ot; trayvon martin

[FlyerInHi]

CAr, you made the same argument Allan made. How the recipients of compensation use the money is irrelevant.

Think of it in terms of workers’ rights. The slaves did work and were not paid. Money is due. The heirs have a claim to that.

As with Germany and the Jews, an imperfect formula can be developed.
People who can document their injuries and losses will get more. Thes others get a set amount.

I’m not saying that reparations will happen. But they undoubtedly are owed.

As with pensions, whether you are owed something doesn’t mean you will get it until you get it, and only if there is money to pay it.

[livinincali]

[quote=FlyerInHi]
Think of it in terms of workers’ rights. The slaves did work and were not paid. Money is due. The heirs have a claim to that.
[/quote]

This is one of the reasons why we have statue of limitations for many types of crime. Both sides of the slavery equation are long gone. The heirs have claims against parties that longer are alive. Do you want to be held responsible for your parent’s debt when they pass away? It’s time for personal responsibility to make a come back in this nation.

[FlyerInHi]

Very valid point , livIn

I wasn”t arguing that repartions should happen or are practical.
But reparations are a very convincing philosophical and legal argument.

In the end, we decide what we want to do based on the resources we have.

I don’t want to and won’t pay if my parents die in debt. Society pays. There are no statutes of limitations to the ills of society. Courts won’t adjudicate but congress can do something. And if congress does nothing? Too bad.

I like those academic subjects because they make me think beyond daily life. Some of us may scoff at academics. But remember the founding founders were the liberal elites of their day.

Beyond the polemics, immediate reparations to blacks would be great economic stimulus, haha

[livinincali]

[quote=FlyerInHi]
Beyond the polemics, immediate reparations to blacks would be great economic stimulus, haha[/quote]

That would depend on where you get the money from. Everything is a balance sheet so in order to give reparations you’d have to take that money from some other group. The question becomes is that other group investing in something more productive or less productive.

Here’s an example. Suppose you would get the money to pay the reparations via removing tax credits for Electric Vehicles. So Tesla would be forced to invest less in production of Tesla cars and fewer manufacturing jobs would be created at Tesla. Suppose then that the people that receive the money go out and buy cheap junk made in China at Walmart. Is that a net economic stimulus for the economy here in the United States. I can make a reasonable argument that that would be a negative for economic progress in the US and a net benefit to China. Is that what we want?

That’s been the problem all along for Bernanke’s stimulus efforts. He can make it cheap to borrow but he can’t make people do productive things with the borrowed money. Almost everybody here would probably borrow $500K at 2% interest if they could but how many would actually do something with the money that produced jobs or economic activity. Most would probably try to grow it in the stock market or buy and rent real estate. How many would put in the hard work to start up a new company and create jobs. At the same time if it cost 10% interest to borrow $500K then people that did choose to borrow would likely be forced to do something innovative and productive with the money. There would be no other way to earn a return otherwise.

When interest rates get really low people borrow to do easy things like speculate in asset prices. Of course that leads to bubbles which eventually blow up.

[FlyerInHi]

Livin, what you describe is holdover economics from the gold standard and fixed exchange rates.

Actually, if there is slack in the economy, more cash in the form of transfer payments is stimulative and not inflationary.

The government doesn’t need to take the money from any group. It prints it. The federal government is not constrained like states and households because it issues the currency.

It’s like issuing more shares. You just dilute the exciting shareholders and that’s where the polemics and jealousies come in. But if you grow the company, all the shareholders will benefit.

The problem with monetary policy is that the Federal reserve needs to work though the financial system. Cash cannot be directly given to those who will spend it.

Bernanke said told congress that we need stimulative fiscal policies. But in a deadlocked congress that can’t happen. And that’s too bad because we are artificially constraining growth.

[CA renter]

FIH, “printed money” does indeed take away from others — the ones who held money before the printing started. You’re taking away their purchasing power which is the same as taking away their money.

[CA renter]

[quote=livinincali][quote=FlyerInHi]
Beyond the polemics, immediate reparations to blacks would be great economic stimulus, haha[/quote]

That would depend on where you get the money from. Everything is a balance sheet so in order to give reparations you’d have to take that money from some other group. The question becomes is that other group investing in something more productive or less productive.

Here’s an example. Suppose you would get the money to pay the reparations via removing tax credits for Electric Vehicles. So Tesla would be forced to invest less in production of Tesla cars and fewer manufacturing jobs would be created at Tesla. Suppose then that the people that receive the money go out and buy cheap junk made in China at Walmart. Is that a net economic stimulus for the economy here in the United States. I can make a reasonable argument that that would be a negative for economic progress in the US and a net benefit to China. Is that what we want?

That’s been the problem all along for Bernanke’s stimulus efforts. He can make it cheap to borrow but he can’t make people do productive things with the borrowed money. Almost everybody here would probably borrow $500K at 2% interest if they could but how many would actually do something with the money that produced jobs or economic activity. Most would probably try to grow it in the stock market or buy and rent real estate. How many would put in the hard work to start up a new company and create jobs. At the same time if it cost 10% interest to borrow $500K then people that did choose to borrow would likely be forced to do something innovative and productive with the money. There would be no other way to earn a return otherwise.

