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CoronitaParticipantWell that’s great Scardey. Congrats to your son and you! It’s great when your kids turn out good!!
Like I said, beyond friends, family, hobbies, life couldn’t be anymore simple!
Great that your efforts and hard work paid off!Most other things aren’t very important, so no point in getting all bent out of shape over it…There’s no need for envy/jealousy, because in the end we all end up in the same place …dead…
And that’s the thing..Meaningless doesn’t mean it’s depressing. How can it be? It means you are held down to be compelled to do something you really don’t want to do, that really doesn’t benefit you, your family, your friends, of if you just want to waste time….
Other meaningless things: constantly comparing the toys others have that you don’t have…meaningless. Constantly reminding other people the toys you have that they don’t….epitome of meaningless….well I guess for some that’s needed because they are surrounded by even more wealthy people that somehow make themselves feel inadequate and feel a constant need to reaffirm their otherwise meaningless life by comparing their own toys to others with less that don’t really give a shet….waiting for that big crash…meaningless….making your friends sit through hours of pictures/videos of their vacation when you drop by…meaningless…Bitching about pension crisis….meaningless. Bitching about Trump…meaningless. Posting on this blog…lately very meaningless….and with that…my post and this thread? The epitome of meaningless..
We’re all part of a meaningless thread here…lol….But again, dont feel compelled to continue in this meaninglessness…there’s an ignore but below if you so choose!
CoronitaParticipant[quote=The-Shoveler]Finding meaning in your life is very important IMO.
Else you could be a very rich miserable SOB.
Family, hobbies ect.. can be meaningful but in general the idea is life is not for being happy, but for finding meaning and that may not be saving the world etc.. or even doing what others could not do in your place.
Anyway IMO.[/quote]
Well, I guess if I were to work for a defense contractor, I could say… the purpose of my life is to be a good engineer so that my company can build the most advanced ways of killing other people quickly and most efficiently, so of which doesn’t even require a human body from our side to execute this…
I’d think I’d rather say, no I work on things that people really don’t need to buy, but they do anyway because it’s a 1st world thing to do…And whatever money I get paid to do help make those useless things, I spend part of it on equally useless things made by some other company, so that on the weekends, I can have a good time….
CoronitaParticipant[quote=FlyerInHi]Why is being ethical an issue if life has no meaning. Isn’t legal enough?[/quote]
Well, technically yes, if you assume that life is meaningless, and what you do here now has no consequences later after life…ethics are optional…. For me, ethics matter for personal reasons, so I left that in there.. I just threw it out there because when dealing with people, I don’t assume others have those…. You can hold yourself to a different set a rules but don’t expect everyone else to play by the same rules. So while personally when I “play”, I don’t play to screw people over, I do try to understand how others try to screw people over, so I can try to avoid be screwed over by them.
CoronitaParticipant[quote=The-Shoveler][quote=flu]
Also, I’ll retire when I’m no longer employable. Fundamentally, I like to work and like what I do.[/quote]Yes grasshopper but how does one find his true meaning in life LOL.
My plan/goal is to never fully retire.[/quote]For most people, life is meaningless. For most people, what you do while you are here does didly squat for the rest of society….Stopping kidding yourself that what you do benefits society. In all likelihood, if you weren’t here, someone else would be doing the same exact thing in your place….And what you do is insignificant to the rest of the world.
And that’s a good thing… Because if it really had meaning, you probably wouldn’t be too happy because you would be too busy doing what you were chosen to do for the greater good of the rest of us to enjoy and miserable yourself…
So yes, most of us have no purpose in life while we are here…And once you’ve come to terms with this epiphany, you will suddenly realize you have the freedom to do whatever the heck you want, provided it’s legal and ethical.
So in between work, family, some friends, and hobbies lending towards automotive, that’s all there is to my own life….It couldn’t be any more simple….
I’m not chosen to save the world, and I wouldn’t want that responsibility.
