OT: New grad/profession/school pay….

[Coronita]

Got geeks?

…And yet, you still have the Millnieum generation say

“No, it’s too hard…It’s too boring… I want to “manage” projects from day one and leave the grunt work to someone else….Dime a dozen folks out there and can be outsourced…”…. How do you like them fluff degrees now?

http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/22/pf/college/highest_paying_college_majors/index.htm?hpt=T2

EW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Attending school in California and becoming an engineering major can really pay off for college graduates — by thousands of dollars a year.

According to a report released Thursday from salary-tracker PayScale.com, petroleum engineering majors and graduates of Harvey Mudd College are taking home the biggest paychecks.

While mid-career salaries fell 1.5% overall between 2009 and 2010, engineers, scientists and mathematicians continued to rake in the big bucks, as well as students who graduated from Ivy League schools.

“Our society values something practical — that’s why poetry isn’t popping up on the top of the list,” said Al Lee, director of quantitative analysis at PayScale. “As in the past, engineering and [similar] fields with a strong math component plus a physical world component remain on the top, with lots of money to be made in these fields.”

The data in the report, collected from 999 bachelor degree institutions in the last year, track median starting salaries of employees who graduated in the last five years and median mid-career salaries of graduates with more than 10 years of experience in a given field.

Follow the money: So where are all the lavishly paid engineers bred? According to PayScale.com, it’s Claremont, Calif., where Harvey Mudd alums go on to earn a mid-level salary of around $126,000.

“Harvey Mudd is the nexus of all good places to be in terms of graduate earnings,” said Lee. “Not only do engineering majors make good money and this happens to be a specialized school for engineering, but southern California is an area that tends to have some of the highest wage earners in the country.”

Meanwhile, Dartmouth College, which claimed the title as the school with the highest paid graduates for the past two years, was knocked down the list to number two — tied with Princeton — with its graduates receiving a starting salary of $54,100 and a mid-career salary of $123,000.

Since a large chunk of Dartmouth students typically head into financial services post-college, many graduates felt a blow to their wallets in the last year as financial companies cut back on pay, said Lee.

Harvard, California Institute of Technology, Colgate, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Stanford, Duke and Bucknell rounded out the top ten list of schools with the highest-paid mid-career graduates.

On the other end of the spectrum, if you choose Coker College in South Carolina — the worst-paying school on the list — be prepared for a starting salary of around $28,900 and a mid-level salary of $40,300.

Majors that pay: Topping the list of best-paying degrees this year, petroleum engineers earn a starting salary of $93,000 and a mid-level salary of $157,000.

That’s $49,000 more than the next most lucrative majors, aerospace engineering and chemical engineering, which both produce graduates earning a salary of around $108,000.

“Petroleum engineering has been an incredibly profitable sector for the last few years,” said Lee. “It’s a very cyclical field and depends largely on the price of oil, and we’re very much on an up cycle right now.”

Electrical engineering was the third-highest paying major on the list, with mid-level pay of $104,000 per year, followed by nuclear engineering, applied mathematics, biomedical engineering, physics and computer engineering.

But I don’t want to be an engineer! If science and math aren’t your thing, don’t worry. There are plenty of other majors — many you wouldn’t expect — that will put you on the money-making track.

“People always think they have to be an engineer if they want to make good money down the line, but there are a lot of other majors that will help you find good careers with salaries that anyone would be comfortable living on,” said Lee.

A building construction major typically leads to a mid-career salary of more than $94,000, while mid-level government majors earn $87,300 on average. International relations, supply chain management and urban planning also boast average salaries of more than $80,000 a year.

Even majors like film production and zoology can help you land a good-paying job. While film-makers earn a starting salary of only $36,100 and recently-graduated zoology majors tend to make about $34,600, mid-level salaries come in at about $77,800 and $68,800, respectively. To top of page

[Coronita]

Slightly related….