When interest rates get really low people borrow to do easy things like speculate in asset prices. Of course that leads to bubbles which eventually blow up.[/quote]

Great post, livin.

The bolded part is something that far too many people do not get. All “investments” are not equal, which is why I define real “investing” as increasing productive capacity and/or improving existing methods of production and/or the quality of goods sold. Betting on asset price increases/decreases is NOT productive investment.

[scaredyclassic]

maybe just make george bush, slave labor beneficiary, pay and split it among someone who can show direct harm.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/history_lesson/2013/06/george_w_bush_and_slavery_the_president_and_his_father_are_descendants_of.html

native americans get casino shares of differing amts depending on percentage

[SD Realtor]

Warning this is disturbing to watch. I guess it really is not of any importance though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjOnygvEYrE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=SD Realtor]Warning this is disturbing to watch. I guess it really is not of any importance though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjOnygvEYrE%5B/quote%5D

Eh… I have recieved worse that than…

Pretty common these days…

CE

[SD Realtor]

yes it is.

I guess it is a non issue. I wonder if it would have been had it been 3 whites beating a black.

Probably no different.

[SD Realtor]

Maybe if this guy dies, Eric Holder and the Feds will look into it.

Probably not.

I guess stuff like this is pretty common. You know, getting beat until you are in a coma and unresponsive. The guy probably deserved it anyway.

Man in coma after black mob of 50 pummels him

[CardiffBaseball]

Stuff is happening more and more.

The key is if you are in a place with a bunch of teen males you should be automatically suspicious. If I see four white kids on the walking trail by my house, I am watching them closely until we pass, and after. I mean I am polite, and all, say “hey guys, what’s up” it’s just that I am looking the group over to make sure they seem ok. It’s just how I roll right or wrong…

Similarly if there is a group of black teen males you should be even more suspicious because the rate of violent crimes amongst that demographic group is an order of magnitude higher.. You should have a sixth sense not to go walking into crowds like this. Not saying this guy deserved it at all. Just saying I would probably not walk into a big group like that.

[SD Realtor]

Look it is kind of the white elephant in the room. (so to speak)

There is racism in this country. It is ugly, it is bad, and I really wish there was a cure for it. The country has a very very ugly history with slavery.

We had lots and lots of responses to this thread when discussing Trayvon the victim. What happened to him was another sad commentary on the country. I personally cannot feel the same as black people who have experienced racism. I do kno I have experienced anti-Semitism and do almost daily. It is a bad feeling man.

What is most discomforting is that it is almost taboo to talk about whites getting beaten by blacks. I am sure I have already been labelled a racist for doing so. For wondering aloud why this is not addressed by the administration, or by Holder. For wondering why activists like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson turn a blind eye to this. yet Trayvon Martin brought out plenty of formal responses, investigations, etc.

Your response Cardiff is a decent response. Yes take care of yourself, avoid conflict, be aware. Great that works however that doesn’t address the problem. In fact this more of what we have been doing. Turn a blind eye and don’t talk about it.

Yet if a group of whites beat the hell out of a black kid and put him in a coma how big of a media circus would we have?

Now did that happen? Hell yes it happened regularly in the past. How friggin ugly is that? What a piss poor statement that is about white USA in the past. Plenty of that racial history exists today in what America, it is sad. However that same hatred exists, and boils over regularly in black America as well against whites. It pops up in a story or two in the press but it is summarily ignored by the administration. Why? Is the administration racist? No I don’t think that for a minute. Is it because the administration feels it has a responsibility to black America to respond? Perhaps I don’t really know.

It just is unsettling. To even discuss it rationally portrays me in a bad light however I have no clue how to even bring it up to get people to talk about it.

[CardiffBaseball]

I think we can all agree with each passing generation there is less and less blatant racism, today’s kids are far more likely to cross-marry amongst different races, more of them grew up together hanging out etc.

Yet, being at basically ground zero here, of the event, I found myself dumbfounded listening to the black marchers. I mean I really truly just cannot empathize with many of them. When I see a 300+ lb. woman screaming bloody murder at the top of her lungs about “dey huntin’ our kids, dey huntin’ our kids”. I just can’t even have a discussion with her, because I happen to think she’s a f-in moron to think that. How can I possibly begin to have a dialogue with this person, when I have no respect for their point of view, which statistically speaking is absolutely silly.

Another area that I find to show I am lacking empathy, is my general indignation towards those who blew this story up. First the story came down that it was some crazy-ass giant cracker hunting down an teeny angel who was off buying candy. Then we find they doctored the photos to “whiten” GZ up. The we find out the so-called racist stuff he said on the 911 call was doctored by MSNBC. Then we find out Trayvon was actually kicking the shit out of the little chubby brown guy errrrrr….”white hispanic”. and I am not even getting into what items he purchased, the fact that Trayvon wanted to get a little buzz on doesn’t bother me.

In any case my white guilt meter is tapped out at this point and along comes the trial. Any decent defense lawyer wins that case easily, anyone with a two-bit knowledge of law knows it. Yet, despite all that, did Sharpton ever once acknowledge any of the above that might have led to not guilty? (Or Jesse). Not at all, not once. They continue to speak in tones designed to enrage people.

What dialogue can we possibly have?

[Author]

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