OT: California Prison Academy: Better Than a Harvard Degree

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal]Personally – after hearing the stories of my family members, and seeing what it’s done to them… Not enough money in the world to make me work in that environment. I’d rather collect aluminum cans from trash cans. I’d be saner. It’s a tough job.[/quote]

One of my old roommates in L.A. dated a prison guard. It literally drove him crazy, to the point that he shot himself in the head. The stories he told were incredible, and anyone who wants to do it is welcome to do so (then they’d actually have something to base their opinions on). I, for one, would not do it for any price.

Like BG said, it is NOT an easy job to qualify for, nor an easy job to do, contrary to what many of the people who sit behind computers all day like to assert. The turnover is very high, and morale is low, even with this “exhorbitant” pay.

I’d bet the people who are criticizing prison guards’ pay have never had an altercation with a violent and/or insane criminal, much less had to deal with multiple murderers, rapists, child abusers, etc. of the worst kind on a daily basis. That’s why I keep saying, “sign up.” Do it for a year or two, then come back and tell us how easy it is, and how these people should be paid less.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=CA renter]We are overcharged, on a regular basis, by private corporations who engage in monopolistic practices. Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

I have a real issue with watching senior citizens in a supermarket pick up a $1.79 can of (15 oz) Del Monte green beans and ask each other if they should buy it this week or wait until after the 1st of the month. Not even +/- two years ago, this item was 39 to 49 cents!

In my mind, there’s no excuse for this type of “overcharging.” I call it extortion, plain and simple :={

[quote=jstoesz]…People should not be paid according to their value to society, they should be paid according to the benefit and scarcity their work is associated with….If prison guards are paid according to their service and their scarcity of employees then that is appropriate. But according to the figures provided, this is simply not true. We can hope to live in a society where ultimate value is all that is factored, but this is simply not an efficient allocation of resources…[/quote]

jstoesz, LOTS of people THINK that landing a “cushy” job in one of CA’s finest “big houses” will result in being able to feed off of a “gravy train” until they die, thus the HUGE amount of “applicants” for these positions.

HOWEVER, a closer look at these worker’s daily lives reveals otherwise. First of all, they have NO guarantee of where they (and their families, if they have any) will end up after their lengthy POST Academy training and participation in DOC “boot-camp.” Then there is that ubiquitous one-year “probationary period” to endure. Except for one or two installations, all of CA’s finest hotels are located on the cheapest land in the State (read: remote desert outpost). The daily working conditions that these dedicated men and women put up with in comparison to your “relatively clean” job would knock your socks off! The reality is, with all the long hours, intractible “client-behavior,” high-starch prison diet, isolation, heavy responsibilities, damned if they do and damned if they don’t “rules,” more often than not they end up with health problems and stress-related illnesses leading to early-onset disability.

Just over 20 years ago, I applied for a Federal “prison guard” position at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC), located in downtown SD, thinking I would have more upward mobility than my present position. I passed the written examination (close to top of the list), the physical examination, a polygraph and their background examination with flying colors. I was slated to train at an infamous women’s Federal “boot camp” for seven weeks in the State of Georgia contingent upon an intensive “psychological examination” to be held at MCC.

This “psychological exam” was not with a psychiatrist or psychologist but in a windowless room for nearly 3 hours with three uniformed male (over 250 lbs apiece) employees and one female employee. No water or bathroom breaks were offered and I didn’t ask for any. The entire session was devoted to essay questions regarding my keyring on my belt, opening and closing of sliding glass doors and metal doors and conversations with inmates.

First, they relax the candidate by letting them talk about their “family” a little.

Then they use all those family members against you while watching your facial expressions/body language.

Below are examples of questions, repeated in various combinations and “trick” reversals throughout the “interview:”

Prisoner A holds a homemade knife to your throat and tells you that you will be spared if you just let him thru a sliding glass door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

Your shift is 4:00 am to 12:00 pm. Your spouse drops you off to work at 4:00 am with your baby/kid in car and is parked outside. When you arrive on shift, Prisoner B, who has earned a “job” in a privileged area between the last steel door and the outside tells you that he has a contact on the street outside with an automatic weapon who will shoot inside the car you just came out of if you don’t let him pass thru the steel door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

And on and on.

Needless to say, I FAILED the “exam.” My declination letter stated they felt I wasn’t “cut out” for that particular line of work with their agency.

