Kucinich has gone insane

[jeeman]

“under the kucinich plan, if a bank has $10 on deposit they lend out $10.”

And then the person who borrowed that $10 could end up lending it out to someone….

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]I agree with your points about doing away with the two party system. The biggest problem is the lobbying industry and you pegged it. I am not sure how we can push that one out of the way.

We see the same thing through different eyes, which is that the real control lies well beyond the govt. That the people elect the govt officials who make laws that can benefit or hinder the freedoms of those same people. That at some point in time the govt lost control and (seemingly) is kind of a puppet to industry.

I find it ironic that when the so called “financial reform” went through Wall St was pretty happy. That big pharma will benefit quite well from the healthcare reform. That in the midst of what is supposed to be a “hostile to business” govt, we have witnessed what is close to one of the largest ever rallies on Wall St.

To me it just doesn’t pass the sniff test. I don’t fall into the everything is all right, the market is raging, the govt will take care of everything, and we will all live happily ever after.

I agree with you about transparency and accountability. Maybe you see it, but I do not.[/quote]

Totally agree with you about the bolded part (and everything else). And as someone who is an ardent supporter of “socialized” medicine, I am as angry about “Obamacare” as any die-hard Republican. It was theft from taxpayers, and the main beneficiary of that package was the insurance industry (any surprise it’s yet another member of the FIRE sector that seems to rule our government?).

As far as my seeing the transparency and accountability…heck no, I don’t see it! Not sure if that’s what you meant. What I was trying to convey is that we need to **increase** transparency and accountability, and in a very big way. What we have now is a sham democracy.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]I agree with your points about doing away with the two party system. The biggest problem is the lobbying industry and you pegged it. I am not sure how we can push that one out of the way.

We see the same thing through different eyes, which is that the real control lies well beyond the govt. That the people elect the govt officials who make laws that can benefit or hinder the freedoms of those same people. That at some point in time the govt lost control and (seemingly) is kind of a puppet to industry.

I find it ironic that when the so called “financial reform” went through Wall St was pretty happy. That big pharma will benefit quite well from the healthcare reform. That in the midst of what is supposed to be a “hostile to business” govt, we have witnessed what is close to one of the largest ever rallies on Wall St.

To me it just doesn’t pass the sniff test. I don’t fall into the everything is all right, the market is raging, the govt will take care of everything, and we will all live happily ever after.

I agree with you about transparency and accountability. Maybe you see it, but I do not.[/quote]

Totally agree with you about the bolded part (and everything else). And as someone who is an ardent supporter of “socialized” medicine, I am as angry about “Obamacare” as any die-hard Republican. It was theft from taxpayers, and the main beneficiary of that package was the insurance industry (any surprise it’s yet another member of the FIRE sector that seems to rule our government?).

As far as my seeing the transparency and accountability…heck no, I don’t see it! Not sure if that’s what you meant. What I was trying to convey is that we need to **increase** transparency and accountability, and in a very big way. What we have now is a sham democracy.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]I agree with your points about doing away with the two party system. The biggest problem is the lobbying industry and you pegged it. I am not sure how we can push that one out of the way.

We see the same thing through different eyes, which is that the real control lies well beyond the govt. That the people elect the govt officials who make laws that can benefit or hinder the freedoms of those same people. That at some point in time the govt lost control and (seemingly) is kind of a puppet to industry.

I find it ironic that when the so called “financial reform” went through Wall St was pretty happy. That big pharma will benefit quite well from the healthcare reform. That in the midst of what is supposed to be a “hostile to business” govt, we have witnessed what is close to one of the largest ever rallies on Wall St.

To me it just doesn’t pass the sniff test. I don’t fall into the everything is all right, the market is raging, the govt will take care of everything, and we will all live happily ever after.

I agree with you about transparency and accountability. Maybe you see it, but I do not.[/quote]

Totally agree with you about the bolded part (and everything else). And as someone who is an ardent supporter of “socialized” medicine, I am as angry about “Obamacare” as any die-hard Republican. It was theft from taxpayers, and the main beneficiary of that package was the insurance industry (any surprise it’s yet another member of the FIRE sector that seems to rule our government?).

