Property Tax

[powayseller]

PD, now I understand why you are attacking me. Your husband is in the military. Therefore, nothing I say can influence your thinking.

However, while I asked a lot of questions, you attacked my intelligence. You say I am a denialist, that I did not read your posts, I glossed over regrettable fact, I denigrate this country, the blindness of my post.

The problem comes when people are so emotionally invested in supporting the military that they attack anyone who disagrees with them. Free speech? Perhaps, but at the cost of being labeled blind and denigrating?

I said I love this country, but not the foreign policy. Our foreign policy is despised all over the world. Have you any idea why? It’s the war mongering mentality, the constant meddling. Have you read Overthrow? Then you will realize the negative consequences of US meddling in foreign affairs.

Because of my disapproval of the military actions, you want me to return to Berlin. I’ve never even been to Berlin. Why should I go there now?

Should everyone who disagrees with you go back to their home country? Should all blacks who don’t like war go back to Africa? Isn’t it called free speech to say your mind?

Should all protesters return to their countries, too? My husband hates the Iraq war also, and his ancestors are from Norway. Perhaps he should go to Norway after he drops me off in Berlin?

You say I ignore the atrocities of the German people. Huh??? You lost me there.

I find that pro-war people attack anti-war people as being unpatriotic. Why is war patriotic? Can someone be patriotic and despise war and the military cause?

I can understand that your husband did not want to go to Iraq. Does he have the freedom to resist? Or would he be court martialed? How much freedom does a military member have to question, or is blind adherence required? I don’t think it’s worth it for him to risk his life for Iraq. I hope you will not call me any more names, but he has a duty to ensure his safety so he can raise his kids. Iraq is not worth dying for. Bush would never send his own daughters there, I can guarantee that. At some point, the military personnel must stand up and say, “I love my country and I will defend it, but I refuse to engage in offensive hostile war for your misguided mission, Mr. Bush”.

I wish for your husband’s safety. I’m sorry if I agitate you. I just don’t see the point of all this weapon stuff. It’s all hostile offense, the way I see it.

Look, if Iraq and Iran are such a threat, why aren’t the allies concerned? Why doesn’t Russia care about Iran’s nuclear project? Why is China negotiating with them? It must be because Iran is speaking the truth: they are working on peaceful nuclear projects. If they weren’t, wouldn’t Germany, England, and their neighboring countries be in arms? Why is the US usually the first one to want a war? Why not a war in Nigeria? Don’t we have atrocities there?

PD, if you really want to make the world better, go and improve the economies of these oppressed nations. Their terrorists are a result of a lack of hope and opportunity. The US could divert the bomb-making money to economic opportunities. Build a coalition with them, teach them to farm, educate their kids, bring healthcare technologies. This is what I mean with love. I don’t mean you go and hug them all, although you could 🙂 I mean you go and help them, so they don’t want to come and hurt you. No nation goes to hunt down its allies! You figure out how to make every country your allly, either by needing you for trade, or for support (food, medicine, education). I know this is a different way to think, but the military could take this approach.

Please don’t think that you must support Bush’s ideas to love your country. It’s okay to not blindly follow him. Bush is evil. So is war. Just because Afghanis kill each other, doesn’t mean we must do it also. Aren’t we above that?

[PD]

War is something that should be despised. It is horrible and ugly. It is also inevitable, not in every situation, but sometimes. It is foolish not to be ready for those times. I defend our need for a strong military not because my husband is a member, but because that is what I believe. I felt that way long before I met him.

I am certainly passionate about this issue. It comes out in my postings. It scares me that people actually believe that we could just dispense with our military. I want my children safe. I want my grandchildren safe. I want their children safe.

As for my husband’s freedom to resist serving in Iraq or in any other war zone, that came when he signed his name. It comes every time he has an opportunity to get out (he could currently give his notice that he intends to get out on any given day). Military service is voluntary. EVERY person who participates in our armed forces does so of their own free will. If they are sent to war they do not like, too bad. Conscientious objectors serving in the miltary I call something else entirely. I call them coward.

I did not say I wanted you to go to Germany. I intended to highlight the fact that you have praised Germany and that country’s education yet you still choose to live here. You have praised their system but have never so much as given a nod to their ugly, fairly recent past, at least in these postings.

You seem to be confusing my support of a strong military with a desire to go to war, further, a desire for the war in Iraq. It is possible to separate those things. I am not arguing political policy, rather our need for defense. I have posted previously that I do not believe everything we have done was right.

