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eavesdropper
Participant[quote=ucodegen]I have covered the problem with eliminating the mortgage interest deduction. It won’t work. Only the rich will be able to work around it, the middle class will get screwed.
[quote FormerSanDiegan]What about the $70 Billion subsidies to big oil companies ?
Let’s cut that first.[/quote]Sounds like a good one to cut.[/quote]Agreed, ucodegen and FSD. It’s not that I disagree with the arguments that many are making. But, quite honestly, this is the only significant way that most Americans, even those earning very healthy incomes, can shelter it.
I agree that we, as Americans, should be willing to pay the costs of maintaining our nation’s health, safety, and stability. However, the Congress best get busy eliminating tax shelters and loopholes for wealthy corporations and individuals, of which there are an obscene abundance. And, no, I’m not referring to people making $250K/year as “wealthy”, for any reactionaries in the peanut gallery….
I’m perfectly willing to pay taxes on my entire income when corporations and the rich begin to do the same. Hell, at this point, I’d be happy if companies like Exxon and GE would pay corporate income tax on SOME of their profits.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Peggy Noonan had an excellent article in the WSJ on this as well: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vRyJ9rRDnsUJ:online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html+Apr%C3%A8s+le+D%C3%A9luge,+What%3F&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com%5B/quote%5D
Allan, Ms. Noonan’s article was refreshingly literate compared to several of the other examples presented thus far. But while she was restrained (see, conservatives utilize political correctness when it is expedient) in her language, it was fairly apparent that she, too, placed the blame for the London riots on lower class youth by her references to the Philly flash mobs, single mothers, and her quoting the Max Hastings piece that triggered this thread: “The depressing truth is that at the bottom of our society is a layer of young people with no skills, education, values or aspirations….”
Again, as I said in my earlier response to faterik, this is an across-the-classes exercise in destructive narcissism by the offspring of people who are likewise engaged in narcissistic self-focus: people who feel robbed of what they believe themselves to be entitled, and who regularly lash out (online, of course) at those who robbed them.
Ms. Noonan opines: “At fault in the riots were the distorting effects of the welfare state and a degenerate British popular culture: “A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice.” Much of what they have is provided by others, but they are not grateful: dependency doesn’t encourage gratitude but resentment.” The major problem in her statement is that this isn’t true only of recipients of government largesse. The rioting included people of ALL classes. The middle- and upper-classes have raised their children according to the same philosophy: their kids don’t need to show respect, or obey their parents or superiors, or perform tasks in return for money, or study to get good grades. These upper-class kids may not be dependent on the government, but they are just as dependent on their parents, and just as worthless and potentially destructive to society. This isn’t a matter of social and economic class, but a matter of raising ALL of our children in a way that ensures they will be hard-working, honest, ethical adults who recognize their duty to their family, their country, and their fellow man. And that isn’t going to happen in a nation that practices much of what Ms. Noonan and/or her party teach.
For instance, she took the opportunity to rail against single-parent households. Not only is that a slap in the face to every single parent out there who is not single by choice, but who is still managing to raise respectful, hard-working, accomplished kids – and Ms. Noonan should really make the effort to check out the stats on that. But I haven’t heard Ms. Noonan loudly promoting the teaching of sex education in schools, or the availability of birth control resources to sexually active teens, or protesting the closing of Planned Parenthood clinics. Her party continues to push the idyllic image of heterosexual couples having children, implying that marriage without children is not a valid choice. All of these contribute to the creation of children that no one wants to take the time and effort to raise properly. She expects parents of these 16 and 18 and 20 year-old kids to make them stay home? Yeah, right! These are the same parents that couldn’t say “no” to their kids when they were 3 and 4 years old.
