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bearishgurl
Participant[quote=flyer]As usual, you’re absolutely right, flu.
I guess I was just trying to make the point that it seems many believe that the “ultimate education” will immediately transport their children to their desired destination, but it’s really much more complicated than that–because, as you have mentioned before–the competitiion is fierce–especially in CA.
For example, two of my kids acquired executive positions in the entertainment industry, just out of college (definitely their “dream jobs.”)
The competition was incredible–Ivy MBA’s like them at every interview–but, some friends in the industry came through, and it made all the difference.
So, I’m really just saying, that, from my experience, whatever your kid’s dream job turns out to be, it just might take more than a diploma to get them there.[/quote]
I agree that “who” you know is very important, flyer. My kid(s) took their first job (semi-professional) from being interviewed several times by companies familiar with their college programs and who knew their dept head and instructors. Subsequent (professional) positions were offered to them from “who” they knew at the first job who defected to another company and wanted them aboard at the new company.
I ALSO believe my kid(s) success has just as much to do with their relocation to SF, establishing themselves over several years there and meeting many, many people along the way. There are ten times as many “professional positions” available at any given time there (incl SV) than in SD County. For a SD County resident who is a recent college grad, I feel they must be willing to relocate at the drop of a hat for a good position if they have moved “back home” after graduation. My kid(s) success ALSO comes from working throughout college and doing internships and so had plenty of work experience upon accepting their first “real job.”
My message to young local college graduates is to interview as much as possible out of county/state and relocate to take a job offered to you (especially if in your field) and don’t look back. At that point, you don’t know what your life will bring you. You could end up back in SD County at the age of 30, 40, 50 or 60+!
Too many local college graduates only want to work locally and don’t understand why they are waiting tables and shlepping parts at Pep Boys.
spdrun is right. TAKE THE GOOD JOB offered to you in your field, even if away from home! Plane tix are “cheap” and are the least of a recent grad’s worries at this point. Esp ones who have huge student loans looming! Believe it or not, there ARE airports in KS City, Tulsa, Birmingham, Talahassee, Cleveland and Des Moines. You can live CHEAP in those places while paying your student debt off!
Participantscaredy, I think the first/second time CA bar pass-rate is MUCH higher for those candidates who already have 20+ years work experience in the field. Most of these candidates would have attended (part time) the CalWesterns and ThomasJefferson’s of the world, close to their day jobs, methinks.
This has been my experience working with coworkers aged 40+ at the time of entering law school. They got out, took the bar exam, passed and paid off their small student debt while still on their “day jobs” (waiting to get hired as an attorney). Sometimes that took an additional three years or they ended up leaving their employer to take an attorney job at another firm if they felt it would be just as secure. Others stayed working at paralegals (with their JD’s and bar license in hand) in order to completely retire their law school debt.
It is much harder and takes much longer to retire large student loans today.
I’m with jwizzle that I wouldn’t spend any money at all on a non-ABA accredited school … not even a non-ABA accredited paralegal school. It’s not worth it and limits the graduate’s options as to where they can work, or, as a paralegal, where they can remain certified. A young graduate has their whole lives ahead of them and anything can happen.
No matter how “smart” a prospective law student/bar candidate might be or think they are (believe it or not, I think I could pass the bar on the first try :=0), there comes a time in one’s life where they have to realize their ship already sailed in this regard and thru a cost-benefit analysis come to the conclusion that they wouldn’t likely be able to recoup their investment in law school/barbri etc through working as an attorney. Practically speaking, and due to the dearth of job openings combined with rampant (legal) age discrimination, I think this cutoff age is about 45-47 years old in SD (the last possible age to be successfully hired as a *new* attorney). In most cases, the time and expense element of law school is just too great for mid-career adults who already have established family obligations.
And I don’t think its a wise business move for new attorneys to strike out on their own, esp in this economic climate.
Participant[quote=spdrun]http://www.centralnewyorkinjurylawyer.com/2011/10/new-york-legal-malpractice-ins.html
About a grand a month for people I know. Interestingly, not required in NY nor CA if one wants to live dangerously :)[/quote]
CA atty clients are VERY litigious (lol). Should we be surprised?
An attorney would be a fool to take on clients’ cases/problems without malpractice insurance in place. In skipping it, he/she would expose themselves (and possibly their families) to tremendous liability.
A large percentage of clients who come to attorneys for help have problems which were brought forward too late, the client did not follow the proper procedure to resolve it PRIOR to seeking legal counsel and/or are not completely fixable for a variety of reasons. The attorney has to decide what they can (now) do for the client (if anything) and if it is worth it for him/her and the client to pursue the problem at whatever juncture the client decided to pursue it.
These potential “cases” aren’t as “cut and dried” as they may seem.
