Obama gets peace prize for not being Bush!

[afx114]

Whether or not you agree with the policy, I don’t understand why people are shocked that Obama wants to ramp up Afghanistan. He campaigned on it, did he not? And the majority of Americans voted for him based on that campaign, did they not? Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t, I guess.

[briansd1]

[quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.

[briansd1]

[quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.

[briansd1]

[quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.

[briansd1]

[quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.

[briansd1]

[quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.[/quote]

Brian: Totally incomplete explanation and one that ignores some hugely important FACTS (which you don’t seem to like at all, Brian).

I think you should look to the US Congress as why Vietnam was ultimately “lost”, especially the vote to deprive the armed forces of South Vietnam the necessary war materials to defeat the North.

For the record, the “Viet Congs (sic)” did not encircle the city of Saigon. That was the North Vietnamese Army (which was an actual army, unlike the Viet Cong, which were irregular/insurgent forces and I won’t even get into why using the term Viet Cong versus National Liberation Front is a misnomer).

As to Nixon’s “capitulation”, well, that sort of ignores LBJ’s absolutely abysmal handling of the war from 1965 (when US forces began actual full-scale combat operations starting with the Marines landing at Da Nang) through the end of his Presidency in 1968.

Again, Brian, another poorly advanced and unsupported “argument” that doesn’t square at all with history.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.[/quote]

Brian: Totally incomplete explanation and one that ignores some hugely important FACTS (which you don’t seem to like at all, Brian).

I think you should look to the US Congress as why Vietnam was ultimately “lost”, especially the vote to deprive the armed forces of South Vietnam the necessary war materials to defeat the North.

For the record, the “Viet Congs (sic)” did not encircle the city of Saigon. That was the North Vietnamese Army (which was an actual army, unlike the Viet Cong, which were irregular/insurgent forces and I won’t even get into why using the term Viet Cong versus National Liberation Front is a misnomer).

As to Nixon’s “capitulation”, well, that sort of ignores LBJ’s absolutely abysmal handling of the war from 1965 (when US forces began actual full-scale combat operations starting with the Marines landing at Da Nang) through the end of his Presidency in 1968.

Again, Brian, another poorly advanced and unsupported “argument” that doesn’t square at all with history.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.[/quote]

Brian: Totally incomplete explanation and one that ignores some hugely important FACTS (which you don’t seem to like at all, Brian).

I think you should look to the US Congress as why Vietnam was ultimately “lost”, especially the vote to deprive the armed forces of South Vietnam the necessary war materials to defeat the North.

For the record, the “Viet Congs (sic)” did not encircle the city of Saigon. That was the North Vietnamese Army (which was an actual army, unlike the Viet Cong, which were irregular/insurgent forces and I won’t even get into why using the term Viet Cong versus National Liberation Front is a misnomer).

As to Nixon’s “capitulation”, well, that sort of ignores LBJ’s absolutely abysmal handling of the war from 1965 (when US forces began actual full-scale combat operations starting with the Marines landing at Da Nang) through the end of his Presidency in 1968.

Again, Brian, another poorly advanced and unsupported “argument” that doesn’t square at all with history.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.[/quote]

Brian: Totally incomplete explanation and one that ignores some hugely important FACTS (which you don’t seem to like at all, Brian).

I think you should look to the US Congress as why Vietnam was ultimately “lost”, especially the vote to deprive the armed forces of South Vietnam the necessary war materials to defeat the North.

For the record, the “Viet Congs (sic)” did not encircle the city of Saigon. That was the North Vietnamese Army (which was an actual army, unlike the Viet Cong, which were irregular/insurgent forces and I won’t even get into why using the term Viet Cong versus National Liberation Front is a misnomer).

As to Nixon’s “capitulation”, well, that sort of ignores LBJ’s absolutely abysmal handling of the war from 1965 (when US forces began actual full-scale combat operations starting with the Marines landing at Da Nang) through the end of his Presidency in 1968.

Again, Brian, another poorly advanced and unsupported “argument” that doesn’t square at all with history.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Aecetia] I would also agree that we won Vietnam, but it would have been nice to not have that nasty evacuation footage. [/quote]

Give me a break.

America capitulated when Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (Nobel Peace Laureates) negotiated secretly to end the war. It was Nixon, a Republican, who capitulated to the enemy.

Notice that when the Viet Congs already encircled Saigon and were about to capture the city, they gave the Americans enough time get out and not a single American aircraft was fired upon.