However, I do have a few comments that are policy related. Since we did not find WMD in Iraq, is that really proof positive that it was never there? Clinton tried negotiating and it did not work. The planning for 9/11 happened mostly when he was president. Do you hate Clinton for his failures? Do you call him evil for failing to protect us?

My argument is that war in inevitable. One only has to look at history to see that.
The difference between us is that I see the threats facing us. I do not think you see it. The world is full of people with whom you CANNOT reason. There are plenty of powerful people whom you could never influence through any means that you were willing to employ. Would you convert to Islam for the sake of peace? That is the only thing that would save you with some of those people.

World politics are extremely complex. I would never believe that just because Russia and China are saying little about Iran means there is nothing to worry about. Russia was our ally in WWII, until they took half of Europe. Have you ever done any business with the Chinese? If you have, enough said.

How can you deny the thousands of years of history that clearly show that human nature drives countries to warfare? Is a new paradigm really possible? Perhaps if we all just pray for a peaceful, permanently high plateau….

[PD]

PS, this article illustrates my point.
http://www.pgpft.com/On_Sheep_Wolves_and_Sheepdogs-Grossman.htm

[PerryChase]

People are generally good if you treat them with respect. I’ve traveled to many places around the world and I find that to be true.

Americans are very insular and like to dismiss desent by saying “why are you living here and complaining” or “love it or leave it.” I’ve come across plenty of Americans who live in foreign countries because they could make a lot of money and have a nice life yet despise their host countries.

I hate to say it but we are big boys with big toys so just don’t mess with us. Unfortunately, life is not black and white.

I think that if we had better education and better exposure to other cultures we could manage foreign affairs a lot better.

My view is that we should put less resources into consumption (SUVs, big houses, big screen TVs, overstuffed furniture, etc…)and the military. We need more education and learning. If I had a teenager, I would send him on a trip around the world before I buy him a new Mustang.

Unfortunately, corporations want us to buy their junk.

[powayseller]

I didn’t mention Germany’s past (persecution of Jews, WW I and WWII) and neither did I mention the US’s past (slavery, the only country to use nuclear bomb). What use is it to dig up all the evils of the past? It doesn’t give any justice to evil today.

My son says there should be no military anywhere, and then there would be no wars. Because the military fights. The military is responsible for using weapons.

Bush makes a grave mistake by not knowing how to negotiate with rogue nations. His attitude of “I am better than you so I won’t negotiate” is basically showing him as unable to cope with them. His neglect in talking with them doesn’t make them go away. If I had an enemy, I would try to find out why they hate me, and then make a plan to get along.

Osama bin Laden is angry at the US policy in the Middle East, and stepping on their holy soil, specifically US support of Israel. The US should just let Israel be. Our support of Israel is creating all the terrorist actions against us. Is that really worth it?

It is propaganda that he wants us all to be Islam, or that he hates our way of life. Bush lies to us about the real reason, just as he lies about inflation, the housing bubble, the global liquidity problem, the real reason we are in Iraq. Just like Clinton lied about his mistress.

I am relieved that Bush bully tactics toward Iran were not supported by our allies. Now C. Rice proposed giving airplanes to Iran, and that has their interest. Again we see that giving a nation something they want is more effective than threats and war.

Bush was ready to use nuclear bunker busters in Iran, and now we see that ending the airplane embargo is going to have the same result (perhaps). But yet you are ready to use nuclear weapons, right PD? I’m proposing we do more of the airplane-trade kind of stuff, and that we talk with all the leaders and make allies, instead of enemies.

The military complex and their lobbyists are keen on keeping the wars going. Their lobbyists are probably more powerful than the cigarette lobby. Imagine we are still selling a product that is killing millions. Cigarettes should be illegal, but the lobby makes sure it is legal. The weapons lobby makes sure that the military is viewed positively and funding is strong. It’s really sad, and a primitive form of production.

The saints are not smiling at us, when we are making weapons. It’s a misguided attempt at security.

PD, your thought about the WMD which really existed but were moved is almost funny.

If WMD really existed, the Iraqis surely would have used them against us when we went to war with them.

No evidence, no trace was found anywhere in Iraq or anywhere else, or in interrogations or weapons inspections, and you can bet the US military used everything at their dispoal to try to find this stuff.

I asked my cousin in Germany how they can afford so many social programs and free university education. She said, “We don’t have a big military to support,as you do”.

