OT: Stop The Steal!

[sdrealtor]

Nice attempted political thread jack. I am talking about the economy here not the pandemic which we are all pretty much in agreement on. Back on ignore list you go

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=Coronita]nothing to worry about. I think what is more likely to happen is that more people in the center are fed up with both extremes on both parties and eventually abandon both parties for something in the center future.
[/quote]

+1

[flyer]

+2. As an Independent, I try to believe there will eventually be a middle ground alternative to both ridiculous extremes, but I’m not holding my breath, and that will be my only comment on that topic.

[sdrealtor]

Would love to see a middle ground party formed. Honestly I think it would have to be a very moderate Republican rather than a conservative Democrat to make it work though. Of course I could be wrong

[teaboy]

[quote=Coronita]nothing to worry about. I think what is more likely to happen is that more people in the center are fed up with both extremes on both parties and eventually abandon both parties for something in the center future.[/quote]

Not trying to be dumb here, but what are we all considering as “extremes”?

Republican extremes:
– over deregulation?
– promote gun rights?
– outlaw abortion & promote abstinence?
– deny climate change science & dont address it?
– promote raw capitalism?
– routinely allow outright lies to propagate to their political advantage?
– others?

Democratic extremes:
– over regulation?
– restrict gun rights?
– protect abortion rights, planned parenthood & free love?
– embrace climate change & enact laws to address it?
– promote universal childcare, medicare?
– routinely spin truths to their political advantage?
– others?

I’ve not thought this thru too hard nor have I worded any of it very well. I just threw some words down as a straw man.
It’s not obvious to me and I’m genuinely interested what y’all think, cos if our definition of “extremes” are very different, then surely so are our respective definitions of the political “center.”

tb

[Coronita]

[quote=teaboy][quote=Coronita]nothing to worry about. I think what is more likely to happen is that more people in the center are fed up with both extremes on both parties and eventually abandon both parties for something in the center future.[/quote]

Not trying to be dumb here, but what are we all considering as “extremes”?

Republican extremes:
– over deregulation?
– promote gun rights?
– outlaw abortion & promote abstinence?
– deny climate change science & dont address it?
– promote raw capitalism?
– routinely allow outright lies to propagate to their political advantage?
– others?

Democratic extremes:
– over regulation?
– restrict gun rights?
– protect abortion rights, planned parenthood & free love?
– embrace climate change & enact laws to address it?
– promote universal childcare, medicare?
– routinely spin truths to their political advantage?
– others?

I’ve not thought this thru too hard nor have I worded any of it very well. I just threw some words down as a straw man.
It’s not obvious to me and I’m genuinely interested what y’all think, cos if our definition of “extremes” are very different, then surely so are our respective definitions of the political “center.”

tb[/quote]

I would consider extreme

On the far right:

Attacking a covid a vaccine, against mask, attacking science, instituting a herd mentality to resist the vaccine and taking some precautions. Supporting QANon conspiracy theories, and generally making shit up about covid that isn’t true

On the far left:
AOC/Warren and the likes that love to blame everyone else “rich” for every social injustice. repeatedly beating the “inequality” drum such that every deficiency, shortcoming is always a social inequality “problem”…

If you take away some of this fridgy people, I think what you would be left with would be

1. Some balance of gun rights
2. Woman’s right to choose
3. Some partial social safety net heavily incentivized for people to take some personal responsibility
4. A balanced social policy that addresses some glaring social inequity, not something ad-nausem
5. Some reasonable middle fiscal policy
6. Some in between amount of regulation meant to protect the environment and some amount of regulation meant to protect US businesses.

[zk]

[quote=sdrealtor]Nice attempted political thread jack.
[/quote]

Political thread jack? You’re kidding, right? Whenever you and I get into a discussion lately, you try to get by on bluster and attitude because you have no winning arguments, but to accuse me of a “political thread jack” is a new low in your usage of bluster over content. This entire thread is political. The OP was political. The responses are appropriately political.
[quote=sdrealtor]

I am talking about the economy here not the pandemic [/quote]

The entire thread is about politics. About how worrisome the current political issues are for our future. Political doomsaying.

From the OP:

This general (partisan) direction of Truthiness & losing trust in media institutions worries me more that most ills of the US today, since I have trouble envisioning how it unwinds itself..

You come on this political doomsaying thread and, after I (and others) chimed in on the political doomsaying, you say, “Yup the doomsayers are essentially winless around here.” You don’t give any hint that you’re talking about the economy – here on this thread about political doomsaying where no economic predictions had even been made. Then you accuse me of a political threadjack when I point out, perfectly in line with the original post and with the thread in general, the political doom – specifically doom related to misinformation, as discussed in the OP – that has already happened. By no standard is that a political threadjack. Calling it one is perfectly in line with your tiresome method of bluster over content.

[quote=sdrealtor]
Back on ignore list you go[/quote]

Oh, no! You’re going to ignore me! What shall I ever do without your attention?!

