Who are the buyers in this market and economy?

[an]

[quote=jpinpb]
AN – that’s great. I think you and a handful of others are an exception. Judging from all the people upside down and looking at NODs, very clearly a very high percentage were doing 100% financing for almost a decade.

Even today, there’s little skin in the game. You can do a 3.5% FHA and then get 8k from the gov and 10k from the state.

I’m just saying that the easy money is still there and few people do 20%. I did when I bought (and later sold) but that is old values and today that is rare, JMO FWIW. [/quote]
But SDE just explained to you why some of us still use 20% down to compare rent vs buy. If you don’t put down 20%, you’ll have additional cost such as higher rates and PMI that doesn’t NEED to be there for a fair comparison. That’s almost like taking rental rate of month-to-month rent vs 1 year lease rent rate. It’s unnecessary. When we use buy vs rent, we want to know the best number for both side. If you want worse case number, then you use worse case for both side.

BTW, I don’t think you can get a non-owner occupied loan with less than 20% down. You might be able to put down less than 20% down, but you’ll be paying for it in the rates department. Savvy investors (not flipper) will want to put down as much as they have to, to get the best rates and not have to pay PMI to yield the best ROI.

[jpinpb]

[quote=AN]But SDE just explained to you why some of us still use 20% down to compare rent vs buy. If you don’t put down 20%, you’ll have additional cost such as higher rates and PMI that doesn’t NEED to be there for a fair comparison. That’s almost like taking rental rate of month-to-month rent vs 1 year lease rent rate. It’s unnecessary. When we use buy vs rent, we want to know the best number for both side. If you want worse case number, then you use worse case for both side.

BTW, I don’t think you can get a non-owner occupied loan with less than 20% down. You might be able to put down less than 20% down, but you’ll be paying for it in the rates department. Savvy investors (not flipper) will want to put down as much as they have to, to get the best rates and not have to pay PMI to yield the best ROI.[/quote]

That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.

[jpinpb]

[quote=AN]But SDE just explained to you why some of us still use 20% down to compare rent vs buy. If you don’t put down 20%, you’ll have additional cost such as higher rates and PMI that doesn’t NEED to be there for a fair comparison. That’s almost like taking rental rate of month-to-month rent vs 1 year lease rent rate. It’s unnecessary. When we use buy vs rent, we want to know the best number for both side. If you want worse case number, then you use worse case for both side.

BTW, I don’t think you can get a non-owner occupied loan with less than 20% down. You might be able to put down less than 20% down, but you’ll be paying for it in the rates department. Savvy investors (not flipper) will want to put down as much as they have to, to get the best rates and not have to pay PMI to yield the best ROI.[/quote]

That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.

[jpinpb]

[quote=AN]But SDE just explained to you why some of us still use 20% down to compare rent vs buy. If you don’t put down 20%, you’ll have additional cost such as higher rates and PMI that doesn’t NEED to be there for a fair comparison. That’s almost like taking rental rate of month-to-month rent vs 1 year lease rent rate. It’s unnecessary. When we use buy vs rent, we want to know the best number for both side. If you want worse case number, then you use worse case for both side.

BTW, I don’t think you can get a non-owner occupied loan with less than 20% down. You might be able to put down less than 20% down, but you’ll be paying for it in the rates department. Savvy investors (not flipper) will want to put down as much as they have to, to get the best rates and not have to pay PMI to yield the best ROI.[/quote]

That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.

[jpinpb]

[quote=AN]But SDE just explained to you why some of us still use 20% down to compare rent vs buy. If you don’t put down 20%, you’ll have additional cost such as higher rates and PMI that doesn’t NEED to be there for a fair comparison. That’s almost like taking rental rate of month-to-month rent vs 1 year lease rent rate. It’s unnecessary. When we use buy vs rent, we want to know the best number for both side. If you want worse case number, then you use worse case for both side.

BTW, I don’t think you can get a non-owner occupied loan with less than 20% down. You might be able to put down less than 20% down, but you’ll be paying for it in the rates department. Savvy investors (not flipper) will want to put down as much as they have to, to get the best rates and not have to pay PMI to yield the best ROI.[/quote]

That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.

[jpinpb]

[quote=AN]But SDE just explained to you why some of us still use 20% down to compare rent vs buy. If you don’t put down 20%, you’ll have additional cost such as higher rates and PMI that doesn’t NEED to be there for a fair comparison. That’s almost like taking rental rate of month-to-month rent vs 1 year lease rent rate. It’s unnecessary. When we use buy vs rent, we want to know the best number for both side. If you want worse case number, then you use worse case for both side.

BTW, I don’t think you can get a non-owner occupied loan with less than 20% down. You might be able to put down less than 20% down, but you’ll be paying for it in the rates department. Savvy investors (not flipper) will want to put down as much as they have to, to get the best rates and not have to pay PMI to yield the best ROI.[/quote]

That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.

[an]

[quote=jpinpb]
That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.
[/quote]
Did these people buy in 2008 or in 2005. If you say 2005, you won’t get any objection from me. There were plenty of liar loans in 2005. I just don’t think those loans exist anymore. I could be wrong.

[an]

[quote=jpinpb]
That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.
[/quote]
Did these people buy in 2008 or in 2005. If you say 2005, you won’t get any objection from me. There were plenty of liar loans in 2005. I just don’t think those loans exist anymore. I could be wrong.

[an]

[quote=jpinpb]
That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.
[/quote]
Did these people buy in 2008 or in 2005. If you say 2005, you won’t get any objection from me. There were plenty of liar loans in 2005. I just don’t think those loans exist anymore. I could be wrong.

[an]

[quote=jpinpb]
That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.
[/quote]
Did these people buy in 2008 or in 2005. If you say 2005, you won’t get any objection from me. There were plenty of liar loans in 2005. I just don’t think those loans exist anymore. I could be wrong.

[an]

[quote=jpinpb]
That all may well be true. All I can go by is what I see and there are people owning multiple properties, clearly investments and not just small time investments, and they’re 100% financed getting NODs. I just posted on the Shadow inventory thread some guy in Tiburon bought 3 places in Carmel Valley that are all listed w/NODs. I’m sure he’s not the only one.

Liar loans were popular, banks weren’t checking and pretty darn easy for an investor to say he lives there and not put 20% down. Heck, Rich posted Kelly’s VOSD story on fraud. People are creative, that’s for sure. They will find a way and work the system.
[/quote]
Did these people buy in 2008 or in 2005. If you say 2005, you won’t get any objection from me. There were plenty of liar loans in 2005. I just don’t think those loans exist anymore. I could be wrong.

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