Car advice. New long commute

[scaredyclassic]

Need a new car for a much longer commute. Just spent 3k for smog repairs on a 10 year old Honda. Want to keep that as a 2nd car as I don’t have faith in it anymore.

Not under consideration:

Tesla: fuck Elon musk
Foreign nightmares: bmw, or anything the dealer wants 400 for an oil change
Pickup trucks
Hummer

Tried to buy a leaf, but can’t find anything less than 3k over sticker.

But maybe now is the contrarian time to buy a gas car, with a move to electric?

Lexus SUV?
Hyundai Tucson?
Toyota Highlander?

I hate being gouged due to low supply . I also feel maybe I need a big safe car to commute a lot.

Advice?

[barnaby33]

A Chevy Bolt could be a great option depending on commute length and your ability to charge it each day. Large cars are a waste of energy and resources, but they are comfy.
Josh

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=barnaby33]A Chevy Bolt could be a great option depending on commute length and your ability to charge it each day. Large cars are a waste of energy and resources, but they are comfy.
Josh[/quote]

This does look inexpensive for the car.

[Coronita]

If I had to get something it would probably be a Hyundai Ioniq 5

If you don’t want to get gouged with a Toyota Highlander or Lexus RX or NX SUV….

You can consider getting yourself a Mazda CX5. They are pretty nice inside, and have pretty good gas mileage. Slightly underpowered, but good fit and finish and decent reliability. Size-wise, the CX5 is roughly the size of a RAV4

Galpin Mazda has over 61 CX5’s in stock. So they aren’t going to be marked up.

[utcsox]

[quote=Coronita]If I had to get something it would probably be a Hyundai Ioniq 5

If you don’t want to get gouged with a Toyota Highlander or Lexus RX or NX SUV….

You can consider getting yourself a Mazda CX5. They are pretty nice inside, and have pretty good gas mileage. Slightly underpowered, but good fit and finish and decent reliability. Size-wise, the CX5 is roughly the size of a RAV4

Galpin Mazda has over 61 CX5’s in stock. So they aren’t going to be marked up.[/quote]

How about Honda CR-V and Mazda CX-50?

[Coronita]

[quote=utcsox][quote=Coronita]If I had to get something it would probably be a Hyundai Ioniq 5

If you don’t want to get gouged with a Toyota Highlander or Lexus RX or NX SUV….

You can consider getting yourself a Mazda CX5. They are pretty nice inside, and have pretty good gas mileage. Slightly underpowered, but good fit and finish and decent reliability. Size-wise, the CX5 is roughly the size of a RAV4

Galpin Mazda has over 61 CX5’s in stock. So they aren’t going to be marked up.[/quote]

How about Honda CR-V and Mazda CX-50?[/quote]

CX-50 is basically an upscale version of the Cx-5 that sits slightly lower to the ground and has a more off-road look, kinda like suburu. One of these probably eventually be discontinued, I don’t see why they would want to make both models..I guess they’ll figure out which one sells better. I just mentioned the CX5 to scaredy since if he was going to go “cheaper”, he probably won’t care between the two and the price in the cx5 is slightly less.

Its a personal preference between the two imho. I would prefer the CX-50 over the CX-5 or Honda CRV or RAV4. The CRV and RAV4 are good cars. Slightly more room in the back in the CRV and RAV4m It’s just there is a premium price on them because they are so much in demand and you can’t wheel and deal on them as much. Mazda is a smaller car company and their reliability is pretty good on the SUVs. Only problem is you can’t get one that is a hybrid unlike the RAV4.

The prices people are paying for the RAV4, it’s not that faroff from the sister car, Lexus NX.

One use to be able to get a cx5 for mid $25k out the door. But they’ve gone up a bit because they pack more things into the car now as standard.. I think they all come standard with AWD now, which isn’t useful for San Diego, but could come in handy for Big Bear.

I think RAV and CRV still come with front wheel drive as stand and a extra if you want AWD.

