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Participant[quote=deadzone][quote=FlyerInHi]Seems to me camel valley are not just about good schools with high API like in any other part of the country.
It’s next to a UC, the tech/biotech golden triangle. You have kids whose parents work in competitive fields that require intelligence. Great diversity in a pleasant, upscale, beach close environment. Easy to understand the premium.[/quote]What is the “great diversity” you speak of? I bet you could count on one hand the number of black or Hispanic kids that go to Carmel Valley schools.[/quote]LoL, where you stand depends on where you sit. Here’s the student statistic for Torrey Pines HS: http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2014/apiavgSch.aspx?allcds=37683463730033
ParticipantI did some more digging into the bay area. I think the bay area have detached itself in the last 20 years. There’s some detachment of Cupertino as well. But this data shows that bay area wasn’t always crazy priced. Here’s some examples:
Millbrae: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Millbrae/1253-Lake-St-94030/home/1246917
1996: $638,000
2015: $2.9MCupertino: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20615-Rodrigues-Ave-Cupertino-CA-95014/19634856_zpid/
1996: $371k
2015: $2.8MPoway: http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-150000379-13957_Pequot_Poway_CA_92064
1996: $525k
2015: $1.1MCarmel Valley: http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-150023820-4915_Riding_Ridge_Rd_San_Diego_CA_92130
1996: $350k
2015: $1.1MSorrento Valley: http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-150023146-5623_Glenstone_Way_San_Diego_CA_92121
1996: $313k
2015: ~850kSome very interesting data IMHO from the last 20 years. I wonder where we go from here.
Will Cupertino and CV continue their trajectory? If so, 20 years from now the Cupertino house would be ~$21M and the Carmel Valley house would be ~$3.4M. My opinion of the bay would be very different in 1996 than it is today.
Participant[quote=njtosd]Probably much more correlated to parental achievements and outcomes than those of high school classmates. I am a firm believer in the power of genetics. Hard to tease out, though, as successful parents will often raise their children in above average school districts. Freakonomics has a couple of great articles that relate to this point. For example, academic achievement is correlated to the number of books in a home …..even if the children living there don’t read the books. Reason: Smart parents tend to buy more books and also tend to have smart kids. I am beginning to understand where calvin’s idea of predestination came from (although i don’t subscribe to the philosophy). Also – there was a finding that kids who watched “Baby Einstein” videos ended up achieving less well academically than those who didn’t watch. I have my theories about that one – ie low achieving parents more interested in pushing smart baby toys on their children. Nature seems to trump nurture in many instances ….[/quote]I agree with everything you said. But I don’t have data to back it up, which is why I would love to see these kind of data. I’m a big believer of nature trump nurture too, but I do think nurture does bring out the best in what nature allow.
I’m wondering, assuming the same parents and the same kids, would the kids perform best in Carmel Valley with both parents working long hours or in much less expensive areas and have one parent stay at home and be extremely involved in the children’s education. I’m sure there no data to back up either side, but would be an interesting study.ParticipantI’d love to see stats of 7+ figure net worth and the HS they graduated from. I’d also love to see divorce rates and suicide rates too.
ParticipantBG, show me data where you see 45% lower pay scale compare to SF. Instead of making up numbers, show me based on real data. You can start here: http://salary.com/.
According to salary.com, hotel manager in SD make a median of $106k/year: http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Hotel-Manager-Salary-Details-San-Diego-CA.aspx. Hotel Manger in SF makes a median of $122k: http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Hotel-Manager-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx.
Human Resources Generalist IV in San Diego make a median of $93k/year: http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Human-Resources-Generalist-IV-Salary-Details-San-Diego-CA.aspx, while in SF, the median is $107k/year: http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Human-Resources-Generalist-IV-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx. So, where’s your 2-3x comparison? Both profession show a 15% pay increase, a far cry from the 65% you’re claiming. So, I’ve showed my data, where’s yours? Feel free to show me a profession in SF that have a median salary 65% above SD’s salary.