As far as my seeing the transparency and accountability…heck no, I don’t see it! Not sure if that’s what you meant. What I was trying to convey is that we need to **increase** transparency and accountability, and in a very big way. What we have now is a sham democracy.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]I agree with your points about doing away with the two party system. The biggest problem is the lobbying industry and you pegged it. I am not sure how we can push that one out of the way.

We see the same thing through different eyes, which is that the real control lies well beyond the govt. That the people elect the govt officials who make laws that can benefit or hinder the freedoms of those same people. That at some point in time the govt lost control and (seemingly) is kind of a puppet to industry.

I find it ironic that when the so called “financial reform” went through Wall St was pretty happy. That big pharma will benefit quite well from the healthcare reform. That in the midst of what is supposed to be a “hostile to business” govt, we have witnessed what is close to one of the largest ever rallies on Wall St.

To me it just doesn’t pass the sniff test. I don’t fall into the everything is all right, the market is raging, the govt will take care of everything, and we will all live happily ever after.

I agree with you about transparency and accountability. Maybe you see it, but I do not.[/quote]

Totally agree with you about the bolded part (and everything else). And as someone who is an ardent supporter of “socialized” medicine, I am as angry about “Obamacare” as any die-hard Republican. It was theft from taxpayers, and the main beneficiary of that package was the insurance industry (any surprise it’s yet another member of the FIRE sector that seems to rule our government?).

As far as my seeing the transparency and accountability…heck no, I don’t see it! Not sure if that’s what you meant. What I was trying to convey is that we need to **increase** transparency and accountability, and in a very big way. What we have now is a sham democracy.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]I agree with your points about doing away with the two party system. The biggest problem is the lobbying industry and you pegged it. I am not sure how we can push that one out of the way.

We see the same thing through different eyes, which is that the real control lies well beyond the govt. That the people elect the govt officials who make laws that can benefit or hinder the freedoms of those same people. That at some point in time the govt lost control and (seemingly) is kind of a puppet to industry.

I find it ironic that when the so called “financial reform” went through Wall St was pretty happy. That big pharma will benefit quite well from the healthcare reform. That in the midst of what is supposed to be a “hostile to business” govt, we have witnessed what is close to one of the largest ever rallies on Wall St.

To me it just doesn’t pass the sniff test. I don’t fall into the everything is all right, the market is raging, the govt will take care of everything, and we will all live happily ever after.

I agree with you about transparency and accountability. Maybe you see it, but I do not.[/quote]

Totally agree with you about the bolded part (and everything else). And as someone who is an ardent supporter of “socialized” medicine, I am as angry about “Obamacare” as any die-hard Republican. It was theft from taxpayers, and the main beneficiary of that package was the insurance industry (any surprise it’s yet another member of the FIRE sector that seems to rule our government?).

As far as my seeing the transparency and accountability…heck no, I don’t see it! Not sure if that’s what you meant. What I was trying to convey is that we need to **increase** transparency and accountability, and in a very big way. What we have now is a sham democracy.

[Arraya]

[quote=permabear][quote=SD Realtor]I don’t want to bang on health care. I guess I am just kind of awed by the reach of the govt. When does it stop and where does it end?[/quote]

I stopped worry about the reach of government once I learned that our attack… er, defense… budget is bigger than the rest of the world’s combined.

We send troops overseas against the will of our Constitution by naming our invasions “missions” rather than wars, enabling us to sidestep our checks and balances. Then we use our wonderful Executive branch dictatorship to strongarm other countries into undermining key peace treaties and environmental regulations, so our corporations can profit at the world’s expense.

But you’re right, those pesky social programs that help people are the big problem. As long as we focus on killing them, it’s ok.[/quote]

The military-intelligence complex has always been the spreader and enforcer of capitalism and ‘privatization’. If bribes, election tampering, funding of “friendly” opposition does not work then we always can send in the troops. It’s all about business.

