OT: California Prison Academy: Better Than a Harvard Degree

[bearishgurl]

[quote=pabloesqobar]Many people fail pre-employment psych exams. My wife (at the time) was worried about it when she was in the hiring process to join the SDPD. She made it thru fine, but many didn’t. There’s a good reason for that.[/quote]

Thank you for clarifying that. Most candidates cannot even GET to the “psych” exam part of the process because they couldn’t score high enough on the written exam, pass the physical exam, pass a strenuous background check, pass a polygraph and pass a credit check, lol! Of course, I passed all of these and was slated for training in GA (for 17 weeks, not 7 weeks as I previously stated). At that time, Public Law cut off the hiring age at 34 years, 10 months for these positions so I was unable to later reapply to a different agency for a similar position. Actually my “psych” interview took place in 1990.

These jobs are open to the public for a long period for a REASON, to garner as many applications as possible. The vast majority of applicants don’t make it to step 2 … or 3. A few Piggs posted that they felt these workers are feeding off some “gravy train.” Of course, they are all free to apply for the job themselves (if they are young enough or have previous POST training). At least you admitted you didn’t “need to.”

This is not the first time you have made insulting remarks to me, pablo. You have in the past come off on here sounding elitest and above reproach. I have a great memory ;=]

[bearishgurl]

[quote=pabloesqobar]Holy shit. I’m pretty sure I was addressing CAR, not you. What part of my post leads you to conclude that I hate women as a gender? . . . [/quote]

[quote=pabloesqobar]As for BG not being able to pass the psych exam, well . . . Big Surprise. Big. HUGE.[/quote]

I’m gratified to see that you’re “flabbergasted” here.

If I had the power to do so now, I’d set you up for your very own “psych” interview with the CDC…just for sh!ts and giggles ;=!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=pabloesqobar]Holy shit. I’m pretty sure I was addressing CAR, not you. What part of my post leads you to conclude that I hate women as a gender? . . . [/quote]

[quote=pabloesqobar]As for BG not being able to pass the psych exam, well . . . Big Surprise. Big. HUGE.[/quote]

I’m gratified to see that you’re “flabbergasted” here.

If I had the power to do so now, I’d set you up for your very own “psych” interview with the CDC…just for sh!ts and giggles ;=!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=pabloesqobar]Holy shit. I’m pretty sure I was addressing CAR, not you. What part of my post leads you to conclude that I hate women as a gender? . . . [/quote]

[quote=pabloesqobar]As for BG not being able to pass the psych exam, well . . . Big Surprise. Big. HUGE.[/quote]

I’m gratified to see that you’re “flabbergasted” here.

If I had the power to do so now, I’d set you up for your very own “psych” interview with the CDC…just for sh!ts and giggles ;=!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=pabloesqobar]Holy shit. I’m pretty sure I was addressing CAR, not you. What part of my post leads you to conclude that I hate women as a gender? . . . [/quote]

[quote=pabloesqobar]As for BG not being able to pass the psych exam, well . . . Big Surprise. Big. HUGE.[/quote]

I’m gratified to see that you’re “flabbergasted” here.

If I had the power to do so now, I’d set you up for your very own “psych” interview with the CDC…just for sh!ts and giggles ;=!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=pabloesqobar]Holy shit. I’m pretty sure I was addressing CAR, not you. What part of my post leads you to conclude that I hate women as a gender? . . . [/quote]

[quote=pabloesqobar]As for BG not being able to pass the psych exam, well . . . Big Surprise. Big. HUGE.[/quote]

I’m gratified to see that you’re “flabbergasted” here.

If I had the power to do so now, I’d set you up for your very own “psych” interview with the CDC…just for sh!ts and giggles ;=!