Participant[quote=spdrun]bearishgurl – what’s the term for a specialist attorney that works closely with several firms as well on niche matters?
Two examples:
(1) A patent lawyer with engineering and math degrees from MIT, who also happens to speak six languages and advises firms on international intellectual property disputes.
(2) A 40-something lady who has a disabled kid and primarily stays home to take care of her family. But she also used to have a disability law firm when the child was younger, and still advises other firms on her area of expertise…..[/quote]spdrun, this is all well and good if it happens in NY…
In another vein, in the absence of “getting hired” by a firm, a newly-minted atty can’t “solicit” clients on their own w/o malpractice insurance already in place. Do you have any idea how much these premiums are??
And a new attorney starting out as a “sole practitioner” has to pay their first malpractice ins premium before they even start taking on their first client and collecting their first retainer fee!
Participant[quote=spdrun]If you can graduate with little/no debt and have attorney recs, what’s wrong with going of-counsel for a small firm or two, as well as soliciting clients of your own soon after passing the bar?[/quote]
spdrun, in CA, the “of counsel” attorneys (who simply lend their [prestigious] names to a firm’s stationery, are usually current or former partners of a firm (now “retired”), who only “show up” when the firm needs counsel on certain subjects in certain cases. They also “counsel” other attorneys in the firm by phone.
In SD, the “of counsel” attorneys are overwhelmingly 70+ years old.
Participant[quote=squat250]one way law school could make sense:
you just get an A.A. degree (you do NOT need a 4 year degree to sit for the bar in CA; check the rules); and then go to a super cheap small law school. say 8k a year. pay as you go and pass the bar.
if you’re debt free, you can maneuver better out there…graduating law school with zero debt could work out very well…
flu, if you tell that plan to other tiger parents, they will think you are super low class…[/quote]
scaredy, I looked into this about 11-12 years ago.
At that time, WSLS (located in LM back then) was about $~18K or for tuition for all three years to law school (now it is ~$30K). At that time, a candidate could have submitted letters of recommendation from attorneys they worked for in lieu of a “bachelor’s degree” for admission purposes.
I decided against spending the money and time (until midnight 1-2 nights week), because, in real life, I could (seriously) successfully argue a motion before a judge w/my hands tied behind my back. But that wasn’t the point. The reality is, (at least here in SD) that no firm wants to hire an over-50 newly-minted lawyer (or “experienced” paralegal, for that matter). Among other concerns, their health insurance premium is much too high.
Regardless of how I feel about it, I have to accept reality.
******
I think it would be *difficult,* at best, for a young person to be able to be admitted to law school (even Western Sierra) on attorney recommendations alone. There is no way they’ve had the time to work long enough under attorney(s) to obtain the type of “recommendations” who would be sufficient to get them admitted into law school, IHMO.
On the surface, it “sounds good” that there are schools out there willing to take law school candidates without a bachelor’s degree. But the “experience requirement” for admission is a “catch 22” for the multitude of candidates that would actually apply to a school like this (20-somethings).
I think the window to be admitted to a school such as WSLS is about 35-40 years old, where the non-bachelor degree candidate is old enough to have ~15 years of experience in law firms but young enough to recoup their investment in law school by way of getting hired … hopefully immediately upon passing the bar exam.
Participant…[Keckley] predicted Medicare will eventually evolve into a managed care model, with payments made to a team of caregivers with incentives attached to keep patients well.
He also predicted that medical care in general will become more “holistic,” incorporating aspects of acupuncture, yoga, and wellness as a way to keep people healthy for longer into their senior years…
Not sure about the “teams” unless they include holistic health practitioners (in place of pill-pushing MDs), but I feel it is often “too late” to try to keep patients 75+ years old “well” when many have been drinking, smoking, drugging, dipping, sunning, etc and binging on fast food for the bulk of their lives. By then, their “holistic” treatment … and holistic mindset … should have begun 30-40 years prior.
Conditions arising from former abuse of one’s body can’t easily be fixed well after the fact. A large portion of the over 50 crowd has the health issues they do solely because of their chosen lifestyles and even “settling” throughout their lives for unhealthy working environments.
Participant[quote=jstoesz]Have you thought of the central coast? San luis obispo feels like how California should be. Friendly, stress free with beauty and an abundance of recreation. It doesn’t have the uppity so cal vibe of santa barbara. Also, better weather than anywhere in San Diego. You could also buy much more than two acres, and they may even come with vines. There is no finer place in the country, I am convinced of it.[/quote]
Good suggestion jstoesz. I thought of that area as well. Outside of SLO, I’m fairly certain one can raise chickens and other farm animals, as well.
