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June 8, 2012 at 4:24 PM in reply to: My next door neighbor was a cop, still under 60, been retired for more than 5 yrs #745335
bearishgurl
ParticipantThere are oil pumping stations just southwest and southeast of there. Could it be that an oil pipeline is being built to service communities to the north of there? The Navy owns “airspace land” directly north of there. If this is the case, the pipelines would have to go thru their land, which is likely not a problem.
ParticipantI paid $200 (contract rate thru Aetna Vital Savings) for one in January of this year. The whole thing took about and hour and 20 minutes.
June 8, 2012 at 3:59 PM in reply to: Question for those of you opposed to government pensions. #745330ParticipantAlways studying and brian:
Realize that my “experience” as a “military spouse” is dated as my (enlisted) ex-spouse retired 18 years ago and NEVER USED his Vietnam-era GI Bill (4 yrs of public college or university + small $400-ish monthly living stipend. I am unclear if he could now use it in “retirement” if he should so choose (he likely wouldn’t, in any case).
Nevertheless, he has continually been and is extremely successful in life!
At the time of our “retirement,” our housing allowance was just $688 mo! Housing allowances for enlistees went up exponentially in the 2000’s. I DO think they are ridiculously high and do not provide the member-family an incentive to live in military housing (with utils paid). They can rent a luxury 1 bdrm apartment and still have money left over for utilities and ALL the cable channels! And that’s without the spouse even working! A civilian married couple, both with GEDs and/or HS diplomas (similar to an E-4 in the military) with both working min wage jobs cannot afford to pay $1800-$1900 month (amt of current E-4 housing allowance) in rent and utilities!
I too, never lived on military housing but have been inside plenty of units in SD. At that time, they were managed by Navy civilians but were VERY spartan compared to today. What you see here now are newer construction units built for the Navy on non-Navy-owned land and complete gut/remodel jobs inside and outside of the older units on long-owned Navy land. I considered them “substandard” at the time. They used to have concrete floors, some with industrial asbestos-type tile or linoleum (similar to the ships) and vinyl “roller shades” in all the windows. The washer and dryer hookups were in the middle of the kitchen with the other kitchen appls. A tenant was allowed to furnish their own rugs if they wished. In two of the complexes, lines of metal trash cans were permanently chained to the sidewalk, being unlocked ONLY by the Navy’s own compactor personnel. These units were “serviceable” but had no other “redeeming qualities.”
For most all of “my era,” spouses were considered a frivolous accessory to a seabag but nevertheless gave an enlistee an additional $150-$300 mo (depending on rank) in “housing allowance” if he/she was married. Soldiers and sailors often marry young because the military has offered them a financial incentive to do so for about the last 40 years (in the form of a “housing allowance”) called “BAQ.” The SD area also had a small “VHA” added to that.
I know there has been a ramp-up of free services provided to enlistees’ families since about 2000, due to the intransigent problems I described earlier in the thread causing readiness for combat and retention problems among married members deployed to grueling back-to-back stints in war zones. Back in the day, it took 2.5 to 3 weeks for “snail mail” to reach a deployed member, due to all the APO/FPO channels it had to make its way thru. If they wrote back and put it in the ship’s PO, it didn’t leave the ship until it ported or a plane or helicopter took it off. They didn’t have access to a phone unless they got liberty at a port and called from a $1-$4 per minute pay phone (too expensive for a young family). The only way a spouse could send an “instant” message to the ship was to wait in long lines at a Red Cross facility with a prepared (limited-word) written message to be sent to the member’s ship, squadron or unit in Morse Code. Up until the early nineties (when they got 3 “free” retired local ham radio operators to send them), the spouses could only send “emergency messages” thru the Red Cross. Requests for these messages were required to have a doctor’s or funeral director’s statement submitted with them.
The naval hospital “suites” were not private and were divided only by cloth curtains which ended about 18″ from the floor. There were up to 36 patients in each “room” excepting the ICU. Champus (now Tricare) in San Diego could ONLY be used at military facilities unless there was no space (rare). There were only two mil pharmacy locations in the county, NAVHOSP and Camp Pendleton Hospital. NAVHOSP pharmacy was outside with a “bus stop” cover over it and wood and metal traincar benches all facing the number-pulling machine and the light showing which number was being served. The commissary cash registers were also outside with a similar cover over them, making it difficult to keep a cart of cold food cold standing in line in the summer.
