Forum Replies Created
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AuthorPosts
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CoronitaParticipantflu:
brokerage statement? what brokerage statement?
so what's on the plate for tomorrow. too late to do anything about it, but i have a feeling things are going to pop. wish i didn't miss closing, i might have closed out some positions, opened more up side positions.
clinton and mccain got nh. seems positive for wall street.
Argg…do I sort of have to spell this out?
Brokerage firms send out a 1099 form to IRS and an extended-1099 form to you. It's to my understanding, in the past what appears on the IRS1099 is typically securities sold that year. (No options transaction. Come to think of it, no information on when you buy either). The 1099 documents sent to you usually say "this information is being sent to the IRS", and another section says "this information is being provide for your benefit but not sent to the IRS"…
It would seem options would be a bitch and a half for the IRS to figure out in their automated systems that screen and flags returns for audit. Options are not just simply bought or sold, but come and go through the nature of expiration,occasionally even get renamed at times, vary based on other factors in very short periods all making it extremely complicated manage.
Consider a very simple scenario… Let's say you write options, say a covered call. You give someone a right to buy a stock at a given price X. Let's say the option price is $5 and you write 1 contract. You get credited for the stock option you sold at $500 (1 contract = 100shrs), though it's not considered profit or loss yet, because you haven't closed the position.If the option expires worthless before end of this year, you recognize a profit automatically that year. If the expiration is not until next year, then it gets recognized next year. Also, this assumes the option expired worthless. What if it didn't expire worthless (IE the other person was able to exercise it, you had to cough up the extra stock,etc). You got the $500, but it might not be all profit, because you had to provide stock to the option holder. I challenge you to find a brokerage firm that reports option expirations in the IRS1099. If it it were, I doubt the IRS's automated system for flagging returns for audit will be able to do something meaningful with option expiration information alone (at least in the current state, perhaps as things get more sophisticated years down the road).
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything on their taxes, afterall the Fed does need your hard-earned money to bailout all the subprimes, poor savers, etc….Also, standard disclaimer applies to actually execute on this, since if you are one of the unfortunate people that happen to get randomly audited, and in due process of a in-person audit, they want to look at your actual brokerage account statements, you would be pretty screwed….But, the speculation on the implications are left as an exercise. Consider the game as russian roulette with a 20 chamber revolver and 1 bullet loaded. Wanna play?
And if there's an IRS person lurking around here, go ahead and audit me. My last audit uncovered that I was actually owed more in refund than I received. And besides, I have enough losses on my options trading each year to fully report, since I typically buy put options that usually expire worthless..for the purpose of using them as sort of insurance to hedge against in-the-money incentive stock options offered by my employers that are near vesting…just in case the company's stock tanks or I have to enter a blackout window before I can do something with those company options.
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantflu:
brokerage statement? what brokerage statement?
so what's on the plate for tomorrow. too late to do anything about it, but i have a feeling things are going to pop. wish i didn't miss closing, i might have closed out some positions, opened more up side positions.
clinton and mccain got nh. seems positive for wall street.
Argg…do I sort of have to spell this out?
Brokerage firms send out a 1099 form to IRS and an extended-1099 form to you. It's to my understanding, in the past what appears on the IRS1099 is typically securities sold that year. (No options transaction. Come to think of it, no information on when you buy either). The 1099 documents sent to you usually say "this information is being sent to the IRS", and another section says "this information is being provide for your benefit but not sent to the IRS"…
It would seem options would be a bitch and a half for the IRS to figure out in their automated systems that screen and flags returns for audit. Options are not just simply bought or sold, but come and go through the nature of expiration,occasionally even get renamed at times, vary based on other factors in very short periods all making it extremely complicated manage.
Consider a very simple scenario… Let's say you write options, say a covered call. You give someone a right to buy a stock at a given price X. Let's say the option price is $5 and you write 1 contract. You get credited for the stock option you sold at $500 (1 contract = 100shrs), though it's not considered profit or loss yet, because you haven't closed the position.If the option expires worthless before end of this year, you recognize a profit automatically that year. If the expiration is not until next year, then it gets recognized next year. Also, this assumes the option expired worthless. What if it didn't expire worthless (IE the other person was able to exercise it, you had to cough up the extra stock,etc). You got the $500, but it might not be all profit, because you had to provide stock to the option holder. I challenge you to find a brokerage firm that reports option expirations in the IRS1099. If it it were, I doubt the IRS's automated system for flagging returns for audit will be able to do something meaningful with option expiration information alone (at least in the current state, perhaps as things get more sophisticated years down the road).