Suburus are very capable cars, but I was told their boxer engines aren’t the most reliable and aren’t as easy to work on. I don’t know first hand though always wanted a wrx sti.

Porsches supposedly are pretty reliable. But they are just a lot to upkeep.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=utcsox][quote=Coronita]If I had to get something it would probably be a Hyundai Ioniq 5

If you don’t want to get gouged with a Toyota Highlander or Lexus RX or NX SUV….

You can consider getting yourself a Mazda CX5. They are pretty nice inside, and have pretty good gas mileage. Slightly underpowered, but good fit and finish and decent reliability. Size-wise, the CX5 is roughly the size of a RAV4

Galpin Mazda has over 61 CX5’s in stock. So they aren’t going to be marked up.[/quote]

How about Honda CR-V and Mazda CX-50?[/quote]

I like the cx-50. I’m going between 30-50 miles one way, depending. The 30 miler I might be able to ebike once a week or so.

. I’ve basically owned 2 personal cars in 35 years (civic, 24 years, Accord, 11 years) not counting minivan my wife insisted on, and my dad’s camry I had a few years my wife used that died of power steering failure.

But now that I’m turning 60 I’m thinking maybe I want to become a guy who trades cars in every 3 to 5 years. Why am I driving shitty old cars? It’s some kind of weird mental condition political statement obstinacy cheapness. If money and environmental consciousness weren’t an issue, I’d prefer to have new, safe, reliable car.

The earth is toast anyway. Why not just trade shit in? Or lease? The money isn’t critical. But I still can’t pay 80k for a rivian.

My kid likes Mazda. I’ll test drive a cx-50.
I’d like to see if I could sleep in it . Or perhaps I should just suck it up and pay the leaf premium. Probably make up the extra in gas costs in a couple years?

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic] But now that I’m turning 60 I’m thinking maybe I want to become a guy who trades cars in every 3 to 5 years. Why am I driving shitty old cars? It’s some kind of weird mental condition political statement obstinacy cheapness. If money and environmental consciousness weren’t an issue, I’d prefer to have new, safe, reliable car.

[/quote]

There’s nothing wrong with leasing and trading in a car every 3 years. Especially when you’re already 60 and financially established. And then you really dont need to worry about reliability and maintenance. In many ways it makes more sense to do that than paying for maintenance and repairs post warranty.

And besides, lots are car companies are moving towards the subscription, pay per monthly usage anyway.

Take BMW for instance. In Europe, you can now buy heated seats on a subscription bases for an additional $18/month

https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature

Oh, god don’t even get me started with this…lol…

But seriously, you’re old enough to just try different cars out and not deal with the headache of keeping things long term. You can afford to do this.

Leasing is a lot like dating a high maintenance trophy GF/BF… If you just want to perpetually date the latest and greatest trophy GF/BF without any sort of long term commitments like marriage, then it probably makes sense just to lease and only be committed to 3 years each time versus buying and being commited to one vehicle for 20-30+years. During that 3 year lease, everyone is on their best behavior, and the amount of demand from your wallet is only limited to routine maintenance (no different then occasional exotic meals and trips)…The problems with these high maintenance exotics is the longer they are with you, the more demanding and pain in the ass they get…and when you’re out of warranty, nobody is no longer obligated to be on their best behavior… whoa you better have some pretty deep pockets…. But if you’re leasing. you then you simple trade in the previous model for a brand new one and let someone else who wants to buy preowned previous model….deal with all the maintenance issues when they are past their prime and start to break down and complain over issues….

Of course, if you do insist on a 20-30 year commitment, you probably want to just find someone a reliable Toyota, Honda, or Mazda. They do make sporty versions of Toyota, Honda, and Mazdas too that gets you to probably 80-90% of the fun, without being a royal pain in the ass too.

[phaster]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Need a new car for a much longer commute. Just spent 3k for smog repairs on a 10 year old Honda. Want to keep that as a 2nd car as I don’t have faith in it anymore.

