[equalizer]

[quote=SK in CV]A question for you flu.

Based on this sketchy evidence, I have no idea if the father actually committed any crime. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t, but from what’s been presented, it certainly doesn’t appear to be sufficient to remove the kids from the home. But my question is this….what if the evidence was all but uncontrovertable. Actual photos of dad molesting the kids? Would that have been sufficient for you to believe the kids should be removed from the home?

The reason I ask, is that it seems to me that often when people assail big government, the actual complaint is about bad government. Maybe power hungry social workers. Maybe someone honestly believing, without good evidence that a crime has been committed. Smaller wouldn’t necessarily be any better. Fewer social workers on the street would just as likely to have dangerous egos. Or be so overworked that they just make mistakes. Should CPS not have the power to do what they do? Or should they just be better at it?

(And as an aside, if this government employee really is a social worker, she’s making much more than minimum wage. Social workers are trained medical professionals, and are reasonably well paid, although last I saw the pay scales, those working in the public sector are paid below those in the private sector.)[/quote]
People who enter social work are predisposed to believe everyone is guilty. Judges in the family courts also believe that everyone is a molester by default. They did not got to medical school, therefore they are NOT medical professionals with requisite ethical standards, just overzealous bureaucrats. I used to believe that governement agencies were full of nice, ethical people and then one day I turned 20 and grew up.

[equalizer]

[quote=temeculaguy]Flu, you need to be a little more skeptical. First, the link you provided goes to some world press blog and I didn’t see an author’s name. I did a little search and read a few versions of the article but it’s all pretty much the same, it’s from the lawyer of the father and a serbian consulate advocate. So you are hearing one side of the story and making assumptions, which is exactly what the lawyer wants you to do. I’m not saying the lawyer is lying or wrong but break down his press release. The lawyer said that cps produced a videotape of the five year claiming the father innapropriately touched her, the lawyer said the contact was routine “such as drying off the child with a towel.” He also said the questions were ambiguous. Look at the accusation he chose to give you and the media, a harmless act that all parents do. But he doesn’t tell you what the other allegations were yet he throws out an attack of the ambiguous nature of the questions (“such as” means that is but one example). He’s prepping the defense for what those other allegations are. The authorities can’t tell the media anything, they are prohibited. I’m sure there is more to the story. This is a spin tactic to get the agency to give up, to try the case in the court of public opinion where only one side gets to talk. Maybe they are right, but don’t be so quick to judge because you and I only know hat the defense wants us to know. Maybe the questions weren’t ambiguous, why doesn’t the lawyer tell us the questions? Lawyers aren;t evil, they have a job to do. They don’t usually lie, but they do omit things that are damaging to their client, especially in the media.

Why not wait to hear both sides of the story before deciding? More often than not, cps would love to show you everything but they are prohibited from doing so.

Imagine you have a friend that is going through a divorce, or got arrested, or lost a bet, or lost an argument. Now imagine he tells you his side of the story, but you cant ask questions and you cant talk to the other party. You will probably certainly side with him, just from what he tells you, he certainly got screwed somehow. But we dont live like this, we ask our friend questions, sometimes we know the other person and we almost certainly dont see it how he wants us to see it once we delve a little deeper into it. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. What you have just done is taken everything your friend said as fact and made a decision on how the world operates. Take a step back, doubt both sides and always doubt the side that is talking.

Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see.[/quote]
Yes, TG be very skeptical. Just as an investment banker will make massive bets to get a bigger commission, everyone in the justice system is faced with reward system that does not always align with social good. Every single day in this country a prosecutor may withhold evidence from courts to bolster their conviction rate and run for higher office. What is the chance of getting caught – practically nil. [Defense lawyers do not have same responsibilty to society so never trust them] If you examine the death penalty appeals conducted by Northwestern Law students there were several cases of prima facia prosecutorial misconduct that went unpunished. The “system was so deeply flawed” that the the former Gov commuted all the death penalty cases to life in prison.