Yes, we won the Vietnam War but it wasn’t our military superiority and our skills at nation building that won. Our way of live and our corporations with their capital won the war. Now, the Communist leaders send their kids to American universities.[/quote]

Brian: Totally incomplete explanation and one that ignores some hugely important FACTS (which you don’t seem to like at all, Brian).

I think you should look to the US Congress as why Vietnam was ultimately “lost”, especially the vote to deprive the armed forces of South Vietnam the necessary war materials to defeat the North.

For the record, the “Viet Congs (sic)” did not encircle the city of Saigon. That was the North Vietnamese Army (which was an actual army, unlike the Viet Cong, which were irregular/insurgent forces and I won’t even get into why using the term Viet Cong versus National Liberation Front is a misnomer).

As to Nixon’s “capitulation”, well, that sort of ignores LBJ’s absolutely abysmal handling of the war from 1965 (when US forces began actual full-scale combat operations starting with the Marines landing at Da Nang) through the end of his Presidency in 1968.

Again, Brian, another poorly advanced and unsupported “argument” that doesn’t square at all with history.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
For the record, the “Viet Congs (sic)” did not encircle the city of Saigon. That was the North Vietnamese Army (which was an actual army, unlike the Viet Cong, which were irregular/insurgent forces [/quote]

I understand the differences very well. Viet Cong is used for communist and communist friendly forces generally.

You bring up an interesting point, Allan. The Viet Congs were living in the midst of American supported South-Vietnam all along. Neither the Americans, nor the South Vietnamese were able to eliminate, much less contain, the Viet Congs during the war. The Viet Congs were actually growing in strength by the day (hence the escalation to 1/2 million American troops). I visited the granite mountain in Danang where the Viet Congs were living in caves above American forces.

LBJ was president through 1969.

Nixon negotiated secretly with Communist North Vietnam culminating with the peace accords of 1973. That’s when Kissinger and Le Duc Tho were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Coincidentally, that was just after Nixon normalized relations with Communist China. Could it be that were threw our friends in Saigon under the bus to appease Red China? China was against Russian-backed North Vietnam.

The Fall of Saigon was in 1975.

The time line doesn’t work here as far as blaming LBJ for the loss of the war. Nixon and Ford lost Vietnam fair and square.

I will concede that Kennedy and LBJ were dead wrong to escalate the war. They should have walked away from the conflict.

But even before Kennedy, Dwight Eisenhower (a Republican) should have left the French to lose Vietnam alone in 1954. Want to stick it to the French? That was the time to teach them a lesson that without American help, they’re nothing.

Allan, have you been to Vietnam lately? I have. We won the war. But our military and soldiers didn’t win it. Our corporations and our consumerist way of life won that war.

What are the most popular jeans in Vietnam? Levis. They are top of line jeans and cost about 1 month’s salary. Levis is starting an installment payment program in emerging markets such as India and Vietnam.

My Vietnamese friends tell me that they love the smell of Bounce fabric softener. When an American opens up his suitcase, you immediately smell success permeating the air.

Would rather win with Bounce or with guns and blood?

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
For the record, the “Viet Congs (sic)” did not encircle the city of Saigon. That was the North Vietnamese Army (which was an actual army, unlike the Viet Cong, which were irregular/insurgent forces [/quote]

I understand the differences very well. Viet Cong is used for communist and communist friendly forces generally.

You bring up an interesting point, Allan. The Viet Congs were living in the midst of American supported South-Vietnam all along. Neither the Americans, nor the South Vietnamese were able to eliminate, much less contain, the Viet Congs during the war. The Viet Congs were actually growing in strength by the day (hence the escalation to 1/2 million American troops). I visited the granite mountain in Danang where the Viet Congs were living in caves above American forces.

LBJ was president through 1969.

Nixon negotiated secretly with Communist North Vietnam culminating with the peace accords of 1973. That’s when Kissinger and Le Duc Tho were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Coincidentally, that was just after Nixon normalized relations with Communist China. Could it be that were threw our friends in Saigon under the bus to appease Red China? China was against Russian-backed North Vietnam.

The Fall of Saigon was in 1975.

The time line doesn’t work here as far as blaming LBJ for the loss of the war. Nixon and Ford lost Vietnam fair and square.

I will concede that Kennedy and LBJ were dead wrong to escalate the war. They should have walked away from the conflict.

But even before Kennedy, Dwight Eisenhower (a Republican) should have left the French to lose Vietnam alone in 1954. Want to stick it to the French? That was the time to teach them a lesson that without American help, they’re nothing.

