Thinking of building a home. Am I crazy?

[Oxford]

Carli, Thank you so very much for your in depth response. THAT is just what I wanted to hear — the hard facts and reality. I might have discovered that after a few weeks and 50 phone calls — but you spelled it out. And it is kinda like I expected.

I’ve got too much happening in my life for such a project. No thanks.

And thanks to everyone else who has contributed their thoughts to this thread. You folks are amazing.

OX

[carli]

OX,

After I read my response, I realized how strongly I felt about helping to save you from the building process because, unfortunately, the deck is SO stacked against you from the start. I figured you might write off my response as someone who’s been burned too many times, but I’m glad you got it. I wish I could encourage you to go for it instead of warning you about all the risks. I think you’ll be happier finding other creative outlets…again, maybe finding a minor “fixer upper” would be just as fulfilling and less stressful.

UCGal,

My heart goes out to you with the whole court process…during a home that we built back east in the 80’s (during a different economic downturn), we had a contractor use our payments for other purposes, and all of a sudden, we had liens put against the house by the plumber, electrician, tile guy and others. We were dragged into court by these subs and had to prove to a judge that the money we paid to the general contractor was supposed to be earmarked for the subs who had placed liens against us. It was a huge, expensive nightmare and not only were we pissed off at the contractor, but we had tremendous guilt about how he had screwed his subs on our job, and we ended up trying to split the difference with them, basically double-paying for those trades just to keep food on their tables. In the end, we were out by almost $50,000 and it hurt, especially because we were younger then and had way less in the bank. You know what they say about what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger…? Fortunately, our relationship survived, although I do admit that there was some finger pointing, blame and all-around bad feeelings in the air for quite awhile.

That was our first major lesson learned (and part of the reason for our cynical attitude). It’s crazy that somehow, through various circumstances/moves, we undertook the building process several more times, but after that first time, we’ve been extremely careful about getting lien releases from all subs and making sure that the work is done to high standards before paying anyone. Still, as you’ve found, you can never be 100% immune to anyone dragging you into court and having to defend yourself (especially in these desperate economic times). Unfortunately, many times the homeowner, and also sometimes honest contractors/subs, get stuck.

Best of luck to you. Thanks for the good advice about striking the arbitration clause out of the contract…we did not do that in this last building project, but we’ll note that for the future (ooops, I forgot – note to self that there will be NO more building projects in our future). We’re done! Seriously, thanks for all your wise tips and all the best to you.

Carli

[carli]

OX,

After I read my response, I realized how strongly I felt about helping to save you from the building process because, unfortunately, the deck is SO stacked against you from the start. I figured you might write off my response as someone who’s been burned too many times, but I’m glad you got it. I wish I could encourage you to go for it instead of warning you about all the risks. I think you’ll be happier finding other creative outlets…again, maybe finding a minor “fixer upper” would be just as fulfilling and less stressful.

UCGal,

My heart goes out to you with the whole court process…during a home that we built back east in the 80’s (during a different economic downturn), we had a contractor use our payments for other purposes, and all of a sudden, we had liens put against the house by the plumber, electrician, tile guy and others. We were dragged into court by these subs and had to prove to a judge that the money we paid to the general contractor was supposed to be earmarked for the subs who had placed liens against us. It was a huge, expensive nightmare and not only were we pissed off at the contractor, but we had tremendous guilt about how he had screwed his subs on our job, and we ended up trying to split the difference with them, basically double-paying for those trades just to keep food on their tables. In the end, we were out by almost $50,000 and it hurt, especially because we were younger then and had way less in the bank. You know what they say about what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger…? Fortunately, our relationship survived, although I do admit that there was some finger pointing, blame and all-around bad feeelings in the air for quite awhile.

That was our first major lesson learned (and part of the reason for our cynical attitude). It’s crazy that somehow, through various circumstances/moves, we undertook the building process several more times, but after that first time, we’ve been extremely careful about getting lien releases from all subs and making sure that the work is done to high standards before paying anyone. Still, as you’ve found, you can never be 100% immune to anyone dragging you into court and having to defend yourself (especially in these desperate economic times). Unfortunately, many times the homeowner, and also sometimes honest contractors/subs, get stuck.