The McMartin preschool case from mid 80’s was another travesty that was Akiki story on steroids. With absolutely no physical evidence -“After six years of criminal trials, no convictions were obtained, and all charges were dropped in 1990. When the trial ended in 1990 it had been the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history $15M”.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/mcmartin_daycare/9.html

[equalizer]

[quote=temeculaguy]Flu, you need to be a little more skeptical. First, the link you provided goes to some world press blog and I didn’t see an author’s name. I did a little search and read a few versions of the article but it’s all pretty much the same, it’s from the lawyer of the father and a serbian consulate advocate. So you are hearing one side of the story and making assumptions, which is exactly what the lawyer wants you to do. I’m not saying the lawyer is lying or wrong but break down his press release. The lawyer said that cps produced a videotape of the five year claiming the father innapropriately touched her, the lawyer said the contact was routine “such as drying off the child with a towel.” He also said the questions were ambiguous. Look at the accusation he chose to give you and the media, a harmless act that all parents do. But he doesn’t tell you what the other allegations were yet he throws out an attack of the ambiguous nature of the questions (“such as” means that is but one example). He’s prepping the defense for what those other allegations are. The authorities can’t tell the media anything, they are prohibited. I’m sure there is more to the story. This is a spin tactic to get the agency to give up, to try the case in the court of public opinion where only one side gets to talk. Maybe they are right, but don’t be so quick to judge because you and I only know hat the defense wants us to know. Maybe the questions weren’t ambiguous, why doesn’t the lawyer tell us the questions? Lawyers aren;t evil, they have a job to do. They don’t usually lie, but they do omit things that are damaging to their client, especially in the media.

Why not wait to hear both sides of the story before deciding? More often than not, cps would love to show you everything but they are prohibited from doing so.

Imagine you have a friend that is going through a divorce, or got arrested, or lost a bet, or lost an argument. Now imagine he tells you his side of the story, but you cant ask questions and you cant talk to the other party. You will probably certainly side with him, just from what he tells you, he certainly got screwed somehow. But we dont live like this, we ask our friend questions, sometimes we know the other person and we almost certainly dont see it how he wants us to see it once we delve a little deeper into it. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. What you have just done is taken everything your friend said as fact and made a decision on how the world operates. Take a step back, doubt both sides and always doubt the side that is talking.

Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see.[/quote]
Yes, TG be very skeptical. Just as an investment banker will make massive bets to get a bigger commission, everyone in the justice system is faced with reward system that does not always align with social good. Every single day in this country a prosecutor may withhold evidence from courts to bolster their conviction rate and run for higher office. What is the chance of getting caught – practically nil. [Defense lawyers do not have same responsibilty to society so never trust them] If you examine the death penalty appeals conducted by Northwestern Law students there were several cases of prima facia prosecutorial misconduct that went unpunished. The “system was so deeply flawed” that the the former Gov commuted all the death penalty cases to life in prison.

The McMartin preschool case from mid 80’s was another travesty that was Akiki story on steroids. With absolutely no physical evidence -“After six years of criminal trials, no convictions were obtained, and all charges were dropped in 1990. When the trial ended in 1990 it had been the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history $15M”.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/mcmartin_daycare/9.html

[equalizer]

[quote=temeculaguy]Flu, you need to be a little more skeptical. First, the link you provided goes to some world press blog and I didn’t see an author’s name. I did a little search and read a few versions of the article but it’s all pretty much the same, it’s from the lawyer of the father and a serbian consulate advocate. So you are hearing one side of the story and making assumptions, which is exactly what the lawyer wants you to do. I’m not saying the lawyer is lying or wrong but break down his press release. The lawyer said that cps produced a videotape of the five year claiming the father innapropriately touched her, the lawyer said the contact was routine “such as drying off the child with a towel.” He also said the questions were ambiguous. Look at the accusation he chose to give you and the media, a harmless act that all parents do. But he doesn’t tell you what the other allegations were yet he throws out an attack of the ambiguous nature of the questions (“such as” means that is but one example). He’s prepping the defense for what those other allegations are. The authorities can’t tell the media anything, they are prohibited. I’m sure there is more to the story. This is a spin tactic to get the agency to give up, to try the case in the court of public opinion where only one side gets to talk. Maybe they are right, but don’t be so quick to judge because you and I only know hat the defense wants us to know. Maybe the questions weren’t ambiguous, why doesn’t the lawyer tell us the questions? Lawyers aren;t evil, they have a job to do. They don’t usually lie, but they do omit things that are damaging to their client, especially in the media.

Why not wait to hear both sides of the story before deciding? More often than not, cps would love to show you everything but they are prohibited from doing so.

Imagine you have a friend that is going through a divorce, or got arrested, or lost a bet, or lost an argument. Now imagine he tells you his side of the story, but you cant ask questions and you cant talk to the other party. You will probably certainly side with him, just from what he tells you, he certainly got screwed somehow. But we dont live like this, we ask our friend questions, sometimes we know the other person and we almost certainly dont see it how he wants us to see it once we delve a little deeper into it. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. What you have just done is taken everything your friend said as fact and made a decision on how the world operates. Take a step back, doubt both sides and always doubt the side that is talking.

Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see.[/quote]
Yes, TG be very skeptical. Just as an investment banker will make massive bets to get a bigger commission, everyone in the justice system is faced with reward system that does not always align with social good. Every single day in this country a prosecutor may withhold evidence from courts to bolster their conviction rate and run for higher office. What is the chance of getting caught – practically nil. [Defense lawyers do not have same responsibilty to society so never trust them] If you examine the death penalty appeals conducted by Northwestern Law students there were several cases of prima facia prosecutorial misconduct that went unpunished. The “system was so deeply flawed” that the the former Gov commuted all the death penalty cases to life in prison.

The McMartin preschool case from mid 80’s was another travesty that was Akiki story on steroids. With absolutely no physical evidence -“After six years of criminal trials, no convictions were obtained, and all charges were dropped in 1990. When the trial ended in 1990 it had been the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history $15M”.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/mcmartin_daycare/9.html

[equalizer]

[quote=temeculaguy]Flu, you need to be a little more skeptical. First, the link you provided goes to some world press blog and I didn’t see an author’s name. I did a little search and read a few versions of the article but it’s all pretty much the same, it’s from the lawyer of the father and a serbian consulate advocate. So you are hearing one side of the story and making assumptions, which is exactly what the lawyer wants you to do. I’m not saying the lawyer is lying or wrong but break down his press release. The lawyer said that cps produced a videotape of the five year claiming the father innapropriately touched her, the lawyer said the contact was routine “such as drying off the child with a towel.” He also said the questions were ambiguous. Look at the accusation he chose to give you and the media, a harmless act that all parents do. But he doesn’t tell you what the other allegations were yet he throws out an attack of the ambiguous nature of the questions (“such as” means that is but one example). He’s prepping the defense for what those other allegations are. The authorities can’t tell the media anything, they are prohibited. I’m sure there is more to the story. This is a spin tactic to get the agency to give up, to try the case in the court of public opinion where only one side gets to talk. Maybe they are right, but don’t be so quick to judge because you and I only know hat the defense wants us to know. Maybe the questions weren’t ambiguous, why doesn’t the lawyer tell us the questions? Lawyers aren;t evil, they have a job to do. They don’t usually lie, but they do omit things that are damaging to their client, especially in the media.

Why not wait to hear both sides of the story before deciding? More often than not, cps would love to show you everything but they are prohibited from doing so.

Imagine you have a friend that is going through a divorce, or got arrested, or lost a bet, or lost an argument. Now imagine he tells you his side of the story, but you cant ask questions and you cant talk to the other party. You will probably certainly side with him, just from what he tells you, he certainly got screwed somehow. But we dont live like this, we ask our friend questions, sometimes we know the other person and we almost certainly dont see it how he wants us to see it once we delve a little deeper into it. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. What you have just done is taken everything your friend said as fact and made a decision on how the world operates. Take a step back, doubt both sides and always doubt the side that is talking.

Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see.[/quote]
Yes, TG be very skeptical. Just as an investment banker will make massive bets to get a bigger commission, everyone in the justice system is faced with reward system that does not always align with social good. Every single day in this country a prosecutor may withhold evidence from courts to bolster their conviction rate and run for higher office. What is the chance of getting caught – practically nil. [Defense lawyers do not have same responsibilty to society so never trust them] If you examine the death penalty appeals conducted by Northwestern Law students there were several cases of prima facia prosecutorial misconduct that went unpunished. The “system was so deeply flawed” that the the former Gov commuted all the death penalty cases to life in prison.

The McMartin preschool case from mid 80’s was another travesty that was Akiki story on steroids. With absolutely no physical evidence -“After six years of criminal trials, no convictions were obtained, and all charges were dropped in 1990. When the trial ended in 1990 it had been the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history $15M”.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/mcmartin_daycare/9.html

[equalizer]

[quote=temeculaguy]Flu, you need to be a little more skeptical. First, the link you provided goes to some world press blog and I didn’t see an author’s name. I did a little search and read a few versions of the article but it’s all pretty much the same, it’s from the lawyer of the father and a serbian consulate advocate. So you are hearing one side of the story and making assumptions, which is exactly what the lawyer wants you to do. I’m not saying the lawyer is lying or wrong but break down his press release. The lawyer said that cps produced a videotape of the five year claiming the father innapropriately touched her, the lawyer said the contact was routine “such as drying off the child with a towel.” He also said the questions were ambiguous. Look at the accusation he chose to give you and the media, a harmless act that all parents do. But he doesn’t tell you what the other allegations were yet he throws out an attack of the ambiguous nature of the questions (“such as” means that is but one example). He’s prepping the defense for what those other allegations are. The authorities can’t tell the media anything, they are prohibited. I’m sure there is more to the story. This is a spin tactic to get the agency to give up, to try the case in the court of public opinion where only one side gets to talk. Maybe they are right, but don’t be so quick to judge because you and I only know hat the defense wants us to know. Maybe the questions weren’t ambiguous, why doesn’t the lawyer tell us the questions? Lawyers aren;t evil, they have a job to do. They don’t usually lie, but they do omit things that are damaging to their client, especially in the media.