The mistake that most make is looking at ‘government’ and private industry as separate entities. They never have been, ever. Not in Europe when feudalism collapsed, not in America when we settled the country. Early European capitalism was studied as the “political economy” it took a century before they separated the studies to economic and political sciences seemingly forgetting it’s inception. The first 100 years of american-style capitalism was marked by the largest government handouts in history. The giving away of hundreds of thousands of sq miles of land for farms and railroads as well as free plentiful resource deposits. Of course, we had slave labor as well. Then came capitalism’s next big break in the late 19th century. Which was oil and the industries and technologies it spawned. Not to mention the ability to do tremendous amounts of ever increasing work from ever increasing amounts of energy.

Now that colonialism is over(land theft and slavery) as well as ever increasing amounts of energy(the ability to do more and more work) – the US Empire is entering late stage capitalist imperialism and all that entails: export the proletariat for cheap labor, constant resource wars, more and more militarization of the economy and society, rapid growth of a bloated and corrupt financial capitalist over-class and maintenance of a heavily propagandized police state( a police state is a huge industry btw) with constant economic crisis and the commoditization of everything.

Eventually the system will alienate the majority of the population under it’s current logic, one way or another. From a consumption standpoint the top 20-30% of the population drives the economy anyway.

[Arraya]

[quote=permabear][quote=SD Realtor]I don’t want to bang on health care. I guess I am just kind of awed by the reach of the govt. When does it stop and where does it end?[/quote]

I stopped worry about the reach of government once I learned that our attack… er, defense… budget is bigger than the rest of the world’s combined.

We send troops overseas against the will of our Constitution by naming our invasions “missions” rather than wars, enabling us to sidestep our checks and balances. Then we use our wonderful Executive branch dictatorship to strongarm other countries into undermining key peace treaties and environmental regulations, so our corporations can profit at the world’s expense.

But you’re right, those pesky social programs that help people are the big problem. As long as we focus on killing them, it’s ok.[/quote]

The military-intelligence complex has always been the spreader and enforcer of capitalism and ‘privatization’. If bribes, election tampering, funding of “friendly” opposition does not work then we always can send in the troops. It’s all about business.

The mistake that most make is looking at ‘government’ and private industry as separate entities. They never have been, ever. Not in Europe when feudalism collapsed, not in America when we settled the country. Early European capitalism was studied as the “political economy” it took a century before they separated the studies to economic and political sciences seemingly forgetting it’s inception. The first 100 years of american-style capitalism was marked by the largest government handouts in history. The giving away of hundreds of thousands of sq miles of land for farms and railroads as well as free plentiful resource deposits. Of course, we had slave labor as well. Then came capitalism’s next big break in the late 19th century. Which was oil and the industries and technologies it spawned. Not to mention the ability to do tremendous amounts of ever increasing work from ever increasing amounts of energy.

Now that colonialism is over(land theft and slavery) as well as ever increasing amounts of energy(the ability to do more and more work) – the US Empire is entering late stage capitalist imperialism and all that entails: export the proletariat for cheap labor, constant resource wars, more and more militarization of the economy and society, rapid growth of a bloated and corrupt financial capitalist over-class and maintenance of a heavily propagandized police state( a police state is a huge industry btw) with constant economic crisis and the commoditization of everything.

Eventually the system will alienate the majority of the population under it’s current logic, one way or another. From a consumption standpoint the top 20-30% of the population drives the economy anyway.

[Arraya]

[quote=permabear][quote=SD Realtor]I don’t want to bang on health care. I guess I am just kind of awed by the reach of the govt. When does it stop and where does it end?[/quote]

I stopped worry about the reach of government once I learned that our attack… er, defense… budget is bigger than the rest of the world’s combined.

We send troops overseas against the will of our Constitution by naming our invasions “missions” rather than wars, enabling us to sidestep our checks and balances. Then we use our wonderful Executive branch dictatorship to strongarm other countries into undermining key peace treaties and environmental regulations, so our corporations can profit at the world’s expense.