[CA renter]

[quote=Shadowfax][quote=CA renter]BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.[/quote]

And many of the products we buy come from a consortium of companies owned by one or a small number of mega-corporations. Does anyone remember the Beatrice adds, where virtually every product imaginable is flashed on screen with the nice lady’s voice repeating “Beatrice.” Anti-trust doesn’t seem to appy. P&G owns a ton of brands at the grocery store, so while the array of goods is mind-boggling (most being things that people don’t really need) there are only a handful of owners of those brands and the decisions they make are hard to avoid (see thread on “Whole Foods”). So choices are limited in that regard.[/quote]

Exactly right, Shadowfax.

[CA renter]

[quote=Shadowfax][quote=CA renter]BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.[/quote]

And many of the products we buy come from a consortium of companies owned by one or a small number of mega-corporations. Does anyone remember the Beatrice adds, where virtually every product imaginable is flashed on screen with the nice lady’s voice repeating “Beatrice.” Anti-trust doesn’t seem to appy. P&G owns a ton of brands at the grocery store, so while the array of goods is mind-boggling (most being things that people don’t really need) there are only a handful of owners of those brands and the decisions they make are hard to avoid (see thread on “Whole Foods”). So choices are limited in that regard.[/quote]

Exactly right, Shadowfax.

[CA renter]

[quote=Shadowfax][quote=CA renter]BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.[/quote]

And many of the products we buy come from a consortium of companies owned by one or a small number of mega-corporations. Does anyone remember the Beatrice adds, where virtually every product imaginable is flashed on screen with the nice lady’s voice repeating “Beatrice.” Anti-trust doesn’t seem to appy. P&G owns a ton of brands at the grocery store, so while the array of goods is mind-boggling (most being things that people don’t really need) there are only a handful of owners of those brands and the decisions they make are hard to avoid (see thread on “Whole Foods”). So choices are limited in that regard.[/quote]

Exactly right, Shadowfax.

[CA renter]

[quote=Shadowfax][quote=CA renter]BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.[/quote]

And many of the products we buy come from a consortium of companies owned by one or a small number of mega-corporations. Does anyone remember the Beatrice adds, where virtually every product imaginable is flashed on screen with the nice lady’s voice repeating “Beatrice.” Anti-trust doesn’t seem to appy. P&G owns a ton of brands at the grocery store, so while the array of goods is mind-boggling (most being things that people don’t really need) there are only a handful of owners of those brands and the decisions they make are hard to avoid (see thread on “Whole Foods”). So choices are limited in that regard.[/quote]

Exactly right, Shadowfax.

[CA renter]

[quote=Shadowfax][quote=CA renter]BTW, don’t think for a moment that basketball fans are the ones paying the bloated salaries of these athletes (and entertainers of any kind). It’s the consumers who buy the products that are being advertised during the games, and those who buy the products being advertised by the athletes, themselves. If athletes (and everyone in the entertainment industry) were dependent only on fans who bought their tickets or who paid for exclusive channels, they would make a tiny fraction of what they do under the current model. And don’t say we have a choice to not buy the advertised products. I’ve actually tried to list all the advertisers during games, to see how easy it would be to avoid them, and it would be almost impossible. Try it sometime.[/quote]

And many of the products we buy come from a consortium of companies owned by one or a small number of mega-corporations. Does anyone remember the Beatrice adds, where virtually every product imaginable is flashed on screen with the nice lady’s voice repeating “Beatrice.” Anti-trust doesn’t seem to appy. P&G owns a ton of brands at the grocery store, so while the array of goods is mind-boggling (most being things that people don’t really need) there are only a handful of owners of those brands and the decisions they make are hard to avoid (see thread on “Whole Foods”). So choices are limited in that regard.[/quote]

Exactly right, Shadowfax.

[CA renter]

[quote=pabloesqobar][quote=CA renter]
One of my old roommates in L.A. dated a prison guard. It literally drove him crazy, to the point that he shot himself in the head. The stories he told were incredible, and anyone who wants to do it is welcome to do so (then they’d actually have something to base their opinions on). I, for one, would not do it for any price.

Like BG said, it is NOT an easy job to qualify for, nor an easy job to do, contrary to what many of the people who sit behind computers all day like to assert. The turnover is very high, and morale is low, even with this “exhorbitant” pay.