So, while I admire Ms. Noonan tremendously as a speaker and writer (don’t always agree, but do admire), I believe that she missed the mark here. And if people in her position don’t begin to speak out on the falsehoods, the bigotry, the insults, and, in general, the hate speech being dispersed in the name of patriotism, we’ll be in much worse shape than the people of London.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Peggy Noonan had an excellent article in the WSJ on this as well: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vRyJ9rRDnsUJ:online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html+Apr%C3%A8s+le+D%C3%A9luge,+What%3F&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com%5B/quote%5D
Allan, Ms. Noonan’s article was refreshingly literate compared to several of the other examples presented thus far. But while she was restrained (see, conservatives utilize political correctness when it is expedient) in her language, it was fairly apparent that she, too, placed the blame for the London riots on lower class youth by her references to the Philly flash mobs, single mothers, and her quoting the Max Hastings piece that triggered this thread: “The depressing truth is that at the bottom of our society is a layer of young people with no skills, education, values or aspirations….”
Again, as I said in my earlier response to faterik, this is an across-the-classes exercise in destructive narcissism by the offspring of people who are likewise engaged in narcissistic self-focus: people who feel robbed of what they believe themselves to be entitled, and who regularly lash out (online, of course) at those who robbed them.
Ms. Noonan opines: “At fault in the riots were the distorting effects of the welfare state and a degenerate British popular culture: “A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice.” Much of what they have is provided by others, but they are not grateful: dependency doesn’t encourage gratitude but resentment.” The major problem in her statement is that this isn’t true only of recipients of government largesse. The rioting included people of ALL classes. The middle- and upper-classes have raised their children according to the same philosophy: their kids don’t need to show respect, or obey their parents or superiors, or perform tasks in return for money, or study to get good grades. These upper-class kids may not be dependent on the government, but they are just as dependent on their parents, and just as worthless and potentially destructive to society. This isn’t a matter of social and economic class, but a matter of raising ALL of our children in a way that ensures they will be hard-working, honest, ethical adults who recognize their duty to their family, their country, and their fellow man. And that isn’t going to happen in a nation that practices much of what Ms. Noonan and/or her party teach.
For instance, she took the opportunity to rail against single-parent households. Not only is that a slap in the face to every single parent out there who is not single by choice, but who is still managing to raise respectful, hard-working, accomplished kids – and Ms. Noonan should really make the effort to check out the stats on that. But I haven’t heard Ms. Noonan loudly promoting the teaching of sex education in schools, or the availability of birth control resources to sexually active teens, or protesting the closing of Planned Parenthood clinics. Her party continues to push the idyllic image of heterosexual couples having children, implying that marriage without children is not a valid choice. All of these contribute to the creation of children that no one wants to take the time and effort to raise properly. She expects parents of these 16 and 18 and 20 year-old kids to make them stay home? Yeah, right! These are the same parents that couldn’t say “no” to their kids when they were 3 and 4 years old.
So, while I admire Ms. Noonan tremendously as a speaker and writer (don’t always agree, but do admire), I believe that she missed the mark here. And if people in her position don’t begin to speak out on the falsehoods, the bigotry, the insults, and, in general, the hate speech being dispersed in the name of patriotism, we’ll be in much worse shape than the people of London.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Peggy Noonan had an excellent article in the WSJ on this as well: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vRyJ9rRDnsUJ:online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html+Apr%C3%A8s+le+D%C3%A9luge,+What%3F&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com%5B/quote%5D
Allan, Ms. Noonan’s article was refreshingly literate compared to several of the other examples presented thus far. But while she was restrained (see, conservatives utilize political correctness when it is expedient) in her language, it was fairly apparent that she, too, placed the blame for the London riots on lower class youth by her references to the Philly flash mobs, single mothers, and her quoting the Max Hastings piece that triggered this thread: “The depressing truth is that at the bottom of our society is a layer of young people with no skills, education, values or aspirations….”
Again, as I said in my earlier response to faterik, this is an across-the-classes exercise in destructive narcissism by the offspring of people who are likewise engaged in narcissistic self-focus: people who feel robbed of what they believe themselves to be entitled, and who regularly lash out (online, of course) at those who robbed them.
