OT – Whitman Hired Illegal Worker

[Coronita]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

FLU: Speaking of anti-union bias: I never had an anti-union bias until I actually started working with unions and union workers.

Case in point. I did a pair of retrofits for a client with facilities in Michigan and Colorado. Both projects were completely identical, I mean right down to the bolt specifications. However, in Michigan, we had to use union labor and in Colorado we didn’t.

The difference in labor costs was astounding. We paid nearly $600k for labor in Michigan and $470k for labor in Colorado and for identical jobs, with identical scopes of work. The non-union project went off without a hitch, but the union job was a frickin’ nightmare. We had supervision issues (they tried to charge us for three supervisors to watch eight employees, when only one supervisor was necessary), work stoppage issues (they would stop work at the slightest change in scope of work), and were constantly threatened with litigation (they tried to claim slip-and-fall when one of their guys had his foot slip from the second rung of a ladder and said that his knee was “blown”). Absolutely infuriating, especially when these clowns would come to work in hard hats proudly displaying the American flag and claiming that “union labor built the USA”. Maybe so, but this generation of union labor sure as shit didn’t. They weren’t just lazy, they were criminally stupid, too.

That was unfortunately the first of now dozens of projects where I’ve had to deal with unions and, nearly without exception, those same experiences have repeated themselves.

We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.

Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Welcome to the darkside, my friend. I wasn’t kidding about issues I’ve had in my more youthful years working at a bureaucratic company so think in read tape that I couldn’t physically move my computer 2 doors down because it violated “union rules” to move anything without getting the movers to move it (which would take 2-3 weeks)…

I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Shadowfax]O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.[/quote]

Shadowfax: You make an excellent point about unions having their time and place. With the creation of organizations like OSHA (and CalOSHA) and labor laws preventing child labor, discrimination based on race, color, and creed, the need for unions is long past.

I remember listening to a union supervisor explaining why I should pay for an iron worker and a welder (each at around $100/hr with burden), plus a $75/hr supervisor, to install a chain link fence, versus paying a qualified fence crew (two guys at $30/hr each). When I brought up the obvious disparity in cost, he started in on all the value that unions have brought to America over the years, and that this is how we “protect our jobs” (implying that its un-American not to hire union workers). Its a freakin’ shakedown, nothing more.

If you want to look at why GM, Ford and Mopar melted down, look no further than inept management and self-destructive collective bargaining agreements negotiated by the UAW and AFL-CIO. When it costs $70k per year to have an unskilled worker put a bolt into a hole, you know something’s gone seriously wrong.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Shadowfax]O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.[/quote]

Shadowfax: You make an excellent point about unions having their time and place. With the creation of organizations like OSHA (and CalOSHA) and labor laws preventing child labor, discrimination based on race, color, and creed, the need for unions is long past.

I remember listening to a union supervisor explaining why I should pay for an iron worker and a welder (each at around $100/hr with burden), plus a $75/hr supervisor, to install a chain link fence, versus paying a qualified fence crew (two guys at $30/hr each). When I brought up the obvious disparity in cost, he started in on all the value that unions have brought to America over the years, and that this is how we “protect our jobs” (implying that its un-American not to hire union workers). Its a freakin’ shakedown, nothing more.

If you want to look at why GM, Ford and Mopar melted down, look no further than inept management and self-destructive collective bargaining agreements negotiated by the UAW and AFL-CIO. When it costs $70k per year to have an unskilled worker put a bolt into a hole, you know something’s gone seriously wrong.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Shadowfax]O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.[/quote]

Shadowfax: You make an excellent point about unions having their time and place. With the creation of organizations like OSHA (and CalOSHA) and labor laws preventing child labor, discrimination based on race, color, and creed, the need for unions is long past.

I remember listening to a union supervisor explaining why I should pay for an iron worker and a welder (each at around $100/hr with burden), plus a $75/hr supervisor, to install a chain link fence, versus paying a qualified fence crew (two guys at $30/hr each). When I brought up the obvious disparity in cost, he started in on all the value that unions have brought to America over the years, and that this is how we “protect our jobs” (implying that its un-American not to hire union workers). Its a freakin’ shakedown, nothing more.