CoronitaParticipant[quote=moneymaker]Another problem with waiting for a crash is do you buy real estate or stock? I’m not a salesman so I love the fact that I can buy and sell stock without any social interaction. As Robert Kiyosaki says a house is a liability. How many houses do you need? If I was Trump I would get rid of any housing tax breaks that multiple home owners are using, unfortunately the only way to do that might involve getting rid of mortgage deductions altogether, which I would not be for. I’ve had really good luck with stocks but am not currently a holder, I have a house so I’m good there too. Currently putting excess money into 401-K (ok I guess I do really own stock sorta) but have no idea what is coming economically down the road. When my crystal ball clears I will post again.[/quote]
I don’t think subscribing to either ends of the fridges of uber bear or perma bear really helps one meet one’s financial goals. It’s more of a emotional decision, with subsequently looking for facts to somehow support your emotional decision. At least, that’s what I learned with the my fiasco of pulling out my 401k on the eve of the trump win. I never touched my 401k before…And had I just left it sit all alone as I’ve always have been, it would be been better in the long run anyway….Even getting back in 70% in January in conservative index splits between domestic and international, it’s done 7% this year, which isn’t bad for a set it and forget it thing…
I’m not touching my 401k again. I have other investments that I can touch and try to manage ( and fvck up…). And I don’t want to camp out in the most aggressive investment options in my 401k anymore… Like I said, why take unnecessary risks if your financial goals can be met with lower risk things? Most financial advice Ive seen mentions that as you get older and closer to retirement, you should be rebalancing your holdings to assume less risk (and I guess since risk goes hand in hand with returns, have lower returns)…because you have less time to recover if things do end up in the crapper.
Also, I’ll retire when I’m no longer employable. Fundamentally, I like to work and like what I do.
CoronitaParticipant[quote=harvey]Meh, semantics.[/quote]
Maybe. My financial goals are to maximize my profits, not requiring to maximize other people’s pain.
CoronitaParticipant[quote=harvey][quote=flu]My point is regardless of the asset class…It amazes me people still camp out waiting for the one shot once in a lifetime event.[/quote]
Because some people value bragging rights over investment returns.[/quote]
But, it seems it’s a little more than that….
This is more like… “I hope the stock market and real estate market crashes so that people get screwed and hurt, and I come out ahead of them because I’m smart and they are dumb”……
Achieving that $50k/year financial goal don’t require the first part…But it’s almost as if, for some, there’s a sense of victory and pleasure only if the first part happens…hence what motivates one to bank a majority of the financial decisions on that one and only outcome. That’s the decision process that I find fascinating.
CoronitaParticipantBut that’s not what spdrun suggested in any of his posts on both this stock thread and on the posted “what’s up with these opportunities” housing thread.
Basically, in short, both of his posts are
1. I want stock prices to crash so while most people get screwed, I can buy low and make a killing….(Meanwhile I’ll sit it out waiting indefinitely.)
2. I want housing prices to crash so while most people get screwed, I can buy low and make a killing…(Meanwhile I’ll sit it out waiting indefinitely.)
and in this thread
3. I only want investments to the point I can generate $50-75k in income so I don’t need to work at a daily job..
(#3) was totally achievable without any sort of “waiting for the big one” if one’s time horizon was 20-25 years, starting when you are in your twenties.
And wrto to property….Let’s take for example… Gzz. He recently bought a positive cash flow property on OB… No need for him to wait for a real estate crash to moving towards his retirement goal.
(#1) & (#2) is a hope that it will happen in your lifetime, at the moment you have the financial resources, and when you can recognize it. If that’s your retirement plan, sorry to say this, that’s a pretty shitty plan. Because it just seems like you’re giving up a lot of opportunity cost of what is happening right now waiting for that one time event that you’re hoping will make up for all those years you did nothing.
CoronitaParticipantMy point is regardless of the asset class…It amazes me people still camp out waiting for the one shot once in a lifetime event. I don’t know, that to me seems to be an incredibly risky strategy. What if you’re wrong???
If folks made an annual $15k towards their 401k every year for 25 years, even with a less than stellar return of 5% , that’s slightly above $800k after 25 years.
