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Chance the Gardener
ParticipantDuck:
To be clear, we are talking about two different types of assessments. First, when a property transfer occurs, there is a new base year assessment. The base year assessment DOES NOT change year-to-year and you have only 90 days to file an appeal. The assessor is allowed to increase your assessment 2% per year over the original base year assessment.
Second, at some point (now for many people) the current assessed value (base year plus annual adjustments) might exceed the market value of your property. Prop. 8 allows you to request that the assessor adjust your assessment (temporarily – as long as market conditions necessitate) to reflect market conditions. If the market goes up, the assessor can increase this temporarily reduced assessment as much as he wants as long as it does not exceed the base year assessment plus 2% per year since your date of purchase. There is no other limit on the upward adjustment of a temporarily reduced assessment under Prop. 8. I think it is this second type of assessment adjustment that meadandale’s friend (see above) helps with.
As you can see – temporary adjustments to your assessment are not nearly as important as getting the base year adjustment right. It is fundamental to the Constitutionality of Prop. 13 that FMV is determined the same way in a bubble market as it is in an after bubble market. The assessor had no problem saying that purchase price was the FMV in a speculative, inflated market. He can’t change his tune as the market crashes. There is just no rational basis for such duplicity.
Yodle:
I don’t really know what to expect when I get before the board. I plan to go watch a few hearings in the months (or years) before my case gets called. Hopefully the assessor will call back and come to his senses so we can just settle on the purchase price. I believe I do have the right to the presumption that purchase price is fair market value. The assessor should have the burden of proving that the transaction was not arms length.
The condo was listed on the MLS for 90 days +, the price was reduced 3 times. When I first talked to the assessor he claimed that because it was an REO , purchase price did not represent FMV. The bank wasn’t in the business of holding property, his logic continued, so they must have sold it to me for less than FMV, which he can prove with comparables. My hope is that we don’t reach comparables. If so, I am prepared to differentiate them from my property, which was purchased as-is and in significant distress. My strategy – if necessary – is to argue that it was an arms length transaction – both parties represented by agents, property listed on MLS, paid asking price, etc… If I can establish that it was arms length – comparables should be irrelevant. I have case law to back up the letter I linked to above defining FMV=purchase price in arms length transaction. If we get to discovery, I guess I will turn over my receipts for bringing the place up to “same or similar condition” as the so called comparables.
If I lose the appeal, I should be a lawyer by then and I can pursue the appeal in Superior Court on my own. I’ll probably lose (no civil experience, pro se, bad idea) but I will at least get the experience.
Anyone:
If someone has appealed their base year assessment under similar facts I would love to know the outcome and your thoughts about the process.
ParticipantDuck:
To be clear, we are talking about two different types of assessments. First, when a property transfer occurs, there is a new base year assessment. The base year assessment DOES NOT change year-to-year and you have only 90 days to file an appeal. The assessor is allowed to increase your assessment 2% per year over the original base year assessment.
Second, at some point (now for many people) the current assessed value (base year plus annual adjustments) might exceed the market value of your property. Prop. 8 allows you to request that the assessor adjust your assessment (temporarily – as long as market conditions necessitate) to reflect market conditions. If the market goes up, the assessor can increase this temporarily reduced assessment as much as he wants as long as it does not exceed the base year assessment plus 2% per year since your date of purchase. There is no other limit on the upward adjustment of a temporarily reduced assessment under Prop. 8. I think it is this second type of assessment adjustment that meadandale’s friend (see above) helps with.
As you can see – temporary adjustments to your assessment are not nearly as important as getting the base year adjustment right. It is fundamental to the Constitutionality of Prop. 13 that FMV is determined the same way in a bubble market as it is in an after bubble market. The assessor had no problem saying that purchase price was the FMV in a speculative, inflated market. He can’t change his tune as the market crashes. There is just no rational basis for such duplicity.