Not under consideration:

Tesla: fuck Elon musk
Foreign nightmares: bmw, or anything the dealer wants 400 for an oil change
Pickup trucks
Hummer

Tried to buy a leaf, but can’t find anything less than 3k over sticker.

But maybe now is the contrarian time to buy a gas car, with a move to electric?

Lexus SUV?
Hyundai Tucson?
Toyota Highlander?

I hate being gouged due to low supply . I also feel maybe I need a big safe car to commute a lot.

Advice?[/quote]

toyota/lexus because of fit/finish/reliability

hybrid so it won’t waste gas not really going anywhere very fast in stop/go rush hour traffic jams (or in an urban area)

personally would go for a sedan over a higher stance crossover/SUV which is less fuel efficient

if you are spending lots of time in a vehicle, I’d opt of luxury touches to be “comfortable” (hence less stressed)

so given the above leads me to suggest,…

https://www.lexus.com/models/ES-hybrid

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=phaster][quote=scaredyclassic]Need a new car for a much longer commute. Just spent 3k for smog repairs on a 10 year old Honda. Want to keep that as a 2nd car as I don’t have faith in it anymore.

Not under consideration:

Tesla: fuck Elon musk
Foreign nightmares: bmw, or anything the dealer wants 400 for an oil change
Pickup trucks
Hummer

Tried to buy a leaf, but can’t find anything less than 3k over sticker.

But maybe now is the contrarian time to buy a gas car, with a move to electric?

Lexus SUV?
Hyundai Tucson?
Toyota Highlander?

I hate being gouged due to low supply . I also feel maybe I need a big safe car to commute a lot.

Advice?[/quote]

toyota/lexus because of fit/finish/reliability

hybrid so it won’t waste gas not really going anywhere very fast in stop/go rush hour traffic jams (or in an urban area)

personally would go for a sedan over a higher stance crossover/SUV which is less fuel efficient

if you are spending lots of time in a vehicle, I’d opt of luxury touches to be “comfortable” (hence less stressed)

so given the above leads me to suggest,…

https://www.lexus.com/models/ES-hybrid%5B/quote%5D

Will a Lexus make me seem like an old white guy?

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]

Will a Lexus make me seem like an old white guy?[/quote]

Yes. But just “old white guy”…

…not “Grandpa old white guy”…unless you buy the Lexus LS….

[svelte]

[quote=Coronita][quote=scaredyclassic]

Will a Lexus make me seem like an old white guy?[/quote]

Yes. But just “old white guy”…

…not “Grandpa old white guy”…unless you buy the Lexus LS….[/quote]

Are you kidding? All Lexus owners I know are retirement age with little white dogs! Definitely grandpa territory!

[scaredyclassic]

It’s all so complex, maybe I should just drive my old car.

I’ve never negotiated a lease. Are advertised lease deals negotiable in reality

[svelte]

[quote=scaredyclassic]It’s all so complex, maybe I should just drive my old car.

I’ve never negotiated a lease. Are advertised lease deals negotiable in reality[/quote]

People get deep down in the formulas and all that.

I don’t bother. I go dealer to dealer and let them quote me their best deal on the car I want. Then I go home. Within a week they are calling to see if I’ve decided and I stay noncommittal and ask for a better price.

Sooner or later it becomes clear which car I want and which price I can live with so I go with it.

We’ve only started leasing in the past 6 years. One lease we turned back in and we are getting ready to buy the car on the current lease. After 3 years with the car we’ve decided we want to keep it.

Our next car will be electric and we’ll no doubt lease that one. I’m not going to buy right now as prices are dropping and we are in no hurry. We’ll wait until unemployment rises and car lots are brimming with unsold cars. Then we will be in the best negotiating position. I figure that is about a year off.

[Coronita]

[quote=svelte][quote=scaredyclassic]It’s all so complex, maybe I should just drive my old car.

I’ve never negotiated a lease. Are advertised lease deals negotiable in reality[/quote]

People get deep down in the formulas and all that.