I’d bet the people who are criticizing prison guards’ pay have never had an altercation with a violent and/or insane criminal, much less had to deal with multiple murderers, rapists, child abusers, etc. of the worst kind on a daily basis. That’s why I keep saying, “sign up.” Do it for a year or two, then come back and tell us how easy it is, and how these people should be paid less.[/quote]

That’s cool you don’t want to do it. I’m at a point where I don’t want to either. No need to.

That’s the first time I’ve heard of a prison guard committing suicide solely because of the pressures/stress from the job. People from all walks of life and careers commit suicide. I hear that being a famous actor/comedian is pretty stressful too judging by the suicide rate.

Contrary to what you or BG think, many of those prison guards also sit behind a computer for most of their shift. The turnover is not that high and the morale is no lower than any other field of work.

The “altercation” you’re referring to with a murderer/rapist/abuser, etc. is not what you think it is. These criminals are not so tough when they are locked into a facility wearing PJ’s and ready to get thumped any time they fall out of line. And it’s not one unarmed guard going up against a big bad criminal. It’s 15 armed guards going up against one unarmed moron. Pretty easy job. And for many of the ones that take that job, they do it because they find it to be fun. And financially rewarding.

As for BG not being able to pass the psych exam, well . . . Big Surprise. Big. HUGE.

And, to repeat, to keep beating the drum of “do it yourself, or you’ve waived the right to complain” is nonsensical. It surprises me you keep making that argument, as I assumed you were more thoughtful and reasoned.[/quote]

Regarding the suicide…he was stabbed by prisoners (not sure of the number, as I believe there were multiple prisoners involved…so much for your theory that they all turn into pussycats when they enter jail, or that there are 15 guards any time they have to deal with a criminal — that’s totally untrue), and I believe there was some type of sexual assault or an attempted assault on him when they had him — he never spoke about the sexual assault explicitly, and it’s conjecture on my part, but it was obvious that something went very wrong during this altercation, in addition to “just” being stabbed.

After this incident, he basically lost it. He had such a seething, passionate hatred of criminals after that, that it became an issue on the job. There was some sort of administrative punishment because of the way he acted toward the inmates after that (he might have been in the process of being fired, but I can’t remember the exact details), and he had so much hate inside, that he essentially lost his mind. He thought the criminals destroyed his life by hurting him and, because of the problems on the job that arose as a result of the incident, he didn’t want to live anymore. He worked so hard to get that job, and took great pride in what he did, so when things took a turn for the worse, there was nothing left for him, in his mind.

As to your assertion that turnover is low among prison guards, the facts don’t seem to bear that out:

Nearly 1 in 4 U.S. prison guards quit or are fired each year, a likely consequence of stresses created by low-paid work with often violent or mentally ill inmates in crowded jails, prison experts said Friday.

While high turnover among guards is not new, two recent prison escapes, in Texas and Alabama, put the spotlight on conditions inside the nation’s correctional facilities and the dangers that arise when prison jobs go unfilled.

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/03/news/mn-20687

………………

High turnover among prison guards has long been noted as a problem plaguing corrections. This study indicates that turnover among rank and file employees results from organizational and cultural strains within the formal organization. A sample survey of 55 former prison guards indicates that the most significant variable in explaining the termination of their prison work is race. Young urban black guards tend to find themselves in conflict with the top echelon in the custodial force while the white recruits have difficulty normalizing relations with the minority inmates.

http://cjr.sagepub.com/content/2/2/57.short

………………

Prison guard cuts could come through attrition
If the Legislature orders TDCJ to reduce the number of correctional officers and close prisons, the cuts could probably be managed effectively through attrition with few actual layoffs, according to a report (not online) I received in an open records request from TDCJ called “FY 2010 Agency Turnover by Title.” That document shows the number of COs remaining steady a little more than 28,000 over the last fiscal year, but with 5,724 CO “separations” from the agency in just one year, or 20.31% of their prison guard workforce. The turnover rate for a CO 1, or an entry level guard slot, was a whopping 59%.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2011/03/prison-guard-cuts-could-come-through.html

In Texas:

Annual turnover rate is 90% in TDCJ’s private prisons
Mon, 05/04/2009 – 12:51pm — nick
Amongst the interesting statistics in the Texas Senate Criminal Justice Committee’s interim report on private prisons (PDF), was the shocking statistic that TDCJ-contracted private prisons have a 90% annual staff turnover rate. The report also presented numbers on differences in guard pay between public and private facilities.