Technology has allowed current military families to talk and even see their deployed spouse/parent nearly every day or at least once a week. It’s a whole ‘nother world now for military spouses and children. A much better gig than what was experienced by their forebears, who had to be the Jack or Jill of all trades and keep a stiff upper lip for the duration. A good portion of them bailed out of this “canoe club” (up sh!t creek w/o a paddle) very early on :=0
June 8, 2012 at 7:52 AM in reply to: My next door neighbor was a cop, still under 60, been retired for more than 5 yrs #745308Participant[quote=harvey]Ok, so SK has opted not to address the core issue at all (and continues to claim “victory” by nit-picking minor details.)
And just to set the record straight. Everybody here will have to wait till age 65 (and most till age 67) to collect full SS benefits:
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/agereduction.htm
So if is there no difference between public and private sector, why is all of this going on?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303918204577449410119033138.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
[…] voters in San Diego approved a ballot measure that will place all newly hired city workers, except police officers, into a 401k retirement plan.
So, according to SK’s claims, the ballot initiative changes nothing, since 401Ks and pensions are all the same (but I wonder why the unions have been so vigorously fighting it…)
Anybody else want to try answering the question?
Why should the pubic-sector be paid in a drastically different form than the private sector?[/quote]
pri, your hardheadedness is becoming annoying. Did you read my posts??
June 7, 2012 at 10:24 PM in reply to: My next door neighbor was a cop, still under 60, been retired for more than 5 yrs #745295Participant[quote=paramount]To answer your last question: Absolutely, yes. Maybe it’s the fear that motivates, just last week I worked 21 hours straight over 1 day. Got some sleep and then went right back to work.
Last week alone 25+ people were let go.
There is NO sense of job security; that is understood.
Pension Gone: Check
Vacation Time: Cut in half
401k: What a joke, 50% up to 3%. I cashed mine out last year (more or less) and bought a second house. To this day I still think it was a good idea (sort of), but who knows…
Medical Benefits: Bare bones, I have so many medical bills (and for routine stuff) I literally can’t keep track.
Sick Time Gone: Check
Job Security Gone: Check
Holidays Lost: Check
And on and on…
I’d say in 2006 we probably had 2000+ employees on site, today certainly less than 1000.[/quote]
paramount, it sounds like you (and your fellow “co-workers”) need to be unionized … and PRONTO!
Participant[quote=Hobie]Me thinks, is got to be air venting / access for the fresh water aquaducts.[/quote]
Except the “CA Aqueduct” ends at least 215 miles away from SD in the Los Padres Nat’l Forest: (Pigg Desmond’s “territory”)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Aqueduct
I think uco needs to take an “in-person” look at it.
See: http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-26/local/me-3090_1_live-explosives
June 7, 2012 at 9:22 PM in reply to: My next door neighbor was a cop, still under 60, been retired for more than 5 yrs #745290Participant[quote=paramount]pssst, BG. Come over here for a second, I have secret to tell you since you seem to live in another world.
In a competitive state like California where the masses are lined up to take your job, and without union protection; can you guess what happens when you don’t perform in the private sector?
YOU GET FIRED!!!!!!![/quote]
Uhhhh, paramount, I’m a (deferred) “retiree.” I could care less who has “taken” my (former) “job.” Go for it!!!
[quote=paramount]One last thing, I watched probably 1000 people get walked out of our building in the last few years and for the most part were not replaced… [/quote]
That’s really sad :=(
How do you think this happened, paramount?
Sounds like each “remaining employee” at your employer is having to “pick up the slack” for 2+ former employees. How many employees DID you have working there (before the riffs/layoffs) and how many employees are there NOW??
One last question. Doesn’t this make you feel like you might be next??
