Quiet title

[gzz]

OK I just did what I suggested you do, and look for lawyers who have recently won cases in San Diego involving easements, and found this guy:

http://www.stevenjrobertspc.com/

I have never heard of him before or met him, but he did win a case in Claremont that invalidated old deed restrictions and also involved a secondary easement issue, and his website says he was involved with a public easement lawsuit in Torrey Pines.

[NotCranky]

It didn’t occur to me that these attorneys that specialize in RE including easements and boundary disputes may have never won a case about easements.

[NotCranky]

[quote=gzz][quote=Blogstar]

Today I got quotes from attorneys on just a demand letter. Attorney I found on Internet

3 hours at $275 was one.

Another by an attorney I suspect is more professional , experienced, maybe gets to the point a lot quicker and was referred by someone I trust in another profession.

1.5 hours @ $400 hr. So cost less![/quote]

That is reasonable for a short cease and desist letter, but probably not going to get a settlement for you.

Personally, I would never write a demand letter like they offered to do without a client who is already paid up and ready to follow through with suit if the letter is ignored. If I write a demand letter, they reject it, and you don’t follow through, that harms my reputation, and my future demand letters would be taken less seriously to the detriment of all my other clients.

I also would not do a quote in hours like this. The best demand letters come after the complaint it already written, and that point it would just be 20 or 30 minutes to write plus a proofread.

I suggest you see if you can get a firm offer to do all the steps in my prior post for a single flat rate. I also again suggest making a trip to the law library and searching for the attorney’s name on Lexis and seeing what type of record they have. I believe they have small branches in Chula Vista, El Cajon, and San Marcos.[/quote]

I was thinking about this last night. Committing right now to sue or not with the possibility that the demand letter being super simple to do after the complaint and settlement offers were written up (serving settlement offer with complaint)

What happens if the neighbor and I file suit at the same time more or less? Is there more hours for the Lawyer now answering the other complaint too? How much?

I am really on the fence about the demand alone first, or just filing a suit and serving it with a settlement letter. Most attorneys I am talking to will write the demand for a flat fee without retainer.

I’ll ask about the flat rate thing for getting through your suggested steps. I copied that post and have it handy now.

[NotCranky]

I an see where lawyers spend a lot of time getting interviewed by people who are ignorant of the legal system for nothing. Sorry folks, I just want to look before I leap. That could work out for me though, my opponent has zero patience.

[NotCranky]

Do Lawyers have lexis on their computers?
I think it would be funny to ask one to pull up their winning easement cases at their office.

[NotCranky]

I have been looking into the title company side of things. One lawyer told me that I have to think about a small payout from the title company or whether I want peaceful enjoyment of my easement. When I bought my property this easement was not the access. I still have the other road so the new one isn’t worth much more than what I paid for it. In fact, if the suit goes too far , soon s I pass the break even point and am going for it off principles. That may may be the case already.

As I have said before, I am not giving up a lot of info here. Another poster has given me what I feel like is solid advice in private messages where I pretty much gave him all the info. I appreciate learning more but the whole story is not up here.

That story lends a lot of credibility to strategies that might not seem sound based on what is on this thread alone.

[Hobie]

Good stuff from Gzz.

Gzz: I know the best option is to have atty run the case but Blog seems to have lots of evidence to support is claim of interference with the easement. Do you think he could be successful pro per? I guessing neighbor doesn’t have many defenses.

Blog: If you have other access to your property, why did you purchase easement? Easier access? I do understand you purchased it before neighbor moved in but selling it to neighbor is one of the settlement options. Regarding settlement, the value is what you determine, not what you paid.

Question: If you are not using the easement currently, why is neighbor hassling you? Or do the other neighbors still use the road and you are just his favorite one to pick on? Does he want that piece to build something on? Paddock, etc.

Not saying to roll over but just getting more info to help form strategy.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=gzz]Title issues are rare and title insurance is very profitable. I would not have purchased it myself based on these issues. their claims rate is very very very law.

to be safe, can you get the old title report from the seller to look for potential issues?[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback.

I think that I need to educate myself on title issues if I’m going to be a serious real estate investor. Sometimes, you chance upon properties where people have money issues and title is not squeaky clean. I suppose, that’s one way investors find good deals.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FlyerInHi]gzz mentioned title insurance. You should really look into that. Read your policy carefully.

On the subject of title insurance, I have the opportunity to buy a condo cash from an out of state seller who has some bankruptcy issues. Not sure what the title issue is (I still need to talk to the title officer)… but the seller owns it “free and clear” so to speak, without mortgage.

Would you buy the property without title insurance? What’s the worth that could happen? It is a very good deal, almost a killer deal.[/quote]

No, I wouldn’t, FIH. You could easily find yourself “subject to” any tax liens (Federal, state and property tax), HOA liens and judgment liens, for starters. As an 18-year member of PACER, I can tell you that you have no idea what this individual has declared in his/her assets in their BK (or failed to declare) or even if their BK has even been discharged (with or without declaring certain assets such as the condo, or certain debts). As you know, back taxes of any kind are not dischargeable in BK and the county has a permanent (unrecorded) lien on property taxes.