“The wages and benefits paid to employees of private contractors are generally lower than that paid to employees of state-operated facilities… Correctional officer salaries in the private prisons vary among facilities, with the highest peaking at slightly more than $24,000 annually.”

For comparison to this figure, TDCJ Director Brad Livingston told the Austin American Statesman (“Big raises sought for prison workers,” August 14) that starting pay for correctional officers in public facilities is $26,016, and the maximum salaries range from $34,624 to $42,242. This means the lowest-paid TDCJ guard’s annual salary is $2,000 more than the highest-paid guard at TDCJ-contracted private prisons.

This probably contributes to the high turnover at private facilities noted in the report:

During FY 2008 the correctional officer turnover rate at the seven private prisons was 90 percent (60 percent for the five privately-operated state jails), which in either case is higher than the 24 percent turnover rate for TDCJ correctional officers during FY 2008.

It’s hard to understand how ANY organization can operate with 90% staff turnover.

http://www.texasprisonbidness.org/tdcj/annual-turnover-rate-90-tdcjs-private-prisons
———————————-

Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!

Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!

Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”

The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it!

[CA renter]

[quote=pabloesqobar][quote=CA renter]
One of my old roommates in L.A. dated a prison guard. It literally drove him crazy, to the point that he shot himself in the head. The stories he told were incredible, and anyone who wants to do it is welcome to do so (then they’d actually have something to base their opinions on). I, for one, would not do it for any price.

Like BG said, it is NOT an easy job to qualify for, nor an easy job to do, contrary to what many of the people who sit behind computers all day like to assert. The turnover is very high, and morale is low, even with this “exhorbitant” pay.

I’d bet the people who are criticizing prison guards’ pay have never had an altercation with a violent and/or insane criminal, much less had to deal with multiple murderers, rapists, child abusers, etc. of the worst kind on a daily basis. That’s why I keep saying, “sign up.” Do it for a year or two, then come back and tell us how easy it is, and how these people should be paid less.[/quote]

That’s cool you don’t want to do it. I’m at a point where I don’t want to either. No need to.

That’s the first time I’ve heard of a prison guard committing suicide solely because of the pressures/stress from the job. People from all walks of life and careers commit suicide. I hear that being a famous actor/comedian is pretty stressful too judging by the suicide rate.

Contrary to what you or BG think, many of those prison guards also sit behind a computer for most of their shift. The turnover is not that high and the morale is no lower than any other field of work.

The “altercation” you’re referring to with a murderer/rapist/abuser, etc. is not what you think it is. These criminals are not so tough when they are locked into a facility wearing PJ’s and ready to get thumped any time they fall out of line. And it’s not one unarmed guard going up against a big bad criminal. It’s 15 armed guards going up against one unarmed moron. Pretty easy job. And for many of the ones that take that job, they do it because they find it to be fun. And financially rewarding.

As for BG not being able to pass the psych exam, well . . . Big Surprise. Big. HUGE.

And, to repeat, to keep beating the drum of “do it yourself, or you’ve waived the right to complain” is nonsensical. It surprises me you keep making that argument, as I assumed you were more thoughtful and reasoned.[/quote]

Regarding the suicide…he was stabbed by prisoners (not sure of the number, as I believe there were multiple prisoners involved…so much for your theory that they all turn into pussycats when they enter jail, or that there are 15 guards any time they have to deal with a criminal — that’s totally untrue), and I believe there was some type of sexual assault or an attempted assault on him when they had him — he never spoke about the sexual assault explicitly, and it’s conjecture on my part, but it was obvious that something went very wrong during this altercation, in addition to “just” being stabbed.