Ms. Noonan opines: “At fault in the riots were the distorting effects of the welfare state and a degenerate British popular culture: “A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice.” Much of what they have is provided by others, but they are not grateful: dependency doesn’t encourage gratitude but resentment.” The major problem in her statement is that this isn’t true only of recipients of government largesse. The rioting included people of ALL classes. The middle- and upper-classes have raised their children according to the same philosophy: their kids don’t need to show respect, or obey their parents or superiors, or perform tasks in return for money, or study to get good grades. These upper-class kids may not be dependent on the government, but they are just as dependent on their parents, and just as worthless and potentially destructive to society. This isn’t a matter of social and economic class, but a matter of raising ALL of our children in a way that ensures they will be hard-working, honest, ethical adults who recognize their duty to their family, their country, and their fellow man. And that isn’t going to happen in a nation that practices much of what Ms. Noonan and/or her party teach.
For instance, she took the opportunity to rail against single-parent households. Not only is that a slap in the face to every single parent out there who is not single by choice, but who is still managing to raise respectful, hard-working, accomplished kids – and Ms. Noonan should really make the effort to check out the stats on that. But I haven’t heard Ms. Noonan loudly promoting the teaching of sex education in schools, or the availability of birth control resources to sexually active teens, or protesting the closing of Planned Parenthood clinics. Her party continues to push the idyllic image of heterosexual couples having children, implying that marriage without children is not a valid choice. All of these contribute to the creation of children that no one wants to take the time and effort to raise properly. She expects parents of these 16 and 18 and 20 year-old kids to make them stay home? Yeah, right! These are the same parents that couldn’t say “no” to their kids when they were 3 and 4 years old.
So, while I admire Ms. Noonan tremendously as a speaker and writer (don’t always agree, but do admire), I believe that she missed the mark here. And if people in her position don’t begin to speak out on the falsehoods, the bigotry, the insults, and, in general, the hate speech being dispersed in the name of patriotism, we’ll be in much worse shape than the people of London.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Peggy Noonan had an excellent article in the WSJ on this as well: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vRyJ9rRDnsUJ:online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html+Apr%C3%A8s+le+D%C3%A9luge,+What%3F&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com%5B/quote%5D
Allan, Ms. Noonan’s article was refreshingly literate compared to several of the other examples presented thus far. But while she was restrained (see, conservatives utilize political correctness when it is expedient) in her language, it was fairly apparent that she, too, placed the blame for the London riots on lower class youth by her references to the Philly flash mobs, single mothers, and her quoting the Max Hastings piece that triggered this thread: “The depressing truth is that at the bottom of our society is a layer of young people with no skills, education, values or aspirations….”
Again, as I said in my earlier response to faterik, this is an across-the-classes exercise in destructive narcissism by the offspring of people who are likewise engaged in narcissistic self-focus: people who feel robbed of what they believe themselves to be entitled, and who regularly lash out (online, of course) at those who robbed them.
Ms. Noonan opines: “At fault in the riots were the distorting effects of the welfare state and a degenerate British popular culture: “A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice.” Much of what they have is provided by others, but they are not grateful: dependency doesn’t encourage gratitude but resentment.” The major problem in her statement is that this isn’t true only of recipients of government largesse. The rioting included people of ALL classes. The middle- and upper-classes have raised their children according to the same philosophy: their kids don’t need to show respect, or obey their parents or superiors, or perform tasks in return for money, or study to get good grades. These upper-class kids may not be dependent on the government, but they are just as dependent on their parents, and just as worthless and potentially destructive to society. This isn’t a matter of social and economic class, but a matter of raising ALL of our children in a way that ensures they will be hard-working, honest, ethical adults who recognize their duty to their family, their country, and their fellow man. And that isn’t going to happen in a nation that practices much of what Ms. Noonan and/or her party teach.