Yodle:
I don’t really know what to expect when I get before the board. I plan to go watch a few hearings in the months (or years) before my case gets called. Hopefully the assessor will call back and come to his senses so we can just settle on the purchase price. I believe I do have the right to the presumption that purchase price is fair market value. The assessor should have the burden of proving that the transaction was not arms length.
The condo was listed on the MLS for 90 days +, the price was reduced 3 times. When I first talked to the assessor he claimed that because it was an REO , purchase price did not represent FMV. The bank wasn’t in the business of holding property, his logic continued, so they must have sold it to me for less than FMV, which he can prove with comparables. My hope is that we don’t reach comparables. If so, I am prepared to differentiate them from my property, which was purchased as-is and in significant distress. My strategy – if necessary – is to argue that it was an arms length transaction – both parties represented by agents, property listed on MLS, paid asking price, etc… If I can establish that it was arms length – comparables should be irrelevant. I have case law to back up the letter I linked to above defining FMV=purchase price in arms length transaction. If we get to discovery, I guess I will turn over my receipts for bringing the place up to “same or similar condition” as the so called comparables.
If I lose the appeal, I should be a lawyer by then and I can pursue the appeal in Superior Court on my own. I’ll probably lose (no civil experience, pro se, bad idea) but I will at least get the experience.
Anyone:
If someone has appealed their base year assessment under similar facts I would love to know the outcome and your thoughts about the process.
ParticipantDuck:
To be clear, we are talking about two different types of assessments. First, when a property transfer occurs, there is a new base year assessment. The base year assessment DOES NOT change year-to-year and you have only 90 days to file an appeal. The assessor is allowed to increase your assessment 2% per year over the original base year assessment.
Second, at some point (now for many people) the current assessed value (base year plus annual adjustments) might exceed the market value of your property. Prop. 8 allows you to request that the assessor adjust your assessment (temporarily – as long as market conditions necessitate) to reflect market conditions. If the market goes up, the assessor can increase this temporarily reduced assessment as much as he wants as long as it does not exceed the base year assessment plus 2% per year since your date of purchase. There is no other limit on the upward adjustment of a temporarily reduced assessment under Prop. 8. I think it is this second type of assessment adjustment that meadandale’s friend (see above) helps with.
As you can see – temporary adjustments to your assessment are not nearly as important as getting the base year adjustment right. It is fundamental to the Constitutionality of Prop. 13 that FMV is determined the same way in a bubble market as it is in an after bubble market. The assessor had no problem saying that purchase price was the FMV in a speculative, inflated market. He can’t change his tune as the market crashes. There is just no rational basis for such duplicity.
Yodle:
I don’t really know what to expect when I get before the board. I plan to go watch a few hearings in the months (or years) before my case gets called. Hopefully the assessor will call back and come to his senses so we can just settle on the purchase price. I believe I do have the right to the presumption that purchase price is fair market value. The assessor should have the burden of proving that the transaction was not arms length.
The condo was listed on the MLS for 90 days +, the price was reduced 3 times. When I first talked to the assessor he claimed that because it was an REO , purchase price did not represent FMV. The bank wasn’t in the business of holding property, his logic continued, so they must have sold it to me for less than FMV, which he can prove with comparables. My hope is that we don’t reach comparables. If so, I am prepared to differentiate them from my property, which was purchased as-is and in significant distress. My strategy – if necessary – is to argue that it was an arms length transaction – both parties represented by agents, property listed on MLS, paid asking price, etc… If I can establish that it was arms length – comparables should be irrelevant. I have case law to back up the letter I linked to above defining FMV=purchase price in arms length transaction. If we get to discovery, I guess I will turn over my receipts for bringing the place up to “same or similar condition” as the so called comparables.
If I lose the appeal, I should be a lawyer by then and I can pursue the appeal in Superior Court on my own. I’ll probably lose (no civil experience, pro se, bad idea) but I will at least get the experience.
Anyone:
If someone has appealed their base year assessment under similar facts I would love to know the outcome and your thoughts about the process.
