Those would all be *services* provided by the government. Like the VA, only bigger.If I go in and get a knee replacement, isn’t that a “good distributed by the government”?
Hasn’t there also been talk of setting the prices for medications? Doesn’t that become control over “production” because the prices are not market-driven?
Under the public option the government would make huge purchases of medicines, equipment, etc. At some point say a few years from now, might some wise guy congressman (or president) say “Damn those fat cat pharma companies, let’s just make the drugs ourselves”?
Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=DWCAP]While I appreciate Johns trust in my field, we as a race will never cure death. It wont happen. This is Star Trek science, I only wish it was true.
We need to confront our fear of death. It will happen. We will not be able to cure everything, and even if we can replace some parts of our whole, we will not be able to replace everything.[/quote]
Well, I think that Star Trek will get here sooner or later. No reason why we can change the Human DNA to be disease free. Heck, we have disease resistant Corn. Why not Humans (g)?
John[/quote]
Even if you could engineer “disease free” dna (whatever that means) there will still be mutations. There’s just an awful lot of cell reproduction over the course of a lifetime in the presence of UV and other things that cause transcription errors…
There would still be birth defects, novel viruses (due to mutation), accidents in our flying cars, and tragic accidents due to negligence in the transporter room…
I’m pretty sure death is gonna be with us for awhile to come. And even if some small number of folks get to 150 or whatever, I think the mean will be slower to move – especially globally.
Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=DWCAP]While I appreciate Johns trust in my field, we as a race will never cure death. It wont happen. This is Star Trek science, I only wish it was true.
We need to confront our fear of death. It will happen. We will not be able to cure everything, and even if we can replace some parts of our whole, we will not be able to replace everything.[/quote]
Well, I think that Star Trek will get here sooner or later. No reason why we can change the Human DNA to be disease free. Heck, we have disease resistant Corn. Why not Humans (g)?
John[/quote]
Even if you could engineer “disease free” dna (whatever that means) there will still be mutations. There’s just an awful lot of cell reproduction over the course of a lifetime in the presence of UV and other things that cause transcription errors…
There would still be birth defects, novel viruses (due to mutation), accidents in our flying cars, and tragic accidents due to negligence in the transporter room…
I’m pretty sure death is gonna be with us for awhile to come. And even if some small number of folks get to 150 or whatever, I think the mean will be slower to move – especially globally.
Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=DWCAP]While I appreciate Johns trust in my field, we as a race will never cure death. It wont happen. This is Star Trek science, I only wish it was true.
We need to confront our fear of death. It will happen. We will not be able to cure everything, and even if we can replace some parts of our whole, we will not be able to replace everything.[/quote]
Well, I think that Star Trek will get here sooner or later. No reason why we can change the Human DNA to be disease free. Heck, we have disease resistant Corn. Why not Humans (g)?
John[/quote]
Even if you could engineer “disease free” dna (whatever that means) there will still be mutations. There’s just an awful lot of cell reproduction over the course of a lifetime in the presence of UV and other things that cause transcription errors…
There would still be birth defects, novel viruses (due to mutation), accidents in our flying cars, and tragic accidents due to negligence in the transporter room…
I’m pretty sure death is gonna be with us for awhile to come. And even if some small number of folks get to 150 or whatever, I think the mean will be slower to move – especially globally.
Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=DWCAP]While I appreciate Johns trust in my field, we as a race will never cure death. It wont happen. This is Star Trek science, I only wish it was true.
We need to confront our fear of death. It will happen. We will not be able to cure everything, and even if we can replace some parts of our whole, we will not be able to replace everything.[/quote]
Well, I think that Star Trek will get here sooner or later. No reason why we can change the Human DNA to be disease free. Heck, we have disease resistant Corn. Why not Humans (g)?
John[/quote]
Even if you could engineer “disease free” dna (whatever that means) there will still be mutations. There’s just an awful lot of cell reproduction over the course of a lifetime in the presence of UV and other things that cause transcription errors…
There would still be birth defects, novel viruses (due to mutation), accidents in our flying cars, and tragic accidents due to negligence in the transporter room…
I’m pretty sure death is gonna be with us for awhile to come. And even if some small number of folks get to 150 or whatever, I think the mean will be slower to move – especially globally.
Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=DWCAP]While I appreciate Johns trust in my field, we as a race will never cure death. It wont happen. This is Star Trek science, I only wish it was true.
