Forum Replies Created
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BigGovernmentIsGood
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
Uh. I didn’t say anything about pollution, and neither did your original post. That is a different matter entirely. Regulating pollution is sensible as it prevents people from infringing upon the rights of others. Your post has to do with gas mileage – a decision I have the right to make for myself.[/quote]Actually, because pollution occurs during the extraction of oil, increasing mpg will reduce that pollution. One of the biggest ecological disasters in American history occurred as a result of attempted oil extraction this summer in the Gulf of Mexico. If mpg standards were higher, maybe we wouldn’t need to drill in such extreme environments. Wars waged to control oil fields also cause pollution.
In any event, the arguments you have made in this thread are incredibly simplistic. My son who is in the eighth grade makes more sound, logical, and compelling arguments. It’s great that you think you can make the mpg decision for yourself, but CAFE standards have been in place for a long time and are going up next year whether you like it or not. Hopefully, the mpg standards will continue to go up.
Feel free to continue to whine about how increasing mpg standards violates your precious rights. The majority of America disagrees with you, and I guess you will just have to live with that (unless you want to move to China).
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
Uh. I didn’t say anything about pollution, and neither did your original post. That is a different matter entirely. Regulating pollution is sensible as it prevents people from infringing upon the rights of others. Your post has to do with gas mileage – a decision I have the right to make for myself.[/quote]Actually, because pollution occurs during the extraction of oil, increasing mpg will reduce that pollution. One of the biggest ecological disasters in American history occurred as a result of attempted oil extraction this summer in the Gulf of Mexico. If mpg standards were higher, maybe we wouldn’t need to drill in such extreme environments. Wars waged to control oil fields also cause pollution.
In any event, the arguments you have made in this thread are incredibly simplistic. My son who is in the eighth grade makes more sound, logical, and compelling arguments. It’s great that you think you can make the mpg decision for yourself, but CAFE standards have been in place for a long time and are going up next year whether you like it or not. Hopefully, the mpg standards will continue to go up.
Feel free to continue to whine about how increasing mpg standards violates your precious rights. The majority of America disagrees with you, and I guess you will just have to live with that (unless you want to move to China).
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
Uh. I didn’t say anything about pollution, and neither did your original post. That is a different matter entirely. Regulating pollution is sensible as it prevents people from infringing upon the rights of others. Your post has to do with gas mileage – a decision I have the right to make for myself.[/quote]Actually, because pollution occurs during the extraction of oil, increasing mpg will reduce that pollution. One of the biggest ecological disasters in American history occurred as a result of attempted oil extraction this summer in the Gulf of Mexico. If mpg standards were higher, maybe we wouldn’t need to drill in such extreme environments. Wars waged to control oil fields also cause pollution.
In any event, the arguments you have made in this thread are incredibly simplistic. My son who is in the eighth grade makes more sound, logical, and compelling arguments. It’s great that you think you can make the mpg decision for yourself, but CAFE standards have been in place for a long time and are going up next year whether you like it or not. Hopefully, the mpg standards will continue to go up.
Feel free to continue to whine about how increasing mpg standards violates your precious rights. The majority of America disagrees with you, and I guess you will just have to live with that (unless you want to move to China).
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
Uh. I didn’t say anything about pollution, and neither did your original post. That is a different matter entirely. Regulating pollution is sensible as it prevents people from infringing upon the rights of others. Your post has to do with gas mileage – a decision I have the right to make for myself.[/quote]Actually, because pollution occurs during the extraction of oil, increasing mpg will reduce that pollution. One of the biggest ecological disasters in American history occurred as a result of attempted oil extraction this summer in the Gulf of Mexico. If mpg standards were higher, maybe we wouldn’t need to drill in such extreme environments. Wars waged to control oil fields also cause pollution.
In any event, the arguments you have made in this thread are incredibly simplistic. My son who is in the eighth grade makes more sound, logical, and compelling arguments. It’s great that you think you can make the mpg decision for yourself, but CAFE standards have been in place for a long time and are going up next year whether you like it or not. Hopefully, the mpg standards will continue to go up.
Feel free to continue to whine about how increasing mpg standards violates your precious rights. The majority of America disagrees with you, and I guess you will just have to live with that (unless you want to move to China).
Participant[quote=XBoxBoy]Please tell us, what are the advantages of regulation over taxation?
[/quote]I never said that regulation was better than taxation. Taxation is probably better because it would start inhibiting demand immediately. My guess is the environmental groups don’t push for increased gas taxes because they know that the public won’t support it. So they go for the next best thing which is increasing the CAFE standards.
I’m in favor of anything that will inhibit burning of fossil fuels, so I support both increasing the CAFE standards and increasing the gas tax. Unfortunately, I’m likely in the minority on the gas tax increase and thus have to live with the preferences of the majority which is no gas tax increases.
Participant[quote=XBoxBoy]Please tell us, what are the advantages of regulation over taxation?
[/quote]I never said that regulation was better than taxation. Taxation is probably better because it would start inhibiting demand immediately. My guess is the environmental groups don’t push for increased gas taxes because they know that the public won’t support it. So they go for the next best thing which is increasing the CAFE standards.
I’m in favor of anything that will inhibit burning of fossil fuels, so I support both increasing the CAFE standards and increasing the gas tax. Unfortunately, I’m likely in the minority on the gas tax increase and thus have to live with the preferences of the majority which is no gas tax increases.
Participant[quote=XBoxBoy]Please tell us, what are the advantages of regulation over taxation?
[/quote]I never said that regulation was better than taxation. Taxation is probably better because it would start inhibiting demand immediately. My guess is the environmental groups don’t push for increased gas taxes because they know that the public won’t support it. So they go for the next best thing which is increasing the CAFE standards.
I’m in favor of anything that will inhibit burning of fossil fuels, so I support both increasing the CAFE standards and increasing the gas tax. Unfortunately, I’m likely in the minority on the gas tax increase and thus have to live with the preferences of the majority which is no gas tax increases.
Participant[quote=XBoxBoy]Please tell us, what are the advantages of regulation over taxation?
[/quote]I never said that regulation was better than taxation. Taxation is probably better because it would start inhibiting demand immediately. My guess is the environmental groups don’t push for increased gas taxes because they know that the public won’t support it. So they go for the next best thing which is increasing the CAFE standards.
I’m in favor of anything that will inhibit burning of fossil fuels, so I support both increasing the CAFE standards and increasing the gas tax. Unfortunately, I’m likely in the minority on the gas tax increase and thus have to live with the preferences of the majority which is no gas tax increases.
Participant[quote=XBoxBoy]Please tell us, what are the advantages of regulation over taxation?
[/quote]I never said that regulation was better than taxation. Taxation is probably better because it would start inhibiting demand immediately. My guess is the environmental groups don’t push for increased gas taxes because they know that the public won’t support it. So they go for the next best thing which is increasing the CAFE standards.
I’m in favor of anything that will inhibit burning of fossil fuels, so I support both increasing the CAFE standards and increasing the gas tax. Unfortunately, I’m likely in the minority on the gas tax increase and thus have to live with the preferences of the majority which is no gas tax increases.
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.
You can read more about CAFE here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards
Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.
By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.
[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.
It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?
[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]
You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.
You can read more about CAFE here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards
Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.
By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.
[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.
It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?
[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]
You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.
You can read more about CAFE here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards
Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.
By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.
[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.
It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?
[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]
You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.
You can read more about CAFE here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards
Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.
By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.
[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.
It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?
[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]
You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.
You can read more about CAFE here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards
Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.
By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.
[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.
It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?
[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]
You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.
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