“Outsourcing” just got more expensive..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wipro-profit-up-31-pct-to-apf-793608198.html?x=0

“Executives said wage pressures have been a major headwind. The sector’s quick rebound from the global downturn has forced companies like Wipro, Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services to ramp up hiring and increase wages in a scramble to hold on to staff.”

If in doubt…Just ask QC…and their challenge to meet growth targets….Throwing 10x “outsourced contractors” in one big kitchen with turnover left and right in India isn’t sticking…LOL…

[Coronita]

Slightly related….

“Outsourcing” just got more expensive..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wipro-profit-up-31-pct-to-apf-793608198.html?x=0

“Executives said wage pressures have been a major headwind. The sector’s quick rebound from the global downturn has forced companies like Wipro, Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services to ramp up hiring and increase wages in a scramble to hold on to staff.”

If in doubt…Just ask QC…and their challenge to meet growth targets….Throwing 10x “outsourced contractors” in one big kitchen with turnover left and right in India isn’t sticking…LOL…

[Coronita]

Slightly related….

“Outsourcing” just got more expensive..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wipro-profit-up-31-pct-to-apf-793608198.html?x=0

“Executives said wage pressures have been a major headwind. The sector’s quick rebound from the global downturn has forced companies like Wipro, Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services to ramp up hiring and increase wages in a scramble to hold on to staff.”

If in doubt…Just ask QC…and their challenge to meet growth targets….Throwing 10x “outsourced contractors” in one big kitchen with turnover left and right in India isn’t sticking…LOL…

[Coronita]

Slightly related….

“Outsourcing” just got more expensive..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wipro-profit-up-31-pct-to-apf-793608198.html?x=0

“Executives said wage pressures have been a major headwind. The sector’s quick rebound from the global downturn has forced companies like Wipro, Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services to ramp up hiring and increase wages in a scramble to hold on to staff.”

If in doubt…Just ask QC…and their challenge to meet growth targets….Throwing 10x “outsourced contractors” in one big kitchen with turnover left and right in India isn’t sticking…LOL…

[Coronita]

Slightly related….

“Outsourcing” just got more expensive..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wipro-profit-up-31-pct-to-apf-793608198.html?x=0

“Executives said wage pressures have been a major headwind. The sector’s quick rebound from the global downturn has forced companies like Wipro, Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services to ramp up hiring and increase wages in a scramble to hold on to staff.”

If in doubt…Just ask QC…and their challenge to meet growth targets….Throwing 10x “outsourced contractors” in one big kitchen with turnover left and right in India isn’t sticking…LOL…

[CA renter]

Having grown up in the San Fernando Valley just after the aerospace heyday, my family had a lot of friends in the aerospace industry who got absolutely slammed when everything was shut down. So many of them went from being very successful engineers on high-tech, super-secret projects to…selling Amway (not kidding) or teaching part time at the junior college, etc. for a tiny fraction of what they once made. Many of them had worked decades in the aerospace industry, and had no real options to change careers at that late stage in their lives. It was truly devastating. I guess the “engineering degree = success!” meme doesn’t really sit well with me.

Whenever I hear about ++millions++ of Chinese and Indian kids going into engineering or related fields, I can’t help but think that is the LAST major we should be pushing our kids into. Sounds like it’s going to be a very saturated field in coming years.

A lot of our success in the U.S. comes from having a flexible and diverse workforce. What works today, won’t necessarily work tomorrow. To push all of our kids into a couple of narrow fields sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I think we need to bring vocational tech back to high schools in a big way. We need more people who can **DO** things, rather than just think them up.
———-

Flu,

You can’t blame these kids for wanting to be “the big boss” when they finish school. All their lives, they were told that if they went to school and studied XX, they’d be successful. After many years, lots of work, and lots of money (too much debt?!?), they really believe they deserve to land at the top.

Also, look at what we revere in this country: Wall Streeters who do NOTHING productive are being bailed out with trillions of taxpayer dollars, while unions (productive workers) are being blamed for the mess that Wall Street created! Professional gamblers (traders) and executives are the highest-paid people in our country, and they do very little to benefit society at large. They are behind the dismantling of the middle class in America, and they are being richly rewarded for it!