We need to confront our fear of death. It will happen. We will not be able to cure everything, and even if we can replace some parts of our whole, we will not be able to replace everything.[/quote]
Well, I think that Star Trek will get here sooner or later. No reason why we can change the Human DNA to be disease free. Heck, we have disease resistant Corn. Why not Humans (g)?
John[/quote]
Even if you could engineer “disease free” dna (whatever that means) there will still be mutations. There’s just an awful lot of cell reproduction over the course of a lifetime in the presence of UV and other things that cause transcription errors…
There would still be birth defects, novel viruses (due to mutation), accidents in our flying cars, and tragic accidents due to negligence in the transporter room…
I’m pretty sure death is gonna be with us for awhile to come. And even if some small number of folks get to 150 or whatever, I think the mean will be slower to move – especially globally.
Participant[quote=SK in CV]
I understand that socialism is a fun word to throw around for those opposed to the current administration. But when using tax rates as evidence, it really becomes an assine assertion…Socialism, by the way, refers to government ownership of the production and distribution of goods and services. [/quote]
Ok, maybe not tax rates per se, but consider:
We now have a “Pay Czar”. Think about how anti-competitive, anti-free enterprise that really is.We’re going to have a new *required* health plan that people *must* participate in. There are very few precedents for things the government compels you to do. Taxes, selective service, anything else? This then adds a major new component to what it means to be a citizen. What if some folks want to do their own thing health care-wise? That’s not an option? The government is removing choice? One of the bills taxes “cadillac plans”. Why? On what basis? Why can’t a company choose to take care of its employees in the way it sees fit without arousing punishment from the government?
We’re telling companies what kind of bonuses they can give. We own AIG and GM, and half the mortgages in the country…
The senate version of the health plan taxes tanning salons 10%. What industries might be next? (actually I’d support a tax on fast food, due to societal costs, even though I admit that’s a bit anti-capitalistic of me)
The “public option” in the house bill by the way, it seems would satisfy your socialism definition of “production and distribution of goods and services”, don’t you think?
Participant[quote=SK in CV]
I understand that socialism is a fun word to throw around for those opposed to the current administration. But when using tax rates as evidence, it really becomes an assine assertion…Socialism, by the way, refers to government ownership of the production and distribution of goods and services. [/quote]
Ok, maybe not tax rates per se, but consider:
We now have a “Pay Czar”. Think about how anti-competitive, anti-free enterprise that really is.We’re going to have a new *required* health plan that people *must* participate in. There are very few precedents for things the government compels you to do. Taxes, selective service, anything else? This then adds a major new component to what it means to be a citizen. What if some folks want to do their own thing health care-wise? That’s not an option? The government is removing choice? One of the bills taxes “cadillac plans”. Why? On what basis? Why can’t a company choose to take care of its employees in the way it sees fit without arousing punishment from the government?
We’re telling companies what kind of bonuses they can give. We own AIG and GM, and half the mortgages in the country…
The senate version of the health plan taxes tanning salons 10%. What industries might be next? (actually I’d support a tax on fast food, due to societal costs, even though I admit that’s a bit anti-capitalistic of me)
The “public option” in the house bill by the way, it seems would satisfy your socialism definition of “production and distribution of goods and services”, don’t you think?
Participant[quote=SK in CV]
I understand that socialism is a fun word to throw around for those opposed to the current administration. But when using tax rates as evidence, it really becomes an assine assertion…Socialism, by the way, refers to government ownership of the production and distribution of goods and services. [/quote]
Ok, maybe not tax rates per se, but consider:
We now have a “Pay Czar”. Think about how anti-competitive, anti-free enterprise that really is.We’re going to have a new *required* health plan that people *must* participate in. There are very few precedents for things the government compels you to do. Taxes, selective service, anything else? This then adds a major new component to what it means to be a citizen. What if some folks want to do their own thing health care-wise? That’s not an option? The government is removing choice? One of the bills taxes “cadillac plans”. Why? On what basis? Why can’t a company choose to take care of its employees in the way it sees fit without arousing punishment from the government?
We’re telling companies what kind of bonuses they can give. We own AIG and GM, and half the mortgages in the country…
The senate version of the health plan taxes tanning salons 10%. What industries might be next? (actually I’d support a tax on fast food, due to societal costs, even though I admit that’s a bit anti-capitalistic of me)
The “public option” in the house bill by the way, it seems would satisfy your socialism definition of “production and distribution of goods and services”, don’t you think?
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