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  • October 19, 2009 at 4:56 PM #471920
    ucodegen
    Participant

    Explained well uco. Did you read that Rolling Stone link that was posted awhile back on AIG? Sorry to trip the thread up. Anyways like I said, you explained it well.

    I didn’t read the Rolling Stones link, do you have a copy of the link or know where it was? I have just been paying attention to where the money is going, ignoring the politics(which I consider a distraction like the games in the Roman Colosseum). I always try to explain my position, particularly when there is a lot of anger floating around.

    People want these big bloated institutions to fail, in a kind of taxpayer revenge feeling. Unfortunately many don’t realize that if they have a pension, health insurance, retirement investments in stock funds.. that taking down some of these big institutions may also take down their own future. Screw around with credit.. or make banks not want to loan.. investors to buy bonds and there may go people’s jobs. This whole credit problem has to be unwound carefully.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM #471086
    SD Realtor
    Participant

    I will try to find it.

    Any Piggs recall the link to the rolling stones article about AIG? It was a thread all its own but a very nice writeup.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM #471266
    SD Realtor
    Participant

    I will try to find it.

    Any Piggs recall the link to the rolling stones article about AIG? It was a thread all its own but a very nice writeup.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM #471625
    SD Realtor
    Participant

    I will try to find it.

    Any Piggs recall the link to the rolling stones article about AIG? It was a thread all its own but a very nice writeup.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM #471703
    SD Realtor
    Participant

    I will try to find it.

    Any Piggs recall the link to the rolling stones article about AIG? It was a thread all its own but a very nice writeup.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM #471925
    SD Realtor
    Participant

    I will try to find it.

    Any Piggs recall the link to the rolling stones article about AIG? It was a thread all its own but a very nice writeup.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM #471091
    Arraya
    Participant

    [quote=ucodegen]

    Semantics, it all came from the taxpayer. Specifically, the AIG went directly from Tarp to Goldman. Oh, but it was default swaps so it’s ok????

    The semantics are what is important.. which side of the loan.. who owes who money.. its all semantics. The only way to prevent this transfer was to have AIG go under.. which would have caused more than $137Billion in underwritten CDS to go under.. affecting several other banks that also bought CDSs from AIG.

    Specifically, AIG was insuring loans that Goldman had underwritten. Goldman was paying AIG money to do this. Goldman thought there was a possibility of the loans going bad, so they bought insurance on the principal of the loan.. this loan is known as a Credit Default Swap. Same semantic that brought down Bear Stearns.. they were on the wrong end of the Credit Default Swap.

    My personal opinion is that the Fed should have allowed AIG to fail, to take possession of AIG and make the CDS(s) that it did originate good. Sell off the other parts of AIG to clear up the loss. Several banks understood the risk of the loss of principal and took out insurance, paying into AIG so that if the loan went bad, they could at least get their principal back.[/quote]

    Yeah, I understand the systemic risk of AIG. Still, taxpayer money went to pay Goldman’s seemingly always correct bets. Just because things would have went haywire if GS did not get payed DOES NOT mean they are not receiving taxpayers funds. The taxpayer is still funding a casino. It’s gambling plane and simple. People tend to bet big when they know they can’t lose.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM #471271
    Arraya
    Participant

    [quote=ucodegen]

    Semantics, it all came from the taxpayer. Specifically, the AIG went directly from Tarp to Goldman. Oh, but it was default swaps so it’s ok????

    The semantics are what is important.. which side of the loan.. who owes who money.. its all semantics. The only way to prevent this transfer was to have AIG go under.. which would have caused more than $137Billion in underwritten CDS to go under.. affecting several other banks that also bought CDSs from AIG.

    Specifically, AIG was insuring loans that Goldman had underwritten. Goldman was paying AIG money to do this. Goldman thought there was a possibility of the loans going bad, so they bought insurance on the principal of the loan.. this loan is known as a Credit Default Swap. Same semantic that brought down Bear Stearns.. they were on the wrong end of the Credit Default Swap.

    My personal opinion is that the Fed should have allowed AIG to fail, to take possession of AIG and make the CDS(s) that it did originate good. Sell off the other parts of AIG to clear up the loss. Several banks understood the risk of the loss of principal and took out insurance, paying into AIG so that if the loan went bad, they could at least get their principal back.[/quote]

    Yeah, I understand the systemic risk of AIG. Still, taxpayer money went to pay Goldman’s seemingly always correct bets. Just because things would have went haywire if GS did not get payed DOES NOT mean they are not receiving taxpayers funds. The taxpayer is still funding a casino. It’s gambling plane and simple. People tend to bet big when they know they can’t lose.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM #471630
    Arraya
    Participant

    [quote=ucodegen]

    Semantics, it all came from the taxpayer. Specifically, the AIG went directly from Tarp to Goldman. Oh, but it was default swaps so it’s ok????

    The semantics are what is important.. which side of the loan.. who owes who money.. its all semantics. The only way to prevent this transfer was to have AIG go under.. which would have caused more than $137Billion in underwritten CDS to go under.. affecting several other banks that also bought CDSs from AIG.

