Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › Younger workers everywhere
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bearishgurl.
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February 18, 2016 at 7:18 AM #794462February 18, 2016 at 8:34 AM #794465
Myriad
ParticipantBuilders build what the market wants. Sprawl is always going to happen even with high rises replacing SFR in inner city areas. Look at Hong Kong. Even with all the high rises, apartments are some of the most expensive in the world. So the younger workers buy apartments in high rises 15 miles from HK center in the New Territories. But the city is smart and builds massive mass transit infrastructure.
But with more density, you get more mass transit options.
One interesting change will be autonomous vehicles. Then long commutes won’t matter as much because people can do work/play etc on commutes. No need to find parking in inner cities, boomers can age in place, etc.February 18, 2016 at 8:35 AM #794466Participantduplicate
February 18, 2016 at 11:26 AM #794468FlyerInHi
Guest[quote=Myriad]Builders build what the market wants. [/quote]
Only to the extent government allows it.
The housing products that we get are really decided by urban planners who meet annually at conferences. I’m surprised that people are not more upset about that kind of government intrusion into the housing market.We can vote with our feet, but it’s not that easy to do.
[quote=Myriad]
Sprawl is always going to happen even with high rises replacing SFR in inner city areas.
[/quote]Math wise, taller buildings reduce the need for sprawl.
Look at commuting distances of older cities vs. newer cities.
[quote=Myriad]
Look at Hong Kong. Even with all the high rises, apartments are some of the most expensive in the world. So the younger workers buy apartments in high rises 15 miles from HK center in the New Territories.
[/quote]Immigration (from China into HK) and population density. HK is a special case. It was, and still in in many ways, the conduit for trade with China.
[quote=Myriad]
But the city is smart and builds massive mass transit infrastructure.
But with more density, you get more mass transit options.
[/quote]Density came first. In American cities that saw post WWII growth, we want it the other way around, which is anti-market because, without density, there is no rideship for transit.
[quote=Myriad]
One interesting change will be autonomous vehicles. Then long commutes won’t matter as much because people can do work/play etc on commutes. No need to find parking in inner cities, boomers can age in place, etc.[/quote]Yes, very interesting. Maybe urban planners will be swayed in allowing buildings with less parking, or no parking.
I do believe that millenials are changing how we live in a good way.
Boomers are needy people; as they age, they will want to be near their kids closer to the cities. (Boomers are the first generation that treated their kids are friends also).
I need to live another 50-60 years to see how my predictions turn out. I think I will be vindicated.
February 18, 2016 at 2:16 PM #794475bearishgurl
Participant[quote=no_such_reality]Good sized fixer in Hayward hills. Do you mean this one?
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Hayward/25072-2nd-St-94541/home/1050457805 square feet, 2 bed /1 bath on 5000 sf lot fixer.
i call bunk on your boomers did. They didn’t. My father did, but he was prettybmuchbthe guy the entire extended family called when sh*tnbroke in the house and most of the other families we knew worked the same way, they didn’t fix it, of it they did they bubble gummed it and called a family/friend that knew better.
Boomers consumed. Most of the dilapidated housing out there was driven there by boomers.[/quote]That’s not it, NSR. IIRC, it was on a 7500+ sf pie-shaped lot and was over 1400 sf. I don’t recall there being a yellow line down the street (it was not a thoroughfare). I’m sorry to hear that you didn’t have any relatives who could “fix” anything. Almost all my boomer relatives (incl the women) are very handy. I like to think of myself as “learning the ropes” now as I was a “desk jockey” most of my life and still am to a lesser degree. However, I DID learn to paint, clean brushes with turpentine, mow lawns and weed as a child and did those things for money before I got my work permit. I was also taught to use common hand tools. Over the past few years, my “repertoire” has been building slowly into other trades and the use of power tools (of which I currently own 5). It’s a process.