I think we need to shift our priorites, and teach young people that hard WORK is noble, and that gambers and paper shufflers are a drain on society (and I’ve been a gambler and paper shuffler for most of my life). We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

[CA renter]

Having grown up in the San Fernando Valley just after the aerospace heyday, my family had a lot of friends in the aerospace industry who got absolutely slammed when everything was shut down. So many of them went from being very successful engineers on high-tech, super-secret projects to…selling Amway (not kidding) or teaching part time at the junior college, etc. for a tiny fraction of what they once made. Many of them had worked decades in the aerospace industry, and had no real options to change careers at that late stage in their lives. It was truly devastating. I guess the “engineering degree = success!” meme doesn’t really sit well with me.

Whenever I hear about ++millions++ of Chinese and Indian kids going into engineering or related fields, I can’t help but think that is the LAST major we should be pushing our kids into. Sounds like it’s going to be a very saturated field in coming years.

A lot of our success in the U.S. comes from having a flexible and diverse workforce. What works today, won’t necessarily work tomorrow. To push all of our kids into a couple of narrow fields sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I think we need to bring vocational tech back to high schools in a big way. We need more people who can **DO** things, rather than just think them up.
———-

Flu,

You can’t blame these kids for wanting to be “the big boss” when they finish school. All their lives, they were told that if they went to school and studied XX, they’d be successful. After many years, lots of work, and lots of money (too much debt?!?), they really believe they deserve to land at the top.

Also, look at what we revere in this country: Wall Streeters who do NOTHING productive are being bailed out with trillions of taxpayer dollars, while unions (productive workers) are being blamed for the mess that Wall Street created! Professional gamblers (traders) and executives are the highest-paid people in our country, and they do very little to benefit society at large. They are behind the dismantling of the middle class in America, and they are being richly rewarded for it!

I think we need to shift our priorites, and teach young people that hard WORK is noble, and that gambers and paper shufflers are a drain on society (and I’ve been a gambler and paper shuffler for most of my life). We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

[CA renter]

Having grown up in the San Fernando Valley just after the aerospace heyday, my family had a lot of friends in the aerospace industry who got absolutely slammed when everything was shut down. So many of them went from being very successful engineers on high-tech, super-secret projects to…selling Amway (not kidding) or teaching part time at the junior college, etc. for a tiny fraction of what they once made. Many of them had worked decades in the aerospace industry, and had no real options to change careers at that late stage in their lives. It was truly devastating. I guess the “engineering degree = success!” meme doesn’t really sit well with me.

Whenever I hear about ++millions++ of Chinese and Indian kids going into engineering or related fields, I can’t help but think that is the LAST major we should be pushing our kids into. Sounds like it’s going to be a very saturated field in coming years.

A lot of our success in the U.S. comes from having a flexible and diverse workforce. What works today, won’t necessarily work tomorrow. To push all of our kids into a couple of narrow fields sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I think we need to bring vocational tech back to high schools in a big way. We need more people who can **DO** things, rather than just think them up.
———-

Flu,

You can’t blame these kids for wanting to be “the big boss” when they finish school. All their lives, they were told that if they went to school and studied XX, they’d be successful. After many years, lots of work, and lots of money (too much debt?!?), they really believe they deserve to land at the top.

Also, look at what we revere in this country: Wall Streeters who do NOTHING productive are being bailed out with trillions of taxpayer dollars, while unions (productive workers) are being blamed for the mess that Wall Street created! Professional gamblers (traders) and executives are the highest-paid people in our country, and they do very little to benefit society at large. They are behind the dismantling of the middle class in America, and they are being richly rewarded for it!