Kishy (if you ever check back in), the beaches outside of SLO (Pismo/Avila Beach) are VERY “low key” compared to more urban parts of CA.
jstoesz, just an FYI that it’s almost ski season again! I hope you’re able to find a little sledding hill in MN to amuse yourself with! You might have to end up using your plane tix for Reno … just to get the same fix you drove <45 mins for last season :=0
Participantmartin, in the wake of recent budget cuts, those “guaranteed admission” programs to SDSU have now gone by the wayside.
Congrats to your niece for being able to likely finish her bachelor degree in four years out of state. Hopefully, she won’t incur too much debt from student loans.
I didn’t get a bachelor’s degree, either, martin. However, I have no excuse for not getting it as SDSU was about $150 per semester for 12+ units (FT) when I was “college age.” Yes, I said ~$150. That works out to $12.50 or less per semester hour! CC was actually “free” at the time. In addition, I had nearly a 31 on the ACT exam and likely could have had my pick of schools!
I was the envy of all my college-student friends back then, busy and making plenty of money working and buying RE and a new vehicle while they trekked along with two pairs of jeans, worn hiking boots, a backpack and a bicycle.
Now some of those old friends who got bachelor degrees are likely retiring with a lot more money than I will. And of course, some likely never used their bachelor degrees and/or never worked or worked very little throughout their lives.
I have pensions so am too old to care anymore :=0
Participant[quote=flu][quote=squat250]he doesnt have a plan.
he is open to the universe.
he is extremely interested in everything in the world.
community college.[/quote]
Well, does he know what he doesn’t want to do?
I knew I didn’t want to be a doctor because I hated biology and I suck at memorizing things… Maybe you can spend some time having your son hang out with your or your wifey at work..My dad took me to work…He tried to convince me not to be an enginerd because he told me it was the ticket to being in the poorhouse… I didn’t listen…..But he was right. Same thing happened to my sibling. Except my sibling listened and realized bioengineering was worse than underwater basket weaving…Ended up going to work on wall street. Best decision sibling made.[/quote]
Great idea, flu!
scaredy, does your employer have a “Take your kid to work day?” Does your son have a pair of Dockers or dress pants? You can have your son accompany you into the “felony arraignment/dispo tank” inside the courtroom and hold your clipboard of “Change of Plea” forms for you while he listens to you explain the ramifications of a “change of plea” to all of your affected chained and jump-suited clients, one by one.
He could learn valuable life lessons while at the same time observe thru his senses the working conditions of your “lofty professional position.”
I think kids (esp his age) should see for themselves what their parents go thru everyday so that they can have the kind of lives they have :=]
Participant[quote=spdrun]F— reciprocity — that’s a Band-Aid solution, and who wants to attend school in a desert hellhole like Zonieland anyway? In-state should for sure have priority over foreigners and out of state. At the very least, overt discrimination against CA residents should be prohibited. That’s the way it works in my former home state of NJ.[/quote]
I tried to talk my last kid into ASU, spdrun. No dice . . . they weren’t at all interested. They have taken our little dog out there in enough gas-station runs to hear it scream every time because it’s little feet burned so bad….
My kid even laughed at the suggestion …. they’ve got their sights set on UCSB. We’ll see . . . lol
Participant[quote=spdrun]State university, not necessarily in CA. No point in paying for high school remedial stuff in community college.[/quote]
spdrun, I’m all for this, since nearly ALL CA university campuses are getting to be “impacted.” But the problem herein lies in the out-of-state tuition, which is roughly 270% of in-state tuition in whichever state one is considering.
As I stated here:
http://piggington.com/dysfunctional_dishonest_insane_intolerable
Submitted by bearishgurl on October 23, 2012 – 11:51am.
..A high school grad with a 3.5 to 3.75 GPA was not a “bad student.” I feel a “qualified” CA HS grad who attended all 13 years of their public school in CA “deserves” to be admitted to a university in their home state.
“Qualified” does not necessarily mean only 4.77 GPA HS grads (with multiple HS AP credits)…
Due to CA’s severe budget cuts heavily impacting programs and admissions numbers, I feel that the CA UC Regents and the CSU Board of Trustees needs to vote to give qualified CA residents with CA HS diplomas first priority in admissions over out-of-state and foreign students. The CA universities currently are leaning towards admitting those non-resident applicants over residents (who will pay much higher fees).
If their program cuts and admission practices continue on for even one more academic year like they have been for the last ~7 years, they will have the effect of causing 85-90% of CA HS students to have to “give up” on a public university degree in CA, IMO.
