[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.[/quote]

We Piggs have to buy a TV network. The commentary would be intelligent and diverse (something missing from just about every network news production except that of PBS and Comedy Central these days), and we certainly could do a better job than the Hannitys, Olbermans, Becks, Scarboroughs, Schultzes, and whoever is the latest through CNN’s revolving door. We can call it TSNN (Tough Shit News Network) and use slogans like, “You’re Not Going To Like What We’re Going To Tell You”. And “If You Can’t Handle It, Don’t Tune In”. And “If You’re Looking For Someone Who Agrees With You, Change the Channel.” And “Trying To Make A Difference In America. Not In Your Screwup Of A Life”. No human interest stories here. And no journalists posing as neutral commentators. No fake outrage. In fact, no emotion of any sort. We’re reporting the news, for pete’s sake.

Oh, and every penny we’d make, over and above production costs, would be donated to pay off the national debt. I think we’d be a cinch to succeed. But, if not, who gives a rat’s ass.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.[/quote]

We Piggs have to buy a TV network. The commentary would be intelligent and diverse (something missing from just about every network news production except that of PBS and Comedy Central these days), and we certainly could do a better job than the Hannitys, Olbermans, Becks, Scarboroughs, Schultzes, and whoever is the latest through CNN’s revolving door. We can call it TSNN (Tough Shit News Network) and use slogans like, “You’re Not Going To Like What We’re Going To Tell You”. And “If You Can’t Handle It, Don’t Tune In”. And “If You’re Looking For Someone Who Agrees With You, Change the Channel.” And “Trying To Make A Difference In America. Not In Your Screwup Of A Life”. No human interest stories here. And no journalists posing as neutral commentators. No fake outrage. In fact, no emotion of any sort. We’re reporting the news, for pete’s sake.

Oh, and every penny we’d make, over and above production costs, would be donated to pay off the national debt. I think we’d be a cinch to succeed. But, if not, who gives a rat’s ass.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country…….[/quote]

Anyone disagree with Alan, go to your television guide, and take a look at the listings. Sorta makes it difficult to dispute.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.[/quote]

Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

But it’s so much more satisfying to bitch and moan about how people who are really Communists and Socialists are taking away our rights and our country. Especially since there are a lot of people in chatrooms and message boards who are saying exactly the same thing. And it really gets fun when we start talking about how we might have to load our guns and take matters into our own hands. It’s times like that when I can almost forget that I’m in a dead-end job because I thought school was boring and a joke, or that my wife lost hers because her employer downsized and chose to keep the more-dependable employee. Or that I’m in the late stages of foreclosure because I took out a giant risky loan to buy a house bigger than my sister’s, and then sucked all the equity out of it so that I could invest in a boat and matching fully-loaded Yukons for me and the wife. Or that I have $75K in credit card debt because I didn’t want my baby girl to have to face the other girls at school without the breast implants and nosejob she needed.

Seriously, there’s a lot going on in the US today that’s protest-worthy. But, as I said earlier, most of these people have no idea what they’re protesting against. They’re simply following some other opportunistic politician(s), repeating every word and phrase they’re fed, and accomplishing nothing but polarization in the process.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Gee, Alan, you’re starting to sound like Ayn Rand. I elect you to be John Galt in the film.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country…….[/quote]

Anyone disagree with Alan, go to your television guide, and take a look at the listings. Sorta makes it difficult to dispute.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.[/quote]

Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

But it’s so much more satisfying to bitch and moan about how people who are really Communists and Socialists are taking away our rights and our country. Especially since there are a lot of people in chatrooms and message boards who are saying exactly the same thing. And it really gets fun when we start talking about how we might have to load our guns and take matters into our own hands. It’s times like that when I can almost forget that I’m in a dead-end job because I thought school was boring and a joke, or that my wife lost hers because her employer downsized and chose to keep the more-dependable employee. Or that I’m in the late stages of foreclosure because I took out a giant risky loan to buy a house bigger than my sister’s, and then sucked all the equity out of it so that I could invest in a boat and matching fully-loaded Yukons for me and the wife. Or that I have $75K in credit card debt because I didn’t want my baby girl to have to face the other girls at school without the breast implants and nosejob she needed.