I don’t bother. I go dealer to dealer and let them quote me their best deal on the car I want. Then I go home. Within a week they are calling to see if I’ve decided and I stay noncommittal and ask for a better price.

Sooner or later it becomes clear which car I want and which price I can live with so I go with it.

We’ve only started leasing in the past 6 years. One lease we turned back in and we are getting ready to buy the car on the current lease. After 3 years with the car we’ve decided we want to keep it.

Our next car will be electric and we’ll no doubt lease that one. I’m not going to buy right now as prices are dropping and we are in no hurry. We’ll wait until unemployment rises and car lots are brimming with unsold cars. Then we will be in the best negotiating position. I figure that is about a year off.[/quote]

To be fair, some car companies, like Tesla is a no-haggle policy, which is good.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=svelte][quote=scaredyclassic]It’s all so complex, maybe I should just drive my old car.

I’ve never negotiated a lease. Are advertised lease deals negotiable in reality[/quote]

People get deep down in the formulas and all that.

I don’t bother. I go dealer to dealer and let them quote me their best deal on the car I want. Then I go home. Within a week they are calling to see if I’ve decided and I stay noncommittal and ask for a better price.

Sooner or later it becomes clear which car I want and which price I can live with so I go with it.

We’ve only started leasing in the past 6 years. One lease we turned back in and we are getting ready to buy the car on the current lease. After 3 years with the car we’ve decided we want to keep it.

Our next car will be electric and we’ll no doubt lease that one. I’m not going to buy right now as prices are dropping and we are in no hurry. We’ll wait until unemployment rises and car lots are brimming with unsold cars. Then we will be in the best negotiating position. I figure that is about a year off.[/quote]

I guess I can wait a year. But I was thinking, if I lease, maybe it’d be good to keep my old car as backup, to keep total mileage down if necessary on the leased car, also just to have an extra car for visitors, breakdowns.

[svelte]

[quote=scaredyclassic]

I guess I can wait a year. But I was thinking, if I lease, maybe it’d be good to keep my old car as backup, to keep total mileage down if necessary on the leased car, also just to have an extra car for visitors, breakdowns.[/quote]

Absolutely! We do that quite often – keep the old car until we are absolutely convinced we won’t need it.

I just went into the Mach E configurator. To get one like we’d like (glass roof, bigger battery) I’m looking at over $60K, not the entry level $45K. Maybe I can do without the bigger battery, have to think about that.

Then I went to see what is in stock. Dealers are wanting $10K over MSRP! Yes I think I will wait a year…

[XBoxBoy]

I’m going to guess that this will be too expensive for our cheapskate Scaredy, but what about the Rivian SUV:

https://rivian.com/r1s

[Coronita]

[quote=XBoxBoy]I’m going to guess that this will be too expensive for our cheapskate Scaredy, but what about the Rivian SUV:

https://rivian.com/r1s%5B/quote%5D

I heard the space and reliability isn’t that great.

[sdrealtor]

I couldn’t imagine buying a new car that isn’t an EV or hybrid. It almost seems irresponsible

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=sdrealtor]I couldn’t imagine buying a new car that isn’t an EV or hybrid. It almost seems irresponsible[/quote]

It does. I find that attractive.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=Coronita][quote=XBoxBoy]I’m going to guess that this will be too expensive for our cheapskate Scaredy, but what about the Rivian SUV:

https://rivian.com/r1s%5B/quote%5D

I heard the space and reliability isn’t that great.[/quote]

Meh, the jealous ramblings of Tesla owners who now regret funding Musk’s take over of Twitter.

[Coronita]

[quote=XBoxBoy][quote=Coronita][quote=XBoxBoy]I’m going to guess that this will be too expensive for our cheapskate Scaredy, but what about the Rivian SUV:

https://rivian.com/r1s%5B/quote%5D

I heard the space and reliability isn’t that great.[/quote]

Meh, the jealous ramblings of Tesla owners who now regret funding Musk’s take over of Twitter.[/quote]

Lol, I never bought a Tesla for me or my mom.