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything on their taxes, afterall the Fed does need your hard-earned money to bailout all the subprimes, poor savers, etc….Also, standard disclaimer applies to actually execute on this, since if you are one of the unfortunate people that happen to get randomly audited, and in due process of a in-person audit, they want to look at your actual brokerage account statements, you would be pretty screwed….But, the speculation on the implications are left as an exercise. Consider the game as russian roulette with a 20 chamber revolver and 1 bullet loaded. Wanna play?
And if there's an IRS person lurking around here, go ahead and audit me. My last audit uncovered that I was actually owed more in refund than I received. And besides, I have enough losses on my options trading each year to fully report, since I typically buy put options that usually expire worthless..for the purpose of using them as sort of insurance to hedge against in-the-money incentive stock options offered by my employers that are near vesting…just in case the company's stock tanks or I have to enter a blackout window before I can do something with those company options.
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantflu:
brokerage statement? what brokerage statement?
so what's on the plate for tomorrow. too late to do anything about it, but i have a feeling things are going to pop. wish i didn't miss closing, i might have closed out some positions, opened more up side positions.
clinton and mccain got nh. seems positive for wall street.
Argg…do I sort of have to spell this out?
Brokerage firms send out a 1099 form to IRS and an extended-1099 form to you. It's to my understanding, in the past what appears on the IRS1099 is typically securities sold that year. (No options transaction. Come to think of it, no information on when you buy either). The 1099 documents sent to you usually say "this information is being sent to the IRS", and another section says "this information is being provide for your benefit but not sent to the IRS"…
It would seem options would be a bitch and a half for the IRS to figure out in their automated systems that screen and flags returns for audit. Options are not just simply bought or sold, but come and go through the nature of expiration,occasionally even get renamed at times, vary based on other factors in very short periods all making it extremely complicated manage.
Consider a very simple scenario… Let's say you write options, say a covered call. You give someone a right to buy a stock at a given price X. Let's say the option price is $5 and you write 1 contract. You get credited for the stock option you sold at $500 (1 contract = 100shrs), though it's not considered profit or loss yet, because you haven't closed the position.If the option expires worthless before end of this year, you recognize a profit automatically that year. If the expiration is not until next year, then it gets recognized next year. Also, this assumes the option expired worthless. What if it didn't expire worthless (IE the other person was able to exercise it, you had to cough up the extra stock,etc). You got the $500, but it might not be all profit, because you had to provide stock to the option holder. I challenge you to find a brokerage firm that reports option expirations in the IRS1099. If it it were, I doubt the IRS's automated system for flagging returns for audit will be able to do something meaningful with option expiration information alone (at least in the current state, perhaps as things get more sophisticated years down the road).
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything on their taxes, afterall the Fed does need your hard-earned money to bailout all the subprimes, poor savers, etc….Also, standard disclaimer applies to actually execute on this, since if you are one of the unfortunate people that happen to get randomly audited, and in due process of a in-person audit, they want to look at your actual brokerage account statements, you would be pretty screwed….But, the speculation on the implications are left as an exercise. Consider the game as russian roulette with a 20 chamber revolver and 1 bullet loaded. Wanna play?
And if there's an IRS person lurking around here, go ahead and audit me. My last audit uncovered that I was actually owed more in refund than I received. And besides, I have enough losses on my options trading each year to fully report, since I typically buy put options that usually expire worthless..for the purpose of using them as sort of insurance to hedge against in-the-money incentive stock options offered by my employers that are near vesting…just in case the company's stock tanks or I have to enter a blackout window before I can do something with those company options.
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantflu:
brokerage statement? what brokerage statement?
so what's on the plate for tomorrow. too late to do anything about it, but i have a feeling things are going to pop. wish i didn't miss closing, i might have closed out some positions, opened more up side positions.
clinton and mccain got nh. seems positive for wall street.
Argg…do I sort of have to spell this out?