Seriously, there’s a lot going on in the US today that’s protest-worthy. But, as I said earlier, most of these people have no idea what they’re protesting against. They’re simply following some other opportunistic politician(s), repeating every word and phrase they’re fed, and accomplishing nothing but polarization in the process.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Gee, Alan, you’re starting to sound like Ayn Rand. I elect you to be John Galt in the film.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country…….[/quote]

Anyone disagree with Alan, go to your television guide, and take a look at the listings. Sorta makes it difficult to dispute.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.[/quote]

Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

But it’s so much more satisfying to bitch and moan about how people who are really Communists and Socialists are taking away our rights and our country. Especially since there are a lot of people in chatrooms and message boards who are saying exactly the same thing. And it really gets fun when we start talking about how we might have to load our guns and take matters into our own hands. It’s times like that when I can almost forget that I’m in a dead-end job because I thought school was boring and a joke, or that my wife lost hers because her employer downsized and chose to keep the more-dependable employee. Or that I’m in the late stages of foreclosure because I took out a giant risky loan to buy a house bigger than my sister’s, and then sucked all the equity out of it so that I could invest in a boat and matching fully-loaded Yukons for me and the wife. Or that I have $75K in credit card debt because I didn’t want my baby girl to have to face the other girls at school without the breast implants and nosejob she needed.

Seriously, there’s a lot going on in the US today that’s protest-worthy. But, as I said earlier, most of these people have no idea what they’re protesting against. They’re simply following some other opportunistic politician(s), repeating every word and phrase they’re fed, and accomplishing nothing but polarization in the process.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Gee, Alan, you’re starting to sound like Ayn Rand. I elect you to be John Galt in the film.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country…….[/quote]

Anyone disagree with Alan, go to your television guide, and take a look at the listings. Sorta makes it difficult to dispute.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.[/quote]

Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

But it’s so much more satisfying to bitch and moan about how people who are really Communists and Socialists are taking away our rights and our country. Especially since there are a lot of people in chatrooms and message boards who are saying exactly the same thing. And it really gets fun when we start talking about how we might have to load our guns and take matters into our own hands. It’s times like that when I can almost forget that I’m in a dead-end job because I thought school was boring and a joke, or that my wife lost hers because her employer downsized and chose to keep the more-dependable employee. Or that I’m in the late stages of foreclosure because I took out a giant risky loan to buy a house bigger than my sister’s, and then sucked all the equity out of it so that I could invest in a boat and matching fully-loaded Yukons for me and the wife. Or that I have $75K in credit card debt because I didn’t want my baby girl to have to face the other girls at school without the breast implants and nosejob she needed.

Seriously, there’s a lot going on in the US today that’s protest-worthy. But, as I said earlier, most of these people have no idea what they’re protesting against. They’re simply following some other opportunistic politician(s), repeating every word and phrase they’re fed, and accomplishing nothing but polarization in the process.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Gee, Alan, you’re starting to sound like Ayn Rand. I elect you to be John Galt in the film.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country…….[/quote]

Anyone disagree with Alan, go to your television guide, and take a look at the listings. Sorta makes it difficult to dispute.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.[/quote]

Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

But it’s so much more satisfying to bitch and moan about how people who are really Communists and Socialists are taking away our rights and our country. Especially since there are a lot of people in chatrooms and message boards who are saying exactly the same thing. And it really gets fun when we start talking about how we might have to load our guns and take matters into our own hands. It’s times like that when I can almost forget that I’m in a dead-end job because I thought school was boring and a joke, or that my wife lost hers because her employer downsized and chose to keep the more-dependable employee. Or that I’m in the late stages of foreclosure because I took out a giant risky loan to buy a house bigger than my sister’s, and then sucked all the equity out of it so that I could invest in a boat and matching fully-loaded Yukons for me and the wife. Or that I have $75K in credit card debt because I didn’t want my baby girl to have to face the other girls at school without the breast implants and nosejob she needed.

Seriously, there’s a lot going on in the US today that’s protest-worthy. But, as I said earlier, most of these people have no idea what they’re protesting against. They’re simply following some other opportunistic politician(s), repeating every word and phrase they’re fed, and accomplishing nothing but polarization in the process.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Gee, Alan, you’re starting to sound like Ayn Rand. I elect you to be John Galt in the film.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu] I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…[/quote]

This is so spot-on. I really love this one, “It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…” Amen, Brother flu!