ParticipantDuck:
To be clear, we are talking about two different types of assessments. First, when a property transfer occurs, there is a new base year assessment. The base year assessment DOES NOT change year-to-year and you have only 90 days to file an appeal. The assessor is allowed to increase your assessment 2% per year over the original base year assessment.
Second, at some point (now for many people) the current assessed value (base year plus annual adjustments) might exceed the market value of your property. Prop. 8 allows you to request that the assessor adjust your assessment (temporarily – as long as market conditions necessitate) to reflect market conditions. If the market goes up, the assessor can increase this temporarily reduced assessment as much as he wants as long as it does not exceed the base year assessment plus 2% per year since your date of purchase. There is no other limit on the upward adjustment of a temporarily reduced assessment under Prop. 8. I think it is this second type of assessment adjustment that meadandale’s friend (see above) helps with.
As you can see – temporary adjustments to your assessment are not nearly as important as getting the base year adjustment right. It is fundamental to the Constitutionality of Prop. 13 that FMV is determined the same way in a bubble market as it is in an after bubble market. The assessor had no problem saying that purchase price was the FMV in a speculative, inflated market. He can’t change his tune as the market crashes. There is just no rational basis for such duplicity.
Yodle:
I don’t really know what to expect when I get before the board. I plan to go watch a few hearings in the months (or years) before my case gets called. Hopefully the assessor will call back and come to his senses so we can just settle on the purchase price. I believe I do have the right to the presumption that purchase price is fair market value. The assessor should have the burden of proving that the transaction was not arms length.
The condo was listed on the MLS for 90 days +, the price was reduced 3 times. When I first talked to the assessor he claimed that because it was an REO , purchase price did not represent FMV. The bank wasn’t in the business of holding property, his logic continued, so they must have sold it to me for less than FMV, which he can prove with comparables. My hope is that we don’t reach comparables. If so, I am prepared to differentiate them from my property, which was purchased as-is and in significant distress. My strategy – if necessary – is to argue that it was an arms length transaction – both parties represented by agents, property listed on MLS, paid asking price, etc… If I can establish that it was arms length – comparables should be irrelevant. I have case law to back up the letter I linked to above defining FMV=purchase price in arms length transaction. If we get to discovery, I guess I will turn over my receipts for bringing the place up to “same or similar condition” as the so called comparables.
If I lose the appeal, I should be a lawyer by then and I can pursue the appeal in Superior Court on my own. I’ll probably lose (no civil experience, pro se, bad idea) but I will at least get the experience.
Anyone:
If someone has appealed their base year assessment under similar facts I would love to know the outcome and your thoughts about the process.
ParticipantHere’s a link to a letter to county assessors from the state board of equalization regarding the definition of fair market value:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/89_06.pdfBasically, as long as you have completed a change in ownership statement (usually done by escrow company – included in your closing documents – must be filed with deed by closing agent otherwise there is an additional fee) you are entitled to a rebuttable presumption that the purchase price in an arms-length transaction is the fair market value. The assessor seems to think he can rebut this presumption with comparable property values. We’ll see how my appeal goes (purchase price $625K, base year assessment $725k).
It is very important that when you receive your first tax bill showing your new assessment, that you file for your appeal. You only have 90 days and then you’re stuck with that base year assessment. Unlike getting your assessment adjusted year-to-year under Prop. 8, your base year assessment sticks with you the entire time you own the property. This is your only chance to fix it. There is a .pdf pamphlet on the assessor’s site which explains your rights and the appeal process.
http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/cob/aab/index.html
The first step is to call the assessor’s office and ask to speak with the assessor assigned to your property. There’s a possibility that a higher assessment is just a clerical error. If not, if it is the result of a “reasoned” assessment, then you will have to appeal. File your appeal with the board using the forms on the assessor’s website. Once you get notice that your appeal was received, wait a month and call the assessor’s office again and speak to the same assessor you spoke to before – now that you have filed an appeal they can make an offer or stipulate to a lower base year assessment. If they do this and you are satisfied, you will not have to appear before the board. I’m waiting for a call back now… so I can’t speak first hand about the rest of the process.