For instance, she took the opportunity to rail against single-parent households. Not only is that a slap in the face to every single parent out there who is not single by choice, but who is still managing to raise respectful, hard-working, accomplished kids – and Ms. Noonan should really make the effort to check out the stats on that. But I haven’t heard Ms. Noonan loudly promoting the teaching of sex education in schools, or the availability of birth control resources to sexually active teens, or protesting the closing of Planned Parenthood clinics. Her party continues to push the idyllic image of heterosexual couples having children, implying that marriage without children is not a valid choice. All of these contribute to the creation of children that no one wants to take the time and effort to raise properly. She expects parents of these 16 and 18 and 20 year-old kids to make them stay home? Yeah, right! These are the same parents that couldn’t say “no” to their kids when they were 3 and 4 years old.
So, while I admire Ms. Noonan tremendously as a speaker and writer (don’t always agree, but do admire), I believe that she missed the mark here. And if people in her position don’t begin to speak out on the falsehoods, the bigotry, the insults, and, in general, the hate speech being dispersed in the name of patriotism, we’ll be in much worse shape than the people of London.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Peggy Noonan had an excellent article in the WSJ on this as well: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vRyJ9rRDnsUJ:online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html+Apr%C3%A8s+le+D%C3%A9luge,+What%3F&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com%5B/quote%5D
Allan, Ms. Noonan’s article was refreshingly literate compared to several of the other examples presented thus far. But while she was restrained (see, conservatives utilize political correctness when it is expedient) in her language, it was fairly apparent that she, too, placed the blame for the London riots on lower class youth by her references to the Philly flash mobs, single mothers, and her quoting the Max Hastings piece that triggered this thread: “The depressing truth is that at the bottom of our society is a layer of young people with no skills, education, values or aspirations….”
Again, as I said in my earlier response to faterik, this is an across-the-classes exercise in destructive narcissism by the offspring of people who are likewise engaged in narcissistic self-focus: people who feel robbed of what they believe themselves to be entitled, and who regularly lash out (online, of course) at those who robbed them.
Ms. Noonan opines: “At fault in the riots were the distorting effects of the welfare state and a degenerate British popular culture: “A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice.” Much of what they have is provided by others, but they are not grateful: dependency doesn’t encourage gratitude but resentment.” The major problem in her statement is that this isn’t true only of recipients of government largesse. The rioting included people of ALL classes. The middle- and upper-classes have raised their children according to the same philosophy: their kids don’t need to show respect, or obey their parents or superiors, or perform tasks in return for money, or study to get good grades. These upper-class kids may not be dependent on the government, but they are just as dependent on their parents, and just as worthless and potentially destructive to society. This isn’t a matter of social and economic class, but a matter of raising ALL of our children in a way that ensures they will be hard-working, honest, ethical adults who recognize their duty to their family, their country, and their fellow man. And that isn’t going to happen in a nation that practices much of what Ms. Noonan and/or her party teach.
For instance, she took the opportunity to rail against single-parent households. Not only is that a slap in the face to every single parent out there who is not single by choice, but who is still managing to raise respectful, hard-working, accomplished kids – and Ms. Noonan should really make the effort to check out the stats on that. But I haven’t heard Ms. Noonan loudly promoting the teaching of sex education in schools, or the availability of birth control resources to sexually active teens, or protesting the closing of Planned Parenthood clinics. Her party continues to push the idyllic image of heterosexual couples having children, implying that marriage without children is not a valid choice. All of these contribute to the creation of children that no one wants to take the time and effort to raise properly. She expects parents of these 16 and 18 and 20 year-old kids to make them stay home? Yeah, right! These are the same parents that couldn’t say “no” to their kids when they were 3 and 4 years old.
So, while I admire Ms. Noonan tremendously as a speaker and writer (don’t always agree, but do admire), I believe that she missed the mark here. And if people in her position don’t begin to speak out on the falsehoods, the bigotry, the insults, and, in general, the hate speech being dispersed in the name of patriotism, we’ll be in much worse shape than the people of London.
