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October 20, 2014 at 6:53 PM #779080October 20, 2014 at 7:49 PM #779086
nla
Participant[quote=joec]I agree that if you had to pay your whole way to a private ivy or out of state school, then the choice to go is much lower. The hope is that your kid is desired by the school (the only reason for them to go I suppose) and they will offer some type of reduced cost or at least some lower cost aid based on income…With how much these schools cost, I’d assume most normal, non 1% will qualify for some decent aid. I think the percentages are very high for ivys as to who needs/gets aid.[/quote]
My daughter is a freshmen at an Ivy. Ivy League schools and most top schools (Stanford, Caltech, MIT) DOES NOT give any merit aid. (In fact all Ivy League schools does not give athletic scholarship.) Only need-based aid. If your HH income is about 200K+/year plus decent savings, you are full pay or near full pay. The most generous are HYPS wherein, they still give you a little bit of aid even if your income is more than 220K. At the other end of the spectrum: if your HH income is below 70K, you are free or almost free to attend. The trick though is to get in.
October 21, 2014 at 2:19 PM #779148Dukehorn
ParticipantI would beg to differ on whether it’s that important to start at an Ivy if you have plans for grad school or professional school. What’s important is to end up at an Ivy type institution eventually. What’s the point of shelling out 160k at an Ivy if you can’t get into med school (see my younger brother)? I went to a public university on scholarship and then into a top 10 law school with my first year covered by a scholarship.
May 10, 2016 at 4:41 PM #797425bearishgurl
ParticipantWell, according to my kid who is currently finishing their sophomore year at a CSU in LA County, their close friends who started at SWC (a CC in Chula Vista, CA) have all splintered away, except for one, who has followed all the rules for CSU admission has now been told by their advisor they won’t be accepted into SDSU as a junior with their soon-to-be-earned “Associate of Transfer Degree” unless they have a CC overall GPA of 3.94!
http://adegreewithaguarantee.com/
So, now that the bar for entry for SDSU as a local transfer student is even higher (it was a ~3.6 GPA two years ago), this student/good friend of my kid’s now has a “worthless” AST Degree (not applicable to any occupations such as medical billing assistant, paralegal or Network Technician, etc) unless they are able to afford housing to attend a CSU campus out-of-county. So the kid has decided to shadow a parent who is a RE salesperson after they graduate this month and study for their RE salesperson license (which they could have done right out of HS). The other HS friends of my kid who attend SWC out of HS (predictably) went down to part-time (even one class at a time) this year and increased their work hours (local, min wage jobs) due partly to the inability to get the classes they needed when they needed them and partly to not being able to see a way out of the county to attend university (without parents/relatives being able to help). One friend, who made the Dean’s list at SWC last year (in their freshman year) decided to chuck all their freshman-year credits last fall and enrolled in a one-year Medical Assistant ROP program at SWC so she could start working FT ASAP and get benefits. NONE of these kids have any desire to carry student loans.
I just ran across this piece today:
Have UC schools harmed local students with their admission policies? The regents weigh in
Teresa Watanabe
May 10, 2016 5:00 AMUniversity of California regents are expected to weigh in Tuesday on a scathing state audit that said UC schools have harmed local students by admitting too many out-of-state and international applicants.
UC President Janet Napolitano blasted the audit when it was released in March. She said it was unfair and glossed over the fact that out-of-state students supported the 10-campus system by paying higher tuition than California residents — an extra $728 million in fiscal year 2014 alone. That money helped campuses increase enrollment of in-state students despite the fact that the system lost one-third of its funding after the 2008 recession, Napolitano said.
“In many instances throughout the report, (the audit) drew inferences or conclusions, or limited its findings to a subset of data, that led to a critical misunderstanding of the facts,” according to a memo from Napolitano’s office to the regents.
But state auditor Elaine Howle has stood by the report. The audit offers several recommendations for changing UC’s admissions policies, including stricter entrance requirements for nonresident students, a cap on their enrollment and more focus on recruiting Californians — particularly African Americans, Latinos and other underrepresented minorities.