That’s one of the problems of the last 30 years: class lines have all but disappeared in people’s minds (and I use the term “class lines” loosely, so don’t be getting all over me about it, fellow Piggs).

Everyone is thinking they’re just as good as the next guy (gal), should make as much money, should live in as nice a neighborhood in as big a house, and drive the same luxury car. For quite a while, the booming real estate market and incredibly lax lending “standards” helped people to pretend (in a very real way) that this was actually the case.

There’s a big part of our population under the age of 30 who really believes this to be true. After all, they got the same trophy as all the other players on the peewee soccer team did, even though they really sucked. And they got Bs on their report cards after their mom went to the school and got the Ds taken away. Its not their fault that their “degree” in fashion merchandising didn’t get them that job as a systems programmer or genetics researcher – the interviewer was old and envious of their youth and beauty….

There’s no motivation for people to get an education these days. College isn’t about getting yourself some skills that an employer might actually need and want. For many, it’s just a way to put off the real world for a few more years. Attitudes have changed markedly over the past 30 years: there’s no shame in not getting or keeping employment, and there’s no shame in seeking out and taking unending government assistance. Unfortunately, there always seems to be a government safety net in place for these people.

I hear what you’re saying about the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood you’ve chosen to adopt. I’ve tried to do the same, and it’s cheaper than Xanax (even if it doesn’t work as well). Gosh, I hope there’s a government mental health plan for that in the works.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu] I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…[/quote]

This is so spot-on. I really love this one, “It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…” Amen, Brother flu!

That’s one of the problems of the last 30 years: class lines have all but disappeared in people’s minds (and I use the term “class lines” loosely, so don’t be getting all over me about it, fellow Piggs).

Everyone is thinking they’re just as good as the next guy (gal), should make as much money, should live in as nice a neighborhood in as big a house, and drive the same luxury car. For quite a while, the booming real estate market and incredibly lax lending “standards” helped people to pretend (in a very real way) that this was actually the case.

There’s a big part of our population under the age of 30 who really believes this to be true. After all, they got the same trophy as all the other players on the peewee soccer team did, even though they really sucked. And they got Bs on their report cards after their mom went to the school and got the Ds taken away. Its not their fault that their “degree” in fashion merchandising didn’t get them that job as a systems programmer or genetics researcher – the interviewer was old and envious of their youth and beauty….

There’s no motivation for people to get an education these days. College isn’t about getting yourself some skills that an employer might actually need and want. For many, it’s just a way to put off the real world for a few more years. Attitudes have changed markedly over the past 30 years: there’s no shame in not getting or keeping employment, and there’s no shame in seeking out and taking unending government assistance. Unfortunately, there always seems to be a government safety net in place for these people.

I hear what you’re saying about the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood you’ve chosen to adopt. I’ve tried to do the same, and it’s cheaper than Xanax (even if it doesn’t work as well). Gosh, I hope there’s a government mental health plan for that in the works.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu] I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…[/quote]

This is so spot-on. I really love this one, “It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…” Amen, Brother flu!

That’s one of the problems of the last 30 years: class lines have all but disappeared in people’s minds (and I use the term “class lines” loosely, so don’t be getting all over me about it, fellow Piggs).

Everyone is thinking they’re just as good as the next guy (gal), should make as much money, should live in as nice a neighborhood in as big a house, and drive the same luxury car. For quite a while, the booming real estate market and incredibly lax lending “standards” helped people to pretend (in a very real way) that this was actually the case.

There’s a big part of our population under the age of 30 who really believes this to be true. After all, they got the same trophy as all the other players on the peewee soccer team did, even though they really sucked. And they got Bs on their report cards after their mom went to the school and got the Ds taken away. Its not their fault that their “degree” in fashion merchandising didn’t get them that job as a systems programmer or genetics researcher – the interviewer was old and envious of their youth and beauty….

There’s no motivation for people to get an education these days. College isn’t about getting yourself some skills that an employer might actually need and want. For many, it’s just a way to put off the real world for a few more years. Attitudes have changed markedly over the past 30 years: there’s no shame in not getting or keeping employment, and there’s no shame in seeking out and taking unending government assistance. Unfortunately, there always seems to be a government safety net in place for these people.