Participant[quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Faterik, instead of continuing to search for more versions of the same inflammatory article that you can link to this thread, why don’t you just go off somewhere and – oh, I don’t know….. Perhaps read “Lord of the Flies”?
Otherwise, please provide us with a point-by-point summation of the qualities that establish it as “great”. Because I’m not getting it.
While I can agree with a few of the things this guy says, again he blames government programs that promote dependency, i.e., he’s laying responsibility for the riots entirely on the shoulders of the poor. There’s been plenty of evidence to support the fact that this was a mixed-class crowd.
And while I was momentarily impressed that this was not another journalistic gem from the Daily Mail, my euphoria lessened considerably when I reached the bottom of page 1, and there was Mr. Steyn boasting that he was able to counter a television show guest with a real-life example of atrocious misappropriation of funds by the British government. So appalled was Mr. Steyn by this shocking tale of waste that he felt compelled to include it in his latest book for concerned conservatives.
I’m willing to bet that the examples in Mr. Steyn’s books are short on reference-accompanied citations. However, even if I am mistaken, I would question its inclusion. Mr. Steyn lifted his sordid tale straight off the yellow pages of – yes! – the Daily Mail, a publication not exactly known for getting its details or facts straight. In fact, the Daily Mail regularly inserts stories that have been “edited” in order to incite, and raise the level of, anger in its readers. In many instances, it has fabricated stories to achieve this. I’d be willing to wager that the exaggerations and falsehoods in this story far outweigh any truths.
Tell me again, faterik (in fact, I don’t remember being told the first time), what these newspaper articles add to the dialogue? While I agree that we have a younger generation who appears devoid of the barest trace of social graces, I’m not sure what the excuse of the older generation is when I look at commentary left in chatrooms and message boards of all kinds, particularly those of far right “political” content (my own opinion is that politics is just another excuse for many people to express hate and bitterness). These people use articles like those regularly dispensed by the Daily Mail, and recycled by “writers” like Mr. Steyn, to “confirm” the validity of their distorted views to each other. When their parents are choosing to immerse themselves in a self-created online world of bitterness, bigotry, and hate, where are their offspring going to acquire qualities such as grace and kindness and honesty?
Just asking.
Participant[quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Faterik, instead of continuing to search for more versions of the same inflammatory article that you can link to this thread, why don’t you just go off somewhere and – oh, I don’t know….. Perhaps read “Lord of the Flies”?
Otherwise, please provide us with a point-by-point summation of the qualities that establish it as “great”. Because I’m not getting it.
While I can agree with a few of the things this guy says, again he blames government programs that promote dependency, i.e., he’s laying responsibility for the riots entirely on the shoulders of the poor. There’s been plenty of evidence to support the fact that this was a mixed-class crowd.
And while I was momentarily impressed that this was not another journalistic gem from the Daily Mail, my euphoria lessened considerably when I reached the bottom of page 1, and there was Mr. Steyn boasting that he was able to counter a television show guest with a real-life example of atrocious misappropriation of funds by the British government. So appalled was Mr. Steyn by this shocking tale of waste that he felt compelled to include it in his latest book for concerned conservatives.
I’m willing to bet that the examples in Mr. Steyn’s books are short on reference-accompanied citations. However, even if I am mistaken, I would question its inclusion. Mr. Steyn lifted his sordid tale straight off the yellow pages of – yes! – the Daily Mail, a publication not exactly known for getting its details or facts straight. In fact, the Daily Mail regularly inserts stories that have been “edited” in order to incite, and raise the level of, anger in its readers. In many instances, it has fabricated stories to achieve this. I’d be willing to wager that the exaggerations and falsehoods in this story far outweigh any truths.