Why not wait to hear both sides of the story before deciding? More often than not, cps would love to show you everything but they are prohibited from doing so.

Imagine you have a friend that is going through a divorce, or got arrested, or lost a bet, or lost an argument. Now imagine he tells you his side of the story, but you cant ask questions and you cant talk to the other party. You will probably certainly side with him, just from what he tells you, he certainly got screwed somehow. But we dont live like this, we ask our friend questions, sometimes we know the other person and we almost certainly dont see it how he wants us to see it once we delve a little deeper into it. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. What you have just done is taken everything your friend said as fact and made a decision on how the world operates. Take a step back, doubt both sides and always doubt the side that is talking.

Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see.[/quote]
Yes, TG be very skeptical. Just as an investment banker will make massive bets to get a bigger commission, everyone in the justice system is faced with reward system that does not always align with social good. Every single day in this country a prosecutor may withhold evidence from courts to bolster their conviction rate and run for higher office. What is the chance of getting caught – practically nil. [Defense lawyers do not have same responsibilty to society so never trust them] If you examine the death penalty appeals conducted by Northwestern Law students there were several cases of prima facia prosecutorial misconduct that went unpunished. The “system was so deeply flawed” that the the former Gov commuted all the death penalty cases to life in prison.

The McMartin preschool case from mid 80’s was another travesty that was Akiki story on steroids. With absolutely no physical evidence -“After six years of criminal trials, no convictions were obtained, and all charges were dropped in 1990. When the trial ended in 1990 it had been the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history $15M”.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/mcmartin_daycare/9.html

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]Sad cuz when I think of it, my wife and I have a several videos we have taken of the boys in the tub taking a bath. They have bathed together since the youngest was born and now they are 4 and 5 so as you would guess the videos have gotten more and more priceless. My wife also has a few good ransom pictures of each of them that she plans to show their girlfriends when they are teenagers just to embarass the crap out of them. Our younger one loves to run around naked with a towel only he uses as a cape and he is “nekkid man” chasing our cats and dogs all over the home.

Man oh man….[/quote]
If you love your children you have a few options:
1) Never, ever take a picture of anyone under 18. Never.
2) Move to another country, any other country. I just got back from Dubai and India where they have strict ban on pornography. An Indian doctor who was shipping adult magazines to India got a 10 year prison sentence when he returned to India. And yet no place but here will they kidnap kids without extreme proof.
3) Since you didn’t follow my first 2 rules, you can gather up all your photoalbums, video tapes, memory cards, hard drives and take them to Burning man and burn them. And don’t forget rule #1.

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]Sad cuz when I think of it, my wife and I have a several videos we have taken of the boys in the tub taking a bath. They have bathed together since the youngest was born and now they are 4 and 5 so as you would guess the videos have gotten more and more priceless. My wife also has a few good ransom pictures of each of them that she plans to show their girlfriends when they are teenagers just to embarass the crap out of them. Our younger one loves to run around naked with a towel only he uses as a cape and he is “nekkid man” chasing our cats and dogs all over the home.

Man oh man….[/quote]
If you love your children you have a few options:
1) Never, ever take a picture of anyone under 18. Never.
2) Move to another country, any other country. I just got back from Dubai and India where they have strict ban on pornography. An Indian doctor who was shipping adult magazines to India got a 10 year prison sentence when he returned to India. And yet no place but here will they kidnap kids without extreme proof.
3) Since you didn’t follow my first 2 rules, you can gather up all your photoalbums, video tapes, memory cards, hard drives and take them to Burning man and burn them. And don’t forget rule #1.

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]Sad cuz when I think of it, my wife and I have a several videos we have taken of the boys in the tub taking a bath. They have bathed together since the youngest was born and now they are 4 and 5 so as you would guess the videos have gotten more and more priceless. My wife also has a few good ransom pictures of each of them that she plans to show their girlfriends when they are teenagers just to embarass the crap out of them. Our younger one loves to run around naked with a towel only he uses as a cape and he is “nekkid man” chasing our cats and dogs all over the home.

