[Coronita]

Financially Yes, Militarily No. This crisis will make US stronger as a nation, promote thrift, reduce debt, cut down waste, will bring back dignity to real labor.

 

I disagree. Most americans have no concept of "saving". You give someone a buck (raise), they'll spend 2. You lend someone a buck, they'll use it to for the first monthly payment in financing bling. It's been part of the culture for a long time. What is going to make americans all the sudden wake up and change? Recession, implosion of financial system? Even so, doubt behavior will drastically change. Maybe a smarter, less selfish, less me generation (our kids).

 

[Coronita]

If you want to try to make money. Think about how to bring western culture and quality of living to China.

Chinese have more money to spend these days. They want to try to adopt more western style of life.

For example, a big business (with the real estate boom) is folks that have exported sink garage disposal from the U.S. to China. Laugh all you want, but it was big business, because folks desire a brand like ISE (in sink erator) rather than some domestically made (china made thing). Actually, the sink disposal is a great example where the china has *not* yet made internally. Also, with a lot of westener expats in china, there’ss a need to fill the cultural void.

[Coronita]

If you want to try to make money. Think about how to bring western culture and quality of living to China.

Chinese have more money to spend these days. They want to try to adopt more western style of life.

For example, a big business (with the real estate boom) is folks that have exported sink garage disposal from the U.S. to China. Laugh all you want, but it was big business, because folks desire a brand like ISE (in sink erator) rather than some domestically made (china made thing). Actually, the sink disposal is a great example where the china has *not* yet made internally. Also, with a lot of westener expats in china, there’ss a need to fill the cultural void.

[Coronita]

If you want to try to make money. Think about how to bring western culture and quality of living to China.

Chinese have more money to spend these days. They want to try to adopt more western style of life.

For example, a big business (with the real estate boom) is folks that have exported sink garage disposal from the U.S. to China. Laugh all you want, but it was big business, because folks desire a brand like ISE (in sink erator) rather than some domestically made (china made thing). Actually, the sink disposal is a great example where the china has *not* yet made internally. Also, with a lot of westener expats in china, there’ss a need to fill the cultural void.

[Coronita]

Made in China is just another US innovation

 

I don't have a problem with people complaining about made in china per se. I just have a problem with the hypocracy. Folks try to buy the cheapest things and then complain about having their jobs outsourced. There are clear alternatives

 

1) buy something made here and pay more.

2) do without the thing.

 

Less food, shelter, transportation, there really isn't anything that a person really "needs".

What to talk about patriotism, buy a Craftsman socket set at $20-$30 instead dof the made in PRC equivalent from walmart at $5. I generally do this because generally you do get what you pay for in terms of quality.

 

When you go to vons, buy TreeTop applejuice (made in seattle with apples in U.S.) instead of the Vons/Safeway brand (made from apples in china) or Motts (made from apples from Mexico).  It will cost $1 more.  (personally, buying food from china imho is gross, avoid it if you can).

 

[Coronita]

Made in China is just another US innovation

 

I don't have a problem with people complaining about made in china per se. I just have a problem with the hypocracy. Folks try to buy the cheapest things and then complain about having their jobs outsourced. There are clear alternatives

 

1) buy something made here and pay more.

2) do without the thing.

 

Less food, shelter, transportation, there really isn't anything that a person really "needs".

What to talk about patriotism, buy a Craftsman socket set at $20-$30 instead dof the made in PRC equivalent from walmart at $5. I generally do this because generally you do get what you pay for in terms of quality.

 

When you go to vons, buy TreeTop applejuice (made in seattle with apples in U.S.) instead of the Vons/Safeway brand (made from apples in china) or Motts (made from apples from Mexico).  It will cost $1 more.  (personally, buying food from china imho is gross, avoid it if you can).

 

[Coronita]

Made in China is just another US innovation

 

I don't have a problem with people complaining about made in china per se. I just have a problem with the hypocracy. Folks try to buy the cheapest things and then complain about having their jobs outsourced. There are clear alternatives

 

1) buy something made here and pay more.

2) do without the thing.

 

Less food, shelter, transportation, there really isn't anything that a person really "needs".