Tell me again, faterik (in fact, I don’t remember being told the first time), what these newspaper articles add to the dialogue? While I agree that we have a younger generation who appears devoid of the barest trace of social graces, I’m not sure what the excuse of the older generation is when I look at commentary left in chatrooms and message boards of all kinds, particularly those of far right “political” content (my own opinion is that politics is just another excuse for many people to express hate and bitterness). These people use articles like those regularly dispensed by the Daily Mail, and recycled by “writers” like Mr. Steyn, to “confirm” the validity of their distorted views to each other. When their parents are choosing to immerse themselves in a self-created online world of bitterness, bigotry, and hate, where are their offspring going to acquire qualities such as grace and kindness and honesty?
Just asking.
Participant[quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Faterik, instead of continuing to search for more versions of the same inflammatory article that you can link to this thread, why don’t you just go off somewhere and – oh, I don’t know….. Perhaps read “Lord of the Flies”?
Otherwise, please provide us with a point-by-point summation of the qualities that establish it as “great”. Because I’m not getting it.
While I can agree with a few of the things this guy says, again he blames government programs that promote dependency, i.e., he’s laying responsibility for the riots entirely on the shoulders of the poor. There’s been plenty of evidence to support the fact that this was a mixed-class crowd.
And while I was momentarily impressed that this was not another journalistic gem from the Daily Mail, my euphoria lessened considerably when I reached the bottom of page 1, and there was Mr. Steyn boasting that he was able to counter a television show guest with a real-life example of atrocious misappropriation of funds by the British government. So appalled was Mr. Steyn by this shocking tale of waste that he felt compelled to include it in his latest book for concerned conservatives.
I’m willing to bet that the examples in Mr. Steyn’s books are short on reference-accompanied citations. However, even if I am mistaken, I would question its inclusion. Mr. Steyn lifted his sordid tale straight off the yellow pages of – yes! – the Daily Mail, a publication not exactly known for getting its details or facts straight. In fact, the Daily Mail regularly inserts stories that have been “edited” in order to incite, and raise the level of, anger in its readers. In many instances, it has fabricated stories to achieve this. I’d be willing to wager that the exaggerations and falsehoods in this story far outweigh any truths.
Tell me again, faterik (in fact, I don’t remember being told the first time), what these newspaper articles add to the dialogue? While I agree that we have a younger generation who appears devoid of the barest trace of social graces, I’m not sure what the excuse of the older generation is when I look at commentary left in chatrooms and message boards of all kinds, particularly those of far right “political” content (my own opinion is that politics is just another excuse for many people to express hate and bitterness). These people use articles like those regularly dispensed by the Daily Mail, and recycled by “writers” like Mr. Steyn, to “confirm” the validity of their distorted views to each other. When their parents are choosing to immerse themselves in a self-created online world of bitterness, bigotry, and hate, where are their offspring going to acquire qualities such as grace and kindness and honesty?
Just asking.
Participant[quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Faterik, instead of continuing to search for more versions of the same inflammatory article that you can link to this thread, why don’t you just go off somewhere and – oh, I don’t know….. Perhaps read “Lord of the Flies”?
Otherwise, please provide us with a point-by-point summation of the qualities that establish it as “great”. Because I’m not getting it.
While I can agree with a few of the things this guy says, again he blames government programs that promote dependency, i.e., he’s laying responsibility for the riots entirely on the shoulders of the poor. There’s been plenty of evidence to support the fact that this was a mixed-class crowd.
And while I was momentarily impressed that this was not another journalistic gem from the Daily Mail, my euphoria lessened considerably when I reached the bottom of page 1, and there was Mr. Steyn boasting that he was able to counter a television show guest with a real-life example of atrocious misappropriation of funds by the British government. So appalled was Mr. Steyn by this shocking tale of waste that he felt compelled to include it in his latest book for concerned conservatives.
I’m willing to bet that the examples in Mr. Steyn’s books are short on reference-accompanied citations. However, even if I am mistaken, I would question its inclusion. Mr. Steyn lifted his sordid tale straight off the yellow pages of – yes! – the Daily Mail, a publication not exactly known for getting its details or facts straight. In fact, the Daily Mail regularly inserts stories that have been “edited” in order to incite, and raise the level of, anger in its readers. In many instances, it has fabricated stories to achieve this. I’d be willing to wager that the exaggerations and falsehoods in this story far outweigh any truths.