Most important, I don’t see how any nation at war can feel right with God. Unless one is attacked, one should not be invading another country. I believe Bush is evil in what he is making the military people do. It is a great sin to be fighting this war in Iraq. The soldiers are doing the wrong thing to be fighting over there. They should refuse, and come home. They can surely find other, more life supporting work. In their hearts, they probably know it is wrong, but they are trapped in their jobs. I feel bad for them. What else can you do when you are trained as a soldier?

[PD]

Like your son, I’m sure many children think we should get rid of military forces. That idea is very naive.

You still fail to address my main point. Human history is one of warfare. Did you read the link?

I have no desire to use any of our weapons, nuclear bombs included. It is foolish not to engage in the deterrence of having them.

Do you think we should get rid of our police force? They are forced to kill people now and again. A lot of money goes to their support. The police force has a domestic role that can be compared to the military’s global role. The police are a deterrent to crime and they step in to act, sometimes very violently, when the populace is in danger.

Once again, please address the thousands of years of human history that are rife with warfare. You go to great lengths to research the historical movements of housing and the stock markets as a way to predict the future yet you completely turn your back on a monumental amount of evidence that those people who are not ready to protect what they have, stand to lose it.

[zk]

PD quote: “Chinese people believe themselves to be superior to all other races.”

You don’t really believe that, right? You said that in the heat of the moment, right?

[powayseller]

PD, I am not reading the link. I don’t have any interest in reading about warfare. That’s why I didn’t like history in school, because it was obsessed with wars. We have to rise above those primitve ways of handling things.

Our police force acts as a deterrent, and a very small military would be the same. The current US military is in offense mode. It starts wars in countries around the world, and meddles in their foreign affairs.

I am in favor of a small military which would act to defend us, and stays on American soil. Our diplomats are the ones who should be all over the world, not our soldiers.

I dislike your racist comments against Chinese. I have Chinese friends, and they are not at all as you describe. I wonder too about your comments to send me “back to Berlin”. You know the current US is comprised of foreigners from all over, who ousted the native Indians and Mexicans. Should I send you back to Ireland or Poland or Africa, so the Indians could be returned to their rightful land?

No hard feelings against you. I still look forward to meeting you some day, even though our views on the military are at opposite ends.

[PD]

Zk, I was a little worked up. I was quoting what a friend once told me about her Chinese in-laws. They were very upset that their son was marrying a Philippino, as only a person of Chinese decent was good enough for their family. Any person of another background was inferior. In the end, they decided that she looked Chinese enough that they would try to pass her off of as Chinese to the extended family. She was firmly advised not to mention her true background. My statement was true in this case but I am aware that this is only one family. As such, it should not be applied to everyone.

I do think that China has the potential to try for world domination. This could take many forms. A financial battle is probably most likely but they certainly have the war machine and the people to run it. If war were to break out between our two countries, it would be horrific. We would probably be on the winning side for a while, then they would wear us down with attrition. Our military may not be deep enough to defeat them in the final analysis.

There is much to be admired in the Chinese culture. I have a great deal of respect for them and their amazing history. It is out of this respect for their strength and resolve that I would fear greatly for our country if were undefended.

[PD]

PS, the link is a statement about human nature. You encourage me to a read a book, yet you are not willing to read a short article.

You are attacking me without addressing the underlying message in my posts. I make no claims to perfection, or that I know everything or have the answer to everything. The more I learn, the more I realize I do not know. I do know much more about history and human psychology than the average person (though certainly not an expert).

I am very happy to admit that your knowledge of the intricacies of the global financial markets surpasses my own, probably by a long shot. You have previously admitted that your knowledge of history is not as well formed as your knowledge in other areas. I am a devotee of history. I try to learn more everyday. I do not think it possible to see where we are going as a global community without understanding the past.

It is human nature to engage in warfare. Warfare should be avoided. We should go to significant lengths to avoid it. However, global situations change, sometimes frighteningly fast. An unprepared country can quickly become a dominated country.

[Anonymous]

This just in…..foreclosures up in SoCal

The number of foreclosures escalated throughout Southern California, with a rise of 29.09 percent since January 2006, says Default Research, the real estate research company for foreclosure properties. While Riverside had the highest increase of 56.45 percent, San Diego County had an increase of 49 percent, followed by Los Angeles up 16.2 percent. “Just as we reported back in March, the real estate bubble continues to deflate in Southern California,” says Serdar Bankaci, president and CEO of Default Research. “This is not surprising at all because home prices are leveling off.”

