[DWCAP]

[quote=poorgradstudent]There is no one real source of blame for the housing bubble and financial crisis. There were people who could have done something to stop it (Clinton and Bush administrations, Congress (either party at various points in time), Greenspan). There were regulatory agencies with no teeth that set policies in place that encouraged banks to make risky loans. There were homebuyers that stated more income than they made, and banks that didn’t bother checking those claims. There were some very smart math nerds at banks that made a very fatal error when averaging out risk, ignoring the possibility of systemic risk.

This is what makes it so frustrating for the average american. There’s no easy scapegoat. It’s easy to paint your own personal politics onto it. Republicans can blame Fannie, Freddie, the Democrats and poor people. Democrats can blame Bush, the Big Banks, Republicans, and individual greed. The truth is a lot of people screwed up.[/quote]

+1. You summed up what I was trying to write very well. I still to this day dont understand why Americans cant seem to grasp the idea that sometimes everyone involved is to blaim. That sometimes it isnt evil people doing nafarious deeds, but rather alot of good people doing stupid things.

[DWCAP]

[quote=poorgradstudent]There is no one real source of blame for the housing bubble and financial crisis. There were people who could have done something to stop it (Clinton and Bush administrations, Congress (either party at various points in time), Greenspan). There were regulatory agencies with no teeth that set policies in place that encouraged banks to make risky loans. There were homebuyers that stated more income than they made, and banks that didn’t bother checking those claims. There were some very smart math nerds at banks that made a very fatal error when averaging out risk, ignoring the possibility of systemic risk.

This is what makes it so frustrating for the average american. There’s no easy scapegoat. It’s easy to paint your own personal politics onto it. Republicans can blame Fannie, Freddie, the Democrats and poor people. Democrats can blame Bush, the Big Banks, Republicans, and individual greed. The truth is a lot of people screwed up.[/quote]

+1. You summed up what I was trying to write very well. I still to this day dont understand why Americans cant seem to grasp the idea that sometimes everyone involved is to blaim. That sometimes it isnt evil people doing nafarious deeds, but rather alot of good people doing stupid things.

[DWCAP]

[quote=garysears]I agree that excessive speed can kill but it isn’t the main issue. The main issue is that idiot not paying attention who is about to do something irrational, for whom looking down the road is not the #1 priority. Driving slower wouldn’t necessarily mean fewer accidents. There are a ridiculous number of fender benders in stop and go traffic.

Most speed limits are overly conservative because they account for worst case scenarious with a HUGE margin thrown in. The fact is driving is really too easy. I am a more dangerous driver when I am mindlesslessly driving along on the interstate at 60mph because I go off into a daydream out of boredom. That lack of awareness is what kills.

Speed limits and fines are nothing more than a revenue generator for the state. They are set in such a way to really hamper the way the majority of the people would normally, safely operate vehicles. That restriction is why people resent and don’t respect speed limits. Fines don’t change behavior and frankly moderate speeding isn’t dangerous. It is more about relative speed (faster or even worse slower).

I think a better method of reducing accidents would be to just hold people accountable for failures. Absolutely hammer people at fault for any accident, no matter how minor. I’m talking several thousand dollar fine for a fender bender. Maybe license suspension/revocation if you are at fault in an accident. That incentive would make people pay attention and reduce fatalities while freeing drivers from the heavy hand of our nanny state.[/quote]

While I see some of what you say about speed limits/state income, I tend to disagree that nailing people to the wall for accidents would reduce accidents. We nail people for drunk driving, and yet people still drive drunk. It isnt even an education thing, cause there is drunk driving education/warnings all over the freaking place. We know it is wrong, we know it is dangerous, and yet we still do it. The only thing nailing people for every little in infraction would do effectivly is increase the number of people leaving the site of an accident.

[DWCAP]

[quote=garysears]I agree that excessive speed can kill but it isn’t the main issue. The main issue is that idiot not paying attention who is about to do something irrational, for whom looking down the road is not the #1 priority. Driving slower wouldn’t necessarily mean fewer accidents. There are a ridiculous number of fender benders in stop and go traffic.

Most speed limits are overly conservative because they account for worst case scenarious with a HUGE margin thrown in. The fact is driving is really too easy. I am a more dangerous driver when I am mindlesslessly driving along on the interstate at 60mph because I go off into a daydream out of boredom. That lack of awareness is what kills.

Speed limits and fines are nothing more than a revenue generator for the state. They are set in such a way to really hamper the way the majority of the people would normally, safely operate vehicles. That restriction is why people resent and don’t respect speed limits. Fines don’t change behavior and frankly moderate speeding isn’t dangerous. It is more about relative speed (faster or even worse slower).