Tell me again, faterik (in fact, I don’t remember being told the first time), what these newspaper articles add to the dialogue? While I agree that we have a younger generation who appears devoid of the barest trace of social graces, I’m not sure what the excuse of the older generation is when I look at commentary left in chatrooms and message boards of all kinds, particularly those of far right “political” content (my own opinion is that politics is just another excuse for many people to express hate and bitterness). These people use articles like those regularly dispensed by the Daily Mail, and recycled by “writers” like Mr. Steyn, to “confirm” the validity of their distorted views to each other. When their parents are choosing to immerse themselves in a self-created online world of bitterness, bigotry, and hate, where are their offspring going to acquire qualities such as grace and kindness and honesty?
Just asking.
Participant[quote=faterikcartman]Another great Steyn article and another reference to Lord of the Flies.
Faterik, instead of continuing to search for more versions of the same inflammatory article that you can link to this thread, why don’t you just go off somewhere and – oh, I don’t know….. Perhaps read “Lord of the Flies”?
Otherwise, please provide us with a point-by-point summation of the qualities that establish it as “great”. Because I’m not getting it.
While I can agree with a few of the things this guy says, again he blames government programs that promote dependency, i.e., he’s laying responsibility for the riots entirely on the shoulders of the poor. There’s been plenty of evidence to support the fact that this was a mixed-class crowd.
And while I was momentarily impressed that this was not another journalistic gem from the Daily Mail, my euphoria lessened considerably when I reached the bottom of page 1, and there was Mr. Steyn boasting that he was able to counter a television show guest with a real-life example of atrocious misappropriation of funds by the British government. So appalled was Mr. Steyn by this shocking tale of waste that he felt compelled to include it in his latest book for concerned conservatives.
I’m willing to bet that the examples in Mr. Steyn’s books are short on reference-accompanied citations. However, even if I am mistaken, I would question its inclusion. Mr. Steyn lifted his sordid tale straight off the yellow pages of – yes! – the Daily Mail, a publication not exactly known for getting its details or facts straight. In fact, the Daily Mail regularly inserts stories that have been “edited” in order to incite, and raise the level of, anger in its readers. In many instances, it has fabricated stories to achieve this. I’d be willing to wager that the exaggerations and falsehoods in this story far outweigh any truths.
Tell me again, faterik (in fact, I don’t remember being told the first time), what these newspaper articles add to the dialogue? While I agree that we have a younger generation who appears devoid of the barest trace of social graces, I’m not sure what the excuse of the older generation is when I look at commentary left in chatrooms and message boards of all kinds, particularly those of far right “political” content (my own opinion is that politics is just another excuse for many people to express hate and bitterness). These people use articles like those regularly dispensed by the Daily Mail, and recycled by “writers” like Mr. Steyn, to “confirm” the validity of their distorted views to each other. When their parents are choosing to immerse themselves in a self-created online world of bitterness, bigotry, and hate, where are their offspring going to acquire qualities such as grace and kindness and honesty?
Just asking.
Participant[quote=briansd1][quote=eavesdropper]
Thanks for the kind words, KIBU. I do find the continuous accusation that the MSM “suppresses” news that is “unfavorable to liberals” or “favorable to conservatives” quite disturbing. The spreading of this falsehood by vested interests, and its uptake by their followers has led to the current reality that people are creating their own “alternate realities” from rumors that are passed from one source to another, and then complaining that the press is suppressing the “true story”.
When I evaluate the profound change that has taken place in our culture over the past 15 years, I am shocked and saddened by what we have allowed to slip away, and by what we have helped to develop in its place.[/quote]
eavesdropper, did you also notice that those same people who despise the MSM are people who long for the good ‘ol days of the 1950s when the 3 big broadcast networks were exclusive source of news for most Americans?