What’s happening here in CA is that nearly ALL resident HS grads with less than a 3.9 cumulative GPA will be turned down for CA university admission (as freshmen) in the future, relegating them to the underfunded and soon-to-be-chaos community colleges. When families can’t afford to pay out-of-state or private college tuition, the masses of CA HS grads who want an eventual bachelor’s degree will be stuck going to CC and hoping they can get all their GE credits in a timely manner to transfer into university in the future. After obtaining the needed ~60 units at CC (in 2-5 yrs, lol), they will then have to deal with the reality that once accepted into a UC or CSU program as a junior, they likely will not be able to finish their remaining ~60 units in two years … or even three years, all the while paying $500 to $800 per semester hour and paying for housing in SB, LA, SF, Berkeley, Irvine and other high-priced locales.
I believe qualified CA HS grads should be given the option to attend out-of-state universities for in-state tuition on a “space-A” basis. CA’s unsustainable ability to provide a college education to its residents (to whom it owes a “duty,” IMHO) would be more “palatable” if there were (at least a dozen or so) “reciprocation agreements” in place such as the one with ASU (AZ) where qualified CA-resident HS grads could qualify for in-state tuition at out-of-state universities where impaction is not such a problem (at less populous states). It is actually cheaper to pay for housing (or “rent” a relative’s back bdrm for your student) in some of these “flyover states” than it would be at CSU Merced or Fresno!
There is NOTHING preventing a (CA-resident) student who obtained their bachelor’s degree in KS, for instance, to return to CA to live and work after graduation. Leaving the state to go to college is simply a means to an end . . . to be accepted into a university as “high-avg” HS student with a ~3.7 GPA and perhaps 6-15 AP credits and to be able to finish in four years.
There’s something to be said for a student being able to finish their degree work on time, making them able to get a FT job in their field right after graduation, instead of paying $2500+ per semester to a CSU campus in years 5, 6 and 7 for <=5 credit hours at a time to obtain needed 300 and 400-level classes which are only offered every 4th or 5th semester (in the middle of the business day, of course), due to "budget cuts." At this rate, the student "degree candidate" is wasting precious years (and $$) in trying to get on with their lives.
Participant[quote=svelte]Over the last 4 years we have bought 2 sectionals (over 13 ft each) and 2 sofas for our house.
The sofas were $600 for 2 (Mor), one sectional was $2K the other $2.5K (both Macy’s).
So far – they have all been great – none shows any sign of wear…and the Mor cheapies get hours of use each day!
And I wouldn’t worry too much if you see a few people online bitch about sagging/wear. There were several complaining about our $2.5K sectional online and it has been perfect. I think some people could find fault in anything.
We are actually looking for one more couch, then we will be full up in all our rooms.[/quote]
Sounds like you have a great setup for a Pigg party, svelte ;=]
Participant[quote=flyer]It is interesting to note that, although neither my wife and I, nor any of the parents of our kids friends considered ourselves to be “tiger parents,” and yet, all of our kids excelled at everything from school, to sports, to music, etc. and on and on, and yet the success rate of these same young people (now in their 20’s) is still only about 50%.
Although they came from quite well-to-do families, we still hear many of our kids friends complaining about the fact that they can’t find high-level jobs here, and will never be able to afford a home in San Diego, or CA in general, (for those who wish to stay here)so it seems some of them have kind of given up. A sad, but fascinating conundrum.[/quote]
flyer, I think the reason a lot of “20-somethings” and even those a little older (even though “educated”), state that they can’t find “high level jobs in SD” and they’ll “never be able to buy a house in SD” is due to their “expectations” about both that previous generations did not have.
Perhaps they’re not willing to take positions they feel are “beneath them” in order to move up within an organization. Perhaps they’re not willing to “settle” for a house (buy OR rent) in an area they can actually afford. I’m sure it must be doubly hard for kids who grew up in or near RSF to “manage their housing expectations.” Of course, after “having it all in SD Co,” these kids wouldn’t want to relocate (out of state or to the SF Bay area, perhaps?) to get a better-paying job. Every locale they visit (for housing OR a job) will seem inferior to where they grew up.
With very privileged kids, there’s no “hunger” there for a better life … nothing really to “aspire to” which would rival the life they had while growing up. You were fortunate to be able to instill a good work ethic in your kids in spite of their “privileged” upbringing, flyer.
I think some parents (of ALL walks of life) make it easy for their adult children to just postpone all big life decisions (FT job/place to live, etc) because their door is always open. Thus, their kids are repeatedly bouncing “back home” with parent(s) and instead of saving money while there, they buy new vehicles (with payments) and new “gadgets.” 3++ years later, they are still living in their childhood home and are very comfortable.
My kids aren’t perfect but they are very realistic and “street smart.” I see them buying a building with 2-3 flats (likely in SF) in the coming 1-2 yrs. They have plans to gut (if needed) and fix up 1-2 of the units to rent out and live in the best unit themselves, while collecting rent.
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