I think a better method of reducing accidents would be to just hold people accountable for failures. Absolutely hammer people at fault for any accident, no matter how minor. I’m talking several thousand dollar fine for a fender bender. Maybe license suspension/revocation if you are at fault in an accident. That incentive would make people pay attention and reduce fatalities while freeing drivers from the heavy hand of our nanny state.[/quote]

While I see some of what you say about speed limits/state income, I tend to disagree that nailing people to the wall for accidents would reduce accidents. We nail people for drunk driving, and yet people still drive drunk. It isnt even an education thing, cause there is drunk driving education/warnings all over the freaking place. We know it is wrong, we know it is dangerous, and yet we still do it. The only thing nailing people for every little in infraction would do effectivly is increase the number of people leaving the site of an accident.

[DWCAP]

[quote=garysears]I agree that excessive speed can kill but it isn’t the main issue. The main issue is that idiot not paying attention who is about to do something irrational, for whom looking down the road is not the #1 priority. Driving slower wouldn’t necessarily mean fewer accidents. There are a ridiculous number of fender benders in stop and go traffic.

Most speed limits are overly conservative because they account for worst case scenarious with a HUGE margin thrown in. The fact is driving is really too easy. I am a more dangerous driver when I am mindlesslessly driving along on the interstate at 60mph because I go off into a daydream out of boredom. That lack of awareness is what kills.

Speed limits and fines are nothing more than a revenue generator for the state. They are set in such a way to really hamper the way the majority of the people would normally, safely operate vehicles. That restriction is why people resent and don’t respect speed limits. Fines don’t change behavior and frankly moderate speeding isn’t dangerous. It is more about relative speed (faster or even worse slower).

I think a better method of reducing accidents would be to just hold people accountable for failures. Absolutely hammer people at fault for any accident, no matter how minor. I’m talking several thousand dollar fine for a fender bender. Maybe license suspension/revocation if you are at fault in an accident. That incentive would make people pay attention and reduce fatalities while freeing drivers from the heavy hand of our nanny state.[/quote]

While I see some of what you say about speed limits/state income, I tend to disagree that nailing people to the wall for accidents would reduce accidents. We nail people for drunk driving, and yet people still drive drunk. It isnt even an education thing, cause there is drunk driving education/warnings all over the freaking place. We know it is wrong, we know it is dangerous, and yet we still do it. The only thing nailing people for every little in infraction would do effectivly is increase the number of people leaving the site of an accident.

[DWCAP]

[quote=garysears]I agree that excessive speed can kill but it isn’t the main issue. The main issue is that idiot not paying attention who is about to do something irrational, for whom looking down the road is not the #1 priority. Driving slower wouldn’t necessarily mean fewer accidents. There are a ridiculous number of fender benders in stop and go traffic.

Most speed limits are overly conservative because they account for worst case scenarious with a HUGE margin thrown in. The fact is driving is really too easy. I am a more dangerous driver when I am mindlesslessly driving along on the interstate at 60mph because I go off into a daydream out of boredom. That lack of awareness is what kills.

Speed limits and fines are nothing more than a revenue generator for the state. They are set in such a way to really hamper the way the majority of the people would normally, safely operate vehicles. That restriction is why people resent and don’t respect speed limits. Fines don’t change behavior and frankly moderate speeding isn’t dangerous. It is more about relative speed (faster or even worse slower).

I think a better method of reducing accidents would be to just hold people accountable for failures. Absolutely hammer people at fault for any accident, no matter how minor. I’m talking several thousand dollar fine for a fender bender. Maybe license suspension/revocation if you are at fault in an accident. That incentive would make people pay attention and reduce fatalities while freeing drivers from the heavy hand of our nanny state.[/quote]

While I see some of what you say about speed limits/state income, I tend to disagree that nailing people to the wall for accidents would reduce accidents. We nail people for drunk driving, and yet people still drive drunk. It isnt even an education thing, cause there is drunk driving education/warnings all over the freaking place. We know it is wrong, we know it is dangerous, and yet we still do it. The only thing nailing people for every little in infraction would do effectivly is increase the number of people leaving the site of an accident.

[DWCAP]

[quote=garysears]I agree that excessive speed can kill but it isn’t the main issue. The main issue is that idiot not paying attention who is about to do something irrational, for whom looking down the road is not the #1 priority. Driving slower wouldn’t necessarily mean fewer accidents. There are a ridiculous number of fender benders in stop and go traffic.