    Specifically, AIG was insuring loans that Goldman had underwritten. Goldman was paying AIG money to do this. Goldman thought there was a possibility of the loans going bad, so they bought insurance on the principal of the loan.. this loan is known as a Credit Default Swap. Same semantic that brought down Bear Stearns.. they were on the wrong end of the Credit Default Swap.

    My personal opinion is that the Fed should have allowed AIG to fail, to take possession of AIG and make the CDS(s) that it did originate good. Sell off the other parts of AIG to clear up the loss. Several banks understood the risk of the loss of principal and took out insurance, paying into AIG so that if the loan went bad, they could at least get their principal back.[/quote]

    Yeah, I understand the systemic risk of AIG. Still, taxpayer money went to pay Goldman’s seemingly always correct bets. Just because things would have went haywire if GS did not get payed DOES NOT mean they are not receiving taxpayers funds. The taxpayer is still funding a casino. It’s gambling plane and simple. People tend to bet big when they know they can’t lose.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM #471708
    Arraya
    Participant

    [quote=ucodegen]

    Semantics, it all came from the taxpayer. Specifically, the AIG went directly from Tarp to Goldman. Oh, but it was default swaps so it’s ok????

    The semantics are what is important.. which side of the loan.. who owes who money.. its all semantics. The only way to prevent this transfer was to have AIG go under.. which would have caused more than $137Billion in underwritten CDS to go under.. affecting several other banks that also bought CDSs from AIG.

    Specifically, AIG was insuring loans that Goldman had underwritten. Goldman was paying AIG money to do this. Goldman thought there was a possibility of the loans going bad, so they bought insurance on the principal of the loan.. this loan is known as a Credit Default Swap. Same semantic that brought down Bear Stearns.. they were on the wrong end of the Credit Default Swap.

    My personal opinion is that the Fed should have allowed AIG to fail, to take possession of AIG and make the CDS(s) that it did originate good. Sell off the other parts of AIG to clear up the loss. Several banks understood the risk of the loss of principal and took out insurance, paying into AIG so that if the loan went bad, they could at least get their principal back.[/quote]

    Yeah, I understand the systemic risk of AIG. Still, taxpayer money went to pay Goldman’s seemingly always correct bets. Just because things would have went haywire if GS did not get payed DOES NOT mean they are not receiving taxpayers funds. The taxpayer is still funding a casino. It’s gambling plane and simple. People tend to bet big when they know they can’t lose.

    October 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM #471930
    Arraya
    Participant

    [quote=ucodegen]

    Semantics, it all came from the taxpayer. Specifically, the AIG went directly from Tarp to Goldman. Oh, but it was default swaps so it’s ok????

    The semantics are what is important.. which side of the loan.. who owes who money.. its all semantics. The only way to prevent this transfer was to have AIG go under.. which would have caused more than $137Billion in underwritten CDS to go under.. affecting several other banks that also bought CDSs from AIG.

    Specifically, AIG was insuring loans that Goldman had underwritten. Goldman was paying AIG money to do this. Goldman thought there was a possibility of the loans going bad, so they bought insurance on the principal of the loan.. this loan is known as a Credit Default Swap. Same semantic that brought down Bear Stearns.. they were on the wrong end of the Credit Default Swap.

    My personal opinion is that the Fed should have allowed AIG to fail, to take possession of AIG and make the CDS(s) that it did originate good. Sell off the other parts of AIG to clear up the loss. Several banks understood the risk of the loss of principal and took out insurance, paying into AIG so that if the loan went bad, they could at least get their principal back.[/quote]

    Yeah, I understand the systemic risk of AIG. Still, taxpayer money went to pay Goldman’s seemingly always correct bets. Just because things would have went haywire if GS did not get payed DOES NOT mean they are not receiving taxpayers funds. The taxpayer is still funding a casino. It’s gambling plane and simple. People tend to bet big when they know they can’t lose.

    October 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM #471126
    barnaby33
    Participant

    ucodegen, if it could be unwound carefully that would be one thing. The only two options are let it unwind or prop it up, we are engaging in option number two. However only for politically well connected entities.

    Oh and printing is re-distribution, the sneakiest variety.

    October 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM #471306
    barnaby33
    Participant

    ucodegen, if it could be unwound carefully that would be one thing. The only two options are let it unwind or prop it up, we are engaging in option number two. However only for politically well connected entities.

    Oh and printing is re-distribution, the sneakiest variety.

    October 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM #471666
    barnaby33
    Participant

    ucodegen, if it could be unwound carefully that would be one thing. The only two options are let it unwind or prop it up, we are engaging in option number two. However only for politically well connected entities.

    Oh and printing is re-distribution, the sneakiest variety.

    October 19, 2009 at 6:09 PM #471743
    barnaby33
    Participant

    ucodegen, if it could be unwound carefully that would be one thing. The only two options are let it unwind or prop it up, we are engaging in option number two. However only for politically well connected entities.

    Oh and printing is re-distribution, the sneakiest variety.

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