If “thousands of candidates” flood the CA Dept of Corrections (DOC) with their applications, in no way does this mean that they meet all the criteria for and are all qualified for these jobs. There are MANY hoops to jump thru to obtain employment. After hire, there is a one-year probationary period to be served to achieve “permanent status.” Anything and everything can go wrong in between which can and will cause a candidate to fall from the list of eligibles or a hired candidate to be prematurely discharged.

When “push comes to shove,” the average candidate no doubt can’t even get past a credit check or background check.

I salute the men and women that can hang with the “Soledad” or “San Quentin” crowd with a long-term commitment to consummate professionalism and dedication. These jobs are NOT for everyone.[/quote]

You nailed it, BG. This is what I was trying to get across above regarding the number of applicants who would turn out for any “high paying” job in the entertainment industry, or if executive positions were open to the general public, etc.

These public employers cast a wide net intentionally, because they want to attract the best candidates AND because they want to provide opportunities to “minority groups,” who might not normally have access to decent-paying positions.

As for the “scarcity” argument, exactly how many people do you think would show up if the L.A. Lakers advertised 5 openings that were open to anyone who liked to play basketball (or even just open to those who play well)? Just because they show up doesn’t mean they’re qualified, and I’d be willing to bet you’d find more qualified BB players than prison guards in this sort of hiring setting.

BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=CA renter]We are overcharged, on a regular basis, by private corporations who engage in monopolistic practices. Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

I have a real issue with watching senior citizens in a supermarket pick up a $1.79 can of (15 oz) Del Monte green beans and ask each other if they should buy it this week or wait until after the 1st of the month. Not even +/- two years ago, this item was 39 to 49 cents!

In my mind, there’s no excuse for this type of “overcharging.” I call it extortion, plain and simple :={

[quote=jstoesz]…People should not be paid according to their value to society, they should be paid according to the benefit and scarcity their work is associated with….If prison guards are paid according to their service and their scarcity of employees then that is appropriate. But according to the figures provided, this is simply not true. We can hope to live in a society where ultimate value is all that is factored, but this is simply not an efficient allocation of resources…[/quote]

jstoesz, LOTS of people THINK that landing a “cushy” job in one of CA’s finest “big houses” will result in being able to feed off of a “gravy train” until they die, thus the HUGE amount of “applicants” for these positions.

HOWEVER, a closer look at these worker’s daily lives reveals otherwise. First of all, they have NO guarantee of where they (and their families, if they have any) will end up after their lengthy POST Academy training and participation in DOC “boot-camp.” Then there is that ubiquitous one-year “probationary period” to endure. Except for one or two installations, all of CA’s finest hotels are located on the cheapest land in the State (read: remote desert outpost). The daily working conditions that these dedicated men and women put up with in comparison to your “relatively clean” job would knock your socks off! The reality is, with all the long hours, intractible “client-behavior,” high-starch prison diet, isolation, heavy responsibilities, damned if they do and damned if they don’t “rules,” more often than not they end up with health problems and stress-related illnesses leading to early-onset disability.

Just over 20 years ago, I applied for a Federal “prison guard” position at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC), located in downtown SD, thinking I would have more upward mobility than my present position. I passed the written examination (close to top of the list), the physical examination, a polygraph and their background examination with flying colors. I was slated to train at an infamous women’s Federal “boot camp” for seven weeks in the State of Georgia contingent upon an intensive “psychological examination” to be held at MCC.

This “psychological exam” was not with a psychiatrist or psychologist but in a windowless room for nearly 3 hours with three uniformed male (over 250 lbs apiece) employees and one female employee. No water or bathroom breaks were offered and I didn’t ask for any. The entire session was devoted to essay questions regarding my keyring on my belt, opening and closing of sliding glass doors and metal doors and conversations with inmates.

First, they relax the candidate by letting them talk about their “family” a little.

Then they use all those family members against you while watching your facial expressions/body language.

Below are examples of questions, repeated in various combinations and “trick” reversals throughout the “interview:”

Prisoner A holds a homemade knife to your throat and tells you that you will be spared if you just let him thru a sliding glass door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

Your shift is 4:00 am to 12:00 pm. Your spouse drops you off to work at 4:00 am with your baby/kid in car and is parked outside. When you arrive on shift, Prisoner B, who has earned a “job” in a privileged area between the last steel door and the outside tells you that he has a contact on the street outside with an automatic weapon who will shoot inside the car you just came out of if you don’t let him pass thru the steel door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

And on and on.

Needless to say, I FAILED the “exam.” My declination letter stated they felt I wasn’t “cut out” for that particular line of work with their agency.