Allan, have you been to Vietnam lately? I have. We won the war. But our military and soldiers didn’t win it. Our corporations and our consumerist way of life won that war.

What are the most popular jeans in Vietnam? Levis. They are top of line jeans and cost about 1 month’s salary. Levis is starting an installment payment program in emerging markets such as India and Vietnam.

My Vietnamese friends tell me that they love the smell of Bounce fabric softener. When an American opens up his suitcase, you immediately smell success permeating the air.

Would rather win with Bounce or with guns and blood?

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
For the record, the “Viet Congs (sic)” did not encircle the city of Saigon. That was the North Vietnamese Army (which was an actual army, unlike the Viet Cong, which were irregular/insurgent forces [/quote]

I understand the differences very well. Viet Cong is used for communist and communist friendly forces generally.

You bring up an interesting point, Allan. The Viet Congs were living in the midst of American supported South-Vietnam all along. Neither the Americans, nor the South Vietnamese were able to eliminate, much less contain, the Viet Congs during the war. The Viet Congs were actually growing in strength by the day (hence the escalation to 1/2 million American troops). I visited the granite mountain in Danang where the Viet Congs were living in caves above American forces.

LBJ was president through 1969.

Nixon negotiated secretly with Communist North Vietnam culminating with the peace accords of 1973. That’s when Kissinger and Le Duc Tho were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Coincidentally, that was just after Nixon normalized relations with Communist China. Could it be that were threw our friends in Saigon under the bus to appease Red China? China was against Russian-backed North Vietnam.

The Fall of Saigon was in 1975.

The time line doesn’t work here as far as blaming LBJ for the loss of the war. Nixon and Ford lost Vietnam fair and square.

I will concede that Kennedy and LBJ were dead wrong to escalate the war. They should have walked away from the conflict.

But even before Kennedy, Dwight Eisenhower (a Republican) should have left the French to lose Vietnam alone in 1954. Want to stick it to the French? That was the time to teach them a lesson that without American help, they’re nothing.

Allan, have you been to Vietnam lately? I have. We won the war. But our military and soldiers didn’t win it. Our corporations and our consumerist way of life won that war.

What are the most popular jeans in Vietnam? Levis. They are top of line jeans and cost about 1 month’s salary. Levis is starting an installment payment program in emerging markets such as India and Vietnam.

My Vietnamese friends tell me that they love the smell of Bounce fabric softener. When an American opens up his suitcase, you immediately smell success permeating the air.

Would rather win with Bounce or with guns and blood?

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
For the record, the “Viet Congs (sic)” did not encircle the city of Saigon. That was the North Vietnamese Army (which was an actual army, unlike the Viet Cong, which were irregular/insurgent forces [/quote]

I understand the differences very well. Viet Cong is used for communist and communist friendly forces generally.

You bring up an interesting point, Allan. The Viet Congs were living in the midst of American supported South-Vietnam all along. Neither the Americans, nor the South Vietnamese were able to eliminate, much less contain, the Viet Congs during the war. The Viet Congs were actually growing in strength by the day (hence the escalation to 1/2 million American troops). I visited the granite mountain in Danang where the Viet Congs were living in caves above American forces.

LBJ was president through 1969.

Nixon negotiated secretly with Communist North Vietnam culminating with the peace accords of 1973. That’s when Kissinger and Le Duc Tho were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Coincidentally, that was just after Nixon normalized relations with Communist China. Could it be that were threw our friends in Saigon under the bus to appease Red China? China was against Russian-backed North Vietnam.

The Fall of Saigon was in 1975.

The time line doesn’t work here as far as blaming LBJ for the loss of the war. Nixon and Ford lost Vietnam fair and square.

I will concede that Kennedy and LBJ were dead wrong to escalate the war. They should have walked away from the conflict.

But even before Kennedy, Dwight Eisenhower (a Republican) should have left the French to lose Vietnam alone in 1954. Want to stick it to the French? That was the time to teach them a lesson that without American help, they’re nothing.

Allan, have you been to Vietnam lately? I have. We won the war. But our military and soldiers didn’t win it. Our corporations and our consumerist way of life won that war.

What are the most popular jeans in Vietnam? Levis. They are top of line jeans and cost about 1 month’s salary. Levis is starting an installment payment program in emerging markets such as India and Vietnam.

My Vietnamese friends tell me that they love the smell of Bounce fabric softener. When an American opens up his suitcase, you immediately smell success permeating the air.

Would rather win with Bounce or with guns and blood?

[Author]

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