Man oh man….[/quote]
If you love your children you have a few options:
1) Never, ever take a picture of anyone under 18. Never.
2) Move to another country, any other country. I just got back from Dubai and India where they have strict ban on pornography. An Indian doctor who was shipping adult magazines to India got a 10 year prison sentence when he returned to India. And yet no place but here will they kidnap kids without extreme proof.
3) Since you didn’t follow my first 2 rules, you can gather up all your photoalbums, video tapes, memory cards, hard drives and take them to Burning man and burn them. And don’t forget rule #1.

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]Sad cuz when I think of it, my wife and I have a several videos we have taken of the boys in the tub taking a bath. They have bathed together since the youngest was born and now they are 4 and 5 so as you would guess the videos have gotten more and more priceless. My wife also has a few good ransom pictures of each of them that she plans to show their girlfriends when they are teenagers just to embarass the crap out of them. Our younger one loves to run around naked with a towel only he uses as a cape and he is “nekkid man” chasing our cats and dogs all over the home.

Man oh man….[/quote]
If you love your children you have a few options:
1) Never, ever take a picture of anyone under 18. Never.
2) Move to another country, any other country. I just got back from Dubai and India where they have strict ban on pornography. An Indian doctor who was shipping adult magazines to India got a 10 year prison sentence when he returned to India. And yet no place but here will they kidnap kids without extreme proof.
3) Since you didn’t follow my first 2 rules, you can gather up all your photoalbums, video tapes, memory cards, hard drives and take them to Burning man and burn them. And don’t forget rule #1.

[equalizer]

[quote=SD Realtor]Sad cuz when I think of it, my wife and I have a several videos we have taken of the boys in the tub taking a bath. They have bathed together since the youngest was born and now they are 4 and 5 so as you would guess the videos have gotten more and more priceless. My wife also has a few good ransom pictures of each of them that she plans to show their girlfriends when they are teenagers just to embarass the crap out of them. Our younger one loves to run around naked with a towel only he uses as a cape and he is “nekkid man” chasing our cats and dogs all over the home.

Man oh man….[/quote]
If you love your children you have a few options:
1) Never, ever take a picture of anyone under 18. Never.
2) Move to another country, any other country. I just got back from Dubai and India where they have strict ban on pornography. An Indian doctor who was shipping adult magazines to India got a 10 year prison sentence when he returned to India. And yet no place but here will they kidnap kids without extreme proof.
3) Since you didn’t follow my first 2 rules, you can gather up all your photoalbums, video tapes, memory cards, hard drives and take them to Burning man and burn them. And don’t forget rule #1.

[equalizer]

[quote=flu]
But hey, I’m going to get around this…Before my kid is a freshman in high schoool, I’m going to temporarily change her last name to something like “Smith” or “Ramirez” and not check the ethnicity box… Hey, perfectly legal to change one’s last name, and if the admissions board classifies her mistakenly, that’s not exactly my fault is it? Yes, it might sound ridiculous…But that’s just how ridiculous some of our social policies are….[/quote]
Don’t forget to move kid in last year of HS to lowest performing school in county, sure way to get into any college.

[equalizer]

[quote=flu]
But hey, I’m going to get around this…Before my kid is a freshman in high schoool, I’m going to temporarily change her last name to something like “Smith” or “Ramirez” and not check the ethnicity box… Hey, perfectly legal to change one’s last name, and if the admissions board classifies her mistakenly, that’s not exactly my fault is it? Yes, it might sound ridiculous…But that’s just how ridiculous some of our social policies are….[/quote]
Don’t forget to move kid in last year of HS to lowest performing school in county, sure way to get into any college.

[equalizer]

[quote=flu]
But hey, I’m going to get around this…Before my kid is a freshman in high schoool, I’m going to temporarily change her last name to something like “Smith” or “Ramirez” and not check the ethnicity box… Hey, perfectly legal to change one’s last name, and if the admissions board classifies her mistakenly, that’s not exactly my fault is it? Yes, it might sound ridiculous…But that’s just how ridiculous some of our social policies are….[/quote]
Don’t forget to move kid in last year of HS to lowest performing school in county, sure way to get into any college.

[equalizer]

[quote=flu]
But hey, I’m going to get around this…Before my kid is a freshman in high schoool, I’m going to temporarily change her last name to something like “Smith” or “Ramirez” and not check the ethnicity box… Hey, perfectly legal to change one’s last name, and if the admissions board classifies her mistakenly, that’s not exactly my fault is it? Yes, it might sound ridiculous…But that’s just how ridiculous some of our social policies are….[/quote]
Don’t forget to move kid in last year of HS to lowest performing school in county, sure way to get into any college.

[Author]

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