What to talk about patriotism, buy a Craftsman socket set at $20-$30 instead dof the made in PRC equivalent from walmart at $5. I generally do this because generally you do get what you pay for in terms of quality.

 

When you go to vons, buy TreeTop applejuice (made in seattle with apples in U.S.) instead of the Vons/Safeway brand (made from apples in china) or Motts (made from apples from Mexico).  It will cost $1 more.  (personally, buying food from china imho is gross, avoid it if you can).

 

[Coronita]

fat: doesn't sound strange at all. like the chargers, they're our team as long as they're winning…

 

Some cultural things. One thing to watch out for is if your spouse and her relatives talk a lot about "money". It's an indication of how tight the family financial knot is.

 Example: when my in-laws our her, they always refer to my wife and I's house as "our" house (meaning me, wife,wife-'s inlaw). When a stock is making money it's also "our" stock. A sucker stock is "my stock" though.  It's really irritating. My parents (god bless them) have been westernized thankfully and don't do this.

 

[Coronita]

fat: doesn't sound strange at all. like the chargers, they're our team as long as they're winning…

 

Some cultural things. One thing to watch out for is if your spouse and her relatives talk a lot about "money". It's an indication of how tight the family financial knot is.

 Example: when my in-laws our her, they always refer to my wife and I's house as "our" house (meaning me, wife,wife-'s inlaw). When a stock is making money it's also "our" stock. A sucker stock is "my stock" though.  It's really irritating. My parents (god bless them) have been westernized thankfully and don't do this.

 

[Coronita]

fat: doesn't sound strange at all. like the chargers, they're our team as long as they're winning…

 

Some cultural things. One thing to watch out for is if your spouse and her relatives talk a lot about "money". It's an indication of how tight the family financial knot is.

 Example: when my in-laws our her, they always refer to my wife and I's house as "our" house (meaning me, wife,wife-'s inlaw). When a stock is making money it's also "our" stock. A sucker stock is "my stock" though.  It's really irritating. My parents (god bless them) have been westernized thankfully and don't do this.

 

[Coronita]

I think most economists would not describe what happened to Japan's real estate market as a crash, certainly not a sudden crash. Japan instead experienced slow torture: real estate values declining steadily for over ten years. I’ve given this probably too much thought over the last five years. There are parallels. I definitely think of long-term deflation as a possible scenario for American real estate markets. In my mind, this is driven by reduced purchasing power, steadily declining standard of living in America, particularly for the middle class. I have an instinct that it may not be smart for me re-enter the real estate market in USA whenever we are teased with an apparent "bottom" (year 2010-2012?), because home values in America may just follow that with chronic deflation for many additional years. I'm very worried about it. For those with the option, buying property in China appears to be the obvious alternative. Of course, if you buy a home in a major city in China like I have, you just have to stop breathing (toxic air) if you choose to live in the property in China 🙂

 

With all due respect vrudny, let's get something straight. Buying real estate in china right now as a foreign investor is probably a worse idea than buying something here.

If folks are complaining about home prices being $500k here, don’t even bother considering something in a major city like Shanghai, Suzou, Beijing. The income to housing cost ratio is absurdly disproportinate, worse then what many folks complain about here in the us.

One of the main reasons why real estate has bubbled up in China so much and so fast is until recently, a good portion of purchases have been foreign investors. Average people there can't even think about affording things unless they take out ridiculous mortgages. There lies the problem. Unlike the U.S. where policies prevent wild/spontaneous gov decisions, Chinese government can make policy changes (and have been) very frequently (often weekly or daily basis). In an effort to "cool" things down, they are just about doing everything to discourage foreign investors. Without foreign investors, do you think they real estate is going to keep proped up? And to some extend a muct larger percentage of regulation can occur at the provincial/local level then the national government. Recall also so far, china does *not* have capital gain taxes of investments. This is changing. The mere mention of a tax spooked the chinese stock markets a few times.

Also, there is really lack of regulation and oversight. Granted they are trying to put this in play right now, but it’s like trying to drive without a map and you’re just trying to “wing-it”. These laxes in regulation and oversight will bite the “investors” when/if the house of cards fall.