Participant[quote=sdduuuude][quote=bearishgurl]sdduuuude, I’m wondering why it is you have stated you want to move (to CV?) if Clairemont is your “hometown.” Do I have this correct?? Why not try to score a canyon rim property in the coming months (if you don’t already own one) and call it a day? If you already own there and can’t get the price you want from your current home, consider renting it out. As you’re probably aware, there is a great demand for rental homes in Clairemont.[/quote]
That is exactly the plan, bg. Rent out our current canyon home and move to CV. Let the kids live in it during college, if we can afford to let them live there rent-free.
Tucson is my hometown :)[/quote]
Aaahh, another transplanted “Aridzonian.” (They don’t call ’em that for nothing, you know ;=])
Participant[quote=ucodegen][quote=bearishgurl]uco, this area was notorious in prior decades for having buried ordinance of WWII-era military shells and artillery found (even AFTER residential development) and is just south of the now-defunct “Camp Elliot.” Perhaps a new “spec builder” is taking every precaution and shaving the land prior to laying foundations.
Just my (somewhat “educated”) guess to explain these photos.[/quote] Considering the vertical shaft.. I don’t think so. One of these looks like a tunnel entrance. I think you may have only looked at the first link without zooming in.. When you first select the link, it looks like the area has just been ‘cleared’.. zoom in one step and all of a sudden you see a large gaping square shaft. I suspect Google is using two image sources. The one that just shows a flat area is older than the one that shows the shaft.. which is more recent. The thing must have been constructed within the past year or so.
The thing on the trailer on the bottom edge of the cleared out area is a high power portable generator.. somewhere around 250KW or more (250KW is the bottom end for that size )[/quote]
uco, if there are any access roads to the site, why don’t you drive out there and have a look for yourself!
June 7, 2012 at 8:14 PM in reply to: My next door neighbor was a cop, still under 60, been retired for more than 5 yrs #745282Participant[quote=harvey]…More importantly, why can’t anyone address the core issue:
Why should public-sector employees receive compensation in a vastly different form the rest of population?
Can we answer without a semantic nitpick?…[/quote]
I’ll answer it, pri. Public employees can be compared to “indentured servants.” Much like members of military service, as a public employee, you are (figurately) “owned” by the organization you work for. You are often held to much higher standards of behavior (on and off the clock) than persons employed in the “private sector.” If you accepted a job 2 miles from your home and your employer later decides they need you in their “branch office” which is 30 miles from your home, you must begin working where they need you (this is often done strictly for “retaliatory reasons”). The “rules and regulations” regarding behavior and integrity exhibited (on and off the clock) is up for departmental or agency scrutiny. For example, as other Piggs have posted, a public employee’s “short sale” or foreclosure could spark disciplinary action by a public employer, on a case-by-case basis. In other words, as a public employee who was hired with a 750+ FICO score and then year(s) later, files a chapter 7 BK, they better be able to prove it to their employer that the filing was to discharge catastrophic medical bills due to an accident/illness not of their own fault.
Believe me when I tell you that public agencies have persons employed in “administration” whose only duties are to diligently follow the “private lives” of the agency’s employees. And they are very persistent, often using high-ranking “lackeys” or “henchmen” to do whatever “dirty work” this “official” thinks needs to be done.
A typical non-exempt public employee is also required to account for (on paper) all of their time on “the clock.” There is usually always a higher-ranking worker present to observe each employee’s arrival and departure (arrives early and leaves late). Whatever time employees are absent from their “post” or cannot readily be reached by phone (while working in the “field”) must be documented by a “leave slip,” written for “sick” or “annual” leave.
A public employee can very easily use up his or her entire annual vacation leave on personal errands (overflow from lunch hr) and being “late” for work due to traffic. A non-exempt public employee does not have the right to make up time lost in the workday by staying late. This is often “against the rules.”
“Exempt” public employees (far and few between) are a different animal and could feasibly get away with working part-time for a full-time salary (IF they have a “cooperative” administrative staff). But most carry the weight of everything that can and will go wrong with their respective departments/agencies. If they are appointed officials and not elected, they could politically “fall out of favor with the PTB” very quickly and be summarily dismissed by the elected PTB without the civil service protections of their “rank and file.” In any case, elected officials may not last in their positions past the four years they were elected to serve by the voters and thus, never “vest” in the retirement system if they have no prior public service.