Brokerage firms send out a 1099 form to IRS and an extended-1099 form to you. It's to my understanding, in the past what appears on the IRS1099 is typically securities sold that year. (No options transaction. Come to think of it, no information on when you buy either). The 1099 documents sent to you usually say "this information is being sent to the IRS", and another section says "this information is being provide for your benefit but not sent to the IRS"…
It would seem options would be a bitch and a half for the IRS to figure out in their automated systems that screen and flags returns for audit. Options are not just simply bought or sold, but come and go through the nature of expiration,occasionally even get renamed at times, vary based on other factors in very short periods all making it extremely complicated manage.
Consider a very simple scenario… Let's say you write options, say a covered call. You give someone a right to buy a stock at a given price X. Let's say the option price is $5 and you write 1 contract. You get credited for the stock option you sold at $500 (1 contract = 100shrs), though it's not considered profit or loss yet, because you haven't closed the position.If the option expires worthless before end of this year, you recognize a profit automatically that year. If the expiration is not until next year, then it gets recognized next year. Also, this assumes the option expired worthless. What if it didn't expire worthless (IE the other person was able to exercise it, you had to cough up the extra stock,etc). You got the $500, but it might not be all profit, because you had to provide stock to the option holder. I challenge you to find a brokerage firm that reports option expirations in the IRS1099. If it it were, I doubt the IRS's automated system for flagging returns for audit will be able to do something meaningful with option expiration information alone (at least in the current state, perhaps as things get more sophisticated years down the road).
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything on their taxes, afterall the Fed does need your hard-earned money to bailout all the subprimes, poor savers, etc….Also, standard disclaimer applies to actually execute on this, since if you are one of the unfortunate people that happen to get randomly audited, and in due process of a in-person audit, they want to look at your actual brokerage account statements, you would be pretty screwed….But, the speculation on the implications are left as an exercise. Consider the game as russian roulette with a 20 chamber revolver and 1 bullet loaded. Wanna play?
And if there's an IRS person lurking around here, go ahead and audit me. My last audit uncovered that I was actually owed more in refund than I received. And besides, I have enough losses on my options trading each year to fully report, since I typically buy put options that usually expire worthless..for the purpose of using them as sort of insurance to hedge against in-the-money incentive stock options offered by my employers that are near vesting…just in case the company's stock tanks or I have to enter a blackout window before I can do something with those company options.
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantThis is a fun thread; I'll take the bait and reply.
I'm at a 2, really enjoying the ride, and not bitter. However, my wife and I have benefited from reading the wisdom of this forum from the beginning. We sold our house at the peak, renting it back from the fool who bought it. We moved that equity to China where we bought a big condo which has doubled in price (plus a 10% currency move). We remain renters, now live in Bay Area and have nice salaries to match. Both our retirement portfolios were aggressively Bearish of the market when they should have been, so today the account numbers look fantastic. We are making good progress saving for the housing market to hit Rock Bottom, planning to buy a SFH then at discount.
The sole remaining event needed for me to reach a Level 1 is that anticipated "Day of Total Panic" where stock markets fall so fast inside a trading day they hit the hard stop maximum downside limit and trip the "Circuit Breakers" freezing trading during that day. I expect too see that dark day of panic within six months and I expect it to involve at least a TEN PERCENT total drop in two trading sessions or less. I plan to make a large amount of money that day.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21197396/
This forum, oddly, seems to still have some permabulls who spend their days spewing flaming posts against the die hard Bears like me.
I offer this sincere and friendly advice to those permabulls, because I do want you to be happy and prosperous.
This economy and stock market is in a nasty evil vengeful mood. It is a runaway train headed downhill now at breakneck pace. This train is going to roll over you and shred your retirement portfolio if you stand on the train tracks like a naively optimistic glass-is-half-full PermaBull.
Get a clue. On the NASDAQ alone we have seen a 9.7% decline since Dec 26th, less than ten trading days.
My advice: get on board with us Bears and make some money or at least move your entire portfolio out of stocks. Do it because there is not a single reason for a Bull Market, and every reason exists for a dark nasty Bear Market that is now upon us with a vengeance.
Oh, and am I bothered by the flame posts?
When a man sits on the floor counting as much gold as I've won in the market in the last ten days, a few gnats flying around the room are not noticeable.
I knew you couldn't resist…
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantThis is a fun thread; I'll take the bait and reply.
