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CA renter.
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January 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM #20921January 16, 2014 at 1:41 AM #769794
CA renter
ParticipantThe divorce industry has grown because divorce has become much more prevalent. The risks taken by both people are very great when they decide to get married and/or have children together. Once done, it is almost impossible to undo. “Moving on” is a naive cliche. Once you have children with somebody else, and especially if one parent has spent decades caring for them (for free, no less), then your lives will be inextricably intertwined until death. Divorce will not sever the ties, no matter how badly one desires it to do so.
“Divorce reform” is a gender-biased, agenda-driven movement to push almost all of the risks of marriage and divorce onto stay-at-home parents. NOBODY is better off after divorce since the pie is always being divided into smaller pieces for EVERYBODY, no matter what.
When discussing divorce reform, one has to take into consideration the different assets being brought into a marriage by both parties (it’s not just money and financial assets that are at stake when one decides to marry), as well as the long-term risks being borne by both parties. Men and women bring different things to a marriage, but the court system (and divorce reform proponents) likes to pretend that everything is equal between the sexes throughout the years. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The “divorce reform” movement exists largely because of second (and subsequent) wives and even girlfriends. This is a highly contentious issue being driven by people who are often responsible for causing those divorces in the first place.
http://www.sandiegodivorceattorneysblog.com/2013/06/spousal-support-reform-second-wives-club.html
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11274949.htm
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FWIW, I could agree with certain aspects of divorce reform, but only if we could eliminate “no fault” divorce and determine financial awards (including alimony) based on findings of fault. I do not think that faithful, hard-working, devoted husband should have to pay alimony or lose child custody to women who were adulterous, etc., and vice versa.
January 16, 2014 at 1:16 PM #769799FlyerInHi
GuestCAr, your post is full of illogic.
Of course, men and women should treated equally under the law.
What are “faults” anyway? Unless faults are defined by law, they should not even be given consideration.
January 16, 2014 at 4:40 PM #769803ParticipantBrian, you’ll never get the logic because you are clueless about relationships, much less marriage.
It’s cool that you don’t want to get married or have kids; that is entirely your option, and there is no right or wrong there, IMO. Where you’re wrong is thinking that both sexes bring the same things to a marriage. While I think that the value of what each sex brings is equal, these things are not the same; they are complementary.
The problem lies in the fact that a woman’s contribution to a marriage is front-loaded, while a man’s contribution is back-loaded. Women will often give up their most valuable assets (youth, beauty, fertility) to a man because there is an implicit and explicit understanding that her husband will contribute his most valuable assets (wealth/financial stability, power, social status) in the back half of the marriage. All too often, men take everything of value to a woman, and when it’s his turn to keep his end of the bargain, he backs away from the deal. It’s essentially a deferred compensation agreement, and alimony is a way to make sure that men fulfill their end of the agreement.
If we want to continue down the road of men becoming more and more irrelevant where women are concerned, we will start to see larger-scale societal shifts, like women forming female-centric networks to raise their families, and children bearing their mothers’ names instead of bearing the names of their sperm donors (which is what men become if there is no meaningful relationship with the mothers). We would also see more and more men using surrogates…which will have to be fully legalized, deregulated, and made for profit in order to handle the increased demand (and the use of a woman’s body should never be free, anyway).
Not saying I like how women and men are valued in society (I hate it), but until things genuinely change, we have to deal with what we’ve got. Maybe the artificial uterus will enable us to get to a point where things are more equitable.
January 16, 2014 at 4:45 PM #769804Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]CAr, your post is full of illogic.
Of course, men and women should treated equally under the law.
What are “faults” anyway? Unless faults are defined by law, they should not even be given consideration.[/quote]
Equality and equitability are not the same thing.
Adultery and abuse have been illegal throughout most of human history. Drug/alcohol abuse has been illegal or been used as legal grounds for divorce for much of history, as well.
I’m all for people coming up with their own terms before getting married (personally, we have a nuptial agreement stipulating faults, among other things, and how this would affect the distribution of assets and alimony awards). Whatever people decide, the terms of the marriage and possible dissolution of marriage should be clear from the very beginning.
January 16, 2014 at 8:05 PM #769806Guest[quote=CA renter]
I do not think that faithful, hard-working, devoted husband should have to pay alimony or lose child custody to women who were adulterous, etc., and vice versa.[/quote]Some of your statements make so sense because your feelings are not the law.
I wonder how you’d write that into law. You’d have to define faithfulness, hard work and devotion.
Plus what does adultery have to do with financial need for alimony? And what does adultery have to do with devotion to children or child rearing suitability?
Her’s a scenario. Dad works his ass off to pay for the kids’ eduction. He’s always on business travel.
Mom is stay at home for the last 10 years and is raising 2 kids. She feels lonely and has an affair.
Dad discovers the affair and he’s feeling vengeful. He wants a divorce.
Under your law, mom gets nothing. Dad gets custody of the kids.
January 16, 2014 at 8:39 PM #769807Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=CA renter]
I do not think that faithful, hard-working, devoted husband should have to pay alimony or lose child custody to women who were adulterous, etc., and vice versa.[/quote]Some of your statements make so sense because your feelings are not the law.
I wonder how you’d write that into law. You’d have to define faithfulness, hard work and devotion.