Most speed limits are overly conservative because they account for worst case scenarious with a HUGE margin thrown in. The fact is driving is really too easy. I am a more dangerous driver when I am mindlesslessly driving along on the interstate at 60mph because I go off into a daydream out of boredom. That lack of awareness is what kills.

Speed limits and fines are nothing more than a revenue generator for the state. They are set in such a way to really hamper the way the majority of the people would normally, safely operate vehicles. That restriction is why people resent and don’t respect speed limits. Fines don’t change behavior and frankly moderate speeding isn’t dangerous. It is more about relative speed (faster or even worse slower).

I think a better method of reducing accidents would be to just hold people accountable for failures. Absolutely hammer people at fault for any accident, no matter how minor. I’m talking several thousand dollar fine for a fender bender. Maybe license suspension/revocation if you are at fault in an accident. That incentive would make people pay attention and reduce fatalities while freeing drivers from the heavy hand of our nanny state.[/quote]

While I see some of what you say about speed limits/state income, I tend to disagree that nailing people to the wall for accidents would reduce accidents. We nail people for drunk driving, and yet people still drive drunk. It isnt even an education thing, cause there is drunk driving education/warnings all over the freaking place. We know it is wrong, we know it is dangerous, and yet we still do it. The only thing nailing people for every little in infraction would do effectivly is increase the number of people leaving the site of an accident.

[DWCAP]

I think this is way to conspiracy minded CAR. I really think all that happened was everyone wanted on the gravy train. Homeowners loved it cause they felt they were getting rich. Home builders loved it cause they could build and sell more and more expensive homes. Your ‘median’ worker (plumber, cabinet maker, store manager) loved it cause there was work galore and people were buying most anything and everything, even at higher and higher pricing. The banks loved it cause the refi fees and off loading of risk to GSE’s/wall street ment rising profits and fatter and fatter bonus’s. The local governments loved it cause the taxes were rolling in, allowing large wage and benifit increases to employees, who also loved it and didnt cause problems.

And the politicans loved it cause everyone was happy; ensuring their continued re-elections.

Then the party started to falter. We ran out of people qualified to buy/own houses. So we just qualified more and more, regardless of anything, cause the party needed to continue. Unemployment was still an unexceptable 6%+, and the stock market was still down from its y2k highs.

It just so happened the GSE’s were late to the game, having gotten caught up in the whole ‘accounting does matter’ problem, and were a useful tool for 2004 and 2006 re-elections. Gotta keep everyone happy and all. (Didnt you know the constitution GUARENTEED it, it is right there, “the right to life, liberty, and happyness (as defined by 3000sqft houses and granite countertops). Besides, housing never goes down, so it is a safe investment for your tax money.

So fannie and freddie gotta play along cause the politicans needed them to keep everyone happy and voting. I really dont think any of them ‘knew’ this was coming, with the possible exception of some bankers. We have proved time and time again the inability to see past the next election cycle or our own wallet. Regardless of party, sex or age/education level obtained.

To put it another, shorter, way. The risk/reward payouts were, and still are, out of wack with each other. People did what they thought was best for themselves at each step of the way, and communally we ran off a cliff. There was no ‘legion of doom’ plotting their raiding. There is no secret lair full of palm trees and ‘comfort women’ to escape to. There was/is no real thinking in general. Each and every person did what was best for themselves and those they relied upon. The problem is that the timelines were measured in months or quarters, instead of decades or lifetimes.

[DWCAP]

I think this is way to conspiracy minded CAR. I really think all that happened was everyone wanted on the gravy train. Homeowners loved it cause they felt they were getting rich. Home builders loved it cause they could build and sell more and more expensive homes. Your ‘median’ worker (plumber, cabinet maker, store manager) loved it cause there was work galore and people were buying most anything and everything, even at higher and higher pricing. The banks loved it cause the refi fees and off loading of risk to GSE’s/wall street ment rising profits and fatter and fatter bonus’s. The local governments loved it cause the taxes were rolling in, allowing large wage and benifit increases to employees, who also loved it and didnt cause problems.

And the politicans loved it cause everyone was happy; ensuring their continued re-elections.

Then the party started to falter. We ran out of people qualified to buy/own houses. So we just qualified more and more, regardless of anything, cause the party needed to continue. Unemployment was still an unexceptable 6%+, and the stock market was still down from its y2k highs.

It just so happened the GSE’s were late to the game, having gotten caught up in the whole ‘accounting does matter’ problem, and were a useful tool for 2004 and 2006 re-elections. Gotta keep everyone happy and all. (Didnt you know the constitution GUARENTEED it, it is right there, “the right to life, liberty, and happyness (as defined by 3000sqft houses and granite countertops). Besides, housing never goes down, so it is a safe investment for your tax money.