The listing you posted is on a standard-sized lot and therefore, only so much can be done with it. And due to the “economic obsolescence” of it being situated on a thoroughfare, I don’t think it is worth it to obtain plans for a second story on it (although the view would be very nice to possibly outstanding out some windows).
However, for the buyer who can get it for +/-$325K and doesn’t mind the size of the home (they were going to buy a small condo anyway, with HOA dues) or the street, it is reasonably-priced close in shelter for a SV worker.
Assuming no structural problems, I think I’d rather spend $50-$100K on your listing after getting it for ~$325K and possibly add a family room or extend the MBR + addt’l bath to the backyard instead of continuing to pound the pavement looking for housing another 20 to 100 miles down the road. It’s very affordable for that area.
I’ll try to find the listing I saw a few weeks ago.
I also saw a listing for a fabulous older home on a large corner lot in Livermore (I know, pretty far out, but not anywhere near as far away as Tracy/Stockton) which had some of the goodies in it that SD North Park homes typically have, although I don’t think it was a Craftsman. IIRC, its asking price was <$500K. Livermore has the Lawrence Livermore Labs as well as a few other corporate HQ in its own right. It's a very nice, self-contained town, although it can get quite hot out there. I grew up near what is now the Amador Valley Blvd exit of I680, which of course, wasn't built at that time. We only had a Safeway and Piggly Wiggly (large convenience store with meat and produce) at that time and of course, there was no I580. There was an exit off the SR-84, I believe, for Dougherty Road in Dublin, which was unincorporated at that time. The SR-84 meandered on out to Livermore, where we occasionally shopped. I remember Livermore's shopping area as having a wood deck for a sidewalk, much like the SD Embarcadero used to be. And the town was very green and FULL of cows (and all the smells that go along with that, lol). I've seen a few other recent SFR listings in Livermore as well, for larger, more contemporary homes ('70's & '80's) on 7500+ sf lots asking under $500K. And this is only what I've seen in the the cities I was searching in Alameda County, my old stomping grounds. There are several affordable SFR areas of Solano County and fewer affordable SFR areas of (eastern) Contra Costa County.
There are a few “affordable” condo complexes with 3 br units off the Dublin Blvd exit of I580 which feed into a “10” elementary school, which was my old (K-8) school back in the day. Who knew? I must say I DID receive an excellent education there 50+ years ago, lol ….
When I repeatedly see posts here about SV workers being forced into buying/renting in Patterson, Tracy and Stockton, I call BS. It is as though these poor worker-bee millenials are self-proclaimed “victims” who can’t even find a cardboard box to live in closer to work! It’s a crock of sh!t.
February 18, 2016 at 2:38 PM #794477Participant[quote=FlyerInHi] . . . Boomers are needy people; as they age, they will want to be near their kids closer to the cities. (Boomers are the first generation that treated their kids are friends also).[/quote]I have never been “needy” nor have I ever treated my kids like my “friends,” (especially when they were growing up). I saw how that fiasco turned out with other families, lol. Maybe this is why my youngest gave me their old (2010) smartphone when they left for college a year and a half ago. They wanted me to learn how to text cuz they didn’t want to talk on the phone with me anymore … go figure :-0
[quote=FlyerInHi]I need to live another 50-60 years to see how my predictions turn out. I think I will be vindicated.[/quote]Ummm, how old are you now, brian?
February 18, 2016 at 2:38 PM #794476GuestPortland, OR is getting a lot of press about being a cool city.
These are the types of neighborhoods I believe educated millenials want. With bodegas, coffee shops, and dispensaries nearby.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/members/lifeshadower-623051-albums-west-coast-trip-part-1-august-2010-pic60039-another-portland-street-i-love-placement.htmlhttp://www.thedesertecho.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/shadows-trees-moss-street-portland.jpg
http://portlandcondos.com/communities/Cambridge,_104_pic_1751.JPG
February 18, 2016 at 2:47 PM #794478Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Portland, OR is getting a lot of press about being a cool city.