I think we need to shift our priorites, and teach young people that hard WORK is noble, and that gambers and paper shufflers are a drain on society (and I’ve been a gambler and paper shuffler for most of my life). We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

[CA renter]

Having grown up in the San Fernando Valley just after the aerospace heyday, my family had a lot of friends in the aerospace industry who got absolutely slammed when everything was shut down. So many of them went from being very successful engineers on high-tech, super-secret projects to…selling Amway (not kidding) or teaching part time at the junior college, etc. for a tiny fraction of what they once made. Many of them had worked decades in the aerospace industry, and had no real options to change careers at that late stage in their lives. It was truly devastating. I guess the “engineering degree = success!” meme doesn’t really sit well with me.

Whenever I hear about ++millions++ of Chinese and Indian kids going into engineering or related fields, I can’t help but think that is the LAST major we should be pushing our kids into. Sounds like it’s going to be a very saturated field in coming years.

A lot of our success in the U.S. comes from having a flexible and diverse workforce. What works today, won’t necessarily work tomorrow. To push all of our kids into a couple of narrow fields sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I think we need to bring vocational tech back to high schools in a big way. We need more people who can **DO** things, rather than just think them up.
———-

Flu,

You can’t blame these kids for wanting to be “the big boss” when they finish school. All their lives, they were told that if they went to school and studied XX, they’d be successful. After many years, lots of work, and lots of money (too much debt?!?), they really believe they deserve to land at the top.

Also, look at what we revere in this country: Wall Streeters who do NOTHING productive are being bailed out with trillions of taxpayer dollars, while unions (productive workers) are being blamed for the mess that Wall Street created! Professional gamblers (traders) and executives are the highest-paid people in our country, and they do very little to benefit society at large. They are behind the dismantling of the middle class in America, and they are being richly rewarded for it!

I think we need to shift our priorites, and teach young people that hard WORK is noble, and that gambers and paper shufflers are a drain on society (and I’ve been a gambler and paper shuffler for most of my life). We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

[CA renter]

Having grown up in the San Fernando Valley just after the aerospace heyday, my family had a lot of friends in the aerospace industry who got absolutely slammed when everything was shut down. So many of them went from being very successful engineers on high-tech, super-secret projects to…selling Amway (not kidding) or teaching part time at the junior college, etc. for a tiny fraction of what they once made. Many of them had worked decades in the aerospace industry, and had no real options to change careers at that late stage in their lives. It was truly devastating. I guess the “engineering degree = success!” meme doesn’t really sit well with me.

Whenever I hear about ++millions++ of Chinese and Indian kids going into engineering or related fields, I can’t help but think that is the LAST major we should be pushing our kids into. Sounds like it’s going to be a very saturated field in coming years.

A lot of our success in the U.S. comes from having a flexible and diverse workforce. What works today, won’t necessarily work tomorrow. To push all of our kids into a couple of narrow fields sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I think we need to bring vocational tech back to high schools in a big way. We need more people who can **DO** things, rather than just think them up.
———-

Flu,

You can’t blame these kids for wanting to be “the big boss” when they finish school. All their lives, they were told that if they went to school and studied XX, they’d be successful. After many years, lots of work, and lots of money (too much debt?!?), they really believe they deserve to land at the top.

Also, look at what we revere in this country: Wall Streeters who do NOTHING productive are being bailed out with trillions of taxpayer dollars, while unions (productive workers) are being blamed for the mess that Wall Street created! Professional gamblers (traders) and executives are the highest-paid people in our country, and they do very little to benefit society at large. They are behind the dismantling of the middle class in America, and they are being richly rewarded for it!

I think we need to shift our priorites, and teach young people that hard WORK is noble, and that gambers and paper shufflers are a drain on society (and I’ve been a gambler and paper shuffler for most of my life). We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter]Having grown up in the San Fernando Valley just after the aerospace heyday, my family had a lot of friends in the aerospace industry who got absolutely slammed when everything was shut down. So many of them went from being very successful engineers on high-tech, super-secret projects to…selling Amway (not kidding) or teaching part time at the junior college, etc. for a tiny fraction of what they once made. Many of them had worked decades in the aerospace industry, and had no real options to change careers at that late stage in their lives. It was truly devastating. I guess the “engineering degree = success!” meme doesn’t really sit well with me.