So fannie and freddie gotta play along cause the politicans needed them to keep everyone happy and voting. I really dont think any of them ‘knew’ this was coming, with the possible exception of some bankers. We have proved time and time again the inability to see past the next election cycle or our own wallet. Regardless of party, sex or age/education level obtained.

To put it another, shorter, way. The risk/reward payouts were, and still are, out of wack with each other. People did what they thought was best for themselves at each step of the way, and communally we ran off a cliff. There was no ‘legion of doom’ plotting their raiding. There is no secret lair full of palm trees and ‘comfort women’ to escape to. There was/is no real thinking in general. Each and every person did what was best for themselves and those they relied upon. The problem is that the timelines were measured in months or quarters, instead of decades or lifetimes.

[DWCAP]

I think this is way to conspiracy minded CAR. I really think all that happened was everyone wanted on the gravy train. Homeowners loved it cause they felt they were getting rich. Home builders loved it cause they could build and sell more and more expensive homes. Your ‘median’ worker (plumber, cabinet maker, store manager) loved it cause there was work galore and people were buying most anything and everything, even at higher and higher pricing. The banks loved it cause the refi fees and off loading of risk to GSE’s/wall street ment rising profits and fatter and fatter bonus’s. The local governments loved it cause the taxes were rolling in, allowing large wage and benifit increases to employees, who also loved it and didnt cause problems.

And the politicans loved it cause everyone was happy; ensuring their continued re-elections.

Then the party started to falter. We ran out of people qualified to buy/own houses. So we just qualified more and more, regardless of anything, cause the party needed to continue. Unemployment was still an unexceptable 6%+, and the stock market was still down from its y2k highs.

It just so happened the GSE’s were late to the game, having gotten caught up in the whole ‘accounting does matter’ problem, and were a useful tool for 2004 and 2006 re-elections. Gotta keep everyone happy and all. (Didnt you know the constitution GUARENTEED it, it is right there, “the right to life, liberty, and happyness (as defined by 3000sqft houses and granite countertops). Besides, housing never goes down, so it is a safe investment for your tax money.

So fannie and freddie gotta play along cause the politicans needed them to keep everyone happy and voting. I really dont think any of them ‘knew’ this was coming, with the possible exception of some bankers. We have proved time and time again the inability to see past the next election cycle or our own wallet. Regardless of party, sex or age/education level obtained.

To put it another, shorter, way. The risk/reward payouts were, and still are, out of wack with each other. People did what they thought was best for themselves at each step of the way, and communally we ran off a cliff. There was no ‘legion of doom’ plotting their raiding. There is no secret lair full of palm trees and ‘comfort women’ to escape to. There was/is no real thinking in general. Each and every person did what was best for themselves and those they relied upon. The problem is that the timelines were measured in months or quarters, instead of decades or lifetimes.

[DWCAP]

I think this is way to conspiracy minded CAR. I really think all that happened was everyone wanted on the gravy train. Homeowners loved it cause they felt they were getting rich. Home builders loved it cause they could build and sell more and more expensive homes. Your ‘median’ worker (plumber, cabinet maker, store manager) loved it cause there was work galore and people were buying most anything and everything, even at higher and higher pricing. The banks loved it cause the refi fees and off loading of risk to GSE’s/wall street ment rising profits and fatter and fatter bonus’s. The local governments loved it cause the taxes were rolling in, allowing large wage and benifit increases to employees, who also loved it and didnt cause problems.

And the politicans loved it cause everyone was happy; ensuring their continued re-elections.

Then the party started to falter. We ran out of people qualified to buy/own houses. So we just qualified more and more, regardless of anything, cause the party needed to continue. Unemployment was still an unexceptable 6%+, and the stock market was still down from its y2k highs.

It just so happened the GSE’s were late to the game, having gotten caught up in the whole ‘accounting does matter’ problem, and were a useful tool for 2004 and 2006 re-elections. Gotta keep everyone happy and all. (Didnt you know the constitution GUARENTEED it, it is right there, “the right to life, liberty, and happyness (as defined by 3000sqft houses and granite countertops). Besides, housing never goes down, so it is a safe investment for your tax money.

So fannie and freddie gotta play along cause the politicans needed them to keep everyone happy and voting. I really dont think any of them ‘knew’ this was coming, with the possible exception of some bankers. We have proved time and time again the inability to see past the next election cycle or our own wallet. Regardless of party, sex or age/education level obtained.

