ot. the other perspective

[an]

It’s funny you guys think those poor people are life long republicans. Here’s the 2008 results: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008. And here’s 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012. Majority of poor people voted for Obama. The common thread is, Hope and Change. So, whoever want to win 2020, they just need to have a hope and change slogan.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=flu] . . . And then we can look at all the Asians that actually voted for him and say “what the fuck were you thinking?”

Sometimes the only way people learn, is the hard way.

For whatever fucked up reasons, there are actually people in China that like trump. They think he is not going to meddle in far east politics. China would want that and I am guessing they would want give trade concessions to the us if it meant no meddling in far east politics. Bad news for Taiwan, Japan, Korea, phillipines Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. I think that’s why the phillipines quickly buddies up with China to get on their good side. They know it’s coming.

That island dispute will be resolved…forcefully.

So that’s how the new world order will be split. US on the west, China on the east, and maybe Russia will try to reassert itself in their former Soviet satellites)[/quote]flu, the Asian numbers supporting Trump were likely much more than you thought, especially in CA. I happen to know of an Asian group of ~60 in LA County who flew to PA last week specifically to precinct walk for DJT for a few days.

[Coronita]

The rich non-minority 1% are breathing a sigh of relief. Clearly all the economic ills of the the american middle class is not the non-minority 1%…Clearly, it’s all the colored people’s fault.

Well played, non-minority 1%… Well, played…

Lol…

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=AN]It’s funny you guys think those poor people are life long republicans. Here’s the 2008 results: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008. And here’s 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012. Majority of poor people voted for Obama. The common thread is, Hope and Change. So, whoever want to win 2020, they just need to have a hope and change slogan.[/quote]

AN, trump voters aren’t poor per se. They are stagnant fearful middle class or working class . I’m talking about the ones in the industrial Midwest. It make no sense for them to vote for Trump on policy.

But it makes perfect sense for poor people to vote for Obama on policy. The hope is rational.

The hopey changey même will hit Trump supportes hardest.

[millennial]

[quote=njtosd]

Hmm. The house that I grew up in in the Detroit NW suburbs is now worth (adjusted for inflation) 73% of what it was worth in 1964. I’m not saying that things haven’t improved over the last few years (in fact, in 2009 it was worth about 50% of its 1964 value). But Detroit is a long way (sadly) from pulling itself out of its slide. My guess is your sister is not downtown (or maybe she is?) – last I heard there wasn’t a single chain grocery store within the city limits: http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/22/smallbusiness/detroit_grocery_stores.smb/

Detroit flourished due to the automotive industry. Initially Detroit was nothing – they almost made Calumet the capital, as that was where the big industry, mining, was when Michigan was made a state. The weather sucks – we used to celebrate the one or two sunny weekends in the summer. There is not a lot to pull people in, except cheap rent – especially for those who are looking for art studio space. And the crime rate is legendary – it is currently the 28th most dangerous city in the world by some estimates: http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html

People have been trying to re-envision Detroit since the 70s PR campaign “Say Nice Things About Detroit” – but wishing and hoping doesn’t make it so. I wish things were different, but it has a long way to go.[/quote]

njtosd,

You really need to stop living in the past and move on with the times. I’m not sure where you get your information, but I get mine based on facts and people i know that live close to the source (my sister) who is living through this revitalization of downtown Detroit that I speak of. In fact, I was in downtown Detroit a few months ago to actually see this…how about you; 1980? Just look on Redfin for high rise condos in downtown Detroit.
Here’s one for instance.
https://www.redfin.com/MI/Detroit/1135-Shelby-St-48226/unit-2501/home/98941987

Listen, I think Detroit is moving on from its past and “right-sizing”. It’s probably not going to be >1 Million like at its peak, but the downtown area is vibrant and has a lot going on at night (similar to Chicago) and companies are purposefully moving downtown and encouraging and paying their workers to move…and many Mllennials will and do. This is displayed by housing values outside of Detroit which have remained stagnant. When I asked my sister why she lives downtown she names numerous reasons why she would never leave. She loves that her building has character (1920 historic building made of brick), her city has history, she feels a sense of community (everyone is proud to call Detroit their home), and she only has a 10 minute bike ride to her office at the Rennaissance. I think its very easy for people like you to be ignorant and assume things based on media. Congrats on being part of the herd, meanwhile I’ll go and find opportunities based on research and facts.

BTW, not sure if you know this but Detroit is a very large city in terms of size. Just like any large city, there are parts that are good and parts that are bad. Downtown is the CBD and the part where revitalization is occurring. Not sure how long and how far this revitalization will go, but being from Michigan I am very optimistic about their progress. If you really are from Michigan you should be ashamed.

[millennial]

[quote=harvey]Detroit, the city, is a hopeless wasteland.

Some of the suburban areas like Rochester Hills are quite nice.