If you want to look at why GM, Ford and Mopar melted down, look no further than inept management and self-destructive collective bargaining agreements negotiated by the UAW and AFL-CIO. When it costs $70k per year to have an unskilled worker put a bolt into a hole, you know something’s gone seriously wrong.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Shadowfax]O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.[/quote]

Shadowfax: You make an excellent point about unions having their time and place. With the creation of organizations like OSHA (and CalOSHA) and labor laws preventing child labor, discrimination based on race, color, and creed, the need for unions is long past.

I remember listening to a union supervisor explaining why I should pay for an iron worker and a welder (each at around $100/hr with burden), plus a $75/hr supervisor, to install a chain link fence, versus paying a qualified fence crew (two guys at $30/hr each). When I brought up the obvious disparity in cost, he started in on all the value that unions have brought to America over the years, and that this is how we “protect our jobs” (implying that its un-American not to hire union workers). Its a freakin’ shakedown, nothing more.

If you want to look at why GM, Ford and Mopar melted down, look no further than inept management and self-destructive collective bargaining agreements negotiated by the UAW and AFL-CIO. When it costs $70k per year to have an unskilled worker put a bolt into a hole, you know something’s gone seriously wrong.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Shadowfax]O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.[/quote]

Shadowfax: You make an excellent point about unions having their time and place. With the creation of organizations like OSHA (and CalOSHA) and labor laws preventing child labor, discrimination based on race, color, and creed, the need for unions is long past.

I remember listening to a union supervisor explaining why I should pay for an iron worker and a welder (each at around $100/hr with burden), plus a $75/hr supervisor, to install a chain link fence, versus paying a qualified fence crew (two guys at $30/hr each). When I brought up the obvious disparity in cost, he started in on all the value that unions have brought to America over the years, and that this is how we “protect our jobs” (implying that its un-American not to hire union workers). Its a freakin’ shakedown, nothing more.

If you want to look at why GM, Ford and Mopar melted down, look no further than inept management and self-destructive collective bargaining agreements negotiated by the UAW and AFL-CIO. When it costs $70k per year to have an unskilled worker put a bolt into a hole, you know something’s gone seriously wrong.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu][quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu][quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

You know, I see these folks holding the sign up all the time, and I was wondering the same thing… I’m still waiting for the sign that says “Shame on Flu…Labor dispute”…..[/quote]

I never watched that daily show clip, until now. I guess I am not the only one with these thoughts!!![/quote]

To add to this, I find it these “shame on xyz” things ironically hysterical….

I mean, I have this anti-union sort of bias that I think of the stereotype image of a bunch of union workers sitting on their asses all day doing nothing and complaining….

Except these “shame on xyz” things take it completely to the next level.. I mean, are we so fvkcing lazy now, we don’t even want to do our own sit-ins/protests, but rather outsource our protests to someone else that costs 1/10 the price????

Now THAT’S FUNNY..[/quote]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu][quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu][quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

You know, I see these folks holding the sign up all the time, and I was wondering the same thing… I’m still waiting for the sign that says “Shame on Flu…Labor dispute”…..[/quote]

I never watched that daily show clip, until now. I guess I am not the only one with these thoughts!!![/quote]

To add to this, I find it these “shame on xyz” things ironically hysterical….

I mean, I have this anti-union sort of bias that I think of the stereotype image of a bunch of union workers sitting on their asses all day doing nothing and complaining….

Except these “shame on xyz” things take it completely to the next level.. I mean, are we so fvkcing lazy now, we don’t even want to do our own sit-ins/protests, but rather outsource our protests to someone else that costs 1/10 the price????

Now THAT’S FUNNY..[/quote]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu][quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu][quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

You know, I see these folks holding the sign up all the time, and I was wondering the same thing… I’m still waiting for the sign that says “Shame on Flu…Labor dispute”…..[/quote]

I never watched that daily show clip, until now. I guess I am not the only one with these thoughts!!![/quote]

To add to this, I find it these “shame on xyz” things ironically hysterical….

I mean, I have this anti-union sort of bias that I think of the stereotype image of a bunch of union workers sitting on their asses all day doing nothing and complaining….

Except these “shame on xyz” things take it completely to the next level.. I mean, are we so fvkcing lazy now, we don’t even want to do our own sit-ins/protests, but rather outsource our protests to someone else that costs 1/10 the price????

Now THAT’S FUNNY..[/quote]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu][quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu][quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

You know, I see these folks holding the sign up all the time, and I was wondering the same thing… I’m still waiting for the sign that says “Shame on Flu…Labor dispute”…..[/quote]

I never watched that daily show clip, until now. I guess I am not the only one with these thoughts!!![/quote]

To add to this, I find it these “shame on xyz” things ironically hysterical….