ParticipantHere’s a link to a letter to county assessors from the state board of equalization regarding the definition of fair market value:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/89_06.pdfBasically, as long as you have completed a change in ownership statement (usually done by escrow company – included in your closing documents – must be filed with deed by closing agent otherwise there is an additional fee) you are entitled to a rebuttable presumption that the purchase price in an arms-length transaction is the fair market value. The assessor seems to think he can rebut this presumption with comparable property values. We’ll see how my appeal goes (purchase price $625K, base year assessment $725k).
It is very important that when you receive your first tax bill showing your new assessment, that you file for your appeal. You only have 90 days and then you’re stuck with that base year assessment. Unlike getting your assessment adjusted year-to-year under Prop. 8, your base year assessment sticks with you the entire time you own the property. This is your only chance to fix it. There is a .pdf pamphlet on the assessor’s site which explains your rights and the appeal process.
http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/cob/aab/index.html
The first step is to call the assessor’s office and ask to speak with the assessor assigned to your property. There’s a possibility that a higher assessment is just a clerical error. If not, if it is the result of a “reasoned” assessment, then you will have to appeal. File your appeal with the board using the forms on the assessor’s website. Once you get notice that your appeal was received, wait a month and call the assessor’s office again and speak to the same assessor you spoke to before – now that you have filed an appeal they can make an offer or stipulate to a lower base year assessment. If they do this and you are satisfied, you will not have to appear before the board. I’m waiting for a call back now… so I can’t speak first hand about the rest of the process.
ParticipantHere’s a link to a letter to county assessors from the state board of equalization regarding the definition of fair market value:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/89_06.pdfBasically, as long as you have completed a change in ownership statement (usually done by escrow company – included in your closing documents – must be filed with deed by closing agent otherwise there is an additional fee) you are entitled to a rebuttable presumption that the purchase price in an arms-length transaction is the fair market value. The assessor seems to think he can rebut this presumption with comparable property values. We’ll see how my appeal goes (purchase price $625K, base year assessment $725k).
It is very important that when you receive your first tax bill showing your new assessment, that you file for your appeal. You only have 90 days and then you’re stuck with that base year assessment. Unlike getting your assessment adjusted year-to-year under Prop. 8, your base year assessment sticks with you the entire time you own the property. This is your only chance to fix it. There is a .pdf pamphlet on the assessor’s site which explains your rights and the appeal process.
http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/cob/aab/index.html
The first step is to call the assessor’s office and ask to speak with the assessor assigned to your property. There’s a possibility that a higher assessment is just a clerical error. If not, if it is the result of a “reasoned” assessment, then you will have to appeal. File your appeal with the board using the forms on the assessor’s website. Once you get notice that your appeal was received, wait a month and call the assessor’s office again and speak to the same assessor you spoke to before – now that you have filed an appeal they can make an offer or stipulate to a lower base year assessment. If they do this and you are satisfied, you will not have to appear before the board. I’m waiting for a call back now… so I can’t speak first hand about the rest of the process.
ParticipantHere’s a link to a letter to county assessors from the state board of equalization regarding the definition of fair market value:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/89_06.pdfBasically, as long as you have completed a change in ownership statement (usually done by escrow company – included in your closing documents – must be filed with deed by closing agent otherwise there is an additional fee) you are entitled to a rebuttable presumption that the purchase price in an arms-length transaction is the fair market value. The assessor seems to think he can rebut this presumption with comparable property values. We’ll see how my appeal goes (purchase price $625K, base year assessment $725k).