Even in the absence of any outstanding notes secured by trust deeds/mtgs (not sure what the term is in NV) on the condo, my experience has shown me that a preliminary title report can change for the worse in a matter of days or weeks (such as between postponements of a trustee’s sale).

In short, you don’t KNOW what or how much the owner owes their creditors, what stage of BK he/she is in, what they still owe in taxes (ex: the IRS could be ready to file a lien against them tomorrow … or already has). For this reason, I would always insist on approving a preliminary title report and having an owner’s title policy (CLTA in CA and customarily paid for by seller) issued in my name upon closing before I even thought about setting a closing date.

If it seems like a “killer deal,” there is likely a very good reason for that and you need to make it YOUR business to find out what that reason is if you are really interested in purchasing it.

[FlyerInHi]

BG, there are no liens on the seller in the county in question.
Taxes and HOA on the property are current.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FlyerInHi]BG, there are no liens on the seller in the county in question.
Taxes and HOA on the property are current.[/quote]Okay, buy it without a title policy at your peril. Even if you have to pay for the policy to get that “killer” price, it would be worth it, imho. Your owner’s BK filing is a HUGE RED FLAG waiving right in front of your eyes.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=gzz]Title issues are rare and title insurance is very profitable. I would not have purchased it myself based on these issues. their claims rate is very very very law.

to be safe, can you get the old title report from the seller to look for potential issues?[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback.

I think that I need to educate myself on title issues if I’m going to be a serious real estate investor. Sometimes, you chance upon properties where people have money issues and title is not squeaky clean. I suppose, that’s one way investors find good deals.[/quote]In my experience, 25-30% of BK debtors “forget” to list all their assets and debts (either by mistake or on purpose). Only a fraction of them have BK attorneys. A good portion of them routinely transfer over title to large boats, RV’s and any vehicles they don’t regularly use (essentially any asset they own with a public title, sometimes including real estate) to family members who will NOT be on the BK case with them almost immediately prior to filing their BK. It’s by design and the trustees have so many cases to handle that it works … except if one of the savvy creditors on the debtor’s “discharge list” has already done an asset search prior to the debtor’s title transfer(s) and has not yet been able to seize it (it was stored, hidden). Happens all the time.

[FlyerInHi]

Risks come with potential rewards. People buy distressed properties all the time and they make money.

I think that gzz is right. Title issues are rare.

I know of a case where someone transferred title to a “friend” who promised to pay.
When the “friend” didn’t pay, it became too costly to pursue. It’s was about $30k.
You have to travel to the county where the property is located and file suit there.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Blogstar] . . . What happens if the neighbor and I file suit at the same time more or less? Is there more hours for the Lawyer now answering the other complaint too? How much?[/quote]

This can’t happen, Russ. If the cases are filed within 59 days of one another and not yet served (the second filer doesn’t yet know about the first filer), then I believe the second case number will be “consolidated” into the first case number and all or a portion of the second-case filer’s first paper fee will be returned to them because they will now need to file a response to the first case if/when they are served with it and pay it over again. I don’t know how long it is taking the clerks to input new filings in the computer but I suspect they do it on the afternoon of filing, since the business office now closes at 3:30 pm and they don’t get off until 4:30 pm (or it is done by back-end staff all during the business day). So by the very next business day, the first case with the exact party names is in the court’s computer (which could ostensibly cause the second case filing with the exact same party names) to be rejected or consolidated shortly after filing it.

[quote=blogstar]I am really on the fence about the demand alone first, or just filing a suit and serving it with a settlement letter. Most attorneys I am talking to will write the demand for a flat fee without retainer.

I’ll ask about the flat rate thing for getting through your suggested steps. I copied that post and have it handy now.[/quote]Earlier on this thread, I suggested to you trying to get a “Limited Scope Representation” retainer agreement for the purpose of the atty preparing and sending your demand letter, preparing all your papers to file suit, leaving you to do the filing, finding a process server and other grunt work, such as gathering documents you might need in the future, etc. I feel that arrangement could save you a boatload of money as long as you didn’t end up needing to schedule an evidentiary hearing or trial, which could prove to be too “tricky” to prepare for and handle successfully by yourself (even if the other party didn’t show up for it after being notified by the court).

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Risks come with potential rewards. People buy distressed properties all the time and they make money. . .. [/quote]The “people” you’re speaking of (professional flipping teams, CD lenders/”investors,” trust deed buyers and sellers, REIT’s, professional buy-to-let investors such as Blackstone, etc) all have their fav title officers (and foreclosure trustees’) telephone numbers chained to their ankles 24/7.

They don’t conduct any RE transactions whatsoever without an up-to-the minute preliminary title report (PTR) in front of their faces and neither should you.

[Author]

Posts