louis ck.

[FlyerInHi]

Zk, i think this is an interesting and funny article on “where the line is.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/12/08/after-trent-franks-men-worry-if-asking-subordinates-to-bear-their-child-is-still-okay/?tid=hybrid_popularity_challenger_1_na&utm_term=.df4831e41176

[zk]

[quote=zk][quote=spdrun]zk:
(1) There’s reputable research stating that women are actually MORE interested in sex than men.
[/quote]

Show me.

[/quote]

[quote=spdrun]
[crickets]
[/quote]

Uh huh. That’s what I thought.

[zk]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Zk, i think this is an interesting and funny article on “where the line is.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/12/08/after-trent-franks-men-worry-if-asking-subordinates-to-bear-their-child-is-still-okay/?tid=hybrid_popularity_challenger_1_na&utm_term=.df4831e41176%5B/quote%5D

Meh. A one-joke article (told a dozen different ways) that tries to both be funny and make a point, but succeeds in neither.

Kinda like an Andy Borowitz column. Take an obvious observation, state it in a snarky manner, and expect people to find it funny and insightful. Not impressed.

[njtosd]

[quote=zk]Back to the subject of sexual misconduct.

Scenario:

You’re a guy like, say, Matt Lauer. You’re rich, famous, and good-looking. There are a lot of women out there who want to have sex with you. Even sex with no strings. And, of course, a lot who don’t.

And you’re also in a position of power. You can make or break careers.

Are you required to never approach a woman at work regarding sex? Are you required never to approach any woman in your entire field? It seems any approach would put the woman in a position that so many women have found themselves in. They think (some of them correctly) that refusing could hurt their careers. So they say yes, even though they don’t want to.

What if a woman is giving you “the signals?” Signals, Jerry, signals!! What if she’s got the semaphore flags out, with her arms fully extended and waving fiercely, flags making all kinds of noise as she flaps them around, and a look on her face that says, “look! I’m right here! I’m waving these flags at you!” You can’t act on that without risking your own career. You could say, “it appears you want to have sex with me. Is that correct?” Even if you say that (and on the off chance it doesn’t kill the mood), you’re still the one bringing it up and asking the woman to have sex (presumably asking, if she says that you are correct). What if she’s giving more subtle signals? You sure as hell don’t want to screw with that. What if she walks right up to you, unbeckoned, and says, “I want to have sex with you right now in that storeroom right there?”

While never approaching a woman regarding sex in this scenario might be a wise policy, should it really be required? Is there a way to approach a woman in that situation without putting her in a position that you shouldn’t put her in? I mean, even if you say, “yes, I’m Matt Lauer. I can make or break your career. But I won’t. A “no” from you won’t be a problem for you.” Even if you say something like that, there’s a chance they’ll feel pressured anyway.[/quote]

1. Where did the media come up with the idea that Matt Lauer is good looking?

2. Yes. If you want to avoid damage to your career, don’t “sleep where you eat.” Interestingly, this is a quote from a man who, while I was a summer associate at a law firm, slid up next to me on a banquette at a restaurant (it was a firm function) grabbed my thigh and said “how’s it going, baby cakes?” Later at another firm function when I was an associate, he invited me to join him on his motor cycle and said “best way I know to make partner.” A male friend of mine who was having trouble making partner (and to whom I feel much appreciation to this day) yelled “REALLY??” and jumped on the back of the bike 🙂 .

3. Even if she’s giving this hypothetical guy “the signals” – everyone knows that work relationships rarely end up well, and problems are almost unavoidable. Why open yourself up for that? Other than small town USA, most often the fraction of available women who aren’t coworkers is going to be at least 99%. And, on a more practical note, dating at work has some scary downstream results. Do you really want all of the women at work to know your intimate secrets? You know how women talk ;).

4. There are temptations in life – you can choose to resist or give in, but the result is yours and you have to deal with it. It’s like my kids saying that they didn’t do their homework because they couldn’t resist going to a social event. This problem is as old as the hills – Biblical even (see: Potiphar’s wife – although this was a circumstance where the victim couldn’t have avoided the situation he was in). Bottom line – you and you alone need to take responsibility for your own well being.

Of course, none of this condones people making false allegations. ….

[FlyerInHi]

OMG, njtosd, I so agree with you.
BTW, sometimes I say stuff I don’t believe and sacarsm doesn’t come across on a post.

I would add that I find it interesting that lots of men and women support civilizing commandments (morals, values such as the 10 commandments) but they will revert to human nature to justify bad behavior. Kinda like the law partner.

About Matt Lauer being good looking, I think men tend to suffer the lake wobegom effect more, especially as they get older and make more money. Women are more aware that they go downhill.

[zk]

[quote=njtosd] A male friend of mine who was having trouble making partner…yelled “REALLY??” and jumped on the back of the bike 🙂 .

[/quote]

That’s hilarious. Did he ever make partner?

