OT – Whitman Hired Illegal Worker

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country…….[/quote]

Anyone disagree with Alan, go to your television guide, and take a look at the listings. Sorta makes it difficult to dispute.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.[/quote]

Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

But it’s so much more satisfying to bitch and moan about how people who are really Communists and Socialists are taking away our rights and our country. Especially since there are a lot of people in chatrooms and message boards who are saying exactly the same thing. And it really gets fun when we start talking about how we might have to load our guns and take matters into our own hands. It’s times like that when I can almost forget that I’m in a dead-end job because I thought school was boring and a joke, or that my wife lost hers because her employer downsized and chose to keep the more-dependable employee. Or that I’m in the late stages of foreclosure because I took out a giant risky loan to buy a house bigger than my sister’s, and then sucked all the equity out of it so that I could invest in a boat and matching fully-loaded Yukons for me and the wife. Or that I have $75K in credit card debt because I didn’t want my baby girl to have to face the other girls at school without the breast implants and nosejob she needed.

Seriously, there’s a lot going on in the US today that’s protest-worthy. But, as I said earlier, most of these people have no idea what they’re protesting against. They’re simply following some other opportunistic politician(s), repeating every word and phrase they’re fed, and accomplishing nothing but polarization in the process.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Gee, Alan, you’re starting to sound like Ayn Rand. I elect you to be John Galt in the film.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

[/quote]

Eavesdropper: First off, excellent post. You made a point earlier about critical thinking and analysis, and how those abilities have vanished. I would certainly agree wholeheartedly with that, especially when sparring with posters like BigGubment or Brian. It has nothing to do with honestly and reflectively assessing a situation and then finding the best solution. No, its now abuot scoring points and pointing fingers.

What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

My background is in accounting and corporate finance and there’s a great term called “opportunity cost”, meaning that, if I do A instead of B, I lose the opportunity to do B, which may be a better use of my time. If I sit and watch some gabbling member of the chattering class bloviate about Rick Sanchez’s purported anti-Semitism, I’m not spending time working, or raising my kids, or contributing to my part of the social contract by volunteering or helping build a better society.

You’re right: It is easier to bitch, or blame the other side, or just sit and wring our hands and piss and moan about the unfairness of it all. Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

[/quote]

Eavesdropper: First off, excellent post. You made a point earlier about critical thinking and analysis, and how those abilities have vanished. I would certainly agree wholeheartedly with that, especially when sparring with posters like BigGubment or Brian. It has nothing to do with honestly and reflectively assessing a situation and then finding the best solution. No, its now abuot scoring points and pointing fingers.

What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

My background is in accounting and corporate finance and there’s a great term called “opportunity cost”, meaning that, if I do A instead of B, I lose the opportunity to do B, which may be a better use of my time. If I sit and watch some gabbling member of the chattering class bloviate about Rick Sanchez’s purported anti-Semitism, I’m not spending time working, or raising my kids, or contributing to my part of the social contract by volunteering or helping build a better society.

You’re right: It is easier to bitch, or blame the other side, or just sit and wring our hands and piss and moan about the unfairness of it all. Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

[/quote]

Eavesdropper: First off, excellent post. You made a point earlier about critical thinking and analysis, and how those abilities have vanished. I would certainly agree wholeheartedly with that, especially when sparring with posters like BigGubment or Brian. It has nothing to do with honestly and reflectively assessing a situation and then finding the best solution. No, its now abuot scoring points and pointing fingers.

What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

My background is in accounting and corporate finance and there’s a great term called “opportunity cost”, meaning that, if I do A instead of B, I lose the opportunity to do B, which may be a better use of my time. If I sit and watch some gabbling member of the chattering class bloviate about Rick Sanchez’s purported anti-Semitism, I’m not spending time working, or raising my kids, or contributing to my part of the social contract by volunteering or helping build a better society.

You’re right: It is easier to bitch, or blame the other side, or just sit and wring our hands and piss and moan about the unfairness of it all. Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

[/quote]

Eavesdropper: First off, excellent post. You made a point earlier about critical thinking and analysis, and how those abilities have vanished. I would certainly agree wholeheartedly with that, especially when sparring with posters like BigGubment or Brian. It has nothing to do with honestly and reflectively assessing a situation and then finding the best solution. No, its now abuot scoring points and pointing fingers.