After this incident, he basically lost it. He had such a seething, passionate hatred of criminals after that, that it became an issue on the job. There was some sort of administrative punishment because of the way he acted toward the inmates after that (he might have been in the process of being fired, but I can’t remember the exact details), and he had so much hate inside, that he essentially lost his mind. He thought the criminals destroyed his life by hurting him and, because of the problems on the job that arose as a result of the incident, he didn’t want to live anymore. He worked so hard to get that job, and took great pride in what he did, so when things took a turn for the worse, there was nothing left for him, in his mind.

As to your assertion that turnover is low among prison guards, the facts don’t seem to bear that out:

Nearly 1 in 4 U.S. prison guards quit or are fired each year, a likely consequence of stresses created by low-paid work with often violent or mentally ill inmates in crowded jails, prison experts said Friday.

While high turnover among guards is not new, two recent prison escapes, in Texas and Alabama, put the spotlight on conditions inside the nation’s correctional facilities and the dangers that arise when prison jobs go unfilled.

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/03/news/mn-20687

………………

High turnover among prison guards has long been noted as a problem plaguing corrections. This study indicates that turnover among rank and file employees results from organizational and cultural strains within the formal organization. A sample survey of 55 former prison guards indicates that the most significant variable in explaining the termination of their prison work is race. Young urban black guards tend to find themselves in conflict with the top echelon in the custodial force while the white recruits have difficulty normalizing relations with the minority inmates.

http://cjr.sagepub.com/content/2/2/57.short

………………

Prison guard cuts could come through attrition
If the Legislature orders TDCJ to reduce the number of correctional officers and close prisons, the cuts could probably be managed effectively through attrition with few actual layoffs, according to a report (not online) I received in an open records request from TDCJ called “FY 2010 Agency Turnover by Title.” That document shows the number of COs remaining steady a little more than 28,000 over the last fiscal year, but with 5,724 CO “separations” from the agency in just one year, or 20.31% of their prison guard workforce. The turnover rate for a CO 1, or an entry level guard slot, was a whopping 59%.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2011/03/prison-guard-cuts-could-come-through.html

In Texas:

Annual turnover rate is 90% in TDCJ’s private prisons
Mon, 05/04/2009 – 12:51pm — nick
Amongst the interesting statistics in the Texas Senate Criminal Justice Committee’s interim report on private prisons (PDF), was the shocking statistic that TDCJ-contracted private prisons have a 90% annual staff turnover rate. The report also presented numbers on differences in guard pay between public and private facilities.

“The wages and benefits paid to employees of private contractors are generally lower than that paid to employees of state-operated facilities… Correctional officer salaries in the private prisons vary among facilities, with the highest peaking at slightly more than $24,000 annually.”

For comparison to this figure, TDCJ Director Brad Livingston told the Austin American Statesman (“Big raises sought for prison workers,” August 14) that starting pay for correctional officers in public facilities is $26,016, and the maximum salaries range from $34,624 to $42,242. This means the lowest-paid TDCJ guard’s annual salary is $2,000 more than the highest-paid guard at TDCJ-contracted private prisons.

This probably contributes to the high turnover at private facilities noted in the report:

During FY 2008 the correctional officer turnover rate at the seven private prisons was 90 percent (60 percent for the five privately-operated state jails), which in either case is higher than the 24 percent turnover rate for TDCJ correctional officers during FY 2008.

It’s hard to understand how ANY organization can operate with 90% staff turnover.

http://www.texasprisonbidness.org/tdcj/annual-turnover-rate-90-tdcjs-private-prisons
———————————-

Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!

Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!

Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”

The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it!

[CA renter]

[quote=pabloesqobar][quote=CA renter]
One of my old roommates in L.A. dated a prison guard. It literally drove him crazy, to the point that he shot himself in the head. The stories he told were incredible, and anyone who wants to do it is welcome to do so (then they’d actually have something to base their opinions on). I, for one, would not do it for any price.