I mean, I have this anti-union sort of bias that I think of the stereotype image of a bunch of union workers sitting on their asses all day doing nothing and complaining….

Except these “shame on xyz” things take it completely to the next level.. I mean, are we so fvkcing lazy now, we don’t even want to do our own sit-ins/protests, but rather outsource our protests to someone else that costs 1/10 the price????

Now THAT’S FUNNY..[/quote]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?

[eavesdropper]

[quote=flu][quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu][quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

You know, I see these folks holding the sign up all the time, and I was wondering the same thing… I’m still waiting for the sign that says “Shame on Flu…Labor dispute”…..[/quote]

I never watched that daily show clip, until now. I guess I am not the only one with these thoughts!!![/quote]

To add to this, I find it these “shame on xyz” things ironically hysterical….

I mean, I have this anti-union sort of bias that I think of the stereotype image of a bunch of union workers sitting on their asses all day doing nothing and complaining….

Except these “shame on xyz” things take it completely to the next level.. I mean, are we so fvkcing lazy now, we don’t even want to do our own sit-ins/protests, but rather outsource our protests to someone else that costs 1/10 the price????

Now THAT’S FUNNY..[/quote]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?

[Coronita]

[quote=eavesdropper][quote=flu][quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu][quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

You know, I see these folks holding the sign up all the time, and I was wondering the same thing… I’m still waiting for the sign that says “Shame on Flu…Labor dispute”…..[/quote]

I never watched that daily show clip, until now. I guess I am not the only one with these thoughts!!![/quote]

To add to this, I find it these “shame on xyz” things ironically hysterical….

I mean, I have this anti-union sort of bias that I think of the stereotype image of a bunch of union workers sitting on their asses all day doing nothing and complaining….

Except these “shame on xyz” things take it completely to the next level.. I mean, are we so fvkcing lazy now, we don’t even want to do our own sit-ins/protests, but rather outsource our protests to someone else that costs 1/10 the price????

Now THAT’S FUNNY..[/quote]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?[/quote]

Um let me respond when I have more time. But I’ll say this

1) You wouldn’t want my job. Chances are you wouldn’t be able to hack it…. (no offense)..

2) I’ve been fortunate enough to have those folks that hold up the labor dispute signs up several times in front of some of the offices I visited. And I’ve always was curious what the deal was…The funny thing is that about 8 times out of 10, when I tried to talk to those folks with those signs, none of them new what they were picketing about..I won’t even go into the direction as to which language I had to use to try to carry a conversation, because that would be heresy to discuss…..So…. That goes back to my original point…Obviously, someone was hired to sit in and picket…Frankly, I’m all for workers rights and all, but let’s face it unions have overstepped their powers…There’s a huge disconnect between maltreatment of workers and what the gist of original unions stood for and what it currently is right now.. The later is borderline legalized extortion….When there are rules to move a computer or 2 boxes by “union workers” only, and it takes two weeks to have the job done…..something is seriously wrong….It’s completely illogical.

And spare me the argument about being outsourced if unions weren’t around. I deal with the threat of outsourcing every day. And I can tell you that if software code could only be written by rules that it takes each person could only write 200 lines of code per hour without being paid overtime and that it takes a minimum of 10 people to write 10000 lines, with 4 shift supervisors, and that every bug that was found or fixed would be an additional per “bug” count extra pay, I guarantee three things would have happened

1) My wallets would be much fatter than what they are now in the short term.
2) innovation would come to a grinding halt
3) 90% of all work would find it’s way overseas in less than 2 years..

BTW: Do you know what the majority of those protestors that hold up the signs are actually protesting? Just curious…

[Coronita]

[quote=eavesdropper][quote=flu][quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu][quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

You know, I see these folks holding the sign up all the time, and I was wondering the same thing… I’m still waiting for the sign that says “Shame on Flu…Labor dispute”…..[/quote]

I never watched that daily show clip, until now. I guess I am not the only one with these thoughts!!![/quote]

To add to this, I find it these “shame on xyz” things ironically hysterical….

I mean, I have this anti-union sort of bias that I think of the stereotype image of a bunch of union workers sitting on their asses all day doing nothing and complaining….

