[afx114]

[quote=deadzone]Bigger picture, learing additonal languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]

Unless you work in retail in San Diego. Like it or not, Spanish is pretty much a requirement for a retail job in the southwest, even if it’s not officially stated as so.

[afx114]

[quote=deadzone]Bigger picture, learing additonal languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]

Unless you work in retail in San Diego. Like it or not, Spanish is pretty much a requirement for a retail job in the southwest, even if it’s not officially stated as so.

[afx114]

[quote=deadzone]Bigger picture, learing additonal languages here in U.S. is totally worthless if you don’t actually spend significant amount of time overseas actually using the language.[/quote]

Unless you work in retail in San Diego. Like it or not, Spanish is pretty much a requirement for a retail job in the southwest, even if it’s not officially stated as so.

[afx114]

[quote=weberlin]Who said anything about instant assimilation (other than you)?

Immigrant assimilation in the US starts with language. Can you imagine someone moving to China without expecting to learn Chinese?

Let’s be clear about what assimilation means. It does not mean abandoning historical cultural practices or language. Assimilation means adjusting to and adopting to the established practices of the new country.

Obviously, this takes time, and will vary for older vs. younger immigrants. Regardless, anyone who immigrates to the US should make efforts to become proficient in English.[/quote]

No need to get defensive, I was simply sharing my thoughts on the subject. I agree with you that efforts should be made to learn the language of whatever country one moves to. My point is that if it doesn’t happen, it’s not a big deal. If I moved to China and made no attempt to learn Chinese, how is that an affront to China? No doubt my children and their children would be speaking Chinese quicker and better than myself. I don’t see a problem with this, but I guess apparently some people do.

[afx114]

[quote=weberlin]Who said anything about instant assimilation (other than you)?

Immigrant assimilation in the US starts with language. Can you imagine someone moving to China without expecting to learn Chinese?

Let’s be clear about what assimilation means. It does not mean abandoning historical cultural practices or language. Assimilation means adjusting to and adopting to the established practices of the new country.

Obviously, this takes time, and will vary for older vs. younger immigrants. Regardless, anyone who immigrates to the US should make efforts to become proficient in English.[/quote]

No need to get defensive, I was simply sharing my thoughts on the subject. I agree with you that efforts should be made to learn the language of whatever country one moves to. My point is that if it doesn’t happen, it’s not a big deal. If I moved to China and made no attempt to learn Chinese, how is that an affront to China? No doubt my children and their children would be speaking Chinese quicker and better than myself. I don’t see a problem with this, but I guess apparently some people do.

[afx114]

[quote=weberlin]Who said anything about instant assimilation (other than you)?

Immigrant assimilation in the US starts with language. Can you imagine someone moving to China without expecting to learn Chinese?

Let’s be clear about what assimilation means. It does not mean abandoning historical cultural practices or language. Assimilation means adjusting to and adopting to the established practices of the new country.

Obviously, this takes time, and will vary for older vs. younger immigrants. Regardless, anyone who immigrates to the US should make efforts to become proficient in English.[/quote]

No need to get defensive, I was simply sharing my thoughts on the subject. I agree with you that efforts should be made to learn the language of whatever country one moves to. My point is that if it doesn’t happen, it’s not a big deal. If I moved to China and made no attempt to learn Chinese, how is that an affront to China? No doubt my children and their children would be speaking Chinese quicker and better than myself. I don’t see a problem with this, but I guess apparently some people do.

[afx114]

[quote=weberlin]Who said anything about instant assimilation (other than you)?

Immigrant assimilation in the US starts with language. Can you imagine someone moving to China without expecting to learn Chinese?

Let’s be clear about what assimilation means. It does not mean abandoning historical cultural practices or language. Assimilation means adjusting to and adopting to the established practices of the new country.

Obviously, this takes time, and will vary for older vs. younger immigrants. Regardless, anyone who immigrates to the US should make efforts to become proficient in English.[/quote]

No need to get defensive, I was simply sharing my thoughts on the subject. I agree with you that efforts should be made to learn the language of whatever country one moves to. My point is that if it doesn’t happen, it’s not a big deal. If I moved to China and made no attempt to learn Chinese, how is that an affront to China? No doubt my children and their children would be speaking Chinese quicker and better than myself. I don’t see a problem with this, but I guess apparently some people do.

[afx114]

[quote=weberlin]Who said anything about instant assimilation (other than you)?

Immigrant assimilation in the US starts with language. Can you imagine someone moving to China without expecting to learn Chinese?

Let’s be clear about what assimilation means. It does not mean abandoning historical cultural practices or language. Assimilation means adjusting to and adopting to the established practices of the new country.

