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bubba99
Participant[quote=Djshakes][quote=bubba99]All of my coworkers, and many of my friends carry guns most of the time. My observations are that it really does not make them or society any safer. In fact it only makes a gun available to the first criminal who is strong enough to take it away.
Law enforcement officers (LEOs)are way too slow to shoot making them vulnerable to having their guns and lives taken. Non-LEOs are generally too slow and unskilled to be effective. And rarely do they take into account “whats behind the target”. Making their using a gun dangerous to bystanders.
Many bad guys have spent years in prison studying how to disarm citizens, lifting weights and to attack with such speed that even the best trained armed people are at risk.
21 feet is the magic distance. A skilled criminal within 21 feet, can probably kill an armed person before he/she can draw and fire.[/quote]
Armed robber is taking hostages and making threats. I would rather take my chances that a bystander shoots them instead of waiting for my time in the execution line.
You underestimate gun owners that respect and fire their weapons regularly. I guarantee half of them shoot better than some fat donut eating cop…or worse yet, some mall cop.[/quote]
Granted that not all police are proficient with their weapons – some dangerously inadequate. But the point I was trying to make is that a gun is not a panacea.
Shooting well at a target range is not the same as trying to fire while you are being shot at. All the fine motor skills go right out the window. If your stance and posture are good, you are not firing fast enough. And you can’t miss fast enough to stop a bad guy.
In the limited scenario you mentioned, maybe having a gun would be preferable, but more likely for most normal citizens (and mall cops) is they would only end up giving the bad guys another weapon.
And the worst case scenario is a good guy uses his gun to stop the bad guys, and when SWAT arrives he or she gets shot because we can’t tell the difference between a good and bad active shooter. Or worse you intervene in an undercover operation with police taking down bad guys, and kill a cop.
Only you cans answer if a gun is the right solution for you. Are you willing to kill a robber instead of giving up your wallet or fight him/her. Because with a gun you do not have the option of losing and giving up the weapon.
Participant[quote=Djshakes][quote=bubba99]All of my coworkers, and many of my friends carry guns most of the time. My observations are that it really does not make them or society any safer. In fact it only makes a gun available to the first criminal who is strong enough to take it away.
Law enforcement officers (LEOs)are way too slow to shoot making them vulnerable to having their guns and lives taken. Non-LEOs are generally too slow and unskilled to be effective. And rarely do they take into account “whats behind the target”. Making their using a gun dangerous to bystanders.
Many bad guys have spent years in prison studying how to disarm citizens, lifting weights and to attack with such speed that even the best trained armed people are at risk.
21 feet is the magic distance. A skilled criminal within 21 feet, can probably kill an armed person before he/she can draw and fire.[/quote]
Armed robber is taking hostages and making threats. I would rather take my chances that a bystander shoots them instead of waiting for my time in the execution line.
You underestimate gun owners that respect and fire their weapons regularly. I guarantee half of them shoot better than some fat donut eating cop…or worse yet, some mall cop.[/quote]
Granted that not all police are proficient with their weapons – some dangerously inadequate. But the point I was trying to make is that a gun is not a panacea.
Shooting well at a target range is not the same as trying to fire while you are being shot at. All the fine motor skills go right out the window. If your stance and posture are good, you are not firing fast enough. And you can’t miss fast enough to stop a bad guy.
In the limited scenario you mentioned, maybe having a gun would be preferable, but more likely for most normal citizens (and mall cops) is they would only end up giving the bad guys another weapon.
And the worst case scenario is a good guy uses his gun to stop the bad guys, and when SWAT arrives he or she gets shot because we can’t tell the difference between a good and bad active shooter. Or worse you intervene in an undercover operation with police taking down bad guys, and kill a cop.
Only you cans answer if a gun is the right solution for you. Are you willing to kill a robber instead of giving up your wallet or fight him/her. Because with a gun you do not have the option of losing and giving up the weapon.
ParticipantPoint taken, blaming any rable rouser for violence is misplaced. But blaming Bernake for the greatest robbery in history would probably be appropriate.
ParticipantPoint taken, blaming any rable rouser for violence is misplaced. But blaming Bernake for the greatest robbery in history would probably be appropriate.
ParticipantPoint taken, blaming any rable rouser for violence is misplaced. But blaming Bernake for the greatest robbery in history would probably be appropriate.
ParticipantPoint taken, blaming any rable rouser for violence is misplaced. But blaming Bernake for the greatest robbery in history would probably be appropriate.
ParticipantPoint taken, blaming any rable rouser for violence is misplaced. But blaming Bernake for the greatest robbery in history would probably be appropriate.
ParticipantAll of my coworkers, and many of my friends carry guns most of the time. My observations are that it really does not make them or society any safer. In fact it only makes a gun available to the first criminal who is strong enough to take it away.
Law enforcement officers (LEOs)are way too slow to shoot making them vulnerable to having their guns and lives taken. Non-LEOs are generally too slow and unskilled to be effective. And rarely do they take into account “whats behind the target”. Making their using a gun dangerous to bystanders.
Many bad guys have spent years in prison studying how to disarm citizens, lifting weights and to attack with such speed that even the best trained armed people are at risk.
