The Tea Party downgrade

[briansd1]

[quote=jstoesz].no body gives a damn what S&P has to say.
[/quote]

I do attach importance to what S&P has to say simply because the ratings have become an integral part of our financial system.

Those who don’t give a damn about S&P should really stop pointing to the rating.

We should look at the S&P rating in the context of their logic and in relation to the ratings of the 124 other countries. It’s a mistake to conflate our own view into the downgrade of American debts.

S&P rates sovereign debts on a curve. They are saying that we are less likely to pay back our debts than France, Germany and the UK.

[Arraya]

Speaking of the UK

London is burning with riots to boot

http://rt.com/on-air/london-hackney-riots-streets/

Meanwhile the Israeli protests have topped 300K which would be the equivalent of 15 million americans protesting.

[Arraya]

Speaking of the UK

London is burning with riots to boot

http://rt.com/on-air/london-hackney-riots-streets/

Meanwhile the Israeli protests have topped 300K which would be the equivalent of 15 million americans protesting.

[Arraya]

Speaking of the UK

London is burning with riots to boot

http://rt.com/on-air/london-hackney-riots-streets/

Meanwhile the Israeli protests have topped 300K which would be the equivalent of 15 million americans protesting.

[Arraya]

Speaking of the UK

London is burning with riots to boot

http://rt.com/on-air/london-hackney-riots-streets/

Meanwhile the Israeli protests have topped 300K which would be the equivalent of 15 million americans protesting.

[Arraya]

Speaking of the UK

London is burning with riots to boot

http://rt.com/on-air/london-hackney-riots-streets/

Meanwhile the Israeli protests have topped 300K which would be the equivalent of 15 million americans protesting.

[jstoesz]

[quote=briansd1][quote=jstoesz]

Do you really believe that brian, seriously? For 4+ years we have been racking up HUGE deficits. In the last six months the tea party gets a very limited amount of power in congress and with the repubs, there is finally some debate about the wisdom of these deficits. Cuts (reductions in increases) are agreed upon because of the tea party shifting the debate, and therefore, the downgrade is the fault of the tea party? The Tea Party is the first bloc to make a stride in this fashion in the last 10 years, and the downgrade is their fault?

That makes less than no sense.[/quote]

Yes, seriously, I do believe it. I’m not talking about whether America deserves the downgrade or not. I’m talking about the rationale at S&P for the downgrade.

I’m not even arguing whether the shift in politics because of the Tea Party is good or not.

S&P is rating France, Germany, the UK and other European countries higher than the USA despite entitlement issues that are worse than our own. Their tax rates are higher than our own. So entitlement and taxes are not the problem as far as S&P is concerned.

Those countries don’t have the political dysfunction we are currently experiencing.

If S&P thought that Tea Party politics were good for America, they would upgrade, not downgrade our bond ratings.[/quote]

Again false…doesn’t france get a new government every twenty years? Who knows what will happen there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_France

[jstoesz]

[quote=briansd1][quote=jstoesz]

Do you really believe that brian, seriously? For 4+ years we have been racking up HUGE deficits. In the last six months the tea party gets a very limited amount of power in congress and with the repubs, there is finally some debate about the wisdom of these deficits. Cuts (reductions in increases) are agreed upon because of the tea party shifting the debate, and therefore, the downgrade is the fault of the tea party? The Tea Party is the first bloc to make a stride in this fashion in the last 10 years, and the downgrade is their fault?

That makes less than no sense.[/quote]

Yes, seriously, I do believe it. I’m not talking about whether America deserves the downgrade or not. I’m talking about the rationale at S&P for the downgrade.

I’m not even arguing whether the shift in politics because of the Tea Party is good or not.

S&P is rating France, Germany, the UK and other European countries higher than the USA despite entitlement issues that are worse than our own. Their tax rates are higher than our own. So entitlement and taxes are not the problem as far as S&P is concerned.

Those countries don’t have the political dysfunction we are currently experiencing.