To put it another, shorter, way. The risk/reward payouts were, and still are, out of wack with each other. People did what they thought was best for themselves at each step of the way, and communally we ran off a cliff. There was no ‘legion of doom’ plotting their raiding. There is no secret lair full of palm trees and ‘comfort women’ to escape to. There was/is no real thinking in general. Each and every person did what was best for themselves and those they relied upon. The problem is that the timelines were measured in months or quarters, instead of decades or lifetimes.

[DWCAP]

I think this is way to conspiracy minded CAR. I really think all that happened was everyone wanted on the gravy train. Homeowners loved it cause they felt they were getting rich. Home builders loved it cause they could build and sell more and more expensive homes. Your ‘median’ worker (plumber, cabinet maker, store manager) loved it cause there was work galore and people were buying most anything and everything, even at higher and higher pricing. The banks loved it cause the refi fees and off loading of risk to GSE’s/wall street ment rising profits and fatter and fatter bonus’s. The local governments loved it cause the taxes were rolling in, allowing large wage and benifit increases to employees, who also loved it and didnt cause problems.

And the politicans loved it cause everyone was happy; ensuring their continued re-elections.

Then the party started to falter. We ran out of people qualified to buy/own houses. So we just qualified more and more, regardless of anything, cause the party needed to continue. Unemployment was still an unexceptable 6%+, and the stock market was still down from its y2k highs.

It just so happened the GSE’s were late to the game, having gotten caught up in the whole ‘accounting does matter’ problem, and were a useful tool for 2004 and 2006 re-elections. Gotta keep everyone happy and all. (Didnt you know the constitution GUARENTEED it, it is right there, “the right to life, liberty, and happyness (as defined by 3000sqft houses and granite countertops). Besides, housing never goes down, so it is a safe investment for your tax money.

So fannie and freddie gotta play along cause the politicans needed them to keep everyone happy and voting. I really dont think any of them ‘knew’ this was coming, with the possible exception of some bankers. We have proved time and time again the inability to see past the next election cycle or our own wallet. Regardless of party, sex or age/education level obtained.

To put it another, shorter, way. The risk/reward payouts were, and still are, out of wack with each other. People did what they thought was best for themselves at each step of the way, and communally we ran off a cliff. There was no ‘legion of doom’ plotting their raiding. There is no secret lair full of palm trees and ‘comfort women’ to escape to. There was/is no real thinking in general. Each and every person did what was best for themselves and those they relied upon. The problem is that the timelines were measured in months or quarters, instead of decades or lifetimes.

[DWCAP]

In general I think the reason for the ‘left lane cruisers’ is that they dont wanna think. Only in the left lane are you assured that vehilces will be entering only from one side. And while right lanes often end and traffic must merge, left lanes rarely do. So you have a lane that is continous and mostly merger free, consisting mostly of people going a signifant distance (say 10-15 miles +). It is easy to turn off the brain and cruise along while your brain bairly keeps track of the two red lights directly infront.

It scares the hell outa me sometimes to think how many people are hardley thinking while doing 60+ in a 1000lb+ battering ram. As humans, we SUCK at indentifing risk and reducing it. Is there ANYTHING we do on a daily basis that holds more risk than driving? I cant think of anything. And that is when you wanna turn your brain off and cruise???

[DWCAP]

In general I think the reason for the ‘left lane cruisers’ is that they dont wanna think. Only in the left lane are you assured that vehilces will be entering only from one side. And while right lanes often end and traffic must merge, left lanes rarely do. So you have a lane that is continous and mostly merger free, consisting mostly of people going a signifant distance (say 10-15 miles +). It is easy to turn off the brain and cruise along while your brain bairly keeps track of the two red lights directly infront.

It scares the hell outa me sometimes to think how many people are hardley thinking while doing 60+ in a 1000lb+ battering ram. As humans, we SUCK at indentifing risk and reducing it. Is there ANYTHING we do on a daily basis that holds more risk than driving? I cant think of anything. And that is when you wanna turn your brain off and cruise???

[DWCAP]

In general I think the reason for the ‘left lane cruisers’ is that they dont wanna think. Only in the left lane are you assured that vehilces will be entering only from one side. And while right lanes often end and traffic must merge, left lanes rarely do. So you have a lane that is continous and mostly merger free, consisting mostly of people going a signifant distance (say 10-15 miles +). It is easy to turn off the brain and cruise along while your brain bairly keeps track of the two red lights directly infront.

It scares the hell outa me sometimes to think how many people are hardley thinking while doing 60+ in a 1000lb+ battering ram. As humans, we SUCK at indentifing risk and reducing it. Is there ANYTHING we do on a daily basis that holds more risk than driving? I cant think of anything. And that is when you wanna turn your brain off and cruise???

[Author]

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