Also, like I said before, as a foreign investor, you really have no recourse if your real estate deal goes sour. Litigation is rarely if at all (although it is picking up). Now if you have a chinese spouse that is a citizen there or has relatives there, you *could* invest all in her(their) name. Personally, I don't trust my relatives from the other side of the familyto do this. Because again, if anything happened, you would be out of luck-you have no legal claim if something is in your spouse's legal name.

My wife bought property in china about 2-3 years ago before we got married. It's doubled since purchase. She wanted to sell and buy more rentals, BUT it would require her taking out a mortgage in her sis's name. This is where I drew the line. i insisted on opting out. And generally i would discourage anyone I know from doing an in-relative deals like this…I can’t really explain it, because it has to do with chinese culture…But it goes like this. When everyone is winning everyone is fine..The collective family treats the investmest as a collective "our" investment, even though you/spouse ponied up the entire money. However, if things turn sour, I'm sure it will quickly become "my problem" (and not my wife's and her relatives problem). Again, you probably won't understand. It has to do with the chinese culture in handling money. chinese don't like to admit their wrong, so losses will be "your losses".. How do i know???? Lots of real world examples with relatives and friends. one of which, ended up in a divorce (uncle)….And my wife's side is no different.

 

[Coronita]

I think most economists would not describe what happened to Japan's real estate market as a crash, certainly not a sudden crash. Japan instead experienced slow torture: real estate values declining steadily for over ten years. I’ve given this probably too much thought over the last five years. There are parallels. I definitely think of long-term deflation as a possible scenario for American real estate markets. In my mind, this is driven by reduced purchasing power, steadily declining standard of living in America, particularly for the middle class. I have an instinct that it may not be smart for me re-enter the real estate market in USA whenever we are teased with an apparent "bottom" (year 2010-2012?), because home values in America may just follow that with chronic deflation for many additional years. I'm very worried about it. For those with the option, buying property in China appears to be the obvious alternative. Of course, if you buy a home in a major city in China like I have, you just have to stop breathing (toxic air) if you choose to live in the property in China 🙂

 

With all due respect vrudny, let's get something straight. Buying real estate in china right now as a foreign investor is probably a worse idea than buying something here.

If folks are complaining about home prices being $500k here, don’t even bother considering something in a major city like Shanghai, Suzou, Beijing. The income to housing cost ratio is absurdly disproportinate, worse then what many folks complain about here in the us.

One of the main reasons why real estate has bubbled up in China so much and so fast is until recently, a good portion of purchases have been foreign investors. Average people there can't even think about affording things unless they take out ridiculous mortgages. There lies the problem. Unlike the U.S. where policies prevent wild/spontaneous gov decisions, Chinese government can make policy changes (and have been) very frequently (often weekly or daily basis). In an effort to "cool" things down, they are just about doing everything to discourage foreign investors. Without foreign investors, do you think they real estate is going to keep proped up? And to some extend a muct larger percentage of regulation can occur at the provincial/local level then the national government. Recall also so far, china does *not* have capital gain taxes of investments. This is changing. The mere mention of a tax spooked the chinese stock markets a few times.

Also, there is really lack of regulation and oversight. Granted they are trying to put this in play right now, but it’s like trying to drive without a map and you’re just trying to “wing-it”. These laxes in regulation and oversight will bite the “investors” when/if the house of cards fall.

Also, like I said before, as a foreign investor, you really have no recourse if your real estate deal goes sour. Litigation is rarely if at all (although it is picking up). Now if you have a chinese spouse that is a citizen there or has relatives there, you *could* invest all in her(their) name. Personally, I don't trust my relatives from the other side of the familyto do this. Because again, if anything happened, you would be out of luck-you have no legal claim if something is in your spouse's legal name.

My wife bought property in china about 2-3 years ago before we got married. It's doubled since purchase. She wanted to sell and buy more rentals, BUT it would require her taking out a mortgage in her sis's name. This is where I drew the line. i insisted on opting out. And generally i would discourage anyone I know from doing an in-relative deals like this…I can’t really explain it, because it has to do with chinese culture…But it goes like this. When everyone is winning everyone is fine..The collective family treats the investmest as a collective "our" investment, even though you/spouse ponied up the entire money. However, if things turn sour, I'm sure it will quickly become "my problem" (and not my wife's and her relatives problem). Again, you probably won't understand. It has to do with the chinese culture in handling money. chinese don't like to admit their wrong, so losses will be "your losses".. How do i know???? Lots of real world examples with relatives and friends. one of which, ended up in a divorce (uncle)….And my wife's side is no different.