As for the rest of your post, you’re just talking common sense. I agree with basically all of what you say. (Although I think that while 99% of available women aren’t coworkers, that doesn’t change the fact that, if you add up each minute that you spend with an available woman, for most men somewhere between 50% and 95% of those minutes are with coworkers.)

As I said in my previous post:

[quote=zk]

While never approaching a woman regarding sex in this scenario might be a wise policy, should it really be required?
[/quote]

My problem is that we seem to have taken common sense out of it. It’s a black and white thing now. If you’re in a position of power, you can’t approach a woman in your company for sex without risking your entire career, regardless of any other circumstances.

[quote=njtosd]
Even if she’s giving this hypothetical guy “the signals” – everyone knows that work relationships rarely end up well, and problems are almost unavoidable. Why open yourself up for that?
[/quote]

Maybe to him the relationship ending up well isn’t important to him and maybe typical workplace-type post-romance problems are worth it to him. But that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about his career ending.

[spdrun]

Most relationships don’t end up lasting. This being said, I know quite a few people who married co-workers and are very happy. Would you deny them their happiness in the name of another Puritanical taboo?

This taboo can be taken to absurd proportions. Two doctors working for different hospitals shouldn’t date if one is a manager, because the relationship might advance (or harm) the non-manager’s career if they ever decide to apply to the other hospital.

[FlyerInHi]

There are risks in life. Take the risks if you want but there could be consequences. That’s called responsibility.

[spdrun]

Absolutely — but those risks should be people’s private business. They shouldn’t be an excuse for harassment by the public, which knows nothing of the real situation.

Yeah, instances of actual harassment (quid-pro-quo in the same workplace) and even assault exist, but there also should be an expectation of privacy.

Getting back on topic: Louis CK? Asking co-workers (actresses on his show) to watch him masturbate? Creepy and disgusting.

[FlyerInHi]

Prominent people who make money because they are famous should not have expectations of privacy. You can’t choose to have your life all over the news only when the news is positive and promote your money making ventures. The good comes with the bad. I think there was a Supreme Court ruling on that.

Basically if .you use the media as a promotional tool, then don’t complain if there are negative news.

[njtosd]

[quote=zk]

While never approaching a woman regarding sex in this scenario might be a wise policy, should it really be required? Is there a way to approach a woman in that situation without putting her in a position that you shouldn’t put her in? I mean, even if you say, “yes, I’m Matt Lauer. I can make or break your career. But I won’t. A “no” from you won’t be a problem for you.” Even if you say something like that, there’s a chance they’ll feel pressured anyway.[/quote]

I didn’t catch all of this before. I sort of question your premise, as most companies have a policy such as this: https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/tools-and-samples/policies/pages/cms_006713.aspx

Also – “there’s a chance”? I can guarantee that person would feel pressured. To analogize – your boss comes up to you and asks to borrow $10,000 at a reasonable interest rate and also says it’s ok to say no. HA.

If you are saying that it’s a shame that life’s not fair – I agree.

[Balboa]

1. There is a difference between making the occasional inept or unrequited pass at someone — which is bound to happen occasionally — and behaving as if every new hire is on the menu.

2. That “OK, but brunch first” shirt? I am sort of shocked that anyone would assume it refers to sex, but sort of get that you’d think that if you are viewing women with a particular lens.

3. I am extremely angry about how much money and fame and social capital Louie acquired while hiding under the meta-ness of his work:

“I’m going to say this is about me because specificity is good for the bit, but we all know I’m talking about vast societal issues because I am woke and an ally of women.”

“Just kidding. It was all me. I’ve lost track, so when I apologized to a woman for pushing her into a bathroom, it was the wrong woman.”

Those stories about him — most of which did *not* involve consent, zk — were out there for years, but for years they could not be heard above his pilots and development deals, and his specials, and his shtick, and his repeated refusals to address the claims, and the refusals of his fellow male comedians turned serious interviewers to seriously consider what was being said about him.

I don’t know if there’s a line in the last 10 years of comedy that brought me more continuous joy than, “What about…what about Obama?” But whatever. I’ll get my laughs elsewhere.

[FlyerInHi]

I’m thinking that almost 100 years after suffrage, women are gaining new power.
Women are going to college more, technology is allowing women in the military and jobs preciously reserved for men. In more families, women earn more.
Technology is also allowing women to increasingly choose the fathers of their children.

The me too movement is a major milestone for sure.

[FlyerInHi]

Shaun White, is he exempt? And is sending pics of erect penises to a female subordinate ipso facto sexual harassment?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2018/02/13/shaun-white-gold-medal-sexual-harassment-allegations/335956002/

Shaun White is dininished in my eyes. He should just take his gold medal and fade away. Launching him as a celebrity would be so wrong.

Maybe I feel this way because i only have nieces. One is in college, wants a PhD, doesn’t want to get married (she’s thin, pretty with long hair, likes boys but not that much because she’s so much smarter). Anyway, she can do whatever she wants, why not reach the very the top and even surpass men?

[Anonymous]

Snowboarders have employees?

[Author]

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