The houses that were most affected by the foreclosures were single-family homes which made up 76 percent of the activity. Twelve percent were condominiums and 4 percent were duplexes and triplexes.

–Source: Foreclosure tracking service, Default Research

[zk]

Chartwelltm:

What is that, Real Estate info? As you can see, we were discussing the military and warfare. If you want to discuss real estate, I suggest you go to a real esta….

Oh, wait. Nevermind.

[zk]

I think it’s obvious that there are large segments of each and every racial and ethnic group who think that they are superior to all other races. As I’m sure you know, plenty of white people have said, “she’s not good enough for my son. She’s (black, hispanic, Chinese, Native American, whatever).” I’m a little surprised (and more than a little worried about how the average person thinks) that someone who claims to “know much more about history and human psychology than the average person” would hear a Chinese person say that and see it from such a limited perspective.

I don’t think it’s any more prevalent among Chinese than any other race. But I do think that it’s among the major causes of war in human history. That, and warring with another race because you’ve jumped to conclusions about that race using limited information. Not that you would do that, PD.

[Lickitysplit]

PD, thank you so much for your posts. As I don’t have the time to write all that I’d love to say, I’ll be brief and to the point(s).

– PS, this thread and those like it are exactly why I suggested we refrain from political discussion. Here we have a thread supposedly on property tax, and now the majority of the posts here are regarding politics/foreign policy. I agree RE does not fuction in a vaccum, but you’d be hard pressed to say this thread, like so many others, has not been highjacked. This highjacking seems to becoming more common, and, I believe that often you are the first to steer the posts off into politics/foreign policy. This is in no intended as an attack, merely an observation.

– “Just abandon Isreal and the world will love us”
This worked out so well for both Poland and the world when Hitler fixed his eye on the Sudatenland. “We need breeding room!” he cried. “Well, we don’t want a fight, so lets just give it to him so he’s happy,” said the world/League of Nations. Anyone remembered what followed? What do you think would happen to Isreal and its people if the US offically withdrew support? What would Palastine (Hamas, Fatah, PLO, Islamic Jihad), al Quada, Iran, etc do? Call for more peaceful “cultural understanding?”

– “What we need is more education, more international travel, more understanding”
This is a wonderfully feel-good sentement that works in some regards and fails miserably in others. I’m fairly well traveled for my age, having visited a dozen or so other countries. I’m no where near my folks in this regard, who have circled the world twice since Y2K and can’t agree on how many countries they have been to in that time (I think it’s something like 60-70… if they can’t keep count I sure can’t). Much of this travel has been “off the beaten path” in places ranging from Kenya, South Africa, Isreal, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Uzbekistan, China, Russia, India, small pacific kingdoms, etc etc etc. Neither of my folks has love of war, particuarly my rather liberal mother. What they have directly seen in key Muslim countries has made them both very sad. They have seen the schools were young Muslims are made to memorize the Koran, with emphasis on jihad and the command to kill the infidel (aka non-Muslim) and reclaim all land ever controlled by Islam. They have watched as the children are taught to demonize westerners and all things non-Muslim. To claim that we lack understanding of their culture is to completely misunderstand the struggle in which we are involved. Perhaps, and this is a big perhaps, the struggle could be peacibly resolved if they understood the rest of the world better. Perhaps… but this would require a not-too-small overhaul of a world religion. Assuming this has merit, how do we go about increasing the information availible to Muslims in direct competition to such indoctrination? Internet, print, TV, student visas, etc. All things we are trying to do… although I would argue that the political leanings of much of the free world print and TV results in propoganda better spun for the jihadi intrests than for the improvement of Muslim understanding of western culture.

-“France, Germany, Russia, China aren’t worried/are doing business, so why should we worry?”
Look into the history of the UN’s Oil for Food program for an easy example of why we should worry

-“Germany, Switzerland, etc spends more on social programs and less on military”
Many of these countries are basically defended by US bases. Have you compared the average economic growth of these countries to ours? Hint: social welfare programs are a heavy burden on a nation’s economy.

[powayseller]

Lsplit – you condemn the hijacking, and then embark full force. So you approve of hijacking the thread?

I don’t think China wants to take us over, PD.

Anyway, I’m done with this thread, reading and posting. I haven’t had the response I had hoped, which is a realization that we must improve our foreign policy.

[Author]

Posts