UC officials are required to report their progress in implementing the recommendations after 60 days, six months and one year from the report date. The regents will get their first chance to publicly discuss the issue at their three-day meeting, which opens Tuesday in Sacramento….
(emphasis mine)
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-regents-preview-audit-20160510-story.html
Are we surprised?? President Napolitano has the gall to admit what we all have known for a l-o-o-o-ong time. That is, the UC favors OOC and OOS students because they pay the full ride, plain and simple. Money talks and other stuff walks …. nevermind that a large portion of in-state UC applicants’ parents pay a boatload of taxes to this state.
It’s unfortunate, because other states give preference to in-state student applications, especially in attempt to give rural dwellers a fair shake at acceptance, since they didn’t have nearly as many HS opportunities as city dwellers (i.e. oppty for CC credits, AP credits, IB contract, etc). Unlike other states’ flagship universities, with just 1-3 campuses, UC has TEN CAMPUSES! In my mind, there is no excuse for giving away as many slots as they are to foreign and out-of-state applicants!
I hope the UC is put on the hotseat with the state audit to change their ways but somehow, I think the Regents will find a way around it by saying that they strived mightily to admit more “minority resident applicants,” but alas, only a few were “qualified.”
UC admission, more and more, is all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
May 10, 2016 at 5:01 PM #797426ParticipantI vote that CA re-institute the writing portion on the SAT, ACT and TOEFL and apply the applicant’s essay/writing score to their composite score.
This is how it was done when I took the ACT … way back in the day.
This would most certainly weed out thousands of Chinese applicants, who would fail this portion miserably, causing their composite scores to plummet.
Too bad … so sad.
May 10, 2016 at 5:14 PM #797428ParticipantHere’s 2 articles on the recent state audit of UC Admissions (linked in the article below):
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-audit-admissions-20160328-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/uc-audit-20160329-snap-htmlstory.html
May 10, 2016 at 5:59 PM #797430joec
Participant[quote=bearishgurl]I vote that CA re-institute the writing portion on the SAT, ACT and TOEFL and apply the applicant’s essay/writing score to their composite score.
This is how it was done when I took the ACT … way back in the day.
This would most certainly weed out thousands of Chinese applicants, who would fail this portion miserably, causing their composite scores to plummet.
Too bad … so sad.[/quote]
If you think this will happen, I honestly think you would be surprised as the “thousands of Chinese applicants” you state would probably do BETTER than a lot of the Americans applying for the UC or State school spots.
In America, why is it that EVERY english word spelling bee annual contest is won by some Indian guy/gal?
http://spellingbee.com/champions-and-their-winning-wordsLooks like an American name hasn’t won since 2007.
My mom visited China a while back and there are plenty of Chinese who speak English better than many Americans. Again, these are probably the wealthier types, but there are lots of those.
I remember back in my day at UC, I had a college roommate who was not even studying engr, but could do ALL the math/physics stuff I took even though he was just an Econ major. At the end of the day, education/school is taken TONS more seriously in all the Asian countries and competing with that here will require a education/union/teacher revolution which isn’t going to happen.
At the end of the day, those “Chinese” just want to study at UCs or most elite colleges more than the “typical” American I believe.
Also, with how things are, I recommend people avoid JC if they can or try to go to a private school with some grants/aid to balance the cost.
May 10, 2016 at 6:11 PM #797433no_such_reality
ParticipantIsn’t this a side effect of our primary education system being geared towards everyone goes to college?
Cali has 500,000 kids per grade. At 60% college attempt rate, the UC and CS systems need 1.5 million seats to accommodate.
They currently have enrollment around 700,0000
May 10, 2016 at 7:39 PM #797437
CoronitaParticipant.
May 10, 2016 at 8:07 PM #797439FlyerInHi
GuestHaha, Joec, maybe bearish has forgotten that for Indians, English is a native language. Essay writting might give Indians a boost.
I have a friend form Bejing who graduated from a top American university. She was just in SD for a urologist conference over the weekend. She’s read all the classics and has impeccable English. She has a foreign accent that some people might find annoying, but grammar and syntax are flawless. Good English requires a lot reading of literature, and that’s something American kids don’t like to do.