Except these “shame on xyz” things take it completely to the next level.. I mean, are we so fvkcing lazy now, we don’t even want to do our own sit-ins/protests, but rather outsource our protests to someone else that costs 1/10 the price????

Now THAT’S FUNNY..[/quote]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?[/quote]

Um let me respond when I have more time. But I’ll say this

1) You wouldn’t want my job. Chances are you wouldn’t be able to hack it…. (no offense)..

2) I’ve been fortunate enough to have those folks that hold up the labor dispute signs up several times in front of some of the offices I visited. And I’ve always was curious what the deal was…The funny thing is that about 8 times out of 10, when I tried to talk to those folks with those signs, none of them new what they were picketing about..I won’t even go into the direction as to which language I had to use to try to carry a conversation, because that would be heresy to discuss…..So…. That goes back to my original point…Obviously, someone was hired to sit in and picket…Frankly, I’m all for workers rights and all, but let’s face it unions have overstepped their powers…There’s a huge disconnect between maltreatment of workers and what the gist of original unions stood for and what it currently is right now.. The later is borderline legalized extortion….When there are rules to move a computer or 2 boxes by “union workers” only, and it takes two weeks to have the job done…..something is seriously wrong….It’s completely illogical.

And spare me the argument about being outsourced if unions weren’t around. I deal with the threat of outsourcing every day. And I can tell you that if software code could only be written by rules that it takes each person could only write 200 lines of code per hour without being paid overtime and that it takes a minimum of 10 people to write 10000 lines, with 4 shift supervisors, and that every bug that was found or fixed would be an additional per “bug” count extra pay, I guarantee three things would have happened

1) My wallets would be much fatter than what they are now in the short term.
2) innovation would come to a grinding halt
3) 90% of all work would find it’s way overseas in less than 2 years..

BTW: Do you know what the majority of those protestors that hold up the signs are actually protesting? Just curious…

[Coronita]

[quote=eavesdropper][quote=flu][quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu][quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

You know, I see these folks holding the sign up all the time, and I was wondering the same thing… I’m still waiting for the sign that says “Shame on Flu…Labor dispute”…..[/quote]

I never watched that daily show clip, until now. I guess I am not the only one with these thoughts!!![/quote]

To add to this, I find it these “shame on xyz” things ironically hysterical….

I mean, I have this anti-union sort of bias that I think of the stereotype image of a bunch of union workers sitting on their asses all day doing nothing and complaining….

Except these “shame on xyz” things take it completely to the next level.. I mean, are we so fvkcing lazy now, we don’t even want to do our own sit-ins/protests, but rather outsource our protests to someone else that costs 1/10 the price????

Now THAT’S FUNNY..[/quote]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?[/quote]

Um let me respond when I have more time. But I’ll say this

1) You wouldn’t want my job. Chances are you wouldn’t be able to hack it…. (no offense)..

2) I’ve been fortunate enough to have those folks that hold up the labor dispute signs up several times in front of some of the offices I visited. And I’ve always was curious what the deal was…The funny thing is that about 8 times out of 10, when I tried to talk to those folks with those signs, none of them new what they were picketing about..I won’t even go into the direction as to which language I had to use to try to carry a conversation, because that would be heresy to discuss…..So…. That goes back to my original point…Obviously, someone was hired to sit in and picket…Frankly, I’m all for workers rights and all, but let’s face it unions have overstepped their powers…There’s a huge disconnect between maltreatment of workers and what the gist of original unions stood for and what it currently is right now.. The later is borderline legalized extortion….When there are rules to move a computer or 2 boxes by “union workers” only, and it takes two weeks to have the job done…..something is seriously wrong….It’s completely illogical.

And spare me the argument about being outsourced if unions weren’t around. I deal with the threat of outsourcing every day. And I can tell you that if software code could only be written by rules that it takes each person could only write 200 lines of code per hour without being paid overtime and that it takes a minimum of 10 people to write 10000 lines, with 4 shift supervisors, and that every bug that was found or fixed would be an additional per “bug” count extra pay, I guarantee three things would have happened

1) My wallets would be much fatter than what they are now in the short term.
2) innovation would come to a grinding halt
3) 90% of all work would find it’s way overseas in less than 2 years..