If “thousands of candidates” flood the CA Dept of Corrections (DOC) with their applications, in no way does this mean that they meet all the criteria for and are all qualified for these jobs. There are MANY hoops to jump thru to obtain employment. After hire, there is a one-year probationary period to be served to achieve “permanent status.” Anything and everything can go wrong in between which can and will cause a candidate to fall from the list of eligibles or a hired candidate to be prematurely discharged.

When “push comes to shove,” the average candidate no doubt can’t even get past a credit check or background check.

I salute the men and women that can hang with the “Soledad” or “San Quentin” crowd with a long-term commitment to consummate professionalism and dedication. These jobs are NOT for everyone.[/quote]

You nailed it, BG. This is what I was trying to get across above regarding the number of applicants who would turn out for any “high paying” job in the entertainment industry, or if executive positions were open to the general public, etc.

These public employers cast a wide net intentionally, because they want to attract the best candidates AND because they want to provide opportunities to “minority groups,” who might not normally have access to decent-paying positions.

As for the “scarcity” argument, exactly how many people do you think would show up if the L.A. Lakers advertised 5 openings that were open to anyone who liked to play basketball (or even just open to those who play well)? Just because they show up doesn’t mean they’re qualified, and I’d be willing to bet you’d find more qualified BB players than prison guards in this sort of hiring setting.

BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=CA renter]We are overcharged, on a regular basis, by private corporations who engage in monopolistic practices. Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

I have a real issue with watching senior citizens in a supermarket pick up a $1.79 can of (15 oz) Del Monte green beans and ask each other if they should buy it this week or wait until after the 1st of the month. Not even +/- two years ago, this item was 39 to 49 cents!

In my mind, there’s no excuse for this type of “overcharging.” I call it extortion, plain and simple :={

[quote=jstoesz]…People should not be paid according to their value to society, they should be paid according to the benefit and scarcity their work is associated with….If prison guards are paid according to their service and their scarcity of employees then that is appropriate. But according to the figures provided, this is simply not true. We can hope to live in a society where ultimate value is all that is factored, but this is simply not an efficient allocation of resources…[/quote]

jstoesz, LOTS of people THINK that landing a “cushy” job in one of CA’s finest “big houses” will result in being able to feed off of a “gravy train” until they die, thus the HUGE amount of “applicants” for these positions.

HOWEVER, a closer look at these worker’s daily lives reveals otherwise. First of all, they have NO guarantee of where they (and their families, if they have any) will end up after their lengthy POST Academy training and participation in DOC “boot-camp.” Then there is that ubiquitous one-year “probationary period” to endure. Except for one or two installations, all of CA’s finest hotels are located on the cheapest land in the State (read: remote desert outpost). The daily working conditions that these dedicated men and women put up with in comparison to your “relatively clean” job would knock your socks off! The reality is, with all the long hours, intractible “client-behavior,” high-starch prison diet, isolation, heavy responsibilities, damned if they do and damned if they don’t “rules,” more often than not they end up with health problems and stress-related illnesses leading to early-onset disability.

Just over 20 years ago, I applied for a Federal “prison guard” position at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC), located in downtown SD, thinking I would have more upward mobility than my present position. I passed the written examination (close to top of the list), the physical examination, a polygraph and their background examination with flying colors. I was slated to train at an infamous women’s Federal “boot camp” for seven weeks in the State of Georgia contingent upon an intensive “psychological examination” to be held at MCC.

This “psychological exam” was not with a psychiatrist or psychologist but in a windowless room for nearly 3 hours with three uniformed male (over 250 lbs apiece) employees and one female employee. No water or bathroom breaks were offered and I didn’t ask for any. The entire session was devoted to essay questions regarding my keyring on my belt, opening and closing of sliding glass doors and metal doors and conversations with inmates.

First, they relax the candidate by letting them talk about their “family” a little.

Then they use all those family members against you while watching your facial expressions/body language.

Below are examples of questions, repeated in various combinations and “trick” reversals throughout the “interview:”

Prisoner A holds a homemade knife to your throat and tells you that you will be spared if you just let him thru a sliding glass door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

Your shift is 4:00 am to 12:00 pm. Your spouse drops you off to work at 4:00 am with your baby/kid in car and is parked outside. When you arrive on shift, Prisoner B, who has earned a “job” in a privileged area between the last steel door and the outside tells you that he has a contact on the street outside with an automatic weapon who will shoot inside the car you just came out of if you don’t let him pass thru the steel door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

And on and on.