[/quote]I had, indeed, brian. In fact, I’ve noticed, for several years now, the emphasis on image in far right politics. That sounds ridiculous, because politics is all image, all the time. But there really is this need to turn everything and everyone into this fantasy “Pleasantville” scenario.
I really have to laugh when people send me emails that have a list of what is supposed to be the realities of today compared with our existence in the 1950s. And they’ll add a little note about how wonderful they were, and everybody was prosperous and happy, and how we took our Constitutional freedoms for granted.
I always respond with a note that points out that some Americans don’t recall the 1950s in precisely the same way, and I insert the famous photos of African-American citizens being assaulted by police with fire hoses, or beaten by crowds as the local sheriff looks on from the side. For particularly persistent relatives, I include an autopsy photo of Emmett Till.
Participant[quote=briansd1][quote=eavesdropper]
Thanks for the kind words, KIBU. I do find the continuous accusation that the MSM “suppresses” news that is “unfavorable to liberals” or “favorable to conservatives” quite disturbing. The spreading of this falsehood by vested interests, and its uptake by their followers has led to the current reality that people are creating their own “alternate realities” from rumors that are passed from one source to another, and then complaining that the press is suppressing the “true story”.
When I evaluate the profound change that has taken place in our culture over the past 15 years, I am shocked and saddened by what we have allowed to slip away, and by what we have helped to develop in its place.[/quote]
eavesdropper, did you also notice that those same people who despise the MSM are people who long for the good ‘ol days of the 1950s when the 3 big broadcast networks were exclusive source of news for most Americans?
[/quote]I had, indeed, brian. In fact, I’ve noticed, for several years now, the emphasis on image in far right politics. That sounds ridiculous, because politics is all image, all the time. But there really is this need to turn everything and everyone into this fantasy “Pleasantville” scenario.
I really have to laugh when people send me emails that have a list of what is supposed to be the realities of today compared with our existence in the 1950s. And they’ll add a little note about how wonderful they were, and everybody was prosperous and happy, and how we took our Constitutional freedoms for granted.
I always respond with a note that points out that some Americans don’t recall the 1950s in precisely the same way, and I insert the famous photos of African-American citizens being assaulted by police with fire hoses, or beaten by crowds as the local sheriff looks on from the side. For particularly persistent relatives, I include an autopsy photo of Emmett Till.
Participant[quote=briansd1][quote=eavesdropper]
Thanks for the kind words, KIBU. I do find the continuous accusation that the MSM “suppresses” news that is “unfavorable to liberals” or “favorable to conservatives” quite disturbing. The spreading of this falsehood by vested interests, and its uptake by their followers has led to the current reality that people are creating their own “alternate realities” from rumors that are passed from one source to another, and then complaining that the press is suppressing the “true story”.
When I evaluate the profound change that has taken place in our culture over the past 15 years, I am shocked and saddened by what we have allowed to slip away, and by what we have helped to develop in its place.[/quote]
eavesdropper, did you also notice that those same people who despise the MSM are people who long for the good ‘ol days of the 1950s when the 3 big broadcast networks were exclusive source of news for most Americans?
[/quote]I had, indeed, brian. In fact, I’ve noticed, for several years now, the emphasis on image in far right politics. That sounds ridiculous, because politics is all image, all the time. But there really is this need to turn everything and everyone into this fantasy “Pleasantville” scenario.
I really have to laugh when people send me emails that have a list of what is supposed to be the realities of today compared with our existence in the 1950s. And they’ll add a little note about how wonderful they were, and everybody was prosperous and happy, and how we took our Constitutional freedoms for granted.
I always respond with a note that points out that some Americans don’t recall the 1950s in precisely the same way, and I insert the famous photos of African-American citizens being assaulted by police with fire hoses, or beaten by crowds as the local sheriff looks on from the side. For particularly persistent relatives, I include an autopsy photo of Emmett Till.
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