I'm at a 2, really enjoying the ride, and not bitter. However, my wife and I have benefited from reading the wisdom of this forum from the beginning. We sold our house at the peak, renting it back from the fool who bought it. We moved that equity to China where we bought a big condo which has doubled in price (plus a 10% currency move). We remain renters, now live in Bay Area and have nice salaries to match. Both our retirement portfolios were aggressively Bearish of the market when they should have been, so today the account numbers look fantastic. We are making good progress saving for the housing market to hit Rock Bottom, planning to buy a SFH then at discount.
The sole remaining event needed for me to reach a Level 1 is that anticipated "Day of Total Panic" where stock markets fall so fast inside a trading day they hit the hard stop maximum downside limit and trip the "Circuit Breakers" freezing trading during that day. I expect too see that dark day of panic within six months and I expect it to involve at least a TEN PERCENT total drop in two trading sessions or less. I plan to make a large amount of money that day.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21197396/
This forum, oddly, seems to still have some permabulls who spend their days spewing flaming posts against the die hard Bears like me.
I offer this sincere and friendly advice to those permabulls, because I do want you to be happy and prosperous.
This economy and stock market is in a nasty evil vengeful mood. It is a runaway train headed downhill now at breakneck pace. This train is going to roll over you and shred your retirement portfolio if you stand on the train tracks like a naively optimistic glass-is-half-full PermaBull.
Get a clue. On the NASDAQ alone we have seen a 9.7% decline since Dec 26th, less than ten trading days.
My advice: get on board with us Bears and make some money or at least move your entire portfolio out of stocks. Do it because there is not a single reason for a Bull Market, and every reason exists for a dark nasty Bear Market that is now upon us with a vengeance.
Oh, and am I bothered by the flame posts?
When a man sits on the floor counting as much gold as I've won in the market in the last ten days, a few gnats flying around the room are not noticeable.
I knew you couldn't resist…
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantThis is a fun thread; I'll take the bait and reply.
I'm at a 2, really enjoying the ride, and not bitter. However, my wife and I have benefited from reading the wisdom of this forum from the beginning. We sold our house at the peak, renting it back from the fool who bought it. We moved that equity to China where we bought a big condo which has doubled in price (plus a 10% currency move). We remain renters, now live in Bay Area and have nice salaries to match. Both our retirement portfolios were aggressively Bearish of the market when they should have been, so today the account numbers look fantastic. We are making good progress saving for the housing market to hit Rock Bottom, planning to buy a SFH then at discount.
The sole remaining event needed for me to reach a Level 1 is that anticipated "Day of Total Panic" where stock markets fall so fast inside a trading day they hit the hard stop maximum downside limit and trip the "Circuit Breakers" freezing trading during that day. I expect too see that dark day of panic within six months and I expect it to involve at least a TEN PERCENT total drop in two trading sessions or less. I plan to make a large amount of money that day.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21197396/
This forum, oddly, seems to still have some permabulls who spend their days spewing flaming posts against the die hard Bears like me.
I offer this sincere and friendly advice to those permabulls, because I do want you to be happy and prosperous.
This economy and stock market is in a nasty evil vengeful mood. It is a runaway train headed downhill now at breakneck pace. This train is going to roll over you and shred your retirement portfolio if you stand on the train tracks like a naively optimistic glass-is-half-full PermaBull.
Get a clue. On the NASDAQ alone we have seen a 9.7% decline since Dec 26th, less than ten trading days.
My advice: get on board with us Bears and make some money or at least move your entire portfolio out of stocks. Do it because there is not a single reason for a Bull Market, and every reason exists for a dark nasty Bear Market that is now upon us with a vengeance.
Oh, and am I bothered by the flame posts?
When a man sits on the floor counting as much gold as I've won in the market in the last ten days, a few gnats flying around the room are not noticeable.
I knew you couldn't resist…
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantThis is a fun thread; I'll take the bait and reply.
I'm at a 2, really enjoying the ride, and not bitter. However, my wife and I have benefited from reading the wisdom of this forum from the beginning. We sold our house at the peak, renting it back from the fool who bought it. We moved that equity to China where we bought a big condo which has doubled in price (plus a 10% currency move). We remain renters, now live in Bay Area and have nice salaries to match. Both our retirement portfolios were aggressively Bearish of the market when they should have been, so today the account numbers look fantastic. We are making good progress saving for the housing market to hit Rock Bottom, planning to buy a SFH then at discount.