Needless to say, I FAILED the “exam.” My declination letter stated they felt I wasn’t “cut out” for that particular line of work with their agency.

If “thousands of candidates” flood the CA Dept of Corrections (DOC) with their applications, in no way does this mean that they meet all the criteria for and are all qualified for these jobs. There are MANY hoops to jump thru to obtain employment. After hire, there is a one-year probationary period to be served to achieve “permanent status.” Anything and everything can go wrong in between which can and will cause a candidate to fall from the list of eligibles or a hired candidate to be prematurely discharged.

When “push comes to shove,” the average candidate no doubt can’t even get past a credit check or background check.

I salute the men and women that can hang with the “Soledad” or “San Quentin” crowd with a long-term commitment to consummate professionalism and dedication. These jobs are NOT for everyone.[/quote]

You nailed it, BG. This is what I was trying to get across above regarding the number of applicants who would turn out for any “high paying” job in the entertainment industry, or if executive positions were open to the general public, etc.

These public employers cast a wide net intentionally, because they want to attract the best candidates AND because they want to provide opportunities to “minority groups,” who might not normally have access to decent-paying positions.

As for the “scarcity” argument, exactly how many people do you think would show up if the L.A. Lakers advertised 5 openings that were open to anyone who liked to play basketball (or even just open to those who play well)? Just because they show up doesn’t mean they’re qualified, and I’d be willing to bet you’d find more qualified BB players than prison guards in this sort of hiring setting.

BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=CA renter]We are overcharged, on a regular basis, by private corporations who engage in monopolistic practices. Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

I have a real issue with watching senior citizens in a supermarket pick up a $1.79 can of (15 oz) Del Monte green beans and ask each other if they should buy it this week or wait until after the 1st of the month. Not even +/- two years ago, this item was 39 to 49 cents!

In my mind, there’s no excuse for this type of “overcharging.” I call it extortion, plain and simple :={

[quote=jstoesz]…People should not be paid according to their value to society, they should be paid according to the benefit and scarcity their work is associated with….If prison guards are paid according to their service and their scarcity of employees then that is appropriate. But according to the figures provided, this is simply not true. We can hope to live in a society where ultimate value is all that is factored, but this is simply not an efficient allocation of resources…[/quote]

jstoesz, LOTS of people THINK that landing a “cushy” job in one of CA’s finest “big houses” will result in being able to feed off of a “gravy train” until they die, thus the HUGE amount of “applicants” for these positions.

HOWEVER, a closer look at these worker’s daily lives reveals otherwise. First of all, they have NO guarantee of where they (and their families, if they have any) will end up after their lengthy POST Academy training and participation in DOC “boot-camp.” Then there is that ubiquitous one-year “probationary period” to endure. Except for one or two installations, all of CA’s finest hotels are located on the cheapest land in the State (read: remote desert outpost). The daily working conditions that these dedicated men and women put up with in comparison to your “relatively clean” job would knock your socks off! The reality is, with all the long hours, intractible “client-behavior,” high-starch prison diet, isolation, heavy responsibilities, damned if they do and damned if they don’t “rules,” more often than not they end up with health problems and stress-related illnesses leading to early-onset disability.

Just over 20 years ago, I applied for a Federal “prison guard” position at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC), located in downtown SD, thinking I would have more upward mobility than my present position. I passed the written examination (close to top of the list), the physical examination, a polygraph and their background examination with flying colors. I was slated to train at an infamous women’s Federal “boot camp” for seven weeks in the State of Georgia contingent upon an intensive “psychological examination” to be held at MCC.

This “psychological exam” was not with a psychiatrist or psychologist but in a windowless room for nearly 3 hours with three uniformed male (over 250 lbs apiece) employees and one female employee. No water or bathroom breaks were offered and I didn’t ask for any. The entire session was devoted to essay questions regarding my keyring on my belt, opening and closing of sliding glass doors and metal doors and conversations with inmates.

First, they relax the candidate by letting them talk about their “family” a little.

Then they use all those family members against you while watching your facial expressions/body language.

Below are examples of questions, repeated in various combinations and “trick” reversals throughout the “interview:”

Prisoner A holds a homemade knife to your throat and tells you that you will be spared if you just let him thru a sliding glass door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

Your shift is 4:00 am to 12:00 pm. Your spouse drops you off to work at 4:00 am with your baby/kid in car and is parked outside. When you arrive on shift, Prisoner B, who has earned a “job” in a privileged area between the last steel door and the outside tells you that he has a contact on the street outside with an automatic weapon who will shoot inside the car you just came out of if you don’t let him pass thru the steel door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

And on and on.