I hear what you’re saying about the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood you’ve chosen to adopt. I’ve tried to do the same, and it’s cheaper than Xanax (even if it doesn’t work as well). Gosh, I hope there’s a government mental health plan for that in the works.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu] I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…[/quote]

This is so spot-on. I really love this one, “It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…” Amen, Brother flu!

That’s one of the problems of the last 30 years: class lines have all but disappeared in people’s minds (and I use the term “class lines” loosely, so don’t be getting all over me about it, fellow Piggs).

Everyone is thinking they’re just as good as the next guy (gal), should make as much money, should live in as nice a neighborhood in as big a house, and drive the same luxury car. For quite a while, the booming real estate market and incredibly lax lending “standards” helped people to pretend (in a very real way) that this was actually the case.

There’s a big part of our population under the age of 30 who really believes this to be true. After all, they got the same trophy as all the other players on the peewee soccer team did, even though they really sucked. And they got Bs on their report cards after their mom went to the school and got the Ds taken away. Its not their fault that their “degree” in fashion merchandising didn’t get them that job as a systems programmer or genetics researcher – the interviewer was old and envious of their youth and beauty….

There’s no motivation for people to get an education these days. College isn’t about getting yourself some skills that an employer might actually need and want. For many, it’s just a way to put off the real world for a few more years. Attitudes have changed markedly over the past 30 years: there’s no shame in not getting or keeping employment, and there’s no shame in seeking out and taking unending government assistance. Unfortunately, there always seems to be a government safety net in place for these people.

I hear what you’re saying about the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood you’ve chosen to adopt. I’ve tried to do the same, and it’s cheaper than Xanax (even if it doesn’t work as well). Gosh, I hope there’s a government mental health plan for that in the works.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu] I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…[/quote]

This is so spot-on. I really love this one, “It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…” Amen, Brother flu!

That’s one of the problems of the last 30 years: class lines have all but disappeared in people’s minds (and I use the term “class lines” loosely, so don’t be getting all over me about it, fellow Piggs).

Everyone is thinking they’re just as good as the next guy (gal), should make as much money, should live in as nice a neighborhood in as big a house, and drive the same luxury car. For quite a while, the booming real estate market and incredibly lax lending “standards” helped people to pretend (in a very real way) that this was actually the case.

There’s a big part of our population under the age of 30 who really believes this to be true. After all, they got the same trophy as all the other players on the peewee soccer team did, even though they really sucked. And they got Bs on their report cards after their mom went to the school and got the Ds taken away. Its not their fault that their “degree” in fashion merchandising didn’t get them that job as a systems programmer or genetics researcher – the interviewer was old and envious of their youth and beauty….

There’s no motivation for people to get an education these days. College isn’t about getting yourself some skills that an employer might actually need and want. For many, it’s just a way to put off the real world for a few more years. Attitudes have changed markedly over the past 30 years: there’s no shame in not getting or keeping employment, and there’s no shame in seeking out and taking unending government assistance. Unfortunately, there always seems to be a government safety net in place for these people.

I hear what you’re saying about the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood you’ve chosen to adopt. I’ve tried to do the same, and it’s cheaper than Xanax (even if it doesn’t work as well). Gosh, I hope there’s a government mental health plan for that in the works.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu][quote=eavesdropper]Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?[/quote]

Um let me respond when I have more time. But I’ll say this

1) You wouldn’t want my job. Chances are you wouldn’t be able to hack it…. (no offense)..

2) I’ve been fortunate enough to have those folks that hold up the labor dispute signs up several times in front of some of the offices I visited. And I’ve always was curious what the deal was…The funny thing is that about 8 times out of 10, when I tried to talk to those folks with those signs, none of them new what they were picketing about..I won’t even go into the direction as to which language I had to use to try to carry a conversation, because that would be heresy to discuss…..So…. That goes back to my original point…Obviously, someone was hired to sit in and picket…Frankly, I’m all for workers rights and all, but let’s face it unions have overstepped their powers…There’s a huge disconnect between maltreatment of workers and what the gist of original unions stood for and what it currently is right now.. The later is borderline legalized extortion….When there are rules to move a computer or 2 boxes by “union workers” only, and it takes two weeks to have the job done…..something is seriously wrong….It’s completely illogical.

