ot; trayvon martin

[SK in CV]

[quote=UCGal][quote=mike92104]i too think Zimmerman profiled Martin, but not racially. I think any young man wandering around the neighborhood in the rain at 2am is odd and suspicious.[/quote]
How about a young man walking home from 7/11 at 7pm. (not 2am).
That’s the actual timeline.[/quote]

yeah, but he was dressed like a thug, wearing a hoodie and stuff.

[paramount]

Obama enters the discussion, no doubt in part to deflect attention from Benghazi and other issues.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=Jazzman]Don’t confront people bigger than you especially if you think they may have criminal intent. That’s what the police are for. Then you won’t need to carry a firearm. Look where it leads.[/quote]

Maybe the lesson, based on the state of affairs is to follow the NRA’s advice and get a gun. If someone follows you, shoot first because you fear for your life. If you look smaller and less threatening, you can get off.

Women can get rid of their husbands by claiming self defense. I can think of any number of scenarios where people could get away with murder.

[mike92104]

[quote=UCGal][quote=mike92104]i too think Zimmerman profiled Martin, but not racially. I think any young man wandering around the neighborhood in the rain at 2am is odd and suspicious.[/quote]
How about a young man walking home from 7/11 at 7pm. (not 2am).
That’s the actual timeline.[/quote] You’re right, I had my facts wrong. At that point it would be a matter of Trayvon’s actions, and it’s hard to know exactly what Zimmerman saw, or felt was suspicious.

[paramount]

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Well, if those are the only options.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=paramount]Obama enters the discussion, no doubt in part to deflect attention from Benghazi and other issues.[/quote]

Paramount: While I don’t disagree that Obama & Co. are undoubtedly welcoming this as a distraction, I will personally say that I found his remarks very sincere and made in the spirit of unity.

Given the off-the-cuff nature of the remarks, it was even more impressive. I don’t have much love for the man, especially due to his policies, but he was a national leader in that speech.

[CardiffBaseball]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=paramount]Obama enters the discussion, no doubt in part to deflect attention from Benghazi and other issues.[/quote]

Paramount: While I don’t disagree that Obama & Co. are undoubtedly welcoming this as a distraction, I will personally say that I found his remarks very sincere and made in the spirit of unity.

Given the off-the-cuff nature of the remarks, it was even more impressive. I don’t have much love for the man, especially due to his policies, but he was a national leader in that speech.[/quote]

I agree with this basically.
– He was very careful not to stake out a position with regard to the trial outcome while appearing to at least sympathize with family and show that he wasn’t pleased with the outcome.
– In a gentile way perhaps it was probably a big heads-up to the folks still race-baiting that there is no way the DOJ can bring a Civil Rights lawsuit against Zimmerman. It’s been show over and over the guy isn’t a racist and no sense wasting everyone’s time yet again.

I might have preferred him to mention more about this being a nation of laws, having our day in court, etc. But he didn’t.

That said there is a lot of mumbling out there about this weekend, if there does happen to be some smash and grab violence/vandalism he might be asked why he didn’t say more.

As far as the stuff on profiling, I find it’s somewhat idiotic for him to mention that, but I also understand he’s got to show some street-cred here. Cardiff understands the way the game is played, and right now I am content to give him a pass on this. I think he did enough to say “brothers I am with you in spirit” while at the same time tipping his hat, that this is probably over at the Federal level.

[FlyerInHi]

I was really surprised at the positive comments about Obama from all sides. I thought there might be more haterz out there.

Obama is right that it’s better with each successive generation. That we can feel good about. I try to keep up and with the younger generations so i have to embrace words such as “haterz.”

We will see what the weekend commentators have to say.

[SK in CV]

[quote=CardiffBaseball]
As far as the stuff on profiling, I find it’s somewhat idiotic for him to mention that, but I also understand he’s got to show some street-cred here. Cardiff understands the way the game is played, and right now I am content to give him a pass on this. I think he did enough to say “brothers I am with you in spirit” while at the same time tipping his hat, that this is probably over at the Federal level.[/quote]

I don’t think it was idiotic at all. I think it was essential for those who haven’t experienced it to understand the context of the reaction of the black community to the Martin killing. It happens every day in this country, probably thousands of times. Black men are stopped by police and others under the color of authority solely because they are black. Purses get clutched a little tighter, car doors get locked when a black man walks by. It happens in Florida, it happens in NYC, it happens in Carmel Valley. It’s overt racism, and it’s demeaning, demoralizing and insulting.