Like BG said, it is NOT an easy job to qualify for, nor an easy job to do, contrary to what many of the people who sit behind computers all day like to assert. The turnover is very high, and morale is low, even with this “exhorbitant” pay.

I’d bet the people who are criticizing prison guards’ pay have never had an altercation with a violent and/or insane criminal, much less had to deal with multiple murderers, rapists, child abusers, etc. of the worst kind on a daily basis. That’s why I keep saying, “sign up.” Do it for a year or two, then come back and tell us how easy it is, and how these people should be paid less.[/quote]

That’s cool you don’t want to do it. I’m at a point where I don’t want to either. No need to.

That’s the first time I’ve heard of a prison guard committing suicide solely because of the pressures/stress from the job. People from all walks of life and careers commit suicide. I hear that being a famous actor/comedian is pretty stressful too judging by the suicide rate.

Contrary to what you or BG think, many of those prison guards also sit behind a computer for most of their shift. The turnover is not that high and the morale is no lower than any other field of work.

The “altercation” you’re referring to with a murderer/rapist/abuser, etc. is not what you think it is. These criminals are not so tough when they are locked into a facility wearing PJ’s and ready to get thumped any time they fall out of line. And it’s not one unarmed guard going up against a big bad criminal. It’s 15 armed guards going up against one unarmed moron. Pretty easy job. And for many of the ones that take that job, they do it because they find it to be fun. And financially rewarding.

As for BG not being able to pass the psych exam, well . . . Big Surprise. Big. HUGE.

And, to repeat, to keep beating the drum of “do it yourself, or you’ve waived the right to complain” is nonsensical. It surprises me you keep making that argument, as I assumed you were more thoughtful and reasoned.[/quote]

Regarding the suicide…he was stabbed by prisoners (not sure of the number, as I believe there were multiple prisoners involved…so much for your theory that they all turn into pussycats when they enter jail, or that there are 15 guards any time they have to deal with a criminal — that’s totally untrue), and I believe there was some type of sexual assault or an attempted assault on him when they had him — he never spoke about the sexual assault explicitly, and it’s conjecture on my part, but it was obvious that something went very wrong during this altercation, in addition to “just” being stabbed.

After this incident, he basically lost it. He had such a seething, passionate hatred of criminals after that, that it became an issue on the job. There was some sort of administrative punishment because of the way he acted toward the inmates after that (he might have been in the process of being fired, but I can’t remember the exact details), and he had so much hate inside, that he essentially lost his mind. He thought the criminals destroyed his life by hurting him and, because of the problems on the job that arose as a result of the incident, he didn’t want to live anymore. He worked so hard to get that job, and took great pride in what he did, so when things took a turn for the worse, there was nothing left for him, in his mind.

As to your assertion that turnover is low among prison guards, the facts don’t seem to bear that out:

Nearly 1 in 4 U.S. prison guards quit or are fired each year, a likely consequence of stresses created by low-paid work with often violent or mentally ill inmates in crowded jails, prison experts said Friday.

While high turnover among guards is not new, two recent prison escapes, in Texas and Alabama, put the spotlight on conditions inside the nation’s correctional facilities and the dangers that arise when prison jobs go unfilled.

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/03/news/mn-20687

………………

High turnover among prison guards has long been noted as a problem plaguing corrections. This study indicates that turnover among rank and file employees results from organizational and cultural strains within the formal organization. A sample survey of 55 former prison guards indicates that the most significant variable in explaining the termination of their prison work is race. Young urban black guards tend to find themselves in conflict with the top echelon in the custodial force while the white recruits have difficulty normalizing relations with the minority inmates.