As for your claim about us young people not making enough to leave home. It’s all hearsay and BS. I’m in that category you’re referring to and have many friends who are in that category. We would like to say that your statement is BS and unfounded. I’m not even the most well off person in my circle. Some of my friends are now optometrist and owning their own practice, doctors working at hospital, sr. engineering managers, CTO of startups, Engineering directors, etc. I can go on, but you get my point.
Participant[quote=spdrun]Low property taxes.[/quote]Exactly. If you play the long game, prop 13 is a miracle. When I retire, my COL will be well less than $1k/month, assuming no inflation. If we see an average of 3% inflation, then it would be <$350/month in today's dollar. If we see a repeat of the 70s/80s inflation, then I'll be golden.
Participant[quote=spdrun]^^^
Risking having your butt shot isn’t very cushy.[/quote]
You can’t get your butt shot being an engineer at a depot repairing/maintaining/managing ships/aircrafts in San Diego. I didn’t say be an active military. You can be an engineer civilian working for the military.Participant[quote=flu]Your opinion doesn’t matter. Ask all the ex-employees from BAE or Northrop Grumman in Rancho Bernardo that were downsized over the past few years.
If you want a cushy job with sub-optimal pay, you can work for a defense contractor that is just in maintenance mode in the bay area as you would here. There would probably be a cost of living adjustment for that too.[/quote]
If you really want cushy jobs with sub-optimal pay, you’d work for the military directly.Participant[quote=spdrun]I don’t see the naval facilities, Pendleton, Miramar, etc going anywhere any time soon. That’s why the defense contractors are in SD and will likely remain.
The people I know are busy, but they still work fairly normal hours by NY or SF standards.[/quote]
That’s true. They are consolidating the bases on the West coast to San Diego as well. So, I don’t see military presence in SD going away anytime soon. If anything, it might grow due to the consolidation as well as the transitioning from traditional warfare to cyber warfare.Participant[quote=flu]Lol, you’re lucky to even get the recruiters to bite by them offering you a 15-25% bump. In recent times, I’ve never been successful getting them to even offer that. I must have done a decent job negotiating my package here in SD because whenever I get a recruiter to call from the bay area asking me to relocate, I mention the cost issue with the bay area, and they immediately tell me about the 15-25% bump. But then when we actually start talking about numbers, they end up saying 15-25% is too much and then try to tell me about “pre-ipo” shares when some of the companies are only in the 2nd stage of funding…. And of course, good luck trying to get an early stage startupto offer with pre-ipo shares with a non-dilution clause..Most enginerds aren’t important enough for them to do that. I had one recruiter that asked me if I was sure my comp was in SD markets….lol… I guess this also means that when/if I do get axed, I’m going to need to take a significant paycut down here…Because when you turn 40ish, it’s never a question if, it’s a question of when…lol….[/quote]15-25% is in the whole range of experiences and across all the companies. Google and Facebook would pay you 20-25% more. Startups probably will pay you 0% more but pitch the IPO options. Apple is probably in the 10-15% range. So, again, it really depend on which company. QCOM increase your salary by 10-15% if you relocate from SD to bay area. I know other companies that give you a similar 10-15% COL adjustments for the move.
Participant[quote=bearishgurl]
You wouldn’t have a 40-60 min commute if you bought a WWII box in Northern SM County (San Bruno Millbrae, Belmont, Redwood City …. even East Palo Alto) for $700-$900K and moved in, enabling you to eventually position yourself for that $300K salary level you were posting about.[/quote]You serious don’t know what you’re talking about. In Millbrae, there’s only 1 house for sale <$1M. https://www.redfin.com/CA/Millbrae/508-Lomita-Ct-94030/home/1951087. It's listed at $999k. Same with Belmont, there's only 1 for sale <$1M: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Belmont/618-Hiller-St-94002/home/1708651, listing at $949k for a 3/1 1000 sq-ft. Redwood City school sucks and I wouldn't want to subject my kids to that crap. Same with East PA.Where do you get that an average enginerd will be able to make $300k (assuming you don't hit the IPO lottery)? I would call BS. I know a few enginerds at my age and they're making less than I am, yet they're in the bay area. When I interview with companies up there, when I passed the technical part and we start talking about salary, that's where it breaks down. Salary are between 15-25% higher than SD, that's what recruiters tell me. They would offer more stocks but with my luck, I would end up picking a company that wouldn't hit the IPO lottery.