Best of luck to you. Thanks for the good advice about striking the arbitration clause out of the contract…we did not do that in this last building project, but we’ll note that for the future (ooops, I forgot – note to self that there will be NO more building projects in our future). We’re done! Seriously, thanks for all your wise tips and all the best to you.

Carli

[carli]

OX,

After I read my response, I realized how strongly I felt about helping to save you from the building process because, unfortunately, the deck is SO stacked against you from the start. I figured you might write off my response as someone who’s been burned too many times, but I’m glad you got it. I wish I could encourage you to go for it instead of warning you about all the risks. I think you’ll be happier finding other creative outlets…again, maybe finding a minor “fixer upper” would be just as fulfilling and less stressful.

UCGal,

My heart goes out to you with the whole court process…during a home that we built back east in the 80’s (during a different economic downturn), we had a contractor use our payments for other purposes, and all of a sudden, we had liens put against the house by the plumber, electrician, tile guy and others. We were dragged into court by these subs and had to prove to a judge that the money we paid to the general contractor was supposed to be earmarked for the subs who had placed liens against us. It was a huge, expensive nightmare and not only were we pissed off at the contractor, but we had tremendous guilt about how he had screwed his subs on our job, and we ended up trying to split the difference with them, basically double-paying for those trades just to keep food on their tables. In the end, we were out by almost $50,000 and it hurt, especially because we were younger then and had way less in the bank. You know what they say about what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger…? Fortunately, our relationship survived, although I do admit that there was some finger pointing, blame and all-around bad feeelings in the air for quite awhile.

That was our first major lesson learned (and part of the reason for our cynical attitude). It’s crazy that somehow, through various circumstances/moves, we undertook the building process several more times, but after that first time, we’ve been extremely careful about getting lien releases from all subs and making sure that the work is done to high standards before paying anyone. Still, as you’ve found, you can never be 100% immune to anyone dragging you into court and having to defend yourself (especially in these desperate economic times). Unfortunately, many times the homeowner, and also sometimes honest contractors/subs, get stuck.

Best of luck to you. Thanks for the good advice about striking the arbitration clause out of the contract…we did not do that in this last building project, but we’ll note that for the future (ooops, I forgot – note to self that there will be NO more building projects in our future). We’re done! Seriously, thanks for all your wise tips and all the best to you.

Carli

[carli]

OX,

After I read my response, I realized how strongly I felt about helping to save you from the building process because, unfortunately, the deck is SO stacked against you from the start. I figured you might write off my response as someone who’s been burned too many times, but I’m glad you got it. I wish I could encourage you to go for it instead of warning you about all the risks. I think you’ll be happier finding other creative outlets…again, maybe finding a minor “fixer upper” would be just as fulfilling and less stressful.

UCGal,

My heart goes out to you with the whole court process…during a home that we built back east in the 80’s (during a different economic downturn), we had a contractor use our payments for other purposes, and all of a sudden, we had liens put against the house by the plumber, electrician, tile guy and others. We were dragged into court by these subs and had to prove to a judge that the money we paid to the general contractor was supposed to be earmarked for the subs who had placed liens against us. It was a huge, expensive nightmare and not only were we pissed off at the contractor, but we had tremendous guilt about how he had screwed his subs on our job, and we ended up trying to split the difference with them, basically double-paying for those trades just to keep food on their tables. In the end, we were out by almost $50,000 and it hurt, especially because we were younger then and had way less in the bank. You know what they say about what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger…? Fortunately, our relationship survived, although I do admit that there was some finger pointing, blame and all-around bad feeelings in the air for quite awhile.

That was our first major lesson learned (and part of the reason for our cynical attitude). It’s crazy that somehow, through various circumstances/moves, we undertook the building process several more times, but after that first time, we’ve been extremely careful about getting lien releases from all subs and making sure that the work is done to high standards before paying anyone. Still, as you’ve found, you can never be 100% immune to anyone dragging you into court and having to defend yourself (especially in these desperate economic times). Unfortunately, many times the homeowner, and also sometimes honest contractors/subs, get stuck.