http://cjr.sagepub.com/content/2/2/57.short

………………

Prison guard cuts could come through attrition
If the Legislature orders TDCJ to reduce the number of correctional officers and close prisons, the cuts could probably be managed effectively through attrition with few actual layoffs, according to a report (not online) I received in an open records request from TDCJ called “FY 2010 Agency Turnover by Title.” That document shows the number of COs remaining steady a little more than 28,000 over the last fiscal year, but with 5,724 CO “separations” from the agency in just one year, or 20.31% of their prison guard workforce. The turnover rate for a CO 1, or an entry level guard slot, was a whopping 59%.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2011/03/prison-guard-cuts-could-come-through.html

In Texas:

Annual turnover rate is 90% in TDCJ’s private prisons
Mon, 05/04/2009 – 12:51pm — nick
Amongst the interesting statistics in the Texas Senate Criminal Justice Committee’s interim report on private prisons (PDF), was the shocking statistic that TDCJ-contracted private prisons have a 90% annual staff turnover rate. The report also presented numbers on differences in guard pay between public and private facilities.

“The wages and benefits paid to employees of private contractors are generally lower than that paid to employees of state-operated facilities… Correctional officer salaries in the private prisons vary among facilities, with the highest peaking at slightly more than $24,000 annually.”

For comparison to this figure, TDCJ Director Brad Livingston told the Austin American Statesman (“Big raises sought for prison workers,” August 14) that starting pay for correctional officers in public facilities is $26,016, and the maximum salaries range from $34,624 to $42,242. This means the lowest-paid TDCJ guard’s annual salary is $2,000 more than the highest-paid guard at TDCJ-contracted private prisons.

This probably contributes to the high turnover at private facilities noted in the report:

During FY 2008 the correctional officer turnover rate at the seven private prisons was 90 percent (60 percent for the five privately-operated state jails), which in either case is higher than the 24 percent turnover rate for TDCJ correctional officers during FY 2008.

It’s hard to understand how ANY organization can operate with 90% staff turnover.

http://www.texasprisonbidness.org/tdcj/annual-turnover-rate-90-tdcjs-private-prisons
———————————-

Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!

Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!

Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”

The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it!

[CA renter]

[quote=pabloesqobar][quote=CA renter]
One of my old roommates in L.A. dated a prison guard. It literally drove him crazy, to the point that he shot himself in the head. The stories he told were incredible, and anyone who wants to do it is welcome to do so (then they’d actually have something to base their opinions on). I, for one, would not do it for any price.

Like BG said, it is NOT an easy job to qualify for, nor an easy job to do, contrary to what many of the people who sit behind computers all day like to assert. The turnover is very high, and morale is low, even with this “exhorbitant” pay.

I’d bet the people who are criticizing prison guards’ pay have never had an altercation with a violent and/or insane criminal, much less had to deal with multiple murderers, rapists, child abusers, etc. of the worst kind on a daily basis. That’s why I keep saying, “sign up.” Do it for a year or two, then come back and tell us how easy it is, and how these people should be paid less.[/quote]

That’s cool you don’t want to do it. I’m at a point where I don’t want to either. No need to.

That’s the first time I’ve heard of a prison guard committing suicide solely because of the pressures/stress from the job. People from all walks of life and careers commit suicide. I hear that being a famous actor/comedian is pretty stressful too judging by the suicide rate.

Contrary to what you or BG think, many of those prison guards also sit behind a computer for most of their shift. The turnover is not that high and the morale is no lower than any other field of work.

The “altercation” you’re referring to with a murderer/rapist/abuser, etc. is not what you think it is. These criminals are not so tough when they are locked into a facility wearing PJ’s and ready to get thumped any time they fall out of line. And it’s not one unarmed guard going up against a big bad criminal. It’s 15 armed guards going up against one unarmed moron. Pretty easy job. And for many of the ones that take that job, they do it because they find it to be fun. And financially rewarding.

As for BG not being able to pass the psych exam, well . . . Big Surprise. Big. HUGE.