What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

My background is in accounting and corporate finance and there’s a great term called “opportunity cost”, meaning that, if I do A instead of B, I lose the opportunity to do B, which may be a better use of my time. If I sit and watch some gabbling member of the chattering class bloviate about Rick Sanchez’s purported anti-Semitism, I’m not spending time working, or raising my kids, or contributing to my part of the social contract by volunteering or helping build a better society.

You’re right: It is easier to bitch, or blame the other side, or just sit and wring our hands and piss and moan about the unfairness of it all. Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=eavesdropper]
Because that’s all that most Americans CAN do. If you don’t want to put the time and effort and energy into education – and this means for your entire life – you’re only capable of sitting around and pointing fingers.

This is my biggest gripe about all the pontificating and sign-waving that are going on, and accusations that are being irresponsibly (and, at times, falsely) flung. Most of these people aren’t angry because they’re concerned about the state of the nation. They’re pissed off about deficiencies in their own lives. Deficiencies that, much of the time, are the result of poorly-made personal choices.

[/quote]

Eavesdropper: First off, excellent post. You made a point earlier about critical thinking and analysis, and how those abilities have vanished. I would certainly agree wholeheartedly with that, especially when sparring with posters like BigGubment or Brian. It has nothing to do with honestly and reflectively assessing a situation and then finding the best solution. No, its now abuot scoring points and pointing fingers.

What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

My background is in accounting and corporate finance and there’s a great term called “opportunity cost”, meaning that, if I do A instead of B, I lose the opportunity to do B, which may be a better use of my time. If I sit and watch some gabbling member of the chattering class bloviate about Rick Sanchez’s purported anti-Semitism, I’m not spending time working, or raising my kids, or contributing to my part of the social contract by volunteering or helping build a better society.

You’re right: It is easier to bitch, or blame the other side, or just sit and wring our hands and piss and moan about the unfairness of it all. Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.[/quote]

We Piggs have to buy a TV network. The commentary would be intelligent and diverse (something missing from just about every network news production except that of PBS and Comedy Central these days), and we certainly could do a better job than the Hannitys, Olbermans, Becks, Scarboroughs, Schultzes, and whoever is the latest through CNN’s revolving door. We can call it TSNN (Tough Shit News Network) and use slogans like, “You’re Not Going To Like What We’re Going To Tell You”. And “If You Can’t Handle It, Don’t Tune In”. And “If You’re Looking For Someone Who Agrees With You, Change the Channel.” And “Trying To Make A Difference In America. Not In Your Screwup Of A Life”. No human interest stories here. And no journalists posing as neutral commentators. No fake outrage. In fact, no emotion of any sort. We’re reporting the news, for pete’s sake.

Oh, and every penny we’d make, over and above production costs, would be donated to pay off the national debt. I think we’d be a cinch to succeed. But, if not, who gives a rat’s ass.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.[/quote]

We Piggs have to buy a TV network. The commentary would be intelligent and diverse (something missing from just about every network news production except that of PBS and Comedy Central these days), and we certainly could do a better job than the Hannitys, Olbermans, Becks, Scarboroughs, Schultzes, and whoever is the latest through CNN’s revolving door. We can call it TSNN (Tough Shit News Network) and use slogans like, “You’re Not Going To Like What We’re Going To Tell You”. And “If You Can’t Handle It, Don’t Tune In”. And “If You’re Looking For Someone Who Agrees With You, Change the Channel.” And “Trying To Make A Difference In America. Not In Your Screwup Of A Life”. No human interest stories here. And no journalists posing as neutral commentators. No fake outrage. In fact, no emotion of any sort. We’re reporting the news, for pete’s sake.