Best of luck to you. Thanks for the good advice about striking the arbitration clause out of the contract…we did not do that in this last building project, but we’ll note that for the future (ooops, I forgot – note to self that there will be NO more building projects in our future). We’re done! Seriously, thanks for all your wise tips and all the best to you.

Carli

[carli]

OX,

After I read my response, I realized how strongly I felt about helping to save you from the building process because, unfortunately, the deck is SO stacked against you from the start. I figured you might write off my response as someone who’s been burned too many times, but I’m glad you got it. I wish I could encourage you to go for it instead of warning you about all the risks. I think you’ll be happier finding other creative outlets…again, maybe finding a minor “fixer upper” would be just as fulfilling and less stressful.

UCGal,

My heart goes out to you with the whole court process…during a home that we built back east in the 80’s (during a different economic downturn), we had a contractor use our payments for other purposes, and all of a sudden, we had liens put against the house by the plumber, electrician, tile guy and others. We were dragged into court by these subs and had to prove to a judge that the money we paid to the general contractor was supposed to be earmarked for the subs who had placed liens against us. It was a huge, expensive nightmare and not only were we pissed off at the contractor, but we had tremendous guilt about how he had screwed his subs on our job, and we ended up trying to split the difference with them, basically double-paying for those trades just to keep food on their tables. In the end, we were out by almost $50,000 and it hurt, especially because we were younger then and had way less in the bank. You know what they say about what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger…? Fortunately, our relationship survived, although I do admit that there was some finger pointing, blame and all-around bad feeelings in the air for quite awhile.

That was our first major lesson learned (and part of the reason for our cynical attitude). It’s crazy that somehow, through various circumstances/moves, we undertook the building process several more times, but after that first time, we’ve been extremely careful about getting lien releases from all subs and making sure that the work is done to high standards before paying anyone. Still, as you’ve found, you can never be 100% immune to anyone dragging you into court and having to defend yourself (especially in these desperate economic times). Unfortunately, many times the homeowner, and also sometimes honest contractors/subs, get stuck.

Best of luck to you. Thanks for the good advice about striking the arbitration clause out of the contract…we did not do that in this last building project, but we’ll note that for the future (ooops, I forgot – note to self that there will be NO more building projects in our future). We’re done! Seriously, thanks for all your wise tips and all the best to you.

Carli

[svelte]

We have toyed with building our own house several times and never have done it for many of the reasons given in this thread…you all are a wealth of info all wrapped up in one spot.

What a gem.

As for the GC not paying subs, I have friends who had to pay for material twice – once to the GC and then later to the subs so they would remove their liens. It is a common situation.

The problem, of course, is that the materials that were not paid for are now a part of your house so the subs have no alternative but to lien your property.

I have also talked to ppl who found a way around this problem. They refused to pay the GC for materials, had the materials drop-shipped to their lot, and wrote a check to the delivery person when the material arrived. I’m sure they met with some resistance to this path, but it is the only way I know of to ensure you pay for materials only once.

[svelte]

We have toyed with building our own house several times and never have done it for many of the reasons given in this thread…you all are a wealth of info all wrapped up in one spot.

What a gem.

As for the GC not paying subs, I have friends who had to pay for material twice – once to the GC and then later to the subs so they would remove their liens. It is a common situation.

The problem, of course, is that the materials that were not paid for are now a part of your house so the subs have no alternative but to lien your property.

I have also talked to ppl who found a way around this problem. They refused to pay the GC for materials, had the materials drop-shipped to their lot, and wrote a check to the delivery person when the material arrived. I’m sure they met with some resistance to this path, but it is the only way I know of to ensure you pay for materials only once.

[svelte]

We have toyed with building our own house several times and never have done it for many of the reasons given in this thread…you all are a wealth of info all wrapped up in one spot.

What a gem.

As for the GC not paying subs, I have friends who had to pay for material twice – once to the GC and then later to the subs so they would remove their liens. It is a common situation.

The problem, of course, is that the materials that were not paid for are now a part of your house so the subs have no alternative but to lien your property.