And, to repeat, to keep beating the drum of “do it yourself, or you’ve waived the right to complain” is nonsensical. It surprises me you keep making that argument, as I assumed you were more thoughtful and reasoned.[/quote]

Regarding the suicide…he was stabbed by prisoners (not sure of the number, as I believe there were multiple prisoners involved…so much for your theory that they all turn into pussycats when they enter jail, or that there are 15 guards any time they have to deal with a criminal — that’s totally untrue), and I believe there was some type of sexual assault or an attempted assault on him when they had him — he never spoke about the sexual assault explicitly, and it’s conjecture on my part, but it was obvious that something went very wrong during this altercation, in addition to “just” being stabbed.

After this incident, he basically lost it. He had such a seething, passionate hatred of criminals after that, that it became an issue on the job. There was some sort of administrative punishment because of the way he acted toward the inmates after that (he might have been in the process of being fired, but I can’t remember the exact details), and he had so much hate inside, that he essentially lost his mind. He thought the criminals destroyed his life by hurting him and, because of the problems on the job that arose as a result of the incident, he didn’t want to live anymore. He worked so hard to get that job, and took great pride in what he did, so when things took a turn for the worse, there was nothing left for him, in his mind.

As to your assertion that turnover is low among prison guards, the facts don’t seem to bear that out:

Nearly 1 in 4 U.S. prison guards quit or are fired each year, a likely consequence of stresses created by low-paid work with often violent or mentally ill inmates in crowded jails, prison experts said Friday.

While high turnover among guards is not new, two recent prison escapes, in Texas and Alabama, put the spotlight on conditions inside the nation’s correctional facilities and the dangers that arise when prison jobs go unfilled.

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/03/news/mn-20687

………………

High turnover among prison guards has long been noted as a problem plaguing corrections. This study indicates that turnover among rank and file employees results from organizational and cultural strains within the formal organization. A sample survey of 55 former prison guards indicates that the most significant variable in explaining the termination of their prison work is race. Young urban black guards tend to find themselves in conflict with the top echelon in the custodial force while the white recruits have difficulty normalizing relations with the minority inmates.

http://cjr.sagepub.com/content/2/2/57.short

………………

Prison guard cuts could come through attrition
If the Legislature orders TDCJ to reduce the number of correctional officers and close prisons, the cuts could probably be managed effectively through attrition with few actual layoffs, according to a report (not online) I received in an open records request from TDCJ called “FY 2010 Agency Turnover by Title.” That document shows the number of COs remaining steady a little more than 28,000 over the last fiscal year, but with 5,724 CO “separations” from the agency in just one year, or 20.31% of their prison guard workforce. The turnover rate for a CO 1, or an entry level guard slot, was a whopping 59%.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2011/03/prison-guard-cuts-could-come-through.html

In Texas:

Annual turnover rate is 90% in TDCJ’s private prisons
Mon, 05/04/2009 – 12:51pm — nick
Amongst the interesting statistics in the Texas Senate Criminal Justice Committee’s interim report on private prisons (PDF), was the shocking statistic that TDCJ-contracted private prisons have a 90% annual staff turnover rate. The report also presented numbers on differences in guard pay between public and private facilities.

“The wages and benefits paid to employees of private contractors are generally lower than that paid to employees of state-operated facilities… Correctional officer salaries in the private prisons vary among facilities, with the highest peaking at slightly more than $24,000 annually.”

For comparison to this figure, TDCJ Director Brad Livingston told the Austin American Statesman (“Big raises sought for prison workers,” August 14) that starting pay for correctional officers in public facilities is $26,016, and the maximum salaries range from $34,624 to $42,242. This means the lowest-paid TDCJ guard’s annual salary is $2,000 more than the highest-paid guard at TDCJ-contracted private prisons.

This probably contributes to the high turnover at private facilities noted in the report:

During FY 2008 the correctional officer turnover rate at the seven private prisons was 90 percent (60 percent for the five privately-operated state jails), which in either case is higher than the 24 percent turnover rate for TDCJ correctional officers during FY 2008.

It’s hard to understand how ANY organization can operate with 90% staff turnover.

http://www.texasprisonbidness.org/tdcj/annual-turnover-rate-90-tdcjs-private-prisons
———————————-

Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!

Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!

Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”

The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it!

[Author]

Posts