It’s not all as it appears. That’s why I have repeatedly told the faction of Piggs repeatedly lamenting about how “unfair” public employee retirement packages are to apply for one or more of these jobs themselves and go thru the recruitment process (which will undoubtedly be “instructional” even if not hired).
And then there’s that pesky “20+ years” where one has to devote their lives to continually pleasing their current “supervisors” in succession in order to actually qualify for that “lofty” pension.
The “typical Pigg” that blogs online during the business day (on the clock) and then slides across the hall or up the elevator to the “company cafeteria” for today’s lunch special of endive salad with angula while watching a wide-screen OR visits the “company gym” for a lunchtime “yoga fusion” or “tai-chi” class and then brings a “company-made smoothie” back to their desk lives in whole ‘nother world than a public employee.
Another difference between public and private employees is that public employees at every level of government stationed in the “downtown” area of major cities do NOT receive paid parking unless they are the top brass, that is, unless they are employed as the executive, “unclassified” agency or department leaders. All of the “rank and file” workers receive a monthly “parking allowance” which amounts to 1/2 to 2/3 of the cost of monthly public parking lot decal for a lot situated 3-12 minutes walk from their worksite. The rest is “out of pocket.” However, public transit passes are typically 100% paid for by the employer.
How is a public agency going to retain employees for the duration under these conditions without offering them a “pension” at the end of their “faithful service?” Do you honestly think it is preferable for these “specialized jobs” (to the employer-agency’s business) should experience frequent turnover? Have you really any idea how long it takes a new employee to learn all the nuances regarding the position they occupy and also how it relates to their employer-agency’s overall mission?
Hint: It takes far, far longer than the initial “probationary period.”
Participant[quote=ucodegen]…Ok guys.. This is a little OT to the thread.. but looking around the neighborhood on Google.. I saw this. What the heck is it? Looks like there is some underground tunneling going on around there. Anybody heard anything? The square hole is large enough to drop a truck down it.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=32.835619,-117.073113&ll=32.835611,-117.073075&spn=0.002241,0.001953&num=1&t=h&z=19If you don’t see anything there.. just zoom in one step… or move the map a bit.
Another one here.. same story with ‘zooming’..
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=32.829802,-117.069098&num=1&t=h&z=19
And here..
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=32.840004,-117.0795&num=1&t=h&z=19%5B/quote%5D
uco, this area was notorious in prior decades for having buried ordinance of WWII-era military shells and artillery found (even AFTER residential development) and is just south of the now-defunct “Camp Elliot.” Perhaps a new “spec builder” is taking every precaution and shaving the land prior to laying foundations.Just my (somewhat “educated”) guess to explain these photos.
Participant[quote=svelte]How much does it really cost to raise kids?
It cost me all of my hair.
And I’d still be losing more if I could. Just cuz they are 21 doesn’t mean they stop adding stress to my life. But at least I can shrug and say “it’s your problem now, bud”.
This has been a rough month…[/quote]
LOL…
June 7, 2012 at 6:10 PM in reply to: Question for those of you opposed to government pensions. #745278Participant[quote=briansd1]Regardless of the semantics and the details, $1/2 million NPV for the pension is in the low range. Add medical, spousal benefits, educational subsidies, VA mortgages, etc… and we end up with much more.
As harvey mentioned, can we afford this largesse?
BG, BTW, my good buddy is a retired Navy pilot and we talk about it. He knows he got a great deal.
As the real estate “expert” in our group of friends, I even helped him buy his house with a no money down VA loan.
He did sleep on ships and barracks in his younger days. But later in his career, when he was in Korea for 2 years on assignment, the government rented him a luxury $3,500 per month (nomimal money in the early 2000’s) apartment in central Seoul.
The government trained him straight out of college, and gave led him all the way. He had a lot of time off and goofed around a lot.