Needless to say, I FAILED the “exam.” My declination letter stated they felt I wasn’t “cut out” for that particular line of work with their agency.

If “thousands of candidates” flood the CA Dept of Corrections (DOC) with their applications, in no way does this mean that they meet all the criteria for and are all qualified for these jobs. There are MANY hoops to jump thru to obtain employment. After hire, there is a one-year probationary period to be served to achieve “permanent status.” Anything and everything can go wrong in between which can and will cause a candidate to fall from the list of eligibles or a hired candidate to be prematurely discharged.

When “push comes to shove,” the average candidate no doubt can’t even get past a credit check or background check.

I salute the men and women that can hang with the “Soledad” or “San Quentin” crowd with a long-term commitment to consummate professionalism and dedication. These jobs are NOT for everyone.[/quote]

You nailed it, BG. This is what I was trying to get across above regarding the number of applicants who would turn out for any “high paying” job in the entertainment industry, or if executive positions were open to the general public, etc.

These public employers cast a wide net intentionally, because they want to attract the best candidates AND because they want to provide opportunities to “minority groups,” who might not normally have access to decent-paying positions.

As for the “scarcity” argument, exactly how many people do you think would show up if the L.A. Lakers advertised 5 openings that were open to anyone who liked to play basketball (or even just open to those who play well)? Just because they show up doesn’t mean they’re qualified, and I’d be willing to bet you’d find more qualified BB players than prison guards in this sort of hiring setting.

BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=CA renter]We are overcharged, on a regular basis, by private corporations who engage in monopolistic practices. Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

I have a real issue with watching senior citizens in a supermarket pick up a $1.79 can of (15 oz) Del Monte green beans and ask each other if they should buy it this week or wait until after the 1st of the month. Not even +/- two years ago, this item was 39 to 49 cents!

In my mind, there’s no excuse for this type of “overcharging.” I call it extortion, plain and simple :={

[quote=jstoesz]…People should not be paid according to their value to society, they should be paid according to the benefit and scarcity their work is associated with….If prison guards are paid according to their service and their scarcity of employees then that is appropriate. But according to the figures provided, this is simply not true. We can hope to live in a society where ultimate value is all that is factored, but this is simply not an efficient allocation of resources…[/quote]

jstoesz, LOTS of people THINK that landing a “cushy” job in one of CA’s finest “big houses” will result in being able to feed off of a “gravy train” until they die, thus the HUGE amount of “applicants” for these positions.

HOWEVER, a closer look at these worker’s daily lives reveals otherwise. First of all, they have NO guarantee of where they (and their families, if they have any) will end up after their lengthy POST Academy training and participation in DOC “boot-camp.” Then there is that ubiquitous one-year “probationary period” to endure. Except for one or two installations, all of CA’s finest hotels are located on the cheapest land in the State (read: remote desert outpost). The daily working conditions that these dedicated men and women put up with in comparison to your “relatively clean” job would knock your socks off! The reality is, with all the long hours, intractible “client-behavior,” high-starch prison diet, isolation, heavy responsibilities, damned if they do and damned if they don’t “rules,” more often than not they end up with health problems and stress-related illnesses leading to early-onset disability.

Just over 20 years ago, I applied for a Federal “prison guard” position at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC), located in downtown SD, thinking I would have more upward mobility than my present position. I passed the written examination (close to top of the list), the physical examination, a polygraph and their background examination with flying colors. I was slated to train at an infamous women’s Federal “boot camp” for seven weeks in the State of Georgia contingent upon an intensive “psychological examination” to be held at MCC.

This “psychological exam” was not with a psychiatrist or psychologist but in a windowless room for nearly 3 hours with three uniformed male (over 250 lbs apiece) employees and one female employee. No water or bathroom breaks were offered and I didn’t ask for any. The entire session was devoted to essay questions regarding my keyring on my belt, opening and closing of sliding glass doors and metal doors and conversations with inmates.

First, they relax the candidate by letting them talk about their “family” a little.

Then they use all those family members against you while watching your facial expressions/body language.