I have also talked to ppl who found a way around this problem. They refused to pay the GC for materials, had the materials drop-shipped to their lot, and wrote a check to the delivery person when the material arrived. I’m sure they met with some resistance to this path, but it is the only way I know of to ensure you pay for materials only once.

[svelte]

We have toyed with building our own house several times and never have done it for many of the reasons given in this thread…you all are a wealth of info all wrapped up in one spot.

What a gem.

As for the GC not paying subs, I have friends who had to pay for material twice – once to the GC and then later to the subs so they would remove their liens. It is a common situation.

The problem, of course, is that the materials that were not paid for are now a part of your house so the subs have no alternative but to lien your property.

I have also talked to ppl who found a way around this problem. They refused to pay the GC for materials, had the materials drop-shipped to their lot, and wrote a check to the delivery person when the material arrived. I’m sure they met with some resistance to this path, but it is the only way I know of to ensure you pay for materials only once.

[svelte]

We have toyed with building our own house several times and never have done it for many of the reasons given in this thread…you all are a wealth of info all wrapped up in one spot.

What a gem.

As for the GC not paying subs, I have friends who had to pay for material twice – once to the GC and then later to the subs so they would remove their liens. It is a common situation.

The problem, of course, is that the materials that were not paid for are now a part of your house so the subs have no alternative but to lien your property.

I have also talked to ppl who found a way around this problem. They refused to pay the GC for materials, had the materials drop-shipped to their lot, and wrote a check to the delivery person when the material arrived. I’m sure they met with some resistance to this path, but it is the only way I know of to ensure you pay for materials only once.

[UCGal]

[quote=svelte]The problem, of course, is that the materials that were not paid for are now a part of your house so the subs have no alternative but to lien your property.

I have also talked to ppl who found a way around this problem. They refused to pay the GC for materials, had the materials drop-shipped to their lot, and wrote a check to the delivery person when the material arrived. I’m sure they met with some resistance to this path, but it is the only way I know of to ensure you pay for materials only once.[/quote]
We did exactly this the first time (big red flag) our first thief contractor threatened to abandon the job… The concrete truck was out front with the mix for retaining walls. The special inspector (another extra expense the city imposed on us) was there being paid by the hour. The crew to do the mortor was there. And the thief contractor threatened to walk off if we didn’t give him more money so he could pay the concrete guy. We paid the concrete guy directly.

2 weeks later he tried to pull the same type of stuff – but with framing materials. We offered to write joint checks. He skoffed at the idea even though that is the advice our newly hired attorney gave us AND the CSLB website suggested.

When he walked off the job, with lots of our money we learned the ins and outs of liens. We had 4 liens filed against us – but 3 were more than 20 days from when the work was done (so they were invalid.) We ended up double paying the 4th one because we wanted him to finish the slab – which was a hazard. (Footings dug, rebar sticking up – a lawsuit waiting to happen if someone fell/tripped/etc.)

We found out, after the fact, that our contractor had done the same thing to two other people. Including forging lien releases from the sub. So I’d add to Carli’s advise about getting lien releases… VERIFY with the sub that they issued the lien release.

PS – We’re considering seeing if our suit – if we go forward would qualify under RICO, since he has made a pattern of how he rips people off. That would also lift the veil of corporation and we could go after personal assets.

[UCGal]

[quote=svelte]The problem, of course, is that the materials that were not paid for are now a part of your house so the subs have no alternative but to lien your property.

I have also talked to ppl who found a way around this problem. They refused to pay the GC for materials, had the materials drop-shipped to their lot, and wrote a check to the delivery person when the material arrived. I’m sure they met with some resistance to this path, but it is the only way I know of to ensure you pay for materials only once.[/quote]
We did exactly this the first time (big red flag) our first thief contractor threatened to abandon the job… The concrete truck was out front with the mix for retaining walls. The special inspector (another extra expense the city imposed on us) was there being paid by the hour. The crew to do the mortor was there. And the thief contractor threatened to walk off if we didn’t give him more money so he could pay the concrete guy. We paid the concrete guy directly.

2 weeks later he tried to pull the same type of stuff – but with framing materials. We offered to write joint checks. He skoffed at the idea even though that is the advice our newly hired attorney gave us AND the CSLB website suggested.