Much of the rust belt follows the same pattern – white flight and all that. Detroit seems to represent the extreme of this phenomenon.

LOL, Trump is going to singlehandedly fix this:
http://www.marchandmeffre.com/detroit

Cue the Eminem music…[/quote]

I agree, when I was growing up places like Rochester Hills, Bloomfield Hills, Grosse Pointe, and Farmington were places where people wanted to live. Things have somewhat changed since then. The downtown Detroit area is changing and many Millennials are now moving into renovated high rises downtown to enjoy the history, proximity to work and sense of community. To be honest, at first I was shocked and worried about my sister’s safety when she told me she moved downtown, but after visiting I now understand what the draw is.

[utcsox]

[quote=AN]It’s funny you guys think those poor people are life long republicans. Here’s the 2008 results: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008. And here’s 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012. Majority of poor people voted for Obama. The common thread is, Hope and Change. So, whoever want to win 2020, they just need to have a hope and change slogan.[/quote]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016

Majority of poor people voted for Hillary. What’s your point again?

[an]

[quote=utcsox][quote=AN]It’s funny you guys think those poor people are life long republicans. Here’s the 2008 results: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008. And here’s 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012. Majority of poor people voted for Obama. The common thread is, Hope and Change. So, whoever want to win 2020, they just need to have a hope and change slogan.[/quote]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016

Majority of poor people voted for Hillary. What’s your point again?[/quote]Sorry, I mean uneducated. Same point, if you want to win, have a hope and change message. It worked the last 3 times.

[Coronita]

For a lot of us, this wasn’t about having an ego bruised, it was more about our kids.

Here’s something that happened at school the other day. 5th graders…..

So my kid and her friends were hanging out. One of the friends, a boy, decides to be funny, and makes a joke…

He says “How can you tell Donald Trump was here?”
He points to a retainer wall and says “here’s a wall”….

Now, I know he was just joking around, and probably making fun of Trump more than anything else, so all the kids laugh (even my own kid)….But there was a poor latino classmate that was with the group and she was just mortified, and started to cry. They boy felt bad because he really didn’t mean to hurt anyone, he was just joking around about it. My own kid didn’t understand why her friend reacted that way, and so I explained it to her: some latinos (even though they have citizenship here, and have family members that serve in Camp Pendelton) feel unwelcome in this country. It would be no different that someone looks at you and says, send all the Chinese back to China, to which my daughter says…”but, I was born here….”…to which I say…exactly….. Anyway, the boy didn’t really mean anything and talked to the girl and it was all fine afterwards…And no, no parent were involved in this, as they appeared to work things out themselves, luckily because the boy is(was) a friend….(more on that later).

Trump, might not really build a wall, or ship bus loads of migrant workers home. But the damage is already done. I don’t think the latino girl wants to be friends with the boy anymore too….And so to some extent, a wall has already been built, which I think is a little sad.

[millennial]

[quote=flu]….And so to some extent, a wall has already been built, which I think is a little sad.[/quote]

Great story flu! I agree wholeheartedly. It’s really sad that someone whom kids learn in school to admire, says such hurtful things. Some kids are smart enough to know that the president elect is nothing more than a bully, but others will mimic and intentionally/unintentionally hurt those around them.

[zk]

[quote=njtosd]
There are very few Americans who voted for Clinton who are familiar with all of the issues that you raise.
[/quote]

That’s probably true.

[quote=njtosd]

There are many, many who voted for Clinton because they believe that people who backed Clinton were smarter, cooler and simply better than those who voted for Trump – without reference to issues. To be fair, the Democratic party promoted that position with its party line, celebrities and references to deplorables. (I have many family members who fall into that category – maybe that explains my annoyance. )

[/quote]

I haven’t seen that at all. Most people I know who voted for Hillary voted for her for one of these reasons: 1.They’re democrats and they always vote democrat. 2.They find trump repulsive, what with all of his misogyny, xenophobia, racism, and general douchebaggery. They might not know where he stands on NATO, but they can easily see that he’s a total jackass. 3. (a much smaller number than the first two) They really like Hillary.

And I would think the reasons for the protests are pretty much all about number 2 above.

[quote=njtosd]
But a lot of this argument is about ego –

[/quote]

If by, “this argument” you’re referring to “why people are protesting,” I disagree. I don’t see it. I think they’re protesting because they’re angry and disgusted that we’ve elected a misogynist, racist, xenophobic douchebag as president.

[quote=njtosd]

and I think most elections are driven by emotions not logic.[/quote]

Definitely agree.