These are the types of neighborhoods I believe educated millenials want. With bodegas, coffee shops, and dispensaries nearby.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/members/lifeshadower-623051-albums-west-coast-trip-part-1-august-2010-pic60039-another-portland-street-i-love-placement.htmlhttp://www.thedesertecho.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/shadows-trees-moss-street-portland.jpg
http://portlandcondos.com/communities/Cambridge,_104_pic_1751.JPG
[/quote]Your first link looks almost exactly like the north side of West C St in Dtn SD near the City Concourse (except it is a little cleaner).
Your second link is very pretty. I have never been up there but can tell it gets a lot of rain.
February 18, 2016 at 4:21 PM #794480flyer
ParticipantNo Boomers I know, including ourselves, are needy. In fact, not all, but many of the needy people we know seem to be younger people (even those in their 30’s) who require extensive assistance just to live their lives, and, even then, it doesn’t seem to be working out well in many cases.
In addition, many of us who have purchased our own+ investment properties over the years have done much of our own work on the properties. When we remodeled our home in RSF over 20 years ago, I was involved in almost every aspect of that project and loved it, as well as taking care of our cars, the rentals, and flying.
Don’t do as much of the above as I used to, since we have so many other things going on, but jump in anytime I need to.
February 18, 2016 at 4:46 PM #794483millennial
ParticipantBeing a millennial (born late 70’s-early 2000) we obviously think a lot different than our parents, but there are a lot of similarities. For instance we care about our environment, personal free time, and larger social networks. We also are very hard workers, but we are results driven and don’t need to be in the office to get things done (aka face-time). We are also not in a rush to get married and have kids, (especially in CA, or NYC) cause we are responsible and either don’t want them, or can’t afford them; therefore are mostly renters cause mobility is key when you are young and starting your career. Yes we do like urban areas, because why would you want to spend your life on a freeway when you can be working and playing with all you buddies downtown? A big house is nice, but honestly not very practical. Also, why would your friends want to come out to the burbs when all the fun stuff is downtown?
Personally I own my own home, because it finally made sense after I had my third child. So now I own this big house with 5 bedrooms in suburbia, cause I need to. But trust me that once the kids are old and in college and moved out, my wife and I are going to move back to the city; with the food, the culture, and the nightlife.
February 18, 2016 at 5:11 PM #794484GuestBy “needy”, I meant relative to the pre-war generations.
Boomers did embrace “self actualization” self-help books, etc..Demographics is pretty fascinating… boomers were the first generation to widely get college education. They moved to newish cities such as Dallas, Phoenix, San Diego, etc… to join the middle class and to partake in an ever growing consumer society.
As young adults, educated millenials want to be in established cities, if they can afford it. They don’t want to be move to the levittowns of the 21st century.
They don’t really care for car ownership like the boomers did. They don’t want to eat big food from Kellogg, Heinz and Tyson. They don’t want consumer products from Colgate Palmolive, Procter & Gamble, etc.. (all the corporations that the boomers made into giants). They have influence over their parents and are pulling their elders along.
I have young cousins like that… They refuse to eat at chain restaurants.
February 18, 2016 at 5:40 PM #794485Guest[quote=yamashi1] We also are very hard workers, but we are results driven and don’t need to be in the office to get things done (aka face-time). [/quote]
yamashi1, I saw saw your post… good to hear from a Millenial. Tell us more.
About the quote above, I see that also. Millenials are not really about “paying dues”, seniority, or structure. They think whoever can best get it done should get credit.
FaceTime is an interesting concept. Elders want FaceTime and talk time. Younger people can be of fewer words. Saying it one time is enough, don’t need to repeat it. Judge when the job is done, or not done.
February 18, 2016 at 5:57 PM #794486The-Shoveler
ParticipantWorks OK for some software Gigs’s not so well for Doctors nurses, firemen etc…
The whole world does not run on piecemeal gig’s
Call me old, But I still think 90% of success is showing up and being there.