May 10, 2016 at 8:19 PM #797440Participant[quote=flu][quote=bearishgurl]I vote that CA re-institute the writing portion on the SAT, ACT and TOEFL and apply the applicant’s essay/writing score to their composite score.
This is how it was done when I took the ACT … way back in the day.
This would most certainly weed out thousands of Chinese applicants, who would fail this portion miserably, causing their composite scores to plummet.
Too bad … so sad.[/quote]
So you took the ACT back then for college and you think you did better than most foreigners. So how did college work out for you BG?[/quote]Yeah, I took it … and scored a 31. I was admitted to CU – Boulder as well as Cal. But I didn’t end up attending university as it turned out to be too expensive for me and I had no one to help. It turned out my parent made $940 too much in my junior year of HS (their latest tax return) for me to qualify for a “BEOG grant” (nka “Pell Grant”) as a freshman (which was only worth ~$2K year anyway, and would not have been enough to help with room/board). Student loans did not exist at that time as they do today.
I elected to work FT right out of HS and go to state college in the city where I lived and worked. I ended up never graduating from CC after attending 4 state colleges/CCs in two states (one class at a time but not every semester) over a period of about 15 years, all while working FT. But most of my classes were occupational and did help me on the job, so they weren’t wasted. I then got a paralegal certificate (1 yr 500-level program) later in life. I was the only one in my program who did not have a bachelor degree but was admitted based upon atty recommendations from my long work record in the field.
Back then, US university seats occupied by foreign students were of mostly males from oil-rich middle eastern countries who were majoring in engineering. Yes, their fathers paid the full ride for them to attend US universities such as OU (petroleum engineering), CU Boulder and Cal, including renting them nice local apts or even houses for off-campus housing. These families didn’t waste money on a daughter’s education because females in those countries were brought up to be oppressed, covered up and subservient to men. The US didn’t have the influx of Asian university students as there is today. The few foreign students attending US universities were nearly all middle-eastern males.
My personal experience and the fact that CA CC’s are no longer funded well enough to guarantee a student the correct classes to transfer to a UC/CSU in 2 years (or even guarantee them admission into a UC/CSU at all) are the reasons why I pushed my kids directly into university (out of county) after HS. It was the right choice. In CA, it’s MUCH easier to get accepted as a freshman straight out of HS than it is as an incoming junior out of CC (ESP if your parent(s) elect to NOT file a FAFSA). My kid(s) are successful and my youngest is on their way to being successful in life.
May 10, 2016 at 9:27 PM #797442an
Participant[quote=bearishgurl]I vote that CA re-institute the writing portion on the SAT, ACT and TOEFL and apply the applicant’s essay/writing score to their composite score.
This is how it was done when I took the ACT … way back in the day.
This would most certainly weed out thousands of Chinese applicants, who would fail this portion miserably, causing their composite scores to plummet.
Too bad … so sad.[/quote]
LoL, in your dreams.May 10, 2016 at 9:46 PM #797443Participant[quote=no_such_reality]Isn’t this a side effect of our primary education system being geared towards everyone goes to college?
Cali has 500,000 kids per grade. At 60% college attempt rate, the UC and CS systems need 1.5 million seats to accommodate.
They currently have enrollment around 700,0000[/quote]
Well, if the same percentage holds true for the CSU, that means that roughly 15.5% of 700,000 public university seats in the state (108,500) are going to out-of-state and out-of-country students each and every year with incoming OOS/OOC applicants replacing those who graduated. (I suspect this percentage varies wildly by campus as I can’t imagine OOC and OOS applicants are clamoring to get accepted into campuses located in CA’s “armpits,” (ex: Bakersfield, Fresno, Merced and Chico).)
The story below is ridiculous. By all accounts, this applicant should have gotten accepted into the UC … yes, even to the “flagships.” Perhaps she was only offered Merced for being in the top 9% of her class and so elected to take the 4-year full-ride scholarship offered to her on the east coast … and I don’t blame her. She’s apparently “good enough for full ride at an Ivy” … but not given the time of day at UC in her home state!