Below are examples of questions, repeated in various combinations and “trick” reversals throughout the “interview:”

Prisoner A holds a homemade knife to your throat and tells you that you will be spared if you just let him thru a sliding glass door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

Your shift is 4:00 am to 12:00 pm. Your spouse drops you off to work at 4:00 am with your baby/kid in car and is parked outside. When you arrive on shift, Prisoner B, who has earned a “job” in a privileged area between the last steel door and the outside tells you that he has a contact on the street outside with an automatic weapon who will shoot inside the car you just came out of if you don’t let him pass thru the steel door. What will you tell him? What will you do? In which order will you do these things in?

And on and on.

Needless to say, I FAILED the “exam.” My declination letter stated they felt I wasn’t “cut out” for that particular line of work with their agency.

If “thousands of candidates” flood the CA Dept of Corrections (DOC) with their applications, in no way does this mean that they meet all the criteria for and are all qualified for these jobs. There are MANY hoops to jump thru to obtain employment. After hire, there is a one-year probationary period to be served to achieve “permanent status.” Anything and everything can go wrong in between which can and will cause a candidate to fall from the list of eligibles or a hired candidate to be prematurely discharged.

When “push comes to shove,” the average candidate no doubt can’t even get past a credit check or background check.

I salute the men and women that can hang with the “Soledad” or “San Quentin” crowd with a long-term commitment to consummate professionalism and dedication. These jobs are NOT for everyone.[/quote]

You nailed it, BG. This is what I was trying to get across above regarding the number of applicants who would turn out for any “high paying” job in the entertainment industry, or if executive positions were open to the general public, etc.

These public employers cast a wide net intentionally, because they want to attract the best candidates AND because they want to provide opportunities to “minority groups,” who might not normally have access to decent-paying positions.

As for the “scarcity” argument, exactly how many people do you think would show up if the L.A. Lakers advertised 5 openings that were open to anyone who liked to play basketball (or even just open to those who play well)? Just because they show up doesn’t mean they’re qualified, and I’d be willing to bet you’d find more qualified BB players than prison guards in this sort of hiring setting.

BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

Utter nonsense. Are you trying to say that you don’t have a choice as to what food to buy, what clothes to wear, what car to drive, where to live, (whether to own or rent), or what entertainment we choose? [/quote]

No, oftentimes, we do NOT have a choice. I don’t get to choose my water provider, or electricity provider. The speculators have driven up commodity prices, so all vendors are affected, and I have to pay the higher prices as a result. I don’t get to choose a “speculator-free” market (you have no idea how much I would love this). Most people have to live where the jobs are, so the speculators (and I include established developers who own vast tracts of land that is not available to regular buyers — and other, private land sellers base their prices on levels that exist because of this hoarding effect) affect housing prices, as do landlords who base their rents according to what other LLs do. We can all pretend we have a choice, but the price differences between one LL and another are very small, for the most part. Just because we get to choose between A or B does not mean we get to choose what price we pay. If it’s not affordable, too bad; those who control the markets get to determine what we pay, and the “capitalists” who control money and inventory are worse than any govt entity, IMHO.

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter] The questions for me are: Who does the most difficult work, and whose jobs yield the greatest benefits to society?[/quote]

You got that half right…well, almost.

It doesn’t matter how difficult the work is. In a child’s world, that’s how the system would work, but it cannot work that way in reality. The economic model you are describing is some form of socialism, but even dumber than what the Soviets attempted.

Are you sure you want to live in a world where there is an incentive to make work harder?

Answer this: If people were paid for the difficulty of their work, then who would invent the bulldozer? After all, ditch digging is harder work than driving a bulldozer, so it would pay better.

Same goes with computers, farming, and just about everything….[/quote]

People would invvent things based on need, and people would invent things that made our lives easier. Some workers have difficult (but necessary and/or useful) jobs, and some workers provide a tremendous benefit to society, even if their jobs are not quite as difficult. Both are important, and both need to be paid well.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

Utter nonsense. Are you trying to say that you don’t have a choice as to what food to buy, what clothes to wear, what car to drive, where to live, (whether to own or rent), or what entertainment we choose? [/quote]

No, oftentimes, we do NOT have a choice. I don’t get to choose my water provider, or electricity provider. The speculators have driven up commodity prices, so all vendors are affected, and I have to pay the higher prices as a result. I don’t get to choose a “speculator-free” market (you have no idea how much I would love this). Most people have to live where the jobs are, so the speculators (and I include established developers who own vast tracts of land that is not available to regular buyers — and other, private land sellers base their prices on levels that exist because of this hoarding effect) affect housing prices, as do landlords who base their rents according to what other LLs do. We can all pretend we have a choice, but the price differences between one LL and another are very small, for the most part. Just because we get to choose between A or B does not mean we get to choose what price we pay. If it’s not affordable, too bad; those who control the markets get to determine what we pay, and the “capitalists” who control money and inventory are worse than any govt entity, IMHO.