And spare me the argument about being outsourced if unions weren’t around. I deal with the threat of outsourcing every day. And I can tell you that if software code could only be written by rules that it takes each person could only write 200 lines of code per hour without being paid overtime and that it takes a minimum of 10 people to write 10000 lines, with 4 shift supervisors, and that every bug that was found or fixed would be an additional per “bug” count extra pay, I guarantee three things would have happened

1) My wallets would be much fatter than what they are now in the short term.
2) innovation would come to a grinding halt
3) 90% of all work would find it’s way overseas in less than 2 years..

BTW: Do you know what the majority of those protestors that hold up the signs are actually protesting? Just curious…[/quote]

Hell, no, I don’t know. What’s worse, neither do they, even when they ARE union workers. And that goes for most people protesting shit these days. Living here in the DC area, we get lots of opportunities to mingle with the masses at any number of protests. We ask people what the slogans on their signs mean, and they don’t have an answer. We ask them to provide us with an example of the violations they are claiming, and they don’t have an answer. We ask them how they would solve a problem that they claim has been ignored or exacerbated, and…they don’t have an answer. We ask them for evidence of actual skills and strengths and accomplishments by their chosen candidates, and guess what? They got nuthin’.

What they do have is a lot of piss and vinegar that’s been whipped up into a fine froth by politicians, pundits, talk radio hosts, and leaders of grass-roots-by-way-of- billionaire-businessmen organizations. What they’re quoting and what they’re carrying are little sound-bites that have been parceled out by their favorite “patriot”, not only can’t they understand and support it, but they don’t have the interest in making an effort to find out. So when some pesky “intellectectual elite” starts asking them questions, and popping off the stock sound bites doesn’t get them off your back, do you start asking some questions of your own, and maybe do some research? Nah, you simply walk away, and pretend that there aren’t any questions. That way, you can make sure you get to see who gets a rose tonight, or who gets thrown off the island, or who’s the surprise performer on “Dancing With the Stars”.

Does this bother them? Hell, no. After all, the newest political wildfire spreading across the plains is that education is overrated, and that the people with the education and the degrees and the experience aren’t really the smart guys after all.

You’re absolutely 100% correct, flu. There’s no resemblance to the unions of 100 years ago, and there hasn’t been for a very long time. When I grew up, I can’t tell you the number of families sat around without a paycheck, month after month, during prolonged strikes. Many of these were families with 5 or 7 or 10 kids. And they’d no sooner get a contract ratified, then they’d be out on strike again, and again. It wasn’t about better wages or working conditions. It was about petty power struggles by union leaders who couldn’t see the big picture (the effects of excessive labor costs and how they would eventually contribute to a mass exodus of manufacturing), or who simply didn’t care to (greed).

However, the human weaknesses that were responsible for the formation of the original unions are still alive and well, and the need for the unions is, also. However, I’m not at all sure that the union structure, as it stands today, is capable of doing the job they were set up to do. But you’re not going to be able to convince union members that they have to make some difficult choices in how their unions are structured, and what they need to be fighting for. There’s been too much emphasis in fighting for “now”, and pretty much none on the future. Again, it goes back to people just not caring enough to educate themselves about the choices they are making.

Today’s unions much more closely resemble today’s corporations. Watching the union guy on the Daily Show segment was illuminating: he was totally aware of what he was doing. He was simply shocked by the idea that, not only someone else had figured it out, but that they would call him on it.

You say that what unions do now is “borderline legalized extortion”. I think you are being generous. But if a need for change is not identified by the union members, and that change does not come from within, they’re in danger of losing everything.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu][quote=eavesdropper]Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?[/quote]

Um let me respond when I have more time. But I’ll say this

1) You wouldn’t want my job. Chances are you wouldn’t be able to hack it…. (no offense)..

2) I’ve been fortunate enough to have those folks that hold up the labor dispute signs up several times in front of some of the offices I visited. And I’ve always was curious what the deal was…The funny thing is that about 8 times out of 10, when I tried to talk to those folks with those signs, none of them new what they were picketing about..I won’t even go into the direction as to which language I had to use to try to carry a conversation, because that would be heresy to discuss…..So…. That goes back to my original point…Obviously, someone was hired to sit in and picket…Frankly, I’m all for workers rights and all, but let’s face it unions have overstepped their powers…There’s a huge disconnect between maltreatment of workers and what the gist of original unions stood for and what it currently is right now.. The later is borderline legalized extortion….When there are rules to move a computer or 2 boxes by “union workers” only, and it takes two weeks to have the job done…..something is seriously wrong….It’s completely illogical.