UC schools harm local students by admitting so many from out of state, audit finds
As a student at South Pasadena High School, Katherine Uriarte aced six Advanced Placement classes, got top scores on her ACT, served in student government and nailed a summer internship at Caltech.
It wasn’t enough to get into UCLA or UC Berkeley.
The daughter of a Mexican immigrant, Uriarte still realized her dream of becoming the first in her family to go to college. She is now a freshman at Columbia University in New York City with a full-ride scholarship from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. But she said she felt Californians like herself were losing out to a growing tide of students from other states and countries who want to go to UC schools.
“I think they should prioritize California students,” she said.
A new state audit agrees ….
UC officials insist that nonresident students don’t displace Californians. Instead, they say, the nearly $25,000 in additional tuition that nonresidents pay each year has allowed UC to enroll thousands more California students than the system could otherwise afford. Tuition and fees for out-of-state students totaled $38,108 this academic year, compared with $13,400 for in-state students.
Without the extra money from out-of-state students, Californians could have faced an additional $2,500 in tuition — a roughly 20% boost, Napolitano said.
Tuition and fees have doubled since the 2008 recession, but have remained flat — except for one fee increase — for the last five years as part of an agreement between Napolitano and Gov. Jerry Brown that sent more than $3 billion in new dollars to the UC system.
In a separate deal, UC agreed to admit 5,000 additional California students for the fall 2016 term in exchange for $25 million more and a continued lid on tuition increases.
“Providing adequate state funding is the best way to increase the number of California students enrolled at UC,” said a special report on admissions and finances released Tuesday by university officials in anticipation of the audit…
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-audit-admissions-20160328-story.html
Essentially, the UC is claiming that they need more state funding to admit in-state residents and the presence of OOS/OOC students actually make it possible for them to admit more in-state residents. It seems here as if our native Cali kids are considered “charity cases” or “less than optimal picks for admission” by the Regents due to our much lower tuition fees than OOS students pay (all students pay the same campus fees and UC/CSU fees).
By the Numbers Audit accuses University of California of favoring out-of-state students
[img_assist|nid=25824|title=In state chart|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=49]
A scathing new state audit accuses the University of California of hurting in-state students by increasingly admitting applicants from outside the Golden State. The proportion of out-of-state students has grown from about 5% of the student body in 2008 to 15.5% today.
More in-state applicants
Despite an increase in applications from in-state students, the University of California’s resident undergraduate enrollment has remained flat.
[img_assist|nid=25825|title=Out of state chart|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=45]
Out-of-state-undergrads on the rise
The number of out-of-state undergraduates has more than tripled since 2008. UC officials said they increased nonresident students, who pay an extra $25,000 in tuition per year, to allow them to accept more Californians in the face of massive budget cuts imposed after the 2008 recession.
Here’s the actual report of the audit:
May 10, 2016 at 9:50 PM #797445Participant[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]I vote that CA re-institute the writing portion on the SAT, ACT and TOEFL and apply the applicant’s essay/writing score to their composite score.
This is how it was done when I took the ACT … way back in the day.
This would most certainly weed out thousands of Chinese applicants, who would fail this portion miserably, causing their composite scores to plummet.
Too bad … so sad.[/quote]
LoL, in your dreams.[/quote]So, AN, are you saying here that you don’t think the essay portion of the SAT/ACT will ever be brought back into consideration for admission into the UC/CSU?
May 10, 2016 at 10:12 PM #797447ParticipantUmm, Napolitano resigned as Secretary of the Dept of Homeland Security under Pres. Obama in 2013, after 4 years service …. only to immediately take the post of President of the UC!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Napolitano
She has quite the colorful and rather “distinguished” background.
She voluntarily? leaves one top job which focused on keeping foreigners OUT of the country only to migrate over to Cali and take UC’s top job making sure the seats at its most coveted campuses are regularly filled up with …. drumroll … foreign students. Go figure.
The Regents must have hired her “skill-sets” for the sole purpose of bringing in more OOS tuition $$$ as they had already been gearing up their admissions of far more foreign student-applicants by the time of her hire.
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