My friend was complaining about small fit and finish things, like the tailgate stuck and not opening, a minor chirp or squeak coming from the front suspension. And annoyed by a recall i think on a steering fasterner. And he was also complaining about the interior space, saying that it wasn’t as roomy as he was expecting for a truck. Then again, he’s the type of person that would be complaining about Tesla or anything else he got. First world problem ya know.

The way I looked at it is most electric cars are a generation 1 product, so there is going to be issues that come up and room for improvement, and as an earlier adopter, you’ll need to tolerate some minor inconvenience as they sort through it. That applies to all EV cars, with the exception of the Tesla, the Bolt, and the Leaf, which all had a jumpstart and a product that’s been tested by users a lot longer.

I’m not buying a Tesla product, even though they are good products. I’m holding on as long as I can for better options.

I do like the i4 M50, eTron, Taycan, and the Lucid Air has an amazing interior and specs. The only issue is I don’t trust BMW and Audi, buying an electric Porsche seems so wrong at so many different levels, and the Lucid Air is a bit out of my price range.

So I’m stuck with my ICE vehicles until a 5 of them die, or California bans them, lol.

[svelte]

You don’t say how long your commute is round-trip.

With the plethora of choices gas, hybrid, EV, that is an important consideration that needs to be factored into your decision.

[spdrun]

Ioniq 6 if you can actually get one — it’s an electric car that’s not a Tesla and isn’t another damn SUV/CUV. A car that doesn’t pretend to be “tough” and lacks the grub-like design that most CUVs have right now.

I love the quirky Citroen-like design.

[Hobie]

Flu: Very funny re trophy wife post! So true!

[Coronita]

Oh, forgot to mention. Another EV to consider is the Polestar 2. My neighbor has one. The styling is a little too Volvo-ish for my taste, but he swears it’s a great car.

https://www.polestar.com/us/polestar-2/

Geely has a long history of making electric cars in China.

[scaredyclassic]

I mean , jeez, if I kept a new car as long as my old civic, I’d be 84. Odds are my circumstances will be different. 3-5 years seems more reasonable. On the other hand I do hope to be working for at least another 15 years.

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I mean , jeez, if I kept a new car as long as my old civic, I’d be 84. Odds are my circumstances will be different. 3-5 years seems more reasonable. On the other hand I do hope to be working for at least another 15 years.[/quote]

I’m not sure you can keep most new cars these days as long as the cars of yesterday. They just aren’t built to be driven into the ground anymore. New cars have so much electronics and computers that when they go bad, it’s not something you can simply go to a parts store and buy. All these new cars with LCD displays, it’s cool and all , but will they still work 15, 20 years? And if they fail , can you easily find a replacement or repairman.

EV cars are way too complicated to be serviced at home. The argument goes with fewer moving parts, things should be more reliable , but at the same time, more electronics, more computers, more software, more points of things to go wrong. Time will tell.

[an]

[quote=Coronita][quote=scaredyclassic]I mean , jeez, if I kept a new car as long as my old civic, I’d be 84. Odds are my circumstances will be different. 3-5 years seems more reasonable. On the other hand I do hope to be working for at least another 15 years.[/quote]

I’m not sure you can keep most new cars these days as long as the cars of yesterday. They just aren’t built to be driven into the ground anymore. New cars have so much electronics and computers that when they go bad, it’s not something you can simply go to a parts store and buy. All these new cars with LCD displays, it’s cool and all , but will they still work 15, 20 years? And if they fail , can you easily find a replacement or repairman.

EV cars are way too complicated to be serviced at home. The argument goes with fewer moving parts, things should be more reliable , but at the same time, more electronics, more computers, more software, more points of things to go wrong. Time will tell.[/quote]Great point. EV might not break but it’ll get obsolete much more quickly because of continuous software updates OTA. Just look at computers. How good is your 10-20 years old computer, Mac or PC. It might still work, but software will make those old hardware a pain to use.

[scaredyclassic]

Then, environmentally, it sounds like we are making giant pieces of junk for the landfills pretty soon. Big giant obsolete computers with wheels.