Obviously, this takes time, and will vary for older vs. younger immigrants. Regardless, anyone who immigrates to the US should make efforts to become proficient in English.[/quote]

No need to get defensive, I was simply sharing my thoughts on the subject. I agree with you that efforts should be made to learn the language of whatever country one moves to. My point is that if it doesn’t happen, it’s not a big deal. If I moved to China and made no attempt to learn Chinese, how is that an affront to China? No doubt my children and their children would be speaking Chinese quicker and better than myself. I don’t see a problem with this, but I guess apparently some people do.

[afx114]

I’ve mentioned this before in previous discussions, but one thing natives don’t seem to realize is that assimilation can never be instant. You always carry with you a part of your past. Full assimilation takes generations, usually three, at which time the original immigrant’s culture is all but lost.

1) Immigrant arrives, sticks mostly with their native culture/language/etc.
2) Immigrant’s children are “inbetweeners.” They have one foot in each culture, speak both languages and have embraced their new culture, but still think fondly of their parents’ culture.
3) Immigrant’s grandchildren are fully assimilated. Most of their grandparent’s language/culture is lost. 100% KFC/Taco Bell/Justin Beiber/America Fuk Yah!

Anecdotally I’ve seen this in many immigrant families, no matter where they are from (China, Mexico, etc). I see grandparents (original immigrants) who can’t communicate with their grandchildren due to the language differences. And the grandchildren look at their grandparents as a relic from another world to the point of being embarrassed that their grandparents don’t speak the language or eat “weird non-American food.”

This is why I believe the call for instant assimilation is unwarranted. It will happen naturally over time. It always has and always will.

[afx114]

I’ve mentioned this before in previous discussions, but one thing natives don’t seem to realize is that assimilation can never be instant. You always carry with you a part of your past. Full assimilation takes generations, usually three, at which time the original immigrant’s culture is all but lost.

1) Immigrant arrives, sticks mostly with their native culture/language/etc.
2) Immigrant’s children are “inbetweeners.” They have one foot in each culture, speak both languages and have embraced their new culture, but still think fondly of their parents’ culture.
3) Immigrant’s grandchildren are fully assimilated. Most of their grandparent’s language/culture is lost. 100% KFC/Taco Bell/Justin Beiber/America Fuk Yah!

Anecdotally I’ve seen this in many immigrant families, no matter where they are from (China, Mexico, etc). I see grandparents (original immigrants) who can’t communicate with their grandchildren due to the language differences. And the grandchildren look at their grandparents as a relic from another world to the point of being embarrassed that their grandparents don’t speak the language or eat “weird non-American food.”

This is why I believe the call for instant assimilation is unwarranted. It will happen naturally over time. It always has and always will.

[afx114]

I’ve mentioned this before in previous discussions, but one thing natives don’t seem to realize is that assimilation can never be instant. You always carry with you a part of your past. Full assimilation takes generations, usually three, at which time the original immigrant’s culture is all but lost.

1) Immigrant arrives, sticks mostly with their native culture/language/etc.
2) Immigrant’s children are “inbetweeners.” They have one foot in each culture, speak both languages and have embraced their new culture, but still think fondly of their parents’ culture.
3) Immigrant’s grandchildren are fully assimilated. Most of their grandparent’s language/culture is lost. 100% KFC/Taco Bell/Justin Beiber/America Fuk Yah!

Anecdotally I’ve seen this in many immigrant families, no matter where they are from (China, Mexico, etc). I see grandparents (original immigrants) who can’t communicate with their grandchildren due to the language differences. And the grandchildren look at their grandparents as a relic from another world to the point of being embarrassed that their grandparents don’t speak the language or eat “weird non-American food.”

This is why I believe the call for instant assimilation is unwarranted. It will happen naturally over time. It always has and always will.

[afx114]

I’ve mentioned this before in previous discussions, but one thing natives don’t seem to realize is that assimilation can never be instant. You always carry with you a part of your past. Full assimilation takes generations, usually three, at which time the original immigrant’s culture is all but lost.

1) Immigrant arrives, sticks mostly with their native culture/language/etc.
2) Immigrant’s children are “inbetweeners.” They have one foot in each culture, speak both languages and have embraced their new culture, but still think fondly of their parents’ culture.
3) Immigrant’s grandchildren are fully assimilated. Most of their grandparent’s language/culture is lost. 100% KFC/Taco Bell/Justin Beiber/America Fuk Yah!

Anecdotally I’ve seen this in many immigrant families, no matter where they are from (China, Mexico, etc). I see grandparents (original immigrants) who can’t communicate with their grandchildren due to the language differences. And the grandchildren look at their grandparents as a relic from another world to the point of being embarrassed that their grandparents don’t speak the language or eat “weird non-American food.”

This is why I believe the call for instant assimilation is unwarranted. It will happen naturally over time. It always has and always will.

[afx114]

I’ve mentioned this before in previous discussions, but one thing natives don’t seem to realize is that assimilation can never be instant. You always carry with you a part of your past. Full assimilation takes generations, usually three, at which time the original immigrant’s culture is all but lost.