[/quote]

I think there are two issues here.

1)Generalizing the cyclical nature of Aerospace engineering with engineering in general. Aerospace for one thing depends significantly on government spending. Yes, it’s for profit, but it depends on government budgets. The big aerospace exodus (which my parents both survived) happened in Southern CA dude to shrinking government budgets, NOT outsourcing

2)Regarding

[quote]

Whenever I hear about ++millions++ of Chinese and Indian kids going into engineering or related fields, I can’t help but think that is the LAST major we should be pushing our kids into. Sounds like it’s going to be a very saturated field in coming years.

[/quote]

This is where I have to disagree. I think it’s about time our kids wake up and face reality.This is global competition. It doesn’t really matter WHAT you do…You will have global competition in just about every profession, unless you want to be a government worker (and that arguably can be outsourced). Telling someone that the shouldn’t enter a profession because their is too much competition imho is a step in the wrong direction. They failed even before they tried.
I think of this, as someone once described this to me as, “learned helplessness”.

I don’t know. I think someone grad who invested 4-6 years in school in engineering in 2004/5 versus the equivalent of someone that did a bachelor in “business” would probably be looking pretty peachy right now, since the fear of outsourcing itself is doing a pretty good job creating a vacuum of good candidates domestically. Starting salaries of $80-90k for fresh grads/or folks with 1-2 years of experience isn’t exactly something to blow off these days imho. The problem I think is these millienium generation types want instant gratification, and expect to start making high six figures from day one, which sorry to say, only happens if you are the small percentage that end up on Wall Street…

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter]Having grown up in the San Fernando Valley just after the aerospace heyday, my family had a lot of friends in the aerospace industry who got absolutely slammed when everything was shut down. So many of them went from being very successful engineers on high-tech, super-secret projects to…selling Amway (not kidding) or teaching part time at the junior college, etc. for a tiny fraction of what they once made. Many of them had worked decades in the aerospace industry, and had no real options to change careers at that late stage in their lives. It was truly devastating. I guess the “engineering degree = success!” meme doesn’t really sit well with me.

[/quote]

I think there are two issues here.

1)Generalizing the cyclical nature of Aerospace engineering with engineering in general. Aerospace for one thing depends significantly on government spending. Yes, it’s for profit, but it depends on government budgets. The big aerospace exodus (which my parents both survived) happened in Southern CA dude to shrinking government budgets, NOT outsourcing

2)Regarding

[quote]

Whenever I hear about ++millions++ of Chinese and Indian kids going into engineering or related fields, I can’t help but think that is the LAST major we should be pushing our kids into. Sounds like it’s going to be a very saturated field in coming years.

[/quote]

This is where I have to disagree. I think it’s about time our kids wake up and face reality.This is global competition. It doesn’t really matter WHAT you do…You will have global competition in just about every profession, unless you want to be a government worker (and that arguably can be outsourced). Telling someone that the shouldn’t enter a profession because their is too much competition imho is a step in the wrong direction. They failed even before they tried.
I think of this, as someone once described this to me as, “learned helplessness”.

I don’t know. I think someone grad who invested 4-6 years in school in engineering in 2004/5 versus the equivalent of someone that did a bachelor in “business” would probably be looking pretty peachy right now, since the fear of outsourcing itself is doing a pretty good job creating a vacuum of good candidates domestically. Starting salaries of $80-90k for fresh grads/or folks with 1-2 years of experience isn’t exactly something to blow off these days imho. The problem I think is these millienium generation types want instant gratification, and expect to start making high six figures from day one, which sorry to say, only happens if you are the small percentage that end up on Wall Street…

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter]Having grown up in the San Fernando Valley just after the aerospace heyday, my family had a lot of friends in the aerospace industry who got absolutely slammed when everything was shut down. So many of them went from being very successful engineers on high-tech, super-secret projects to…selling Amway (not kidding) or teaching part time at the junior college, etc. for a tiny fraction of what they once made. Many of them had worked decades in the aerospace industry, and had no real options to change careers at that late stage in their lives. It was truly devastating. I guess the “engineering degree = success!” meme doesn’t really sit well with me.