There’s so much energy embedded already in my 2012 Accord, it’d take a lot of e vehicle driving to offset it. Driving an electric vehicle is probably no environmental good, at least in my case.

Maybe the best thing all around is just a cheap sedan. Hyundai Elantra. Lease it.

[svelte]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Then, environmentally, it sounds like we are making giant pieces of junk for the landfills pretty soon. Big giant obsolete computers with wheels.

There’s so much energy embedded already in my 2012 Accord, it’d take a lot of e vehicle driving to offset it. Driving an electric vehicle is probably no environmental good, at least in my case.

Maybe the best thing all around is just a cheap sedan. Hyundai Elantra. Lease it.[/quote]

No matter what car you get, I think leasing is the way to go now. Technology is changing so fast that I agree with flu – we’ve probably reached a point where new cars will be obsolete and heading for the crusher in 10 years.

It is one of the dirty little secrets about “green” EVs.

I also harbor a small suspicion that older ICE cars may become more valuable in 10-15 years…because they don’t rely on an overabundance of chips and other electronics that are no longer manufactured. They can march on as long as a gas station can be found.

[scaredyclassic]

Leasing goes against my grain, but I think it’s starting to seem much more reasonable as I approach senescence, and death.

[Coronita]

[quote=svelte][quote=scaredyclassic]Then, environmentally, it sounds like we are making giant pieces of junk for the landfills pretty soon. Big giant obsolete computers with wheels.

There’s so much energy embedded already in my 2012 Accord, it’d take a lot of e vehicle driving to offset it. Driving an electric vehicle is probably no environmental good, at least in my case.

Maybe the best thing all around is just a cheap sedan. Hyundai Elantra. Lease it.[/quote]

No matter what car you get, I think leasing is the way to go now. Technology is changing so fast that I agree with flu – we’ve probably reached a point where new cars will be obsolete and heading for the crusher in 10 years.

It is one of the dirty little secrets about “green” EVs.

I also harbor a small suspicion that older ICE cars may become more valuable in 10-15 years…because they don’t rely on an overabundance of chips and other electronics that are no longer manufactured. They can march on as long as a gas station can be found.[/quote]

I think the issue will be especially in a state like CA, it will be harder to keeping passing smog for ICE cars.

The other thing to consider is if a manufacturer stops making parts for a car. Need to stick with a car that does a large platform share with other cars. Lot’s of people who have first and second generation supras have a tougher time finding parts because the platform share on those cars is less.

Surprisingly, it’s still pretty easy to find parts for my B5 Audi A4 because so many parts on that car is shared with the rest of VW’s line up. And the first and second generation Audi’s weren’t that bad to work on. Parts are still easy to find for first generation NA Miata’s because there’s a cult following for those cars.

And the NA’s are no longer “cheap”

https://www.hagerty.com/valuation-tools/mazda/mx~5_miata/1990/1990-mazda-mx~5_miata

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Then, environmentally, it sounds like we are making giant pieces of junk for the landfills pretty soon. Big giant obsolete computers with wheels.

There’s so much energy embedded already in my 2012 Accord, it’d take a lot of e vehicle driving to offset it. Driving an electric vehicle is probably no environmental good, at least in my case.

Maybe the best thing all around is just a cheap sedan. Hyundai Elantra. Lease it.[/quote]

That was always my concern about electric cars. With traditional older combustion engines, they have been developed to a point where if something breaks, you can replace parts on it. And even when someone doesn’t want to deal with the repairs anymore on a car, there’s usually someone that will take a used car and either fix it up or chop it up into parts to keep something else running.

EV cars are much more difficult to do this. Yes, there are companies that can take a Tesla battery back and diagnose and replace specific cells that aren’t working. But this would be an out-of-warranty and strongly discouraged repair by Tesla. And it’s not just Tesla that will have this issue. Every EV car.

I’m not sure EV really are the end all solution to polution.

But even modern ICE cars have so much electronics, that it’s hard to keep them running if electronics fail.