[zk]

[quote=SK in CV] It happens every day in this country, probably thousands of times. Black men are stopped by police and others under the color of authority solely because they are black. Purses get clutched a little tighter, car doors get locked when a black man walks by. It happens in Florida, it happens in NYC, it happens in Carmel Valley. It’s overt racism, and it’s demeaning, demoralizing and insulting.[/quote]

SK, let’s say you live in a country where 99.9% of the people are race A and 0.1% are race B. And 99.9% of the criminals are race B and 0.1% are race A. And you live in a part of town where there are a hundred thousand residents, but there aren’t more than 2 or 3 residents who are of race B. You’re watching your children play in the culdesac where you live from the upstairs window of your house. A man of race B walks into the culdesac. Are you more anxious about that than if a man of race A walks into the culdesac?

If so, according to your post above, then you’re an “overt” racist. Because the only difference between the hypothetical world above and our world is the size of the numbers.

If not, then you are, I would venture to say, lacking common sense.

I agree with CA Renter and Martin Luther King and all the others who say that if black people want to stop being profiled, they should stop committing crimes at the rate they do.

[SK in CV]

[quote=zk]

SK, let’s say you live in a country where 99.9% of the people are race A and 0.1% are race B. And 99.9% of the criminals are race B and 0.1% are race A. And you live in a part of town where there are a hundred thousand residents, but there aren’t more than 2 or 3 residents who are of race B. You’re watching your children play in the culdesac where you live from the upstairs window of your house. A man of race B walks into the culdesac. Are you more anxious about that than if a man of race A walks into the culdesac?

[/quote]

Except that’s not the country we live in. Roughly 15% of the population has black skin. The vast majority of them are not criminals.

When I lived in Carmel Valley, I lived on that cul de sac. There weren’t any black families living on the street while I lived there, but there were some in the neighborhood. One of them played in my son’s band. They practiced in my music room for about 6 years. By the time they all got their driver’s licenses, my driveway was filled with cars every weekend. Despite the horrible sound coming from my house, the neighbors were very nice, none of them ever complained. But twice the police showed up. Both times following a suspicious black kid driving through the neighborhood. Both times they questioned him for 10 or 15 minutes about what he was doing in the neighborhood in which he lived. Never happened with any of the white kids, despite the fact that a few of them didn’t live anywhere near our neighborhood.

Now you might claim that the police were just doing their job, investigating suspicious behavior. But the important thing here is not whether you think it was the appropriate thing to do. The important thing, and this is what Obama was talking about, is the effect of these kinds of events on black teenagers and black men. This kid wasn’t doing anything wrong, he was simply living his life exactly the same as his 5 or 6 bandmates were doing. The only difference is that for a black kid, living his life, exactly the same as his white friends is suspicious behavior. Driving down the street is suspicious behavior. And it is in this context that the reaction to the Martin shooting arose.

Neither this kid, nor his parents, who lived right around the corner from me, have any control over what happens in other neighborhoods. They can’t stop the gang activities in other parts of town. And neither should they be targets of law enforcement or community watchdogs because of what happens elsewhere. But they are. So when I hear these BS arguments that black leaders are “making it a racial thing”, my skin crawls. They aren’t “making it a racial thing”. It IS a racial thing. They live with it every single day.

[zk]

[quote=SK in CV]
Except that’s not the country we live in. Roughly 15% of the population has black skin. The vast majority of them are not criminals.
[/quote]

If you lived in the hypothetical would I described, would you “profile” a member of race B?

If you would in that world, but not in ours, then it’s a matter of numbers. How much more likely would a member of race B have to be to commit a crime than a member of race A before you’d “profile” them? And would you expect everybody to draw the line in the same place that you draw it?

[dumbrenter]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=CardiffBaseball]
As far as the stuff on profiling, I find it’s somewhat idiotic for him to mention that, but I also understand he’s got to show some street-cred here. Cardiff understands the way the game is played, and right now I am content to give him a pass on this. I think he did enough to say “brothers I am with you in spirit” while at the same time tipping his hat, that this is probably over at the Federal level.[/quote]

I don’t think it was idiotic at all. I think it was essential for those who haven’t experienced it to understand the context of the reaction of the black community to the Martin killing. It happens every day in this country, probably thousands of times. Black men are stopped by police and others under the color of authority solely because they are black. Purses get clutched a little tighter, car doors get locked when a black man walks by. It happens in Florida, it happens in NYC, it happens in Carmel Valley. It’s overt racism, and it’s demeaning, demoralizing and insulting.[/quote]

Nicely put. Did not vote for this president, but I think the speech was good and he did his bit to present the black perspective and frustrations just as you have done above.

It is demeaning and insulting, no question about that. But is it racism? Or some kind of primeval or tribal self preservation that makes people do that? If we want folks to understand the context, the frustration, may I suggest that calling them racists is not a good way to start?

[scaredyclassic]

more than one perspective can be correct. there can be truth in everyone’s position.

facts are fluid.

[zk]

[quote=dumbrenter] But is it racism? Or some kind of primeval or tribal self preservation that makes people do that?[/quote]

There’s another possibility. Maybe it’s a logical reaction to the fact that black people commit crimes at a much higher rate than white or Asian people.

[Author]

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