[gary_broker]

If you use Point software you will find both 4506 and 8821. You are correct in stating that the forms must be submitted within 60 days of signing.

This may be BS as the info is second hand but here is what I heard from someone who works inside at CFC. Lenders routinely pull IRS data a certain percentage of loans (checking income) to perform risk analysis. I also heard the percentage of IRS requests ramped up beginning in 2005 because they did not like what they were seeing. So although it appears these IRS forms are not the lender invoked “trump card” that can be submitted years after closing (such as I thought). In the end you do not know what data the lender has gathered immediatley after the loan closed.

BTW: I see nothing in the 8821 form that states the lender is precluded from using the information obtained from legacy tax forms to verify income. It’s late and I am tired but I don’t see it.

[gary_broker]

There is another major sticking point to non-recourse loans that I do not see getting discussed. I mostly sell real estate however I have done loans as part of my business. With loans I cautioned every client of mine regarding IRS form 8821 (I believe this is the right form no., I do not have a file in front of me to verify). Anyhoo this little gem is included in every closing package and basically gives the lender permission to pull your tax records at a later date.

If the borrower begins to default on payments and the lender surmises that the borrower exaggerated their income on the application then the lender can exercise the IRS form. If their exaggeration suspicions are verified then the lender has a fraud claim against the borrower. At this point I think you can throw the entire non-recourse status out of the window.

[gary_broker]

There is another major sticking point to non-recourse loans that I do not see getting discussed. I mostly sell real estate however I have done loans as part of my business. With loans I cautioned every client of mine regarding IRS form 8821 (I believe this is the right form no., I do not have a file in front of me to verify). Anyhoo this little gem is included in every closing package and basically gives the lender permission to pull your tax records at a later date.

If the borrower begins to default on payments and the lender surmises that the borrower exaggerated their income on the application then the lender can exercise the IRS form. If their exaggeration suspicions are verified then the lender has a fraud claim against the borrower. At this point I think you can throw the entire non-recourse status out of the window.

[gary_broker]

There is another major sticking point to non-recourse loans that I do not see getting discussed. I mostly sell real estate however I have done loans as part of my business. With loans I cautioned every client of mine regarding IRS form 8821 (I believe this is the right form no., I do not have a file in front of me to verify). Anyhoo this little gem is included in every closing package and basically gives the lender permission to pull your tax records at a later date.

If the borrower begins to default on payments and the lender surmises that the borrower exaggerated their income on the application then the lender can exercise the IRS form. If their exaggeration suspicions are verified then the lender has a fraud claim against the borrower. At this point I think you can throw the entire non-recourse status out of the window.

[gary_broker]

Hawk – that picture brought back memories of working in real estate in the early nineties. With the market fully tanking, agents were scrambling to get rid of their Lexus’s, beamer’s and benz’s. Two agents I knew had their cars “stolen” just to get out from underneath the payments. Others simply showed up at the dealer and threw the keys on the table. There was a huge glut of cars on the market at that time. I am sure this will happen again.

[gary_broker]

Hawk – that picture brought back memories of working in real estate in the early nineties. With the market fully tanking, agents were scrambling to get rid of their Lexus’s, beamer’s and benz’s. Two agents I knew had their cars “stolen” just to get out from underneath the payments. Others simply showed up at the dealer and threw the keys on the table. There was a huge glut of cars on the market at that time. I am sure this will happen again.

[gary_broker]

Hawk – that picture brought back memories of working in real estate in the early nineties. With the market fully tanking, agents were scrambling to get rid of their Lexus’s, beamer’s and benz’s. Two agents I knew had their cars “stolen” just to get out from underneath the payments. Others simply showed up at the dealer and threw the keys on the table. There was a huge glut of cars on the market at that time. I am sure this will happen again.

[gary_broker]

SD R
Meeting someone with that experience is invaluable. No doubt that history is repeating itself and the opportunities that were available in the nineties are brewing up again..and then some. Those are the type of conversations you go into with your ears wide open.

[gary_broker]

SD R
Meeting someone with that experience is invaluable. No doubt that history is repeating itself and the opportunities that were available in the nineties are brewing up again..and then some. Those are the type of conversations you go into with your ears wide open.

[gary_broker]

SD R
Meeting someone with that experience is invaluable. No doubt that history is repeating itself and the opportunities that were available in the nineties are brewing up again..and then some. Those are the type of conversations you go into with your ears wide open.

[gary_broker]

NSR
You have just succeeded in insulting idiots everywhere by comparing them to Richard Alarcon.

Let’s follow his logic…

““We have people losing their homes and that creates other problems,” Alarcon said. “If people lose their homes, they will be turning to the government for help.

Rather than have people go into poverty, we should try to help them.”

What??.. who the hell is “WE”? Oh wait it’s the taxpayers! What a brilliant idea Ricardo!! instead of having the taxpayers help them you get the taxpayers to help them!

This guy should be working at Taco Bell.

[gary_broker]

NSR
You have just succeeded in insulting idiots everywhere by comparing them to Richard Alarcon.

Let’s follow his logic…

““We have people losing their homes and that creates other problems,” Alarcon said. “If people lose their homes, they will be turning to the government for help.

Rather than have people go into poverty, we should try to help them.”

What??.. who the hell is “WE”? Oh wait it’s the taxpayers! What a brilliant idea Ricardo!! instead of having the taxpayers help them you get the taxpayers to help them!

This guy should be working at Taco Bell.

[gary_broker]

NSR
You have just succeeded in insulting idiots everywhere by comparing them to Richard Alarcon.

Let’s follow his logic…

““We have people losing their homes and that creates other problems,” Alarcon said. “If people lose their homes, they will be turning to the government for help.

Rather than have people go into poverty, we should try to help them.”

What??.. who the hell is “WE”? Oh wait it’s the taxpayers! What a brilliant idea Ricardo!! instead of having the taxpayers help them you get the taxpayers to help them!

This guy should be working at Taco Bell.

[gary_broker]

JES
Many insightful comments re: appearance vs reality. It is truly amazing that these type of people get-off on others perceiving them as rich.

“Bling, bling! Look at my bling! Look at my bank account and you won’t see a thing! And I can’t take it with me when I die, so it don’t mean a thing!”
This is classic~

[gary_broker]

JES
Many insightful comments re: appearance vs reality. It is truly amazing that these type of people get-off on others perceiving them as rich.

“Bling, bling! Look at my bling! Look at my bank account and you won’t see a thing! And I can’t take it with me when I die, so it don’t mean a thing!”
This is classic~

[Author]

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