Oh, wait, never mind. If I actually gave a damn, I wouldn’t need to worry. You won’t ignore me. You’re not capable of it.

[The-Shoveler]

You have my vote flu

[scaredyclassic]

1. Some balance of gun rights

certainly should be permitted to bear arms during an insurrection at the Capitol, for instance.

2. Woman’s right to choose

the right to choose MURDER?

3. Some partial social safety net heavily incentivized for people to take some personal responsibility

fair enough. does that include discharge in bankruptcy for student loans?

4. A balanced social policy that addresses some glaring social inequity, not something ad-nausem

huh?

5. Some reasonable middle fiscal policy

Too late. The billionaires won.

6. Some in between amount of regulation meant to protect the environment and some amount of regulation meant to protect US businesses.

Too late; the earth is burning.

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]
1. Some balance of gun rights

certainly should be permitted to bear arms during an insurrection at the Capitol, for instance.
[/quote]

Shouldn’t be that easy for a kid to have access to one.

[quote]

2. Woman’s right to choose

the right to choose MURDER?

[/quote]

Depends on what how late the pregnancy is. Obviously, should not be the first choice of birth control.

[quote]

3. Some partial social safety net heavily incentivized for people to take some personal responsibility

fair enough. does that include discharge in bankruptcy for student loans?

[/quote]
We should look at why students need get into trouble with student loans to begin with. Why is an education at state school so much, especially now some hybrid amount of in person and remote learning can be achieved.

It shouldn’t be that easy to qualify for credit cards and other unsecure debt.

[quote]

4. A balanced social policy that addresses some glaring social inequity, not something ad-nausem

huh?
[/quote]

Anyone who continuously talk about reparations is fringy left. It was the past, stop apologizing for something that happened decades ago. Also, punish the cops that did bad things. Stop lumping all cops into the same category. Throw bad cops in jail.

[quote]

5. Some reasonable middle fiscal policy

Too late. The billionaires won.
[/quote]

Maybe

[quote]

6. Some in between amount of regulation meant to protect the environment and some amount of regulation meant to protect US businesses.

Too late; the earth is burning.[/quote]

We should consider building water pipelines, putting more research into water desalinization, alternative energy, solar farms, etc. States should provide each state what they are capable of.
For example, the water drought and Colorado water shortage is going to far impact states like Arizona, Nevada, than CA because of the way those water rights were negotiated plus CA is on the coast with access to the ocean.

Invest in water desalination tech, let CA be a net export of water.. Arizona/Utah/Nevada with there large swatches of desert land can run large solar farms and export electricity to other states….
the Ca bullet train idea is stupid and total waste of money. CA trades water for electricity with other states. Everyone wins.

The Colorado River water rights is an interesting read. It’s been running a deficit, and it’s going to need to be renegotiated. CA isn’t the biggest loser here:

https://www.hcn.org/articles/opinion-water-shortages-on-the-colorado-river-require-a-reduction-in-demand

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/08/us/colorado-river-water-shortage/

[svelte]

[quote=teaboy]
Republican extremes:
– over deregulation?
[/quote]
This is an oversimplification as you point out riiight here:
[quote=teaboy]
– outlaw abortion
[/quote]
I would add MJ and gay marriage to that list also…
[quote=teaboy]
Democratic extremes:
– over regulation?
[/quote]
This is an oversimplication as you point out riiiight here:
[quote=teaboy]
– protect abortion rights, planned parenthood & free love?
[/quote]

[sdduuuude]

The only way to unwind it is to significantly limit the amount of dollars flowing through the government.

When there is so much money involved, everyone wants control of it and the arguments to prevent the other side from getting control escalate as the dollars increase.

What also increases is the willingness of everyone – from biased media outlets to lobbyists to welfare recipients to corporations – to pay to sway the public to their side.

Also, both sides make deals – I’ll vote to get your stuff funded if you vote for mine. And so government spending only grows. From 10% of your income over poverty in the early 1900s to 60% now, all tax types considered.

Take the money away, regulate only transaction between people and stop trying to regulate society to a specific economic or social outcome. Do that and the people will sort it out without running to the government.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=sdrealtor]Would love to see a middle ground party formed. Honestly I think it would have to be a very moderate Republican rather than a conservative Democrat to make it work though. Of course I could be wrong[/quote]

I’d settle for a Republican that can let go of all the religious baggage. Give up the abortion fight, give up the war on drugs, stop regulating morality if it isn’t directly hurting someone else, and just ignore the gay, transgender thing altogether.

[sdduuuude]

dup

[sdduuuude]

[quote=Coronita]nothing to worry about. I think what is more likely to happen is that more people in the center are fed up with both extremes on both parties and eventually abandon both parties for something in the center future.

it’s already happening to the GOP. The more the crazies take over, the quicker this acceleration will happen.
[/quote]

Ya. That is my hope as well.

[Author]

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