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter] The questions for me are: Who does the most difficult work, and whose jobs yield the greatest benefits to society?[/quote]

You got that half right…well, almost.

It doesn’t matter how difficult the work is. In a child’s world, that’s how the system would work, but it cannot work that way in reality. The economic model you are describing is some form of socialism, but even dumber than what the Soviets attempted.

Are you sure you want to live in a world where there is an incentive to make work harder?

Answer this: If people were paid for the difficulty of their work, then who would invent the bulldozer? After all, ditch digging is harder work than driving a bulldozer, so it would pay better.

Same goes with computers, farming, and just about everything….[/quote]

People would invvent things based on need, and people would invent things that made our lives easier. Some workers have difficult (but necessary and/or useful) jobs, and some workers provide a tremendous benefit to society, even if their jobs are not quite as difficult. Both are important, and both need to be paid well.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

Utter nonsense. Are you trying to say that you don’t have a choice as to what food to buy, what clothes to wear, what car to drive, where to live, (whether to own or rent), or what entertainment we choose? [/quote]

No, oftentimes, we do NOT have a choice. I don’t get to choose my water provider, or electricity provider. The speculators have driven up commodity prices, so all vendors are affected, and I have to pay the higher prices as a result. I don’t get to choose a “speculator-free” market (you have no idea how much I would love this). Most people have to live where the jobs are, so the speculators (and I include established developers who own vast tracts of land that is not available to regular buyers — and other, private land sellers base their prices on levels that exist because of this hoarding effect) affect housing prices, as do landlords who base their rents according to what other LLs do. We can all pretend we have a choice, but the price differences between one LL and another are very small, for the most part. Just because we get to choose between A or B does not mean we get to choose what price we pay. If it’s not affordable, too bad; those who control the markets get to determine what we pay, and the “capitalists” who control money and inventory are worse than any govt entity, IMHO.

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter] The questions for me are: Who does the most difficult work, and whose jobs yield the greatest benefits to society?[/quote]

You got that half right…well, almost.

It doesn’t matter how difficult the work is. In a child’s world, that’s how the system would work, but it cannot work that way in reality. The economic model you are describing is some form of socialism, but even dumber than what the Soviets attempted.

Are you sure you want to live in a world where there is an incentive to make work harder?

Answer this: If people were paid for the difficulty of their work, then who would invent the bulldozer? After all, ditch digging is harder work than driving a bulldozer, so it would pay better.

Same goes with computers, farming, and just about everything….[/quote]

People would invvent things based on need, and people would invent things that made our lives easier. Some workers have difficult (but necessary and/or useful) jobs, and some workers provide a tremendous benefit to society, even if their jobs are not quite as difficult. Both are important, and both need to be paid well.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

Utter nonsense. Are you trying to say that you don’t have a choice as to what food to buy, what clothes to wear, what car to drive, where to live, (whether to own or rent), or what entertainment we choose? [/quote]

No, oftentimes, we do NOT have a choice. I don’t get to choose my water provider, or electricity provider. The speculators have driven up commodity prices, so all vendors are affected, and I have to pay the higher prices as a result. I don’t get to choose a “speculator-free” market (you have no idea how much I would love this). Most people have to live where the jobs are, so the speculators (and I include established developers who own vast tracts of land that is not available to regular buyers — and other, private land sellers base their prices on levels that exist because of this hoarding effect) affect housing prices, as do landlords who base their rents according to what other LLs do. We can all pretend we have a choice, but the price differences between one LL and another are very small, for the most part. Just because we get to choose between A or B does not mean we get to choose what price we pay. If it’s not affordable, too bad; those who control the markets get to determine what we pay, and the “capitalists” who control money and inventory are worse than any govt entity, IMHO.

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter] The questions for me are: Who does the most difficult work, and whose jobs yield the greatest benefits to society?[/quote]

You got that half right…well, almost.

It doesn’t matter how difficult the work is. In a child’s world, that’s how the system would work, but it cannot work that way in reality. The economic model you are describing is some form of socialism, but even dumber than what the Soviets attempted.

Are you sure you want to live in a world where there is an incentive to make work harder?

Answer this: If people were paid for the difficulty of their work, then who would invent the bulldozer? After all, ditch digging is harder work than driving a bulldozer, so it would pay better.