21 feet is the magic distance. A skilled criminal within 21 feet, can probably kill an armed person before he/she can draw and fire.
ParticipantAll of my coworkers, and many of my friends carry guns most of the time. My observations are that it really does not make them or society any safer. In fact it only makes a gun available to the first criminal who is strong enough to take it away.
Law enforcement officers (LEOs)are way too slow to shoot making them vulnerable to having their guns and lives taken. Non-LEOs are generally too slow and unskilled to be effective. And rarely do they take into account “whats behind the target”. Making their using a gun dangerous to bystanders.
Many bad guys have spent years in prison studying how to disarm citizens, lifting weights and to attack with such speed that even the best trained armed people are at risk.
21 feet is the magic distance. A skilled criminal within 21 feet, can probably kill an armed person before he/she can draw and fire.
ParticipantAll of my coworkers, and many of my friends carry guns most of the time. My observations are that it really does not make them or society any safer. In fact it only makes a gun available to the first criminal who is strong enough to take it away.
Law enforcement officers (LEOs)are way too slow to shoot making them vulnerable to having their guns and lives taken. Non-LEOs are generally too slow and unskilled to be effective. And rarely do they take into account “whats behind the target”. Making their using a gun dangerous to bystanders.
Many bad guys have spent years in prison studying how to disarm citizens, lifting weights and to attack with such speed that even the best trained armed people are at risk.
21 feet is the magic distance. A skilled criminal within 21 feet, can probably kill an armed person before he/she can draw and fire.
ParticipantAll of my coworkers, and many of my friends carry guns most of the time. My observations are that it really does not make them or society any safer. In fact it only makes a gun available to the first criminal who is strong enough to take it away.
Law enforcement officers (LEOs)are way too slow to shoot making them vulnerable to having their guns and lives taken. Non-LEOs are generally too slow and unskilled to be effective. And rarely do they take into account “whats behind the target”. Making their using a gun dangerous to bystanders.
Many bad guys have spent years in prison studying how to disarm citizens, lifting weights and to attack with such speed that even the best trained armed people are at risk.
21 feet is the magic distance. A skilled criminal within 21 feet, can probably kill an armed person before he/she can draw and fire.
ParticipantAll of my coworkers, and many of my friends carry guns most of the time. My observations are that it really does not make them or society any safer. In fact it only makes a gun available to the first criminal who is strong enough to take it away.
Law enforcement officers (LEOs)are way too slow to shoot making them vulnerable to having their guns and lives taken. Non-LEOs are generally too slow and unskilled to be effective. And rarely do they take into account “whats behind the target”. Making their using a gun dangerous to bystanders.
Many bad guys have spent years in prison studying how to disarm citizens, lifting weights and to attack with such speed that even the best trained armed people are at risk.
21 feet is the magic distance. A skilled criminal within 21 feet, can probably kill an armed person before he/she can draw and fire.
ParticipantI was with you up until the Charles Manson reference. Most criminals are just that, but Charles Manson was not a natural phenomenon, he was created.
We sent Charles to prison at a very early age (13 I think). He was beaten, molested, and worse by the society that was supposed to “protect” him. His early childhood include episodes like being sold by his mother for a “pitcher of beer”. His moral view was developed by the worst that we as a society have to offer. He was more intelligent and charismatic than most, and his bent view of the world led him develop a group of like minded marginally attached followers.
Although his individual behavior was not predictable, the fact that we have thousands of like children in the same circumstances does predict that Helter Skelter was not the last insane act grown in our own prisons.
I see dozens of “bangers” every month that have committed like or worse crimes, just not to as famous a set of victims. Just a few miles south of Tucson in Nogales Sonora, the narco terrorists are now skinning their victims before be-heading them. Many developed their skills in our prison system. MS13, Los ZETAs are all a result of American decisions. Our prisons are just finishing schools for the criminally insane.
The shooting in Tucson was tragic, but not isolated. We are a violent society in a violent world. And we can hide it reasonably well until a “National Personality” is the victim.
ParticipantI was with you up until the Charles Manson reference. Most criminals are just that, but Charles Manson was not a natural phenomenon, he was created.
We sent Charles to prison at a very early age (13 I think). He was beaten, molested, and worse by the society that was supposed to “protect” him. His early childhood include episodes like being sold by his mother for a “pitcher of beer”. His moral view was developed by the worst that we as a society have to offer. He was more intelligent and charismatic than most, and his bent view of the world led him develop a group of like minded marginally attached followers.
Although his individual behavior was not predictable, the fact that we have thousands of like children in the same circumstances does predict that Helter Skelter was not the last insane act grown in our own prisons.
I see dozens of “bangers” every month that have committed like or worse crimes, just not to as famous a set of victims. Just a few miles south of Tucson in Nogales Sonora, the narco terrorists are now skinning their victims before be-heading them. Many developed their skills in our prison system. MS13, Los ZETAs are all a result of American decisions. Our prisons are just finishing schools for the criminally insane.
The shooting in Tucson was tragic, but not isolated. We are a violent society in a violent world. And we can hide it reasonably well until a “National Personality” is the victim.
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