If S&P thought that Tea Party politics were good for America, they would upgrade, not downgrade our bond ratings.[/quote]

Again false…doesn’t france get a new government every twenty years? Who knows what will happen there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_France

[jstoesz]

[quote=briansd1][quote=jstoesz]

Do you really believe that brian, seriously? For 4+ years we have been racking up HUGE deficits. In the last six months the tea party gets a very limited amount of power in congress and with the repubs, there is finally some debate about the wisdom of these deficits. Cuts (reductions in increases) are agreed upon because of the tea party shifting the debate, and therefore, the downgrade is the fault of the tea party? The Tea Party is the first bloc to make a stride in this fashion in the last 10 years, and the downgrade is their fault?

That makes less than no sense.[/quote]

Yes, seriously, I do believe it. I’m not talking about whether America deserves the downgrade or not. I’m talking about the rationale at S&P for the downgrade.

I’m not even arguing whether the shift in politics because of the Tea Party is good or not.

S&P is rating France, Germany, the UK and other European countries higher than the USA despite entitlement issues that are worse than our own. Their tax rates are higher than our own. So entitlement and taxes are not the problem as far as S&P is concerned.

Those countries don’t have the political dysfunction we are currently experiencing.

If S&P thought that Tea Party politics were good for America, they would upgrade, not downgrade our bond ratings.[/quote]

Again false…doesn’t france get a new government every twenty years? Who knows what will happen there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_France

[jstoesz]

[quote=briansd1][quote=jstoesz]

Do you really believe that brian, seriously? For 4+ years we have been racking up HUGE deficits. In the last six months the tea party gets a very limited amount of power in congress and with the repubs, there is finally some debate about the wisdom of these deficits. Cuts (reductions in increases) are agreed upon because of the tea party shifting the debate, and therefore, the downgrade is the fault of the tea party? The Tea Party is the first bloc to make a stride in this fashion in the last 10 years, and the downgrade is their fault?

That makes less than no sense.[/quote]

Yes, seriously, I do believe it. I’m not talking about whether America deserves the downgrade or not. I’m talking about the rationale at S&P for the downgrade.

I’m not even arguing whether the shift in politics because of the Tea Party is good or not.

S&P is rating France, Germany, the UK and other European countries higher than the USA despite entitlement issues that are worse than our own. Their tax rates are higher than our own. So entitlement and taxes are not the problem as far as S&P is concerned.

Those countries don’t have the political dysfunction we are currently experiencing.

If S&P thought that Tea Party politics were good for America, they would upgrade, not downgrade our bond ratings.[/quote]

Again false…doesn’t france get a new government every twenty years? Who knows what will happen there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_France

[jstoesz]

[quote=briansd1][quote=jstoesz]

Do you really believe that brian, seriously? For 4+ years we have been racking up HUGE deficits. In the last six months the tea party gets a very limited amount of power in congress and with the repubs, there is finally some debate about the wisdom of these deficits. Cuts (reductions in increases) are agreed upon because of the tea party shifting the debate, and therefore, the downgrade is the fault of the tea party? The Tea Party is the first bloc to make a stride in this fashion in the last 10 years, and the downgrade is their fault?

That makes less than no sense.[/quote]

Yes, seriously, I do believe it. I’m not talking about whether America deserves the downgrade or not. I’m talking about the rationale at S&P for the downgrade.

I’m not even arguing whether the shift in politics because of the Tea Party is good or not.

S&P is rating France, Germany, the UK and other European countries higher than the USA despite entitlement issues that are worse than our own. Their tax rates are higher than our own. So entitlement and taxes are not the problem as far as S&P is concerned.

Those countries don’t have the political dysfunction we are currently experiencing.

If S&P thought that Tea Party politics were good for America, they would upgrade, not downgrade our bond ratings.[/quote]

Again false…doesn’t france get a new government every twenty years? Who knows what will happen there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_France

[eavesdropper]

[quote=briansd1][quote=eavesdropper]
We really don’t have a two-party (Republican-Democrat) Congress anymore. What we have is a two-goal Congress. It’s those that want to be elected to Congress in perpetuity versus those who want to work hard, compromising with others, to address the problems that threaten our very existence as a nation. Unfortunately, the latter group is far outnumbered by the first. If this country’s citizenry do not stop taking their direction from ill-informed bloggers, hate-filled media personalities, and plastic empty-headed power-hungry politicians, and make the time to research the truth on their own, they will lose the right to do so.[/quote]

I agree eavesdropper.

As you’ve said before, we need to bring back the smart people and elect politicians who will listen to the experts who spend whole careers studying the issues.