[/quote]

I think there are two issues here.

1)Generalizing the cyclical nature of Aerospace engineering with engineering in general. Aerospace for one thing depends significantly on government spending. Yes, it’s for profit, but it depends on government budgets. The big aerospace exodus (which my parents both survived) happened in Southern CA dude to shrinking government budgets, NOT outsourcing

2)Regarding

[quote]

Whenever I hear about ++millions++ of Chinese and Indian kids going into engineering or related fields, I can’t help but think that is the LAST major we should be pushing our kids into. Sounds like it’s going to be a very saturated field in coming years.

[/quote]

This is where I have to disagree. I think it’s about time our kids wake up and face reality.This is global competition. It doesn’t really matter WHAT you do…You will have global competition in just about every profession, unless you want to be a government worker (and that arguably can be outsourced). Telling someone that the shouldn’t enter a profession because their is too much competition imho is a step in the wrong direction. They failed even before they tried.
I think of this, as someone once described this to me as, “learned helplessness”.

I don’t know. I think someone grad who invested 4-6 years in school in engineering in 2004/5 versus the equivalent of someone that did a bachelor in “business” would probably be looking pretty peachy right now, since the fear of outsourcing itself is doing a pretty good job creating a vacuum of good candidates domestically. Starting salaries of $80-90k for fresh grads/or folks with 1-2 years of experience isn’t exactly something to blow off these days imho. The problem I think is these millienium generation types want instant gratification, and expect to start making high six figures from day one, which sorry to say, only happens if you are the small percentage that end up on Wall Street…

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter]Having grown up in the San Fernando Valley just after the aerospace heyday, my family had a lot of friends in the aerospace industry who got absolutely slammed when everything was shut down. So many of them went from being very successful engineers on high-tech, super-secret projects to…selling Amway (not kidding) or teaching part time at the junior college, etc. for a tiny fraction of what they once made. Many of them had worked decades in the aerospace industry, and had no real options to change careers at that late stage in their lives. It was truly devastating. I guess the “engineering degree = success!” meme doesn’t really sit well with me.

[/quote]

I think there are two issues here.

1)Generalizing the cyclical nature of Aerospace engineering with engineering in general. Aerospace for one thing depends significantly on government spending. Yes, it’s for profit, but it depends on government budgets. The big aerospace exodus (which my parents both survived) happened in Southern CA dude to shrinking government budgets, NOT outsourcing

2)Regarding

[quote]

Whenever I hear about ++millions++ of Chinese and Indian kids going into engineering or related fields, I can’t help but think that is the LAST major we should be pushing our kids into. Sounds like it’s going to be a very saturated field in coming years.

[/quote]

This is where I have to disagree. I think it’s about time our kids wake up and face reality.This is global competition. It doesn’t really matter WHAT you do…You will have global competition in just about every profession, unless you want to be a government worker (and that arguably can be outsourced). Telling someone that the shouldn’t enter a profession because their is too much competition imho is a step in the wrong direction. They failed even before they tried.
I think of this, as someone once described this to me as, “learned helplessness”.

I don’t know. I think someone grad who invested 4-6 years in school in engineering in 2004/5 versus the equivalent of someone that did a bachelor in “business” would probably be looking pretty peachy right now, since the fear of outsourcing itself is doing a pretty good job creating a vacuum of good candidates domestically. Starting salaries of $80-90k for fresh grads/or folks with 1-2 years of experience isn’t exactly something to blow off these days imho. The problem I think is these millienium generation types want instant gratification, and expect to start making high six figures from day one, which sorry to say, only happens if you are the small percentage that end up on Wall Street…

[Author]

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