Plus what does adultery have to do with financial need for alimony? And what does adultery have to do with devotion to children or child rearing suitability?
Her’s a scenario. Dad works his ass off to pay for the kids’ eduction. He’s always on business travel.
Mom is stay at home for the last 10 years and is raising 2 kids. She feels lonely and has an affair.
Dad discovers the affair and he’s feeling vengeful. He wants a divorce.
Under your law, mom gets nothing. Dad gets custody of the kids.[/quote]
Most married people fully understand what “faithfulness” and “adultery” mean.
As for the issue of fault in a divorce, each couple should have to decide for themselves what they are willing or unwilling to accept in marriage. I think an argument could be made that all people should have to sign a contract of sorts before getting married.
January 16, 2014 at 9:07 PM #769808scaredyclassic
ParticipantFamily court judges don’t know.
To you who are married I say stay married.
Work it out!!!
Try to be decent.
It’s not getting better.
January 17, 2014 at 3:29 AM #769810Participant[quote=6packscaredy]Family court judges don’t know.
To you who are married I say stay married.
Work it out!!!
Try to be decent.
It’s not getting better.[/quote]
Could not agree more. More often than not, the grass is NOT greener “on the other side.”
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Does divorce typically make adults happier than staying in an unhappy marriage? Surprisingly, the answer is no, according to the data published in this report.
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Was this true? Did unhappy spouses who divorced reap significant psychological and emotional benefits? Surprisingly, in this study, the answer was no. Among our findings:
Unhappily married adults who divorced or separated were no happier, on average, than unhappily married adults who stayed married. Even unhappy spouses who had divorced and remarried were no happier, on average, than unhappy spouses who stayed married. This was true even after controlling for race, age, gender, and income.
Divorce did not reduce symptoms of depression for unhappily married adults, or raise their self-esteem, or increase their sense of mastery, on average, compared to unhappy spouses who stayed married. This was true even after controlling for race, age, gender, and income.
The vast majority of divorces (74 percent) happened to adults who had been happily married five years previously. In this group, divorce was associated with dramatic declines in happiness and psychological well-being compared to those who stayed married.
Unhappy marriages were less common than unhappy spouses. Three out of four unhappily married adults were married to someone who was happy with the marriage.[2]
Staying married did not typically trap unhappy spouses in violent relationships. Eighty-six percent of unhappily married adults reported no violence in their relationship (including 77 percent of unhappy spouses who later divorced or separated). Ninety-three percent of unhappy spouses who avoided divorce reported no violence in their marriage five years later.
Two out of three unhappily married adults who avoided divorce or separation ended up happily married five years later. Just one out of five of unhappy spouses who divorced or separated had happily remarried in the same time period.
January 17, 2014 at 6:24 AM #769811SK in CV
Participant[quote=6packscaredy]Family court judges don’t know.
To you who are married I say stay married.
Work it out!!!
Try to be decent.
It’s not getting better.[/quote]
You have no idea.
Sometimes it has nothing to do with being decent.
Sometimes it does get better after divorce. Much better.
January 17, 2014 at 8:55 AM #769812ParticipantSelect spouse carefully.
Stay married.
January 17, 2014 at 11:05 AM #769819Guest[quote=6packscaredy]Select spouse carefully.
Stay married.[/quote]
I agree but the process is lopsided.
Marriage is too easy compared to divorce. The careful selection part is not encouraged.
There are vested interest in making marriage easy but divorce difficult.
January 17, 2014 at 12:02 PM #769821davelj
Participant[quote=CA renter] All too often, men take everything of value to a woman, and when it’s his turn to keep his end of the bargain, he backs away from the deal. It’s essentially a deferred compensation agreement, and alimony is a way to make sure that men fulfill their end of the agreement.
[/quote]This sounds suspiciously like another type of commercial arrangement that occurs between certain men and women, just over a longer period of time…
January 17, 2014 at 12:16 PM #769822kev374
Participant[quote=CA renter]
The problem lies in the fact that a woman’s contribution to a marriage is front-loaded, while a man’s contribution is back-loaded. Women will often give up their most valuable assets (youth, beauty, fertility) to a man because there is an implicit and explicit understanding that her husband will contribute his most valuable assets (wealth/financial stability, power, social status) in the back half of the marriage. [/quote]Utter feminist garbage and it’s absolutely ridiculous and absurd.
Youth, beauty and fertility – women demand these attributes of men as well. Women will refuse to marry men who they do not find attractive so why do you think a woman is getting a bad deal in terms of attraction? A woman expects a man to give her children so she expects fertility from a man as well. And a woman demands a man be as youthful as her so the expectations are same here.
The bottom line is women want it all AND MORE from a man. Not only do women demand youth, beauty and fertility from a man they ALSO in addition DEMAND financial resources whereas a vast majority of men will not expect a woman to have money IF she has beauty.
January 17, 2014 at 12:33 PM #769823GuestI don’t find CAr’s comments to be feminist at all.
A true feminist would want full equality and full liberation from the oppression of traditions.
CAr wants cultural preservation and the perpetuation a certain perceived “wholesome” way of life. She wants to punish adultery because she views it mainly as a male issue. In the process, she’s willing to throw her real feminist sisters under the bus.
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