And spare me the argument about being outsourced if unions weren’t around. I deal with the threat of outsourcing every day. And I can tell you that if software code could only be written by rules that it takes each person could only write 200 lines of code per hour without being paid overtime and that it takes a minimum of 10 people to write 10000 lines, with 4 shift supervisors, and that every bug that was found or fixed would be an additional per “bug” count extra pay, I guarantee three things would have happened

1) My wallets would be much fatter than what they are now in the short term.
2) innovation would come to a grinding halt
3) 90% of all work would find it’s way overseas in less than 2 years..

BTW: Do you know what the majority of those protestors that hold up the signs are actually protesting? Just curious…[/quote]

Hell, no, I don’t know. What’s worse, neither do they, even when they ARE union workers. And that goes for most people protesting shit these days. Living here in the DC area, we get lots of opportunities to mingle with the masses at any number of protests. We ask people what the slogans on their signs mean, and they don’t have an answer. We ask them to provide us with an example of the violations they are claiming, and they don’t have an answer. We ask them how they would solve a problem that they claim has been ignored or exacerbated, and…they don’t have an answer. We ask them for evidence of actual skills and strengths and accomplishments by their chosen candidates, and guess what? They got nuthin’.

What they do have is a lot of piss and vinegar that’s been whipped up into a fine froth by politicians, pundits, talk radio hosts, and leaders of grass-roots-by-way-of- billionaire-businessmen organizations. What they’re quoting and what they’re carrying are little sound-bites that have been parceled out by their favorite “patriot”, not only can’t they understand and support it, but they don’t have the interest in making an effort to find out. So when some pesky “intellectectual elite” starts asking them questions, and popping off the stock sound bites doesn’t get them off your back, do you start asking some questions of your own, and maybe do some research? Nah, you simply walk away, and pretend that there aren’t any questions. That way, you can make sure you get to see who gets a rose tonight, or who gets thrown off the island, or who’s the surprise performer on “Dancing With the Stars”.

Does this bother them? Hell, no. After all, the newest political wildfire spreading across the plains is that education is overrated, and that the people with the education and the degrees and the experience aren’t really the smart guys after all.

You’re absolutely 100% correct, flu. There’s no resemblance to the unions of 100 years ago, and there hasn’t been for a very long time. When I grew up, I can’t tell you the number of families sat around without a paycheck, month after month, during prolonged strikes. Many of these were families with 5 or 7 or 10 kids. And they’d no sooner get a contract ratified, then they’d be out on strike again, and again. It wasn’t about better wages or working conditions. It was about petty power struggles by union leaders who couldn’t see the big picture (the effects of excessive labor costs and how they would eventually contribute to a mass exodus of manufacturing), or who simply didn’t care to (greed).

However, the human weaknesses that were responsible for the formation of the original unions are still alive and well, and the need for the unions is, also. However, I’m not at all sure that the union structure, as it stands today, is capable of doing the job they were set up to do. But you’re not going to be able to convince union members that they have to make some difficult choices in how their unions are structured, and what they need to be fighting for. There’s been too much emphasis in fighting for “now”, and pretty much none on the future. Again, it goes back to people just not caring enough to educate themselves about the choices they are making.

Today’s unions much more closely resemble today’s corporations. Watching the union guy on the Daily Show segment was illuminating: he was totally aware of what he was doing. He was simply shocked by the idea that, not only someone else had figured it out, but that they would call him on it.

You say that what unions do now is “borderline legalized extortion”. I think you are being generous. But if a need for change is not identified by the union members, and that change does not come from within, they’re in danger of losing everything.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu][quote=eavesdropper]Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?[/quote]

Um let me respond when I have more time. But I’ll say this

1) You wouldn’t want my job. Chances are you wouldn’t be able to hack it…. (no offense)..