Most of us in the private sector have to provide our own training else companies won’t hire us.[/quote]
brian, your “Navy pilot” friend was an officer. Always studying was an enlistee who entered the service right out of HS. There is a chasm of difference. Did your “Navy officer” friend remain single throughout his career? The typical “enlistee” marries and has kids early and if their spouse proves not to be self-reliant and supportive of their “career” (incl repeated and back-to-back deployments), their “civilian lives” can easily spiral into a living nightmare. To spend likely their entire military career earning 6+ years worth of college credits part-time is asking A LOT of their spouses and family. Even in the rare instances when they are actually home for long-stretches, they are studying. This is NOT the norm for enlistees. Most of them return home to a mismanaged quagmire that needs to be unraveled (mostly financial mismanagement by the spouse and spouse desertion … yes, even with the kids :=0). I don’t have to tell you that the divorce rate is sky-high among enlistees.
Active-duty military are eligible for “housing,” but it is not “free.” Their housing allowance is garnished from their pay when they live in housing. It can be a “hardscrabble existence” for a spouse stuck in housing with kids as the vast majority of enlisted spouses are not “locals” and have never lived away from “home” and many have even written a check in their lives! Many, many of them abandon military housing in the middle of deployments and move back to their “home state” to parents’ houses with their kids in tow, leaving their sponsors to “clean up the mess” upon return. Some never move into military housing at all. They remain in their “home state” with parents and await return of the deployed spouse.
It’s a culture shock for an 18-23 yo military spouse with kids from rural USA to be dumped in the middle of a SD military housing project days or weeks before their spouse deploys.
Alway studying has come a lo-o-o-ng way, IMO.
Participant[quote=no_such_reality]June 7, 2012: A little closer to SD for you.
Sweetwater School boardmember returns to work at Southwestern College after pleading not guilty to 8 felony corruption chargesWarehouse employee reinstated after pornography and masturbation accusation Apparently watching porn on a cell phone may be part of their duties.
“After conducting a hearing in May, Commissioner Francesca Krauel on Wednesday said she found the employee had watched about 90 seconds of pornography on a cell phone while at work but saw no proof he fondled himself.
Krauel said warehouse employees sometimes view pornography as part of their duties, which include storing property left by people who die without a will.
She added that the worker admitted his conduct was inappropriate but she thought the punishment was too extreme.”[/quote]
re: Arlie Ricasa – the “fat lady” hasn’t sung in her case yet and you’re already making assumptions. The “DA” has gotten overnight “search warrants” to raid many, many offices and homes over the last few decades. A good portion of these “raids” were later found to be retaliatory and an invasion of privacy in subsequent civil litigation.
re: the Public Administrator whse worker: Cmsr Krauel is correct. A 90-day suspension was in order for inappropriate viewing of porn on county time. The employee’s “supervisor” obviously “made up” the “fondling part” expressly to “trump up the charges to termination level.” When push came to shove and he/she couldn’t bring in “witnesses” to the “fondling” (or they ended up going “south” on him/her on the stand), the Dept lost their case. None of this is uncommon in the county’s “Kangaroo Court.” Nor it is uncommon at all for a “supervisor” to trump up disciplinary charges on a subordinate with whom they consider a “rival” or have deep-seated jealousies of which go wa-a-a-a-y back … yes, even to childhood :=0
Sadly, nothing will likely happen to the supervisor, even though he/she caused their Department to incur many thousands in salary for unworked time and also legal representation by County Counsel, for which they were billed. It’s all “funny money” which was removed from their annual “budget.”
Just look at the public comments on the UT article. An “Estate Mover” has got to be THE sh!ttiest job in the county! Literally. The County Public Administrator handles estates of decedents who die intestate and their “heirs,” if any, cannot be located. The vast majority of these decedents were “recluses” and also renters. The landlord wants their property back but more often than not, the decedents hoarded all manner of things and trash and their residences are emptied out by “Estate Movers” (classification of the “subject employee”). The Job bulletin for this position states, in part (not exact language). “Able to lift 50 lbs repeatedly and use moving dollies. Requires frequent stair-climbing while moving boxes and furniture. Working conditions include the wearing of face masks working in closed-in spaces with rodents, insects, urine and feces present.”
I have no doubt these workers routinely find stacks of porn also, both in print and video.
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