You started working at 22-23, you’d be there around the time you were in your mid forties.. and that’s just with the 401k itself, not counting on any other investments elsewhere.
I fail to see why there is a need to bank your entire retirement strategy on one major catastrophe , other than self validation that you are right, everyone else is wrong, and that you are better than the average person.
CoronitaParticipant[quote=spdrun]Because I feel better owning property. Property is real. Property is an actual possession. Property can be lived in, touched, worked on with my two hands. And I enjoy working with my hands more than working with my brain. I’m primitive that way.
Index funds are dependent on the management of Wall Street scum that I don’t personally know and don’t trust (see also: Madoff). I like the control of real estate. It makes me feel safe to own multiple roofs.
*I* pick the tenants.
*I* pick the property.
*I* decide how to fix the property.
*I* can always live in the property if worse comes to worse.It satisfies the selfish little kid in me to hoard physical possessions — kind of like the Kindergartener who wants all of the toys and woe to anyone who asks him to care and share.
Also, crashed property yields 8% or more, not 4-5%. In rents, not Monopoly money.[/quote]
[quote]
[quote=spdrun]Difference being, I’m looking for a very small piece of the pie, so it’s easier to steal it from under people’s noses.I’m not looking to get rich, just to have all of my basic living expenses (housing, utilities, health insurance, food, medical, maybe car) paid by ATMs on the hoof (aka tenants).
Literally, I’m looking for 50-75k per year that I have to do minimum work for and not be beholden to a 8-6 job for. Beyond that, I have no interest in property — it’s not a means of growth for me, just a means to assure a basic level of subsistence, because I’m not creative enough to think of any other way of doing this.[/quote]
[/quote]Again, you’re not being consistent here…..
Your exact words were you’re looking for 50-75k per year that you have to do minimum work for, not beholden to an 8-6 job…beyond which you don’t really care about property. Then, you also replied you wouldn’t mind working for an ahole for some time if it generated $50k/annually for the long term….And now, I’m saying you can generate your $50k/annually with presumedly your ultra thrift/saver you are had you just been camping out in index funds which have no fund manager that actively tries to trade and rack up those management fees that would have produced your $50k/annual amount you wanted… But for some reason, you have a problem with that, with “fees” (though with index funds, those fees are negligible being passive funds not actively managed funds….while meanwhile, you don’t mind paying fees such as “property taxes”, “hoa” and other costs associated with owning real estate….I thought your entire purpose was to try to reach your $50-75k/year in passive income as quickly as you can, regardless of how you get there…provided it’s legal and to a lesser extent ethical…Right?
Also the 8% versus 4%-5% thing…You aren’t getting 8% on property because you didn’t max out on your property when it was at an all time low, so of course looking back on it, if you put all your eggs into property at the exact time when it was low, yes 8% (actually even better)…But you didn’t…Just like you aren’t going to pick the winning stock every single time. So reality is, you are really going to do that much better than the average return on the market over the long period of time….
Besides, if you can get your $50k out of 4-5% why would you want to take on increased risk just to get 8%+ when you really don’t need to, if your only goal is $50k/year in passive income?Again, where does your personal biases, prejudices, preconceived notions, and opinions matter in generating passive income? Don’t you think that your perceptions and biases are costing you a huge opportunity cost that is actually hurting you more than helping you reach your goal?
CoronitaParticipant[quote=spdrun]I am not a perma bear. I’m a tempa-bear. I’m aware that things are cyclical, and that downturns are almost never permanent (in the US, places like Haiti are a different story).[/quote]
If you have $1million laying around., and all you want is $50k… You could stick that into a lower risk dividend fund/index fund and you’ll average out around 4-5% per year with the least about of work….
Why would you be so giddy about wanting a crash, that would be a disservice to your ultimate financial goals??? I don’t get it.
It’s one thing to plan for a crash to minimize risk. It’s another thing to want something opposite of what you should have been doing all along that would have been the easier route instead of banking on the “one hit” that you would guess correctly at the right event at the right time ….Unless of course, like I said, it’s to double down on a failed strategy that you held to for too long to make up for lost time…
I don’t even gamble on just 1 strategy for a very long time… and I consider myself “reckless” when it comes to financial speculation….because like I said, if I’m wrong, I’m really screwed.