Oh, and every penny we’d make, over and above production costs, would be donated to pay off the national debt. I think we’d be a cinch to succeed. But, if not, who gives a rat’s ass.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.[/quote]

We Piggs have to buy a TV network. The commentary would be intelligent and diverse (something missing from just about every network news production except that of PBS and Comedy Central these days), and we certainly could do a better job than the Hannitys, Olbermans, Becks, Scarboroughs, Schultzes, and whoever is the latest through CNN’s revolving door. We can call it TSNN (Tough Shit News Network) and use slogans like, “You’re Not Going To Like What We’re Going To Tell You”. And “If You Can’t Handle It, Don’t Tune In”. And “If You’re Looking For Someone Who Agrees With You, Change the Channel.” And “Trying To Make A Difference In America. Not In Your Screwup Of A Life”. No human interest stories here. And no journalists posing as neutral commentators. No fake outrage. In fact, no emotion of any sort. We’re reporting the news, for pete’s sake.

Oh, and every penny we’d make, over and above production costs, would be donated to pay off the national debt. I think we’d be a cinch to succeed. But, if not, who gives a rat’s ass.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.[/quote]

We Piggs have to buy a TV network. The commentary would be intelligent and diverse (something missing from just about every network news production except that of PBS and Comedy Central these days), and we certainly could do a better job than the Hannitys, Olbermans, Becks, Scarboroughs, Schultzes, and whoever is the latest through CNN’s revolving door. We can call it TSNN (Tough Shit News Network) and use slogans like, “You’re Not Going To Like What We’re Going To Tell You”. And “If You Can’t Handle It, Don’t Tune In”. And “If You’re Looking For Someone Who Agrees With You, Change the Channel.” And “Trying To Make A Difference In America. Not In Your Screwup Of A Life”. No human interest stories here. And no journalists posing as neutral commentators. No fake outrage. In fact, no emotion of any sort. We’re reporting the news, for pete’s sake.

Oh, and every penny we’d make, over and above production costs, would be donated to pay off the national debt. I think we’d be a cinch to succeed. But, if not, who gives a rat’s ass.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] What I call the “genuine liberal” or “genuine center-left” posters like SK, afx or Gandalf, bring an intelligent, thoughtful approach to debate and dialogue, but, more than that, a genuine concern for the well-being of this country. It isn’t about tit-for-tat mudslinging, or what Rich calls a “right versus left slapfest”. Its about trying to find common ground and common cause and fix the damn problem.

Unfortunately, we’re now a part of, and consumed by, a 24 hour news cycle that treats everything, no matter how mundane, stupid or non-sensical, as grist for the mill and worthy of public view. Hence, we treat a lunatic moron like Christine O’Donnell as an honest-to-God Senate candidate, or a triumphalist Know-Nothing like Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential worthy.

Hopefully, we’ll wake to the reality that that won’t get it done and we need to get off our collective asses and get back in the game. Or not. There’s always Canada.[/quote]

We Piggs have to buy a TV network. The commentary would be intelligent and diverse (something missing from just about every network news production except that of PBS and Comedy Central these days), and we certainly could do a better job than the Hannitys, Olbermans, Becks, Scarboroughs, Schultzes, and whoever is the latest through CNN’s revolving door. We can call it TSNN (Tough Shit News Network) and use slogans like, “You’re Not Going To Like What We’re Going To Tell You”. And “If You Can’t Handle It, Don’t Tune In”. And “If You’re Looking For Someone Who Agrees With You, Change the Channel.” And “Trying To Make A Difference In America. Not In Your Screwup Of A Life”. No human interest stories here. And no journalists posing as neutral commentators. No fake outrage. In fact, no emotion of any sort. We’re reporting the news, for pete’s sake.

Oh, and every penny we’d make, over and above production costs, would be donated to pay off the national debt. I think we’d be a cinch to succeed. But, if not, who gives a rat’s ass.

[scaredyclassic]

You guys are making me feel bad for not actually producing anything. But at least I’m not blaming any particular group for anything. I like me life; I’m just maybe perhaps useless.

[scaredyclassic]

You guys are making me feel bad for not actually producing anything. But at least I’m not blaming any particular group for anything. I like me life; I’m just maybe perhaps useless.

[scaredyclassic]

You guys are making me feel bad for not actually producing anything. But at least I’m not blaming any particular group for anything. I like me life; I’m just maybe perhaps useless.

[scaredyclassic]

You guys are making me feel bad for not actually producing anything. But at least I’m not blaming any particular group for anything. I like me life; I’m just maybe perhaps useless.

[Author]

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