[quote=bearishgurl]I understand all the reasons you cited for wanting to remain in SD earning a (forever) lowered salary. You even forgot to mention your nearby family members to help you with your kid(s). That's huge! [/quote]I don't need to mention nearby family members, because even if I don't have family near by, I still would come up with the same conclusion. Lower gross income, yes, I agree. Lower net income after COL? I doubt it. Not only would you have to pay higher taxes, higher COL, but you would also lose out many tax breaks because your gross income is higher than certain threshold.
[quote=bearishgurl]But, there you have it. Your "peers" in SV have the potential to eventually make 2-3 times your salary but they have to make certain sacrifices to do so. (Namely, remain in smaller, older living quarters and live with relatively high winds for years if they want to be relatively close to work.) You've made the choice to stay in your hometown which happens to be in a region with the best climate in America and are willing to pay the price to do so. The price you're paying is giving up a big portion of your lifetime salary and upward mobility. Fair enough?[/quote]Again, I call BS on the 2-3 times my salary without hitting the IPO lottery. I don't think I'm giving up a big portion of my lifetime salary and upward mobility by living here vs moving to the bay. As I said, if the salary is 2-3 times it is here, I would have moved. But it's not. I'm perfectly happy with my upward mobility so far. I know I'm not being held back wrt upward mobility by being here. Like I said early, I'm getting paid more than my peers in the bay with a higher title and responsibility.
ParticipantBut he gets to keep the building and the land of hte U-T’s head quarter. How much is that worth? It’s a huge prime real estate. Is it worth $35M? He’s also seeking to build 200 luxury apartments there. So, maybe that was his plan all along, since RE is what he’s good at.
Participant[quote=joec]I think Los Altos is a much nicer area than Mountain View as well as a lot of places west of the that freeway that goes N/S west of the 101. Forget which, maybe 280.[/quote]Yes, Los Altos is much nicer than MV. Same goes for Cupertino, Los Gatos, PA, Saratoga, etc. IMHO, the only reason MV is expensive is its proximity to high paying tech workers.
ParticipantBG, you’re hilarious. Comparing a place that would take you 40-60 minutes commute to a place that’s 10-15 minutes from high paying job centers? You should be comparing those bay area places to Temecula if you what to compare apple to apple (i.e. commute time).
I would pick MM over Mt. View any day, purely because of the schools. I’m not sure if $300k is even enough for me to maintain my life style in the bay area. It might end up having to be $400-500k. I expect to have the same living standard when I compare different cities. I don’t care how old an area is. I don’t care if there are a billion jobs in the bay. It doesn’t do me any good if I have to downgrade my living standard. That is what I mean when I expect to be paid $x in order to make me move. Which is why I’m still in SD instead of moving to the bay. I’m sure if I really wanted to, I could find a job up there pretty easily. But why would I want to, when I get better weather here and a much better living standard? I would only want to sacrifice my weather if I can get a better living standard. If I have to sacrifice both weather and living standard, why would I would to another nondescript suburb? I would shoot myself after 1 month if I have to commute 30+ minutes to work. My limit for a sane commute is 20 minutes with no traffic or 10 minutes with traffic. Life is way too short to put yourself through hell. Especially when the working life span of a tech worker is pretty short.
I would also pick Carmel Valley/La Jolla/Del Mar/RSF over Cupertino too. For $3M, I rather have an enclave in RSF or a house with ocean view in La Jolla/Del Mar over a nondescript tract home in Cupertino. But that’s just me. -
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