The sole remaining event needed for me to reach a Level 1 is that anticipated "Day of Total Panic" where stock markets fall so fast inside a trading day they hit the hard stop maximum downside limit and trip the "Circuit Breakers" freezing trading during that day. I expect too see that dark day of panic within six months and I expect it to involve at least a TEN PERCENT total drop in two trading sessions or less. I plan to make a large amount of money that day.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21197396/
This forum, oddly, seems to still have some permabulls who spend their days spewing flaming posts against the die hard Bears like me.
I offer this sincere and friendly advice to those permabulls, because I do want you to be happy and prosperous.
This economy and stock market is in a nasty evil vengeful mood. It is a runaway train headed downhill now at breakneck pace. This train is going to roll over you and shred your retirement portfolio if you stand on the train tracks like a naively optimistic glass-is-half-full PermaBull.
Get a clue. On the NASDAQ alone we have seen a 9.7% decline since Dec 26th, less than ten trading days.
My advice: get on board with us Bears and make some money or at least move your entire portfolio out of stocks. Do it because there is not a single reason for a Bull Market, and every reason exists for a dark nasty Bear Market that is now upon us with a vengeance.
Oh, and am I bothered by the flame posts?
When a man sits on the floor counting as much gold as I've won in the market in the last ten days, a few gnats flying around the room are not noticeable.
I knew you couldn't resist…
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantThis is a fun thread; I'll take the bait and reply.
I'm at a 2, really enjoying the ride, and not bitter. However, my wife and I have benefited from reading the wisdom of this forum from the beginning. We sold our house at the peak, renting it back from the fool who bought it. We moved that equity to China where we bought a big condo which has doubled in price (plus a 10% currency move). We remain renters, now live in Bay Area and have nice salaries to match. Both our retirement portfolios were aggressively Bearish of the market when they should have been, so today the account numbers look fantastic. We are making good progress saving for the housing market to hit Rock Bottom, planning to buy a SFH then at discount.
The sole remaining event needed for me to reach a Level 1 is that anticipated "Day of Total Panic" where stock markets fall so fast inside a trading day they hit the hard stop maximum downside limit and trip the "Circuit Breakers" freezing trading during that day. I expect too see that dark day of panic within six months and I expect it to involve at least a TEN PERCENT total drop in two trading sessions or less. I plan to make a large amount of money that day.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21197396/
This forum, oddly, seems to still have some permabulls who spend their days spewing flaming posts against the die hard Bears like me.
I offer this sincere and friendly advice to those permabulls, because I do want you to be happy and prosperous.
This economy and stock market is in a nasty evil vengeful mood. It is a runaway train headed downhill now at breakneck pace. This train is going to roll over you and shred your retirement portfolio if you stand on the train tracks like a naively optimistic glass-is-half-full PermaBull.
Get a clue. On the NASDAQ alone we have seen a 9.7% decline since Dec 26th, less than ten trading days.
My advice: get on board with us Bears and make some money or at least move your entire portfolio out of stocks. Do it because there is not a single reason for a Bull Market, and every reason exists for a dark nasty Bear Market that is now upon us with a vengeance.
Oh, and am I bothered by the flame posts?
When a man sits on the floor counting as much gold as I've won in the market in the last ten days, a few gnats flying around the room are not noticeable.
I knew you couldn't resist…
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantNot to hijack this thread. But what does something like 3/2 1300sqft home in Mira Mesa fetch in terms of rent these days?
Anyone a landlord can provide factual numbers that they are currently seeing?
Just pondering….
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantNot to hijack this thread. But what does something like 3/2 1300sqft home in Mira Mesa fetch in terms of rent these days?
Anyone a landlord can provide factual numbers that they are currently seeing?
Just pondering….
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantNot to hijack this thread. But what does something like 3/2 1300sqft home in Mira Mesa fetch in terms of rent these days?
Anyone a landlord can provide factual numbers that they are currently seeing?
Just pondering….
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantNot to hijack this thread. But what does something like 3/2 1300sqft home in Mira Mesa fetch in terms of rent these days?
Anyone a landlord can provide factual numbers that they are currently seeing?
Just pondering….
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
CoronitaParticipantNot to hijack this thread. But what does something like 3/2 1300sqft home in Mira Mesa fetch in terms of rent these days?
Anyone a landlord can provide factual numbers that they are currently seeing?
Just pondering….
[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]
—– Sour grapes for everyone!
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