Mark Cuban had a good take on this subject, need to find that again
February 18, 2016 at 7:16 PM #794488Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]Works OK for some software Gigs’s not so well for Doctors nurses, firemen etc…
The whole world does not run on piecemeal gig’s
Call me old, But I still think 90% of success is showing up and being there.
Mark Cuban had a good take on this subject, need to find that again[/quote]If we didn’t have our smiling faces there for the “headcount” at 8:00 am five days per week, we had to call in with a plausible-sounding “sick” excuse by 8:15 am (and not make a habit of this on Mondays). If you were out of sick leave (or only had enough SL on the books to cover part of the day), your leave was deducted from your annual leave balance. If you didn’t have enough to that to cover the day, your paycheck would be shorted and you would likely be “counseled” as to why you’re not keeping any leave on the books. If you didn’t call in by 8:15 am, you were technically “AWOL” and subject to disciplinary action. Not only that, but you better be dressed and groomed properly or you would be sent home to do so and annual leave would be deducted from your balance accordingly. This meant a PRESSED pair of dockers or better for men and a PRESSED shirt. PANTYHOSE for women and no fallen hems in our (mid-knee-length) skirts and clothes CLEAN and pressed. No flashy, BIG jewelry, chains, cleavage, tank tops, short skirts, tight clothes, incl leggings, jeans of any kind (for both sexes). PRESSED DRESS pants were allowed 2-4X month for women. In the ’90’s, women were able to wear PRESSED DRESS pants almost every day with a PRESSED blouse or shirt tucked in and a belt, with which we could attach a NON-BEEPING pager. You could hang a non-tattered cardigan sweater on the back of your chair.
Damn straight.
I go back to these same (public offices) a few times per month today and I can’t believe what these millenial workers get away with! OMG, if we had tatoos peeking out from the back of tight pants and armfuls of tattoos peeking out from shirtsleeves, we would have NEVER BEEN HIRED (or terminated if we got them AFTER we were hired)! And I worked across the street from SIX tattoo parlors in dtn SD for at least a dozen years! At least today’s local gubment workers have to take out their nose, lip and tongue rings before reporting to work (I can see the holes where they wear them and so can everyone else).
The Gen Y worker-bee group bitches and complains a lot about everything and claims they’re constantly “victimized” whilst coming and going to/from work at whim and “telecommuting” at least half the workweek at home to collect their 40 hours pay. I know this cuz one of my kids is a human resource specialist. Yeah, yeah, I know you’re “working” at home while taking breaks to mow the lawn and take care of your baby so you don’t have to pay someone else to do it.
I wish I had that kind of “flexibility” when I was raising a family. I had to pick up my kid(s) from daycare by 6:00 pm or I was “fined” $1.00 per minute after that. I even carried an ice chest with ice in it in my trunk almost every Thursday for 15 years so I could go thru the commissary express lane (5 mins away) during lunch hour and scare up some groceries for my family, stop at the base cleaners (to get my “pressed” clothing back) and gas up, making sure I was parked and arrived back in my office chair within the hour.
In part due to a plethora of worker-friendly laws (both state and Federal), today’s workers have it so much better than we boomers ever did … exponentially. They have absolutely NOTHING to complain about.
February 19, 2016 at 5:51 AM #794492ParticipantEveryone has a different life experience, and there really is no right or wrong.
As Boomers, one of our major goals as a couple, and later as a family, was to create financial freedom as early as possible, so we could pursue whatever we considered to be important in life–rather than waiting for a later “retirement” scenario. Investing in real estate at a young age, among other things, enabled us to do so.
We enjoy our home life, and can’t imagine not having a stable home base, but we also enjoy having extreme mobility, which, for us, has worked out to be the best of both worlds.
Regardless of what each of us chooses to do with our lives–everything in this lifetime is temporary–so enjoy it while you can.
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