Same goes with computers, farming, and just about everything….[/quote]

People would invvent things based on need, and people would invent things that made our lives easier. Some workers have difficult (but necessary and/or useful) jobs, and some workers provide a tremendous benefit to society, even if their jobs are not quite as difficult. Both are important, and both need to be paid well.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]Contrary to what the “capitalists” will tell you, we have very little choice, especially WRT basic needs.[/quote]

Utter nonsense. Are you trying to say that you don’t have a choice as to what food to buy, what clothes to wear, what car to drive, where to live, (whether to own or rent), or what entertainment we choose? [/quote]

No, oftentimes, we do NOT have a choice. I don’t get to choose my water provider, or electricity provider. The speculators have driven up commodity prices, so all vendors are affected, and I have to pay the higher prices as a result. I don’t get to choose a “speculator-free” market (you have no idea how much I would love this). Most people have to live where the jobs are, so the speculators (and I include established developers who own vast tracts of land that is not available to regular buyers — and other, private land sellers base their prices on levels that exist because of this hoarding effect) affect housing prices, as do landlords who base their rents according to what other LLs do. We can all pretend we have a choice, but the price differences between one LL and another are very small, for the most part. Just because we get to choose between A or B does not mean we get to choose what price we pay. If it’s not affordable, too bad; those who control the markets get to determine what we pay, and the “capitalists” who control money and inventory are worse than any govt entity, IMHO.

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter] The questions for me are: Who does the most difficult work, and whose jobs yield the greatest benefits to society?[/quote]

You got that half right…well, almost.

It doesn’t matter how difficult the work is. In a child’s world, that’s how the system would work, but it cannot work that way in reality. The economic model you are describing is some form of socialism, but even dumber than what the Soviets attempted.

Are you sure you want to live in a world where there is an incentive to make work harder?

Answer this: If people were paid for the difficulty of their work, then who would invent the bulldozer? After all, ditch digging is harder work than driving a bulldozer, so it would pay better.

Same goes with computers, farming, and just about everything….[/quote]

People would invvent things based on need, and people would invent things that made our lives easier. Some workers have difficult (but necessary and/or useful) jobs, and some workers provide a tremendous benefit to society, even if their jobs are not quite as difficult. Both are important, and both need to be paid well.

[just someone]

My problem is that I don’t get the outcry about unions.

We pay the highest amount for healthcare. About 30% higher.

We outsource, the average salaries we pay go down. But often the amount we pay does not, aka benefit not realized. When it does go down, it’s on the back of the government, because for the benefits costs drop, but the costs to government in assistance goes up (aka wal mart effect)

Where does the extra money go to? The executives.

Anyone with a government contract or subcontract should be required to PUBLISH their salaries and bonuses, and shareholder dividends to shareholders wgo get more than 10k. I’d like to know who is living off the government.

[just someone]

My problem is that I don’t get the outcry about unions.

We pay the highest amount for healthcare. About 30% higher.

We outsource, the average salaries we pay go down. But often the amount we pay does not, aka benefit not realized. When it does go down, it’s on the back of the government, because for the benefits costs drop, but the costs to government in assistance goes up (aka wal mart effect)

Where does the extra money go to? The executives.

Anyone with a government contract or subcontract should be required to PUBLISH their salaries and bonuses, and shareholder dividends to shareholders wgo get more than 10k. I’d like to know who is living off the government.

[just someone]

My problem is that I don’t get the outcry about unions.

We pay the highest amount for healthcare. About 30% higher.

We outsource, the average salaries we pay go down. But often the amount we pay does not, aka benefit not realized. When it does go down, it’s on the back of the government, because for the benefits costs drop, but the costs to government in assistance goes up (aka wal mart effect)

Where does the extra money go to? The executives.

Anyone with a government contract or subcontract should be required to PUBLISH their salaries and bonuses, and shareholder dividends to shareholders wgo get more than 10k. I’d like to know who is living off the government.

[just someone]

My problem is that I don’t get the outcry about unions.

We pay the highest amount for healthcare. About 30% higher.

We outsource, the average salaries we pay go down. But often the amount we pay does not, aka benefit not realized. When it does go down, it’s on the back of the government, because for the benefits costs drop, but the costs to government in assistance goes up (aka wal mart effect)

Where does the extra money go to? The executives.

Anyone with a government contract or subcontract should be required to PUBLISH their salaries and bonuses, and shareholder dividends to shareholders wgo get more than 10k. I’d like to know who is living off the government.

[Author]

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