I was hoping we’d get back to point where we have a “back to basics” cult where you just have much simplier cars for basic transportation and not continueously trying to turn cars in to computers.

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=Coronita]
I was hoping we’d get back to point where we have a “back to basics” cult where you just have much simplier cars for basic transportation and not continueously trying to turn cars in to computers.[/quote]

+1
I think people want this but car manufactures don’t see it as profitable as selling rolling luxury boxes.

[Coronita]

[quote=The-Shoveler][quote=Coronita]
I was hoping we’d get back to point where we have a “back to basics” cult where you just have much simplier cars for basic transportation and not continueously trying to turn cars in to computers.[/quote]

+1
I think people want this but car manufactures don’t see it as profitable as selling rolling luxury boxes.[/quote]

These rolling luxury boxes is what is is discouraging me for getting anything new. I’m looking into building a kit car for 4 years now. But think of figuring out how to do an electric kit car.

Electrify Your Miata

[spdrun]

Then, environmentally, it sounds like we are making giant pieces of junk for the landfills pretty soon. Big giant obsolete computers with wheels.

An electric car can actually be a lot SIMPLER and less computerized than a gas car; you don’t need as much real-time processing power to keep the engine running within a narrow range of parameters to meet emissions rules. You can do stability and traction control by controlling individual motors — the friction braking system could just be straight old-school ABS.

The problem isn’t that the cars are electric – the problem is that manufacturers are stuffing electric cars full of extra gadgets and geegaws that have ZERO to do with electrification or even safety.

Standard door handles work just fine – you could have an extra sprung plate to make them flush for aerodynamics. Instead, many makers are making the handles electric with a duplicate mechanical mechanism for safety. Just extra weight and more crap to break. Dog-lick engineering … “why does a dog lick their scrote? Because they can.”

You don’t need a screen running everything and three menus just to change the air blower direction — a temperature knob, fan knob, and air direction knob controlling the heat pump would work just fine. But, of course, that doesn’t look fancy-schmancy enough to attract techbro buyers.

[Coronita]

.

[svelte]

Went out with a friend last night and he had just bought a Mach E three days ago. First time I had been in one – I was quite impressed! Nice leather, car was quiet and smooth. Great visibility out.

He got a base model for about $45K and he is extremely happy with it. I sat in the back seat and I can tell you there was plenty of leg room and head room. You can get at least four people 6ft+ in that car comfortably. The fifth person in the center back would be a little less comfy but still not bad.

Sounds like you have about a 100 mile round trip commute…even the base Mach E has 224 range so you can just recharge at night at home no problem. Could get to 312 miles of range if you bought the bigger battery pack.

Anyway, based on that one ride last night the Mach E has bubbled up to the top of our list.

[Coronita]

Slightly unrelated, there’s also a good amount of effort for car manufacturers to make it much more complicated and expensive to keep your old car running, so either you pay a fortune keeping it running, or it’s planned obsoletion to get you to buy something new…

With that, I have a funny story to share regarding BMW’s. My E70 X5 is 11 years old and has 76k miles on it, and was kept in immaculate condition. The N55 engine is pretty rock solid, unlike the N54…But it’s everything around it with electronics usually ends up being problematic.

My car, like every other modern BMW, has an electric water pump that usually goes out around 75kmiles. Mechanically it’s fine, but it’s all the electronic encoders that the car’s ECU computer talks to to precisely control the water pump fails first.

Replacing the water pump, t stat, belts, and belt rollers wasnt terribly difficult. It was about 1 day’s job total for a garage mechanic. But when I fired the car back up, I had a check engine light up, and my OBD scanner lit up like a christmas tree with a bunch of errors about an electrical short.