BTW: Do you know what the majority of those protestors that hold up the signs are actually protesting? Just curious…

[Coronita]

[quote=eavesdropper][quote=flu][quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=flu][quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

You know, I see these folks holding the sign up all the time, and I was wondering the same thing… I’m still waiting for the sign that says “Shame on Flu…Labor dispute”…..[/quote]

I never watched that daily show clip, until now. I guess I am not the only one with these thoughts!!![/quote]

To add to this, I find it these “shame on xyz” things ironically hysterical….

I mean, I have this anti-union sort of bias that I think of the stereotype image of a bunch of union workers sitting on their asses all day doing nothing and complaining….

Except these “shame on xyz” things take it completely to the next level.. I mean, are we so fvkcing lazy now, we don’t even want to do our own sit-ins/protests, but rather outsource our protests to someone else that costs 1/10 the price????

Now THAT’S FUNNY..[/quote]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, flu. I want YOUR job: y’know, the one that gives me enough time to watch The Daily Show.

Seriously, this pisses me off on a number of levels. Number one, once again I’m counting on the Daily Show for anything resembling actual news reporting. Never before in our nation’s history have there been so many “news” station and outlets, but the only stuff I’m getting from them is Sarah Palin’s latest Twitter feeds, and breaking news of Lindsay Lohan’s latest parole violation.

#2. Hiring people who are not members of the union to protest WalMart’s treatment of the union members??? Seriously, these people need to remove the “U” from UFCW. They violate the memories of tens of thousands who died, and millions more whose families sat through extended strikes, just to get basic human rights from employers 100 years ago. You want better pay and benefits and treatment? Get out there yourself and demand them!

#3. Then there’s the pay issue. Minimum wage is okay when it’s for workers who are out demanding YOUR right to higher than minimum pay. What the hell has happened to people in America that they can no longer see the disconnect. You know who I’m talking about: the nondisabled ultraconservative who’s pulling in $2K/month in SSI payments screaming that the government has to stop entitlement programs. The same people getting government-sponsored healthcare and cash benefits for their “disabled” children who are protesting government-sponsored healthcare for other people’s children. Union members receiving $50 or $60 an hour, protesting the government raising minimum wage for other Americans. And it goes on and on. We’ve become totally egocentric: I’ve got mine, but I’m going to keep you from getting yours. These people aren’t worried about the level of the debt in this country, or that their children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it (BTW, that is a phrase that I am really sick and tired of hearing. My grandchildren are, in all likelihood, going to be concerned with getting enough food and water for their families’ survival, thanks to the future effects of climate change. They’re going to be walking away from those government debts, just like we’re walking away from our underwater homes now). Americans today are simply worried about having more than their neighbors and friends.

I guess it’s possible that they simply don’t see the disconnect, the hypocrisy…and that possibility frightens me even more. Are we incapable of the minimal critical thinking it takes to put ourselves in the other guy’s shoes for a minute so that we can evaluate the effects of policy changes that we are demanding?[/quote]

Um let me respond when I have more time. But I’ll say this

1) You wouldn’t want my job. Chances are you wouldn’t be able to hack it…. (no offense)..

2) I’ve been fortunate enough to have those folks that hold up the labor dispute signs up several times in front of some of the offices I visited. And I’ve always was curious what the deal was…The funny thing is that about 8 times out of 10, when I tried to talk to those folks with those signs, none of them new what they were picketing about..I won’t even go into the direction as to which language I had to use to try to carry a conversation, because that would be heresy to discuss…..So…. That goes back to my original point…Obviously, someone was hired to sit in and picket…Frankly, I’m all for workers rights and all, but let’s face it unions have overstepped their powers…There’s a huge disconnect between maltreatment of workers and what the gist of original unions stood for and what it currently is right now.. The later is borderline legalized extortion….When there are rules to move a computer or 2 boxes by “union workers” only, and it takes two weeks to have the job done…..something is seriously wrong….It’s completely illogical.

And spare me the argument about being outsourced if unions weren’t around. I deal with the threat of outsourcing every day. And I can tell you that if software code could only be written by rules that it takes each person could only write 200 lines of code per hour without being paid overtime and that it takes a minimum of 10 people to write 10000 lines, with 4 shift supervisors, and that every bug that was found or fixed would be an additional per “bug” count extra pay, I guarantee three things would have happened

1) My wallets would be much fatter than what they are now in the short term.
2) innovation would come to a grinding halt
3) 90% of all work would find it’s way overseas in less than 2 years..

BTW: Do you know what the majority of those protestors that hold up the signs are actually protesting? Just curious…

[Author]

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