[njtosd]

[quote=millennial]

BTW, not sure if you know this but Detroit is a very large city in terms of size. Just like any large city, there are parts that are good and parts that are bad. Downtown is the CBD and the part where revitalization is occurring. Not sure how long and how far this revitalization will go, but being from Michigan I am very optimistic about their progress. If you really are from Michigan you should be ashamed.[/quote]

Huh??? I grew up in the suburbs. My Dad was from Redford. My mom was from Highland Park. She went to McKenzie High (though she wasn’t Catherine Deneuve – ah more proof of my Motor City origins). Why would you have any better idea of the size of Detroit than anyone else? Again – it’s the somewhat ingenuous millennial thing.

The road ahead after bankruptcy is still somewhat unsure: http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/detroit-reborn/2015/11/08/detroit-rising-life-after-bankruptcy/75085252/

In terms of downtown Detroit being like Chicago – after law school I lived in Chicago (Lincoln Park, if you are still doubting – Belden Stratford) for about 7 yrs and there is absolutely NO comparison in terms of well, anything. I’m sorry that’s true but it is true. You’re free to go live in Detroit and do what you want to improve it – but both you and I are here (at least I think you are) and all we can do is be realistic and hope for the best. There’s no shame in that. But there is no point in magical thinking.

[njtosd]

[quote=zk]
If by, “this argument” you’re referring to “why people are protesting,” I disagree. I don’t see it. I think they’re protesting because they’re angry and disgusted that we’ve elected a misogynist, racist, xenophobic douchebag as president.

[quote=njtosd]

and I think most elections are driven by emotions not logic.[/quote]

Definitely agree.[/quote]

I think you and I are saying something of the same thing. To say it in another way, Clinton voters believe that Trump supporters are ok with all of the bad things that you mention and they are unhappy and disgusted that they will be governed by this deplorable person because of the deplorable voters. Or maybe I’m missing something . .

Re: protests – In my mind, one protests illegal actions by the government. Excessive exercise of government power. Excessive taxation. Utility issues. In other words – things that are being done by the government or with government assistance that are unfair and beyond its reasonable exercise of power.

A protest, in my opinion, isn’t a way to express your extreme disappointment or disdain for something. It’s not a method of sharing with the world the depth of your personal unhappiness about, for example, your team losing (or in the case of the 1984 Tigers, winning) a major sporting event. In other words – protesters generally have a result that they desire and can identify. What is the goal of these protests? To overturn the election? That can’t be done and based on current facts shouldn’t be done. So they are snarling traffic and spewing rhetoric for what? To tell the 4 humans in the world who don’t already know it that this was a very contentious election and that the marchers don’t like the outcome? I think that message has pretty much made it’s way around.

[Coronita]

[quote=millennial][quote=flu]….And so to some extent, a wall has already been built, which I think is a little sad.[/quote]

Great story flu! I agree wholeheartedly. It’s really sad that someone whom kids learn in school to admire, says such hurtful things. Some kids are smart enough to know that the president elect is nothing more than a bully, but others will mimic and intentionally/unintentionally hurt those around them.[/quote]

It this particular case, I know the kid that said it. I honestly believe he wasn’t trying to be hurtful. He was really just trying to tell a joke about Trump. Here’s probably smarter and more sophisticated than most kids his grade. But, unfortunately, that poor girl didn’t understand that it was a joke. I think she was taken aback that one of her own now-ex-friend..

[millennial]

[quote=njtosd]
Re: protests – In my mind, one protests illegal actions by the government. Excessive exercise of government power. Excessive taxation. Utility issues. In other words – things that are being done by the government or with government assistance that are unfair and beyond its reasonable exercise of power.

A protest, in my opinion, isn’t a way to express your extreme disappointment or disdain for something. It’s not a method of sharing with the world the depth of your personal unhappiness about, for example, your team losing (or in the case of the 1984 Tigers, winning) a major sporting event. In other words – protesters generally have a result that they desire and can identify. What is the goal of these protests? To overturn the election? That can’t be done and based on current facts shouldn’t be done. So they are snarling traffic and spewing rhetoric for what? To tell the 4 humans in the world who don’t already know it that this was a very contentious election and that the marchers don’t like the outcome? I think that message has pretty much made it’s way around.[/quote]

This is the Merriam Webster Definition which pretty much says your definition is wrong. Nowhere does it say that a protest requires a goal, but simply a public demonstration of disapproval. Are you making your own definitions up again? Sorry for not being able to understand what you mean. It’s probably due to you changing the meanings of words.

Full Definition of protest
1
: a solemn declaration of opinion and usually of dissent: as
a : a sworn declaration that payment of a note or bill has been refused and that all responsible signers or debtors are liable for resulting loss or damage
b : a declaration made especially before or while paying that a tax is illegal and that payment is not voluntary
2
: the act of objecting or a gesture of disapproval ; especially : a usually organized public demonstration of disapproval
3
: a complaint, objection, or display of unwillingness usually to an idea or a course of action
4
: an objection made to an official or a governing body of a sport

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