 

[Coronita]

I think most economists would not describe what happened to Japan's real estate market as a crash, certainly not a sudden crash. Japan instead experienced slow torture: real estate values declining steadily for over ten years. I’ve given this probably too much thought over the last five years. There are parallels. I definitely think of long-term deflation as a possible scenario for American real estate markets. In my mind, this is driven by reduced purchasing power, steadily declining standard of living in America, particularly for the middle class. I have an instinct that it may not be smart for me re-enter the real estate market in USA whenever we are teased with an apparent "bottom" (year 2010-2012?), because home values in America may just follow that with chronic deflation for many additional years. I'm very worried about it. For those with the option, buying property in China appears to be the obvious alternative. Of course, if you buy a home in a major city in China like I have, you just have to stop breathing (toxic air) if you choose to live in the property in China 🙂

 

With all due respect vrudny, let's get something straight. Buying real estate in china right now as a foreign investor is probably a worse idea than buying something here.

If folks are complaining about home prices being $500k here, don’t even bother considering something in a major city like Shanghai, Suzou, Beijing. The income to housing cost ratio is absurdly disproportinate, worse then what many folks complain about here in the us.

One of the main reasons why real estate has bubbled up in China so much and so fast is until recently, a good portion of purchases have been foreign investors. Average people there can't even think about affording things unless they take out ridiculous mortgages. There lies the problem. Unlike the U.S. where policies prevent wild/spontaneous gov decisions, Chinese government can make policy changes (and have been) very frequently (often weekly or daily basis). In an effort to "cool" things down, they are just about doing everything to discourage foreign investors. Without foreign investors, do you think they real estate is going to keep proped up? And to some extend a muct larger percentage of regulation can occur at the provincial/local level then the national government. Recall also so far, china does *not* have capital gain taxes of investments. This is changing. The mere mention of a tax spooked the chinese stock markets a few times.

Also, there is really lack of regulation and oversight. Granted they are trying to put this in play right now, but it’s like trying to drive without a map and you’re just trying to “wing-it”. These laxes in regulation and oversight will bite the “investors” when/if the house of cards fall.

Also, like I said before, as a foreign investor, you really have no recourse if your real estate deal goes sour. Litigation is rarely if at all (although it is picking up). Now if you have a chinese spouse that is a citizen there or has relatives there, you *could* invest all in her(their) name. Personally, I don't trust my relatives from the other side of the familyto do this. Because again, if anything happened, you would be out of luck-you have no legal claim if something is in your spouse's legal name.

My wife bought property in china about 2-3 years ago before we got married. It's doubled since purchase. She wanted to sell and buy more rentals, BUT it would require her taking out a mortgage in her sis's name. This is where I drew the line. i insisted on opting out. And generally i would discourage anyone I know from doing an in-relative deals like this…I can’t really explain it, because it has to do with chinese culture…But it goes like this. When everyone is winning everyone is fine..The collective family treats the investmest as a collective "our" investment, even though you/spouse ponied up the entire money. However, if things turn sour, I'm sure it will quickly become "my problem" (and not my wife's and her relatives problem). Again, you probably won't understand. It has to do with the chinese culture in handling money. chinese don't like to admit their wrong, so losses will be "your losses".. How do i know???? Lots of real world examples with relatives and friends. one of which, ended up in a divorce (uncle)….And my wife's side is no different.

 

[Coronita]

China

 

I wouldn't. It's too late. You folks think things here are irrationale??? Some of the loans over there makes all the ALT-A and mortgage fraud that occur here look like child's play. As a foreign investor in China right now, you will get burned. 

[Coronita]

China

 

I wouldn't. It's too late. You folks think things here are irrationale??? Some of the loans over there makes all the ALT-A and mortgage fraud that occur here look like child's play. As a foreign investor in China right now, you will get burned. 

[Author]

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