In the mean time, how do we get rid of the “ill-informed bloggers, hate-filled media personalities, and plastic empty-headed power-hungry politicians?”

You’ve mentioned Elizabeth Warren before. How we get more people like her appointed to influential positions and running for elected office?[/quote]

Brian, until people stop tossing off bumper sticker slogans like “Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps”, without really thinking about what they mean, and, more important, whether they can say that their own life reflects that slogan, nothing will change. But that takes hard work and honest unflinching introspection, two things that often go against human nature.

Now, in my humble opinion, few things in life are worth more than having the ability to live, and raise your family, in a country where you feel safe. One in which you can advance to the level of your study, hard work, and sacrifice. Where you can freely express your agreement or dissent with the statement of others, including government officials, without fear of being imprisoned or summarily executed. Where you do not worry about feeding your child with produce or meat you did not raise, or water you didn’t test and treat, because government regulations are drafted AND enforced to ensure their safety.

That is what we have here in the U.S., despite claims that are wildly distorted or are flat-out dishonest. The claims are made in an attempt to build up political influence and capital, and are directed at and wildly successful with, small-minded individuals who believe they have been cheated or damaged in some way. These individuals build up their arsenal of misinformation, and any attempt to disprove them is met by an accusation of “traitor” or “unpatriotic”.

Truth can only be found by those searching for it. By that definition, one is sure to come upon evidence that has the potential to disprove core beliefs. Therefore, being fully aware of this, yet forging on in a search for evidence of truth is a difficult task, and one that requires courage, and is not possible for the weak or faint-hearted.

The majority of people will opt for the easy way out, and instead search for “evidence” that is actually opinion of others that aligns with their own beliefs. With the development of the internet, and its availability to virtually every person in every area of the U.S., it has become very easy to find individuals and groups who are sympathetic to your views and values, no matter how extreme.

Unfortunately, excessive and inappropriate use of the internet has fostered an atmosphere of intense polarization in the U.S. Statements and reactions that once horrified most people are now greeted with a shrug. The stakes are continually raised, and an atmosphere of cooperation and compromise has been sacrificed, all the way to the halls and chambers of Congress.

People view immaturity and stubbornness as “courage” and “toughness”. We’re a society in which you no longer are forced to personally confront someone with whom you don’t agree, a situation that many see as doing away with a need for cooperation and compromise. In reality, there has never been a greater need for these qualities. In a world where you can destroy a person’s marriage, career, self-confidence, or even childhood innocence with a few keyboard strokes, it doesn’t take a lot of effort to create doubt or envy or hatred or paranoia in a susceptible populace.

Until people make a determined effort to educate themselves and resist the influence of others over their own self-confidence, no change is possible.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=briansd1][quote=eavesdropper]
We really don’t have a two-party (Republican-Democrat) Congress anymore. What we have is a two-goal Congress. It’s those that want to be elected to Congress in perpetuity versus those who want to work hard, compromising with others, to address the problems that threaten our very existence as a nation. Unfortunately, the latter group is far outnumbered by the first. If this country’s citizenry do not stop taking their direction from ill-informed bloggers, hate-filled media personalities, and plastic empty-headed power-hungry politicians, and make the time to research the truth on their own, they will lose the right to do so.[/quote]

I agree eavesdropper.

As you’ve said before, we need to bring back the smart people and elect politicians who will listen to the experts who spend whole careers studying the issues.

In the mean time, how do we get rid of the “ill-informed bloggers, hate-filled media personalities, and plastic empty-headed power-hungry politicians?”

You’ve mentioned Elizabeth Warren before. How we get more people like her appointed to influential positions and running for elected office?[/quote]

Brian, until people stop tossing off bumper sticker slogans like “Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps”, without really thinking about what they mean, and, more important, whether they can say that their own life reflects that slogan, nothing will change. But that takes hard work and honest unflinching introspection, two things that often go against human nature.

Now, in my humble opinion, few things in life are worth more than having the ability to live, and raise your family, in a country where you feel safe. One in which you can advance to the level of your study, hard work, and sacrifice. Where you can freely express your agreement or dissent with the statement of others, including government officials, without fear of being imprisoned or summarily executed. Where you do not worry about feeding your child with produce or meat you did not raise, or water you didn’t test and treat, because government regulations are drafted AND enforced to ensure their safety.