But you’re right, those pesky social programs that help people are the big problem. As long as we focus on killing them, it’s ok.[/quote]

The military-intelligence complex has always been the spreader and enforcer of capitalism and ‘privatization’. If bribes, election tampering, funding of “friendly” opposition does not work then we always can send in the troops. It’s all about business.

The mistake that most make is looking at ‘government’ and private industry as separate entities. They never have been, ever. Not in Europe when feudalism collapsed, not in America when we settled the country. Early European capitalism was studied as the “political economy” it took a century before they separated the studies to economic and political sciences seemingly forgetting it’s inception. The first 100 years of american-style capitalism was marked by the largest government handouts in history. The giving away of hundreds of thousands of sq miles of land for farms and railroads as well as free plentiful resource deposits. Of course, we had slave labor as well. Then came capitalism’s next big break in the late 19th century. Which was oil and the industries and technologies it spawned. Not to mention the ability to do tremendous amounts of ever increasing work from ever increasing amounts of energy.

Now that colonialism is over(land theft and slavery) as well as ever increasing amounts of energy(the ability to do more and more work) – the US Empire is entering late stage capitalist imperialism and all that entails: export the proletariat for cheap labor, constant resource wars, more and more militarization of the economy and society, rapid growth of a bloated and corrupt financial capitalist over-class and maintenance of a heavily propagandized police state( a police state is a huge industry btw) with constant economic crisis and the commoditization of everything.

Eventually the system will alienate the majority of the population under it’s current logic, one way or another. From a consumption standpoint the top 20-30% of the population drives the economy anyway.

[Arraya]

[quote=permabear][quote=SD Realtor]I don’t want to bang on health care. I guess I am just kind of awed by the reach of the govt. When does it stop and where does it end?[/quote]

I stopped worry about the reach of government once I learned that our attack… er, defense… budget is bigger than the rest of the world’s combined.

We send troops overseas against the will of our Constitution by naming our invasions “missions” rather than wars, enabling us to sidestep our checks and balances. Then we use our wonderful Executive branch dictatorship to strongarm other countries into undermining key peace treaties and environmental regulations, so our corporations can profit at the world’s expense.

But you’re right, those pesky social programs that help people are the big problem. As long as we focus on killing them, it’s ok.[/quote]

The military-intelligence complex has always been the spreader and enforcer of capitalism and ‘privatization’. If bribes, election tampering, funding of “friendly” opposition does not work then we always can send in the troops. It’s all about business.

The mistake that most make is looking at ‘government’ and private industry as separate entities. They never have been, ever. Not in Europe when feudalism collapsed, not in America when we settled the country. Early European capitalism was studied as the “political economy” it took a century before they separated the studies to economic and political sciences seemingly forgetting it’s inception. The first 100 years of american-style capitalism was marked by the largest government handouts in history. The giving away of hundreds of thousands of sq miles of land for farms and railroads as well as free plentiful resource deposits. Of course, we had slave labor as well. Then came capitalism’s next big break in the late 19th century. Which was oil and the industries and technologies it spawned. Not to mention the ability to do tremendous amounts of ever increasing work from ever increasing amounts of energy.

Now that colonialism is over(land theft and slavery) as well as ever increasing amounts of energy(the ability to do more and more work) – the US Empire is entering late stage capitalist imperialism and all that entails: export the proletariat for cheap labor, constant resource wars, more and more militarization of the economy and society, rapid growth of a bloated and corrupt financial capitalist over-class and maintenance of a heavily propagandized police state( a police state is a huge industry btw) with constant economic crisis and the commoditization of everything.

Eventually the system will alienate the majority of the population under it’s current logic, one way or another. From a consumption standpoint the top 20-30% of the population drives the economy anyway.

[Arraya]

[quote=permabear][quote=SD Realtor]I don’t want to bang on health care. I guess I am just kind of awed by the reach of the govt. When does it stop and where does it end?[/quote]

I stopped worry about the reach of government once I learned that our attack… er, defense… budget is bigger than the rest of the world’s combined.