CoronitaParticipant[quote=spdrun]If I had to work for some asshole for a year, and was GUARANTEED $50k for life after that, I’d do it. Are you suggesting a specific situation?[/quote]
I’m just wondering how frequently people let their pride get in the way of achieving their goals…. Again, it was just a philosophical question.
For example. If you had to surround yourself with political commentators from Fox news for 2 years working for 5 days 10 hours a day listening and copy writing those editorials from Rush Limbuargh. And in exchange he gave you one of his properties that yielded $50k/year…
CoronitaParticipant[quote=spdrun]
Literally, I’m looking for 50-75k per year that I have to do minimum work for and not be beholden to a 8-6 job for. Beyond that, I have no interest in property — it’s not a means of growth for me, just a means to assure a basic level of subsistence, because I’m not creative enough to think of any other way of doing this.[/quote]
I don’t think you really being honest with yourself on what you just stated as being the only goal.
If that really was your only goal, and the only thing you were looking for…your goal wouldn’t have a required precondition of an economic collapse towards achieving that goal…
You see, if that really was your only goal… You wouldn’t care which way the economic wind is blowing. You would be playing with the hand you are dealt right now and in the few years… You wouldn’t be trying to “out smart” the direction the market is playing, you would be playing with the market condition as long as things pencil in, or as long as the opportunity presented itself. Both in the stock market and in the real estate market….
Instead though, you appear to be adopting a far alt-outer fridge contrarian ideology that a economic collapse will happen, you’re smarter than the average person, you can outsmart the market consistently, and that your path/decision is the most certain way and only way to achieving your stated goal. In other words, you’re goal isn’t just to achieve your targeted $50-70k/year in passive income. You want to do it in a way in which you prove to yourself (and possibly others) you are right, everyone else is wrong, and you are smarter than the average person.. And the fact that you went against the grain/direction, and possibly been left out of what you could have profited from had you just done the same thing most other “dumber” people are doing, you now feel compelled you need to double down on your direction, in order to make up for being behind relative to people that you think are dumber than you…
So in your case, it’s not simply a matter of finding rental property or any asset that can generate $50-75k/year. It’s more doing it in a way such that you feel you’re smart, everyone else is dumb…Am I correct?
I mean, be honest….If some group of people that are completely dumb as a doorknob, she-she stuck up, spoiled, IVY-league snooty, brat approached you and presented a sure way to help you generate that $50-75k/year in passive income as your stated goal…and the only thing you had to do was put up with his/her crap and constant tirade about how smart he/she is (despite being a dick/ahole and dumb as a doorknob)…for an entire year… Would you do it?… Or would pride get in the way of ultimately achieving your goal?
It’s a philosophical question…
CoronitaParticipantSo in other words, your benefit from that psuedo economic collapse was a margin benefit at best and not something earth shattering that propelled you significantly much better off than everyone else.
Somehow, it appears a lot of the uber bears overestimate how much they can capitalize on a bear market. For starters most uber bears only recognize the down part of the economic markets and usually don’t end up buying in a significant way when things are already at rock bottom prices.
This is known as the “I’ll wait for an additional 50% off after prices have already fallen 30-40%…” Those folks missed the then boat, and will continue to miss the future boat.
Then there is the other thing …Reality is, despite how smart you think you are, there are lot more even-smarter money out there, with a lot larger money resource than you do. And while the majority of the population is arguable not that financially savy, there IS a good percentage of the tiny population that is…Some of them being corporate entities. That itself will limit what you can capitalize on.
So while you might score a good deal here and there, you are way overestimating how much better off you will be from this versus everyone else that is waiting to do the same thing…Some who have done this many more times than you have and have a lot more resources than you do.
That’s like saying, when the economy collapses…You can buy a limited production P-car or Lambo at 50% off… Uh, no…. There’s plenty of wealthy people that still will pay near full price for those limited production runs…
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