That is what we have here in the U.S., despite claims that are wildly distorted or are flat-out dishonest. The claims are made in an attempt to build up political influence and capital, and are directed at and wildly successful with, small-minded individuals who believe they have been cheated or damaged in some way. These individuals build up their arsenal of misinformation, and any attempt to disprove them is met by an accusation of “traitor” or “unpatriotic”.

Truth can only be found by those searching for it. By that definition, one is sure to come upon evidence that has the potential to disprove core beliefs. Therefore, being fully aware of this, yet forging on in a search for evidence of truth is a difficult task, and one that requires courage, and is not possible for the weak or faint-hearted.

The majority of people will opt for the easy way out, and instead search for “evidence” that is actually opinion of others that aligns with their own beliefs. With the development of the internet, and its availability to virtually every person in every area of the U.S., it has become very easy to find individuals and groups who are sympathetic to your views and values, no matter how extreme.

Unfortunately, excessive and inappropriate use of the internet has fostered an atmosphere of intense polarization in the U.S. Statements and reactions that once horrified most people are now greeted with a shrug. The stakes are continually raised, and an atmosphere of cooperation and compromise has been sacrificed, all the way to the halls and chambers of Congress.

People view immaturity and stubbornness as “courage” and “toughness”. We’re a society in which you no longer are forced to personally confront someone with whom you don’t agree, a situation that many see as doing away with a need for cooperation and compromise. In reality, there has never been a greater need for these qualities. In a world where you can destroy a person’s marriage, career, self-confidence, or even childhood innocence with a few keyboard strokes, it doesn’t take a lot of effort to create doubt or envy or hatred or paranoia in a susceptible populace.

Until people make a determined effort to educate themselves and resist the influence of others over their own self-confidence, no change is possible.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=briansd1][quote=eavesdropper]
We really don’t have a two-party (Republican-Democrat) Congress anymore. What we have is a two-goal Congress. It’s those that want to be elected to Congress in perpetuity versus those who want to work hard, compromising with others, to address the problems that threaten our very existence as a nation. Unfortunately, the latter group is far outnumbered by the first. If this country’s citizenry do not stop taking their direction from ill-informed bloggers, hate-filled media personalities, and plastic empty-headed power-hungry politicians, and make the time to research the truth on their own, they will lose the right to do so.[/quote]

I agree eavesdropper.

As you’ve said before, we need to bring back the smart people and elect politicians who will listen to the experts who spend whole careers studying the issues.

In the mean time, how do we get rid of the “ill-informed bloggers, hate-filled media personalities, and plastic empty-headed power-hungry politicians?”

You’ve mentioned Elizabeth Warren before. How we get more people like her appointed to influential positions and running for elected office?[/quote]

Brian, until people stop tossing off bumper sticker slogans like “Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps”, without really thinking about what they mean, and, more important, whether they can say that their own life reflects that slogan, nothing will change. But that takes hard work and honest unflinching introspection, two things that often go against human nature.

Now, in my humble opinion, few things in life are worth more than having the ability to live, and raise your family, in a country where you feel safe. One in which you can advance to the level of your study, hard work, and sacrifice. Where you can freely express your agreement or dissent with the statement of others, including government officials, without fear of being imprisoned or summarily executed. Where you do not worry about feeding your child with produce or meat you did not raise, or water you didn’t test and treat, because government regulations are drafted AND enforced to ensure their safety.

That is what we have here in the U.S., despite claims that are wildly distorted or are flat-out dishonest. The claims are made in an attempt to build up political influence and capital, and are directed at and wildly successful with, small-minded individuals who believe they have been cheated or damaged in some way. These individuals build up their arsenal of misinformation, and any attempt to disprove them is met by an accusation of “traitor” or “unpatriotic”.

Truth can only be found by those searching for it. By that definition, one is sure to come upon evidence that has the potential to disprove core beliefs. Therefore, being fully aware of this, yet forging on in a search for evidence of truth is a difficult task, and one that requires courage, and is not possible for the weak or faint-hearted.

The majority of people will opt for the easy way out, and instead search for “evidence” that is actually opinion of others that aligns with their own beliefs. With the development of the internet, and its availability to virtually every person in every area of the U.S., it has become very easy to find individuals and groups who are sympathetic to your views and values, no matter how extreme.