When he walked off the job, with lots of our money we learned the ins and outs of liens. We had 4 liens filed against us – but 3 were more than 20 days from when the work was done (so they were invalid.) We ended up double paying the 4th one because we wanted him to finish the slab – which was a hazard. (Footings dug, rebar sticking up – a lawsuit waiting to happen if someone fell/tripped/etc.)

We found out, after the fact, that our contractor had done the same thing to two other people. Including forging lien releases from the sub. So I’d add to Carli’s advise about getting lien releases… VERIFY with the sub that they issued the lien release.

PS – We’re considering seeing if our suit – if we go forward would qualify under RICO, since he has made a pattern of how he rips people off. That would also lift the veil of corporation and we could go after personal assets.

[UCGal]

[quote=svelte]The problem, of course, is that the materials that were not paid for are now a part of your house so the subs have no alternative but to lien your property.

I have also talked to ppl who found a way around this problem. They refused to pay the GC for materials, had the materials drop-shipped to their lot, and wrote a check to the delivery person when the material arrived. I’m sure they met with some resistance to this path, but it is the only way I know of to ensure you pay for materials only once.[/quote]
We did exactly this the first time (big red flag) our first thief contractor threatened to abandon the job… The concrete truck was out front with the mix for retaining walls. The special inspector (another extra expense the city imposed on us) was there being paid by the hour. The crew to do the mortor was there. And the thief contractor threatened to walk off if we didn’t give him more money so he could pay the concrete guy. We paid the concrete guy directly.

2 weeks later he tried to pull the same type of stuff – but with framing materials. We offered to write joint checks. He skoffed at the idea even though that is the advice our newly hired attorney gave us AND the CSLB website suggested.

When he walked off the job, with lots of our money we learned the ins and outs of liens. We had 4 liens filed against us – but 3 were more than 20 days from when the work was done (so they were invalid.) We ended up double paying the 4th one because we wanted him to finish the slab – which was a hazard. (Footings dug, rebar sticking up – a lawsuit waiting to happen if someone fell/tripped/etc.)

We found out, after the fact, that our contractor had done the same thing to two other people. Including forging lien releases from the sub. So I’d add to Carli’s advise about getting lien releases… VERIFY with the sub that they issued the lien release.

PS – We’re considering seeing if our suit – if we go forward would qualify under RICO, since he has made a pattern of how he rips people off. That would also lift the veil of corporation and we could go after personal assets.

[UCGal]

[quote=svelte]The problem, of course, is that the materials that were not paid for are now a part of your house so the subs have no alternative but to lien your property.

I have also talked to ppl who found a way around this problem. They refused to pay the GC for materials, had the materials drop-shipped to their lot, and wrote a check to the delivery person when the material arrived. I’m sure they met with some resistance to this path, but it is the only way I know of to ensure you pay for materials only once.[/quote]
We did exactly this the first time (big red flag) our first thief contractor threatened to abandon the job… The concrete truck was out front with the mix for retaining walls. The special inspector (another extra expense the city imposed on us) was there being paid by the hour. The crew to do the mortor was there. And the thief contractor threatened to walk off if we didn’t give him more money so he could pay the concrete guy. We paid the concrete guy directly.

2 weeks later he tried to pull the same type of stuff – but with framing materials. We offered to write joint checks. He skoffed at the idea even though that is the advice our newly hired attorney gave us AND the CSLB website suggested.

When he walked off the job, with lots of our money we learned the ins and outs of liens. We had 4 liens filed against us – but 3 were more than 20 days from when the work was done (so they were invalid.) We ended up double paying the 4th one because we wanted him to finish the slab – which was a hazard. (Footings dug, rebar sticking up – a lawsuit waiting to happen if someone fell/tripped/etc.)

We found out, after the fact, that our contractor had done the same thing to two other people. Including forging lien releases from the sub. So I’d add to Carli’s advise about getting lien releases… VERIFY with the sub that they issued the lien release.

PS – We’re considering seeing if our suit – if we go forward would qualify under RICO, since he has made a pattern of how he rips people off. That would also lift the veil of corporation and we could go after personal assets.

[Author]

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