2) I’ve been fortunate enough to have those folks that hold up the labor dispute signs up several times in front of some of the offices I visited. And I’ve always was curious what the deal was…The funny thing is that about 8 times out of 10, when I tried to talk to those folks with those signs, none of them new what they were picketing about..I won’t even go into the direction as to which language I had to use to try to carry a conversation, because that would be heresy to discuss…..So…. That goes back to my original point…Obviously, someone was hired to sit in and picket…Frankly, I’m all for workers rights and all, but let’s face it unions have overstepped their powers…There’s a huge disconnect between maltreatment of workers and what the gist of original unions stood for and what it currently is right now.. The later is borderline legalized extortion….When there are rules to move a computer or 2 boxes by “union workers” only, and it takes two weeks to have the job done…..something is seriously wrong….It’s completely illogical.

And spare me the argument about being outsourced if unions weren’t around. I deal with the threat of outsourcing every day. And I can tell you that if software code could only be written by rules that it takes each person could only write 200 lines of code per hour without being paid overtime and that it takes a minimum of 10 people to write 10000 lines, with 4 shift supervisors, and that every bug that was found or fixed would be an additional per “bug” count extra pay, I guarantee three things would have happened

1) My wallets would be much fatter than what they are now in the short term.
2) innovation would come to a grinding halt
3) 90% of all work would find it’s way overseas in less than 2 years..

BTW: Do you know what the majority of those protestors that hold up the signs are actually protesting? Just curious…[/quote]

Hell, no, I don’t know. What’s worse, neither do they, even when they ARE union workers. And that goes for most people protesting shit these days. Living here in the DC area, we get lots of opportunities to mingle with the masses at any number of protests. We ask people what the slogans on their signs mean, and they don’t have an answer. We ask them to provide us with an example of the violations they are claiming, and they don’t have an answer. We ask them how they would solve a problem that they claim has been ignored or exacerbated, and…they don’t have an answer. We ask them for evidence of actual skills and strengths and accomplishments by their chosen candidates, and guess what? They got nuthin’.

What they do have is a lot of piss and vinegar that’s been whipped up into a fine froth by politicians, pundits, talk radio hosts, and leaders of grass-roots-by-way-of- billionaire-businessmen organizations. What they’re quoting and what they’re carrying are little sound-bites that have been parceled out by their favorite “patriot”, not only can’t they understand and support it, but they don’t have the interest in making an effort to find out. So when some pesky “intellectectual elite” starts asking them questions, and popping off the stock sound bites doesn’t get them off your back, do you start asking some questions of your own, and maybe do some research? Nah, you simply walk away, and pretend that there aren’t any questions. That way, you can make sure you get to see who gets a rose tonight, or who gets thrown off the island, or who’s the surprise performer on “Dancing With the Stars”.

Does this bother them? Hell, no. After all, the newest political wildfire spreading across the plains is that education is overrated, and that the people with the education and the degrees and the experience aren’t really the smart guys after all.

You’re absolutely 100% correct, flu. There’s no resemblance to the unions of 100 years ago, and there hasn’t been for a very long time. When I grew up, I can’t tell you the number of families sat around without a paycheck, month after month, during prolonged strikes. Many of these were families with 5 or 7 or 10 kids. And they’d no sooner get a contract ratified, then they’d be out on strike again, and again. It wasn’t about better wages or working conditions. It was about petty power struggles by union leaders who couldn’t see the big picture (the effects of excessive labor costs and how they would eventually contribute to a mass exodus of manufacturing), or who simply didn’t care to (greed).

However, the human weaknesses that were responsible for the formation of the original unions are still alive and well, and the need for the unions is, also. However, I’m not at all sure that the union structure, as it stands today, is capable of doing the job they were set up to do. But you’re not going to be able to convince union members that they have to make some difficult choices in how their unions are structured, and what they need to be fighting for. There’s been too much emphasis in fighting for “now”, and pretty much none on the future. Again, it goes back to people just not caring enough to educate themselves about the choices they are making.

Today’s unions much more closely resemble today’s corporations. Watching the union guy on the Daily Show segment was illuminating: he was totally aware of what he was doing. He was simply shocked by the idea that, not only someone else had figured it out, but that they would call him on it.

You say that what unions do now is “borderline legalized extortion”. I think you are being generous. But if a need for change is not identified by the union members, and that change does not come from within, they’re in danger of losing everything.

[Author]

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