1) Immigrant arrives, sticks mostly with their native culture/language/etc.
2) Immigrant’s children are “inbetweeners.” They have one foot in each culture, speak both languages and have embraced their new culture, but still think fondly of their parents’ culture.
3) Immigrant’s grandchildren are fully assimilated. Most of their grandparent’s language/culture is lost. 100% KFC/Taco Bell/Justin Beiber/America Fuk Yah!

Anecdotally I’ve seen this in many immigrant families, no matter where they are from (China, Mexico, etc). I see grandparents (original immigrants) who can’t communicate with their grandchildren due to the language differences. And the grandchildren look at their grandparents as a relic from another world to the point of being embarrassed that their grandparents don’t speak the language or eat “weird non-American food.”

This is why I believe the call for instant assimilation is unwarranted. It will happen naturally over time. It always has and always will.

[afx114]

[quote=CA renter]BTW, we regularly use the sidewalks in our neighborhood, as do most of our neighbors; it’s a very walkable neighborhood because of the sidewalks and front yards. I think you have a distorted view of what suburban neighborhoods are like and why people prefer to live in them.[/quote]

I wouldn’t say that sidewalks alone are what make a neighborhood “walkable.” My idea of “walkable” is having destinations that you can walk to — parks, restaurants, bars, grocery stores, coffee shops, movie theaters, entrainment, etc. If you need a car to do any of these things, I don’t think that qualifies the neighborhood as “walkable.” Just an opinion coming from a city dweller who grew up in the ‘burbs.

Speaking of the suburbs, has anyone checked out Arcade Fire’s new record? It’s called “The Suburbs” and covers some interesting territory regarding the burbs and sprawl — memories from growing up in the burbs and the empty feeling you get returning to them when you’re older. An entire album about the suburbs! Highly recommended for the poignant social commentary. Some sample lyrics:

“Kids wanna be so hard
But in my dreams we’re still screamin’ and runnin’ through the yard
And all of the walls that they built in the seventies finally fall
And all of the houses they build in the seventies finally fall
Meant nothin’ at all
Meant nothin’ at all
It meant nothin”

“You started a war
That you can’t win
They keep erasing all the streets we grew up in”

“They heard me singing and they told me to stop
Quit these pretentious things and just punch the clock
‘Cause on the surface the city lights shine
They’re calling at me, come and find your kind
Sometimes I wonder if the World’s so small
That we can never get away from the sprawl
Living in the sprawl
Dead shopping malls rise like mountains beyond mountains
And there’s no end in sight
I need the darkness, someone please cut the lights”

“Took a drive into the sprawl
To find the house where we used to stay in
Couldn’t read the number in the dark
You said let’s save it for another day

Took a drive into the sprawl
To find the places we used to play
It was the loneliest day of my life
You’re talking at me but I’m still far away”

[afx114]

[quote=CA renter]BTW, we regularly use the sidewalks in our neighborhood, as do most of our neighbors; it’s a very walkable neighborhood because of the sidewalks and front yards. I think you have a distorted view of what suburban neighborhoods are like and why people prefer to live in them.[/quote]

I wouldn’t say that sidewalks alone are what make a neighborhood “walkable.” My idea of “walkable” is having destinations that you can walk to — parks, restaurants, bars, grocery stores, coffee shops, movie theaters, entrainment, etc. If you need a car to do any of these things, I don’t think that qualifies the neighborhood as “walkable.” Just an opinion coming from a city dweller who grew up in the ‘burbs.

Speaking of the suburbs, has anyone checked out Arcade Fire’s new record? It’s called “The Suburbs” and covers some interesting territory regarding the burbs and sprawl — memories from growing up in the burbs and the empty feeling you get returning to them when you’re older. An entire album about the suburbs! Highly recommended for the poignant social commentary. Some sample lyrics:

“Kids wanna be so hard
But in my dreams we’re still screamin’ and runnin’ through the yard
And all of the walls that they built in the seventies finally fall
And all of the houses they build in the seventies finally fall
Meant nothin’ at all
Meant nothin’ at all
It meant nothin”

“You started a war
That you can’t win
They keep erasing all the streets we grew up in”

“They heard me singing and they told me to stop
Quit these pretentious things and just punch the clock
‘Cause on the surface the city lights shine
They’re calling at me, come and find your kind
Sometimes I wonder if the World’s so small
That we can never get away from the sprawl
Living in the sprawl
Dead shopping malls rise like mountains beyond mountains
And there’s no end in sight
I need the darkness, someone please cut the lights”

“Took a drive into the sprawl
To find the house where we used to stay in
Couldn’t read the number in the dark
You said let’s save it for another day

Took a drive into the sprawl
To find the places we used to play
It was the loneliest day of my life
You’re talking at me but I’m still far away”

[Author]

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