Sense of something wrong

[an]

[quote=permabear]Defense spending needs to be cut drastically – at least back to Clinton levels. It is insane right now, and is the single item bankrupting the U.S. – not SS or Medicare or anything else. The 2009 U.S. military budget accounted for approximately 40% of global arms spending. That’s over SIX TIMES larger than the military budget of China.

Seriously, just look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_federations_by_military_expenditures%5B/quote%5D
According to that wiki link, military spending as % of GDP is 4.3%. Here’s the break down of government spending as of 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending.

Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4

[permabear]

[quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

[permabear]

[quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

[permabear]

[quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

[permabear]

[quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

[permabear]

[quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

[sreeb]

[quote=permabear][quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

You debate the exact numbers but number make two things very clear:

1) If interest rate only go up by a factor of 4 (not unrealistic given how low they are now), we are completely screwed.

2) You can’t cut 40% of spending (required to balance the budget) solely in defense or any other single category. It will take massive cuts in everything.

[sreeb]

[quote=permabear][quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

You debate the exact numbers but number make two things very clear:

1) If interest rate only go up by a factor of 4 (not unrealistic given how low they are now), we are completely screwed.

2) You can’t cut 40% of spending (required to balance the budget) solely in defense or any other single category. It will take massive cuts in everything.

[sreeb]

[quote=permabear][quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

You debate the exact numbers but number make two things very clear:

1) If interest rate only go up by a factor of 4 (not unrealistic given how low they are now), we are completely screwed.

2) You can’t cut 40% of spending (required to balance the budget) solely in defense or any other single category. It will take massive cuts in everything.

[sreeb]

[quote=permabear][quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

You debate the exact numbers but number make two things very clear:

1) If interest rate only go up by a factor of 4 (not unrealistic given how low they are now), we are completely screwed.

2) You can’t cut 40% of spending (required to balance the budget) solely in defense or any other single category. It will take massive cuts in everything.

[sreeb]

[quote=permabear][quote=AN]Pensions $747.1 5.7
Health Care $783.8 6.0
Education $900.8 6.9
Defense $622.2 4.8
Welfare $411.4 3.2
Interest $312.3 2.4[/quote]

Those figures are somewhat deceiving. The defense budget doesn’t count spending that is under Homeland Security or the State Department or black ops. Several reports have found that billions of our defense budget is now off-books or hidden in other departments. Here’s a conservative estimate:

[quote=Mother Jones]But the real number is even higher, because, among other things, the OMB doesn’t count supplemental spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve combed through this year’s budget documents to add up military-related spending throughout the entire government…. The total: $780.4 billion[/quote]

Shock and Audit: The Hidden Defense Budget

You debate the exact numbers but number make two things very clear:

1) If interest rate only go up by a factor of 4 (not unrealistic given how low they are now), we are completely screwed.

2) You can’t cut 40% of spending (required to balance the budget) solely in defense or any other single category. It will take massive cuts in everything.

[SK in CV]

[quote=sreeb]
1) If interest rate only go up by a factor of 4 (not unrealistic given how low they are now), we are completely screwed.

[/quote]

Well, maybe not exactly. It would be detrimental, but US Govt bonds aren’t callable. I believe average maturity on outstanding government debt is about 5 years. (I have no idea how the inter-governmental debt figures into that average, like the special issue bonds for SS OAB.) So if rates go up by a factor of 4, interest paid will not suddently get quadrupled. The interest on long-term debt won’t change at all. It will increase expenditures for new bonds, but not by a factor of 4. Some of those bonds coming due were issued 10 years ago and more when rates were significantly higher than they are today.

[SK in CV]

[quote=sreeb]
1) If interest rate only go up by a factor of 4 (not unrealistic given how low they are now), we are completely screwed.

[/quote]

Well, maybe not exactly. It would be detrimental, but US Govt bonds aren’t callable. I believe average maturity on outstanding government debt is about 5 years. (I have no idea how the inter-governmental debt figures into that average, like the special issue bonds for SS OAB.) So if rates go up by a factor of 4, interest paid will not suddently get quadrupled. The interest on long-term debt won’t change at all. It will increase expenditures for new bonds, but not by a factor of 4. Some of those bonds coming due were issued 10 years ago and more when rates were significantly higher than they are today.

[SK in CV]

[quote=sreeb]
1) If interest rate only go up by a factor of 4 (not unrealistic given how low they are now), we are completely screwed.

[/quote]

Well, maybe not exactly. It would be detrimental, but US Govt bonds aren’t callable. I believe average maturity on outstanding government debt is about 5 years. (I have no idea how the inter-governmental debt figures into that average, like the special issue bonds for SS OAB.) So if rates go up by a factor of 4, interest paid will not suddently get quadrupled. The interest on long-term debt won’t change at all. It will increase expenditures for new bonds, but not by a factor of 4. Some of those bonds coming due were issued 10 years ago and more when rates were significantly higher than they are today.

[SK in CV]

[quote=sreeb]
1) If interest rate only go up by a factor of 4 (not unrealistic given how low they are now), we are completely screwed.

[/quote]

Well, maybe not exactly. It would be detrimental, but US Govt bonds aren’t callable. I believe average maturity on outstanding government debt is about 5 years. (I have no idea how the inter-governmental debt figures into that average, like the special issue bonds for SS OAB.) So if rates go up by a factor of 4, interest paid will not suddently get quadrupled. The interest on long-term debt won’t change at all. It will increase expenditures for new bonds, but not by a factor of 4. Some of those bonds coming due were issued 10 years ago and more when rates were significantly higher than they are today.

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