Unfortunately, excessive and inappropriate use of the internet has fostered an atmosphere of intense polarization in the U.S. Statements and reactions that once horrified most people are now greeted with a shrug. The stakes are continually raised, and an atmosphere of cooperation and compromise has been sacrificed, all the way to the halls and chambers of Congress.

People view immaturity and stubbornness as “courage” and “toughness”. We’re a society in which you no longer are forced to personally confront someone with whom you don’t agree, a situation that many see as doing away with a need for cooperation and compromise. In reality, there has never been a greater need for these qualities. In a world where you can destroy a person’s marriage, career, self-confidence, or even childhood innocence with a few keyboard strokes, it doesn’t take a lot of effort to create doubt or envy or hatred or paranoia in a susceptible populace.

Until people make a determined effort to educate themselves and resist the influence of others over their own self-confidence, no change is possible.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=briansd1][quote=eavesdropper]
We really don’t have a two-party (Republican-Democrat) Congress anymore. What we have is a two-goal Congress. It’s those that want to be elected to Congress in perpetuity versus those who want to work hard, compromising with others, to address the problems that threaten our very existence as a nation. Unfortunately, the latter group is far outnumbered by the first. If this country’s citizenry do not stop taking their direction from ill-informed bloggers, hate-filled media personalities, and plastic empty-headed power-hungry politicians, and make the time to research the truth on their own, they will lose the right to do so.[/quote]

I agree eavesdropper.

As you’ve said before, we need to bring back the smart people and elect politicians who will listen to the experts who spend whole careers studying the issues.

In the mean time, how do we get rid of the “ill-informed bloggers, hate-filled media personalities, and plastic empty-headed power-hungry politicians?”

You’ve mentioned Elizabeth Warren before. How we get more people like her appointed to influential positions and running for elected office?[/quote]

Brian, until people stop tossing off bumper sticker slogans like “Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps”, without really thinking about what they mean, and, more important, whether they can say that their own life reflects that slogan, nothing will change. But that takes hard work and honest unflinching introspection, two things that often go against human nature.

Now, in my humble opinion, few things in life are worth more than having the ability to live, and raise your family, in a country where you feel safe. One in which you can advance to the level of your study, hard work, and sacrifice. Where you can freely express your agreement or dissent with the statement of others, including government officials, without fear of being imprisoned or summarily executed. Where you do not worry about feeding your child with produce or meat you did not raise, or water you didn’t test and treat, because government regulations are drafted AND enforced to ensure their safety.

That is what we have here in the U.S., despite claims that are wildly distorted or are flat-out dishonest. The claims are made in an attempt to build up political influence and capital, and are directed at and wildly successful with, small-minded individuals who believe they have been cheated or damaged in some way. These individuals build up their arsenal of misinformation, and any attempt to disprove them is met by an accusation of “traitor” or “unpatriotic”.

Truth can only be found by those searching for it. By that definition, one is sure to come upon evidence that has the potential to disprove core beliefs. Therefore, being fully aware of this, yet forging on in a search for evidence of truth is a difficult task, and one that requires courage, and is not possible for the weak or faint-hearted.

The majority of people will opt for the easy way out, and instead search for “evidence” that is actually opinion of others that aligns with their own beliefs. With the development of the internet, and its availability to virtually every person in every area of the U.S., it has become very easy to find individuals and groups who are sympathetic to your views and values, no matter how extreme.

Unfortunately, excessive and inappropriate use of the internet has fostered an atmosphere of intense polarization in the U.S. Statements and reactions that once horrified most people are now greeted with a shrug. The stakes are continually raised, and an atmosphere of cooperation and compromise has been sacrificed, all the way to the halls and chambers of Congress.

People view immaturity and stubbornness as “courage” and “toughness”. We’re a society in which you no longer are forced to personally confront someone with whom you don’t agree, a situation that many see as doing away with a need for cooperation and compromise. In reality, there has never been a greater need for these qualities. In a world where you can destroy a person’s marriage, career, self-confidence, or even childhood innocence with a few keyboard strokes, it doesn’t take a lot of effort to create doubt or envy or hatred or paranoia in a susceptible populace.

Until people make a determined effort to educate themselves and resist the influence of others over their own self-confidence, no change is possible.

[Author]

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