It is very important that when you receive your first tax bill showing your new assessment, that you file for your appeal. You only have 90 days and then you’re stuck with that base year assessment. Unlike getting your assessment adjusted year-to-year under Prop. 8, your base year assessment sticks with you the entire time you own the property. This is your only chance to fix it. There is a .pdf pamphlet on the assessor’s site which explains your rights and the appeal process.
http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/cob/aab/index.html
The first step is to call the assessor’s office and ask to speak with the assessor assigned to your property. There’s a possibility that a higher assessment is just a clerical error. If not, if it is the result of a “reasoned” assessment, then you will have to appeal. File your appeal with the board using the forms on the assessor’s website. Once you get notice that your appeal was received, wait a month and call the assessor’s office again and speak to the same assessor you spoke to before – now that you have filed an appeal they can make an offer or stipulate to a lower base year assessment. If they do this and you are satisfied, you will not have to appear before the board. I’m waiting for a call back now… so I can’t speak first hand about the rest of the process.
ParticipantHere’s a link to a letter to county assessors from the state board of equalization regarding the definition of fair market value:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/89_06.pdfBasically, as long as you have completed a change in ownership statement (usually done by escrow company – included in your closing documents – must be filed with deed by closing agent otherwise there is an additional fee) you are entitled to a rebuttable presumption that the purchase price in an arms-length transaction is the fair market value. The assessor seems to think he can rebut this presumption with comparable property values. We’ll see how my appeal goes (purchase price $625K, base year assessment $725k).
It is very important that when you receive your first tax bill showing your new assessment, that you file for your appeal. You only have 90 days and then you’re stuck with that base year assessment. Unlike getting your assessment adjusted year-to-year under Prop. 8, your base year assessment sticks with you the entire time you own the property. This is your only chance to fix it. There is a .pdf pamphlet on the assessor’s site which explains your rights and the appeal process.
http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/cob/aab/index.html
The first step is to call the assessor’s office and ask to speak with the assessor assigned to your property. There’s a possibility that a higher assessment is just a clerical error. If not, if it is the result of a “reasoned” assessment, then you will have to appeal. File your appeal with the board using the forms on the assessor’s website. Once you get notice that your appeal was received, wait a month and call the assessor’s office again and speak to the same assessor you spoke to before – now that you have filed an appeal they can make an offer or stipulate to a lower base year assessment. If they do this and you are satisfied, you will not have to appear before the board. I’m waiting for a call back now… so I can’t speak first hand about the rest of the process.
Participantpencilneck – the FMV would be the purchase price, not the price after “repairing” the home. If however, you build substantial improvements, such as added square feet or a swim pool, then the home is subject to reassessment – basically your purchase price plus the added value of the substantial improvements. If all you are doing is repairing damage and making improvements within the existing footprint of the home, your home is not subject to reassessment.
Participantpencilneck – the FMV would be the purchase price, not the price after “repairing” the home. If however, you build substantial improvements, such as added square feet or a swim pool, then the home is subject to reassessment – basically your purchase price plus the added value of the substantial improvements. If all you are doing is repairing damage and making improvements within the existing footprint of the home, your home is not subject to reassessment.
Participantpencilneck – the FMV would be the purchase price, not the price after “repairing” the home. If however, you build substantial improvements, such as added square feet or a swim pool, then the home is subject to reassessment – basically your purchase price plus the added value of the substantial improvements. If all you are doing is repairing damage and making improvements within the existing footprint of the home, your home is not subject to reassessment.
Participantpencilneck – the FMV would be the purchase price, not the price after “repairing” the home. If however, you build substantial improvements, such as added square feet or a swim pool, then the home is subject to reassessment – basically your purchase price plus the added value of the substantial improvements. If all you are doing is repairing damage and making improvements within the existing footprint of the home, your home is not subject to reassessment.
Participantpencilneck – the FMV would be the purchase price, not the price after “repairing” the home. If however, you build substantial improvements, such as added square feet or a swim pool, then the home is subject to reassessment – basically your purchase price plus the added value of the substantial improvements. If all you are doing is repairing damage and making improvements within the existing footprint of the home, your home is not subject to reassessment.
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