We send troops overseas against the will of our Constitution by naming our invasions “missions” rather than wars, enabling us to sidestep our checks and balances. Then we use our wonderful Executive branch dictatorship to strongarm other countries into undermining key peace treaties and environmental regulations, so our corporations can profit at the world’s expense.

But you’re right, those pesky social programs that help people are the big problem. As long as we focus on killing them, it’s ok.[/quote]

The military-intelligence complex has always been the spreader and enforcer of capitalism and ‘privatization’. If bribes, election tampering, funding of “friendly” opposition does not work then we always can send in the troops. It’s all about business.

The mistake that most make is looking at ‘government’ and private industry as separate entities. They never have been, ever. Not in Europe when feudalism collapsed, not in America when we settled the country. Early European capitalism was studied as the “political economy” it took a century before they separated the studies to economic and political sciences seemingly forgetting it’s inception. The first 100 years of american-style capitalism was marked by the largest government handouts in history. The giving away of hundreds of thousands of sq miles of land for farms and railroads as well as free plentiful resource deposits. Of course, we had slave labor as well. Then came capitalism’s next big break in the late 19th century. Which was oil and the industries and technologies it spawned. Not to mention the ability to do tremendous amounts of ever increasing work from ever increasing amounts of energy.

Now that colonialism is over(land theft and slavery) as well as ever increasing amounts of energy(the ability to do more and more work) – the US Empire is entering late stage capitalist imperialism and all that entails: export the proletariat for cheap labor, constant resource wars, more and more militarization of the economy and society, rapid growth of a bloated and corrupt financial capitalist over-class and maintenance of a heavily propagandized police state( a police state is a huge industry btw) with constant economic crisis and the commoditization of everything.

Eventually the system will alienate the majority of the population under it’s current logic, one way or another. From a consumption standpoint the top 20-30% of the population drives the economy anyway.

[briansd1]

Good comments, Arraya.

The military is also a socialist command state in of itself.

The recruits are taken care of from enlistment to grave and told what to do. If they don’t obey orders, they get punished.

The military is also what conservatives would call a social engineer. Harry Truman integrated the military by executive order, way ahead of society in general.

Bill Clinton would have integrated gays in the military by executive order had congress not passed don’t ask don’t tell.

The military provides numerous benefits to its members: health care, mortgage subsidies, shopping subsidies for consumer goods, booze and cigarettes, etc…

[briansd1]

Good comments, Arraya.

The military is also a socialist command state in of itself.

The recruits are taken care of from enlistment to grave and told what to do. If they don’t obey orders, they get punished.

The military is also what conservatives would call a social engineer. Harry Truman integrated the military by executive order, way ahead of society in general.

Bill Clinton would have integrated gays in the military by executive order had congress not passed don’t ask don’t tell.

The military provides numerous benefits to its members: health care, mortgage subsidies, shopping subsidies for consumer goods, booze and cigarettes, etc…

[briansd1]

Good comments, Arraya.

The military is also a socialist command state in of itself.

The recruits are taken care of from enlistment to grave and told what to do. If they don’t obey orders, they get punished.

The military is also what conservatives would call a social engineer. Harry Truman integrated the military by executive order, way ahead of society in general.

Bill Clinton would have integrated gays in the military by executive order had congress not passed don’t ask don’t tell.

The military provides numerous benefits to its members: health care, mortgage subsidies, shopping subsidies for consumer goods, booze and cigarettes, etc…

[briansd1]

Good comments, Arraya.

The military is also a socialist command state in of itself.

The recruits are taken care of from enlistment to grave and told what to do. If they don’t obey orders, they get punished.

The military is also what conservatives would call a social engineer. Harry Truman integrated the military by executive order, way ahead of society in general.

Bill Clinton would have integrated gays in the military by executive order had congress not passed don’t ask don’t tell.

The military provides numerous benefits to its members: health care, mortgage subsidies, shopping subsidies for consumer goods, booze and cigarettes, etc…

[Author]

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