[img_assist|nid=27760|title=bmw|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=500|height=400]

BMW stealership knee jerk reaction was that “with such an old car”, the engine wiring harness needed to be replaced and rewired.. $1500-2000…. Oh hell no…

So I spent a few days (weeks) troubleshooting and found this very interesting thing. I blew a black box called the “integrated supply module” found in the engine bay…

[img_assist|nid=27761|title=ism|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=408|height=306]

This black box BMW says is a very intelligent one time use fuse that protects critical electronics in the engine from electrical shorts. If it detects there’s an electrical short in the engine electronics, it will blow and prevent catastrophic damage to the electronics in the engine…..

Well, for $200 MSRP, this one time use black box clearly must be really really sophisticated in the way it protects vital engine electronics and the ECU. I mean, my BMW already has 2 fuse panels that take standard fuses, and BMW chose to include this separate intelligent single use “integrated supply module” to protect engine electronics… So this $200 one time use black box clearly must be doing something special that regular fuses in a fuse panel cant do, right?

Well, I decided to cut mine open…
[img_assist|nid=27762|title=ism2|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=400|height=300]

Here’s what’s inside
[img_assist|nid=27763|title=ism3|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=400|height=300]

Yes, that’s 7 standard fuses that you can find at Oreilly or Autozone….

[img_assist|nid=27764|title=ism4|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=400|height=300]

I replaced this one from a box of 20 fuses I bought from Autozone for $4.99, and even that was expensive compared to Amazon…
[img_assist|nid=27765|title=ism5|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=400|height=300]

Really, BMW? Instead of putting these 7 fuses into the fuse panel that already exists in this car, you decided to put these in a sealed 1 time use black box that costs $200 to replace….Fvck you.

Oh, and back to the $1500-2000 engine harness rewiring that the stealership insisted I needed to for a car “this old”…(lol)….After a week’s of diagnosis, I found the short was most likely caused by a rodent or squirrel chewing these 2 wires…

[img_assist|nid=27766|title=rodent|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=400|height=300]

A little soldering and splicing…everything was fine…

[img_assist|nid=27767|title=soldering|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=400|height=300]
[img_assist|nid=27768|title=noerrors.|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=329|height=329]

$1500-2000 rewiring…my ass…

….Which brings me to one of my previous points. If a modern car has an electrical problem, most of the authorized service centers don’t actually take the time to diagnose what the real problem is. They just recommend a complete replacement (part swapping)…which costs considerably more, and may/may not actually solve the original problem…
And part of the reason for this is the techs at these service centers probably aren’t trained that well to really diagnose electronic problems or be able to really do anything with them…

And, at least for BMWs, the electrical wiring in the engine bay isn’t really that well protected from the elements/weather/etc for this to last troublefree for many years. What you see in the pictures above are actual can bus wires that the engine’s ECU uses to communicate with critical engine components, and all these wires are in are plastic wire looms that aren’t really sealed from the environment and that also begin to crack and break over time…..So these aren’t built to last for 20-30 years…

Fortunately for me, troubleshooting and fixing shit like this is a hobby for me. Otherwise, after a week’s worth of troubleshooting, I was ready to kick my car off a cliff and get something else.

[evolusd]

Just went on exhaustive search as we’re in similar situation. Wife is driving daughter to diving in Mission Viejo 4-5 days/week.

Tried to negotiate with Honda on a CR-V hybrid, but they were firm with big add ons to MSRP. Ended up putting a deposit on a Hyundai Tucson hybrid at MSRP, no markup.

If it were me, I would have bought the Accord Sport hybrid. Doesn’t have the bells and whistles, but gets great mileage and is relatively cheap. There are a bunch on the lots, so likely more negotiable than the CR-V.

[svelte]

Neighbor bought a 2023 Kia Sportage hybrid 2 weeks ago. Looks good on the outside and the interior is top notch! If you are going to consider a hybrid, I would at least look at it.

I watch the car industry pretty closely (as do several piggs) and the word on the street is that hybrids are not long for this earth.

The reason is that auto companies predict that EV production costs will be less than ICE by 2025. If that is true, then hybrids will be more expensive that ICE or EVs. Reason? Hybrids will have all the parts of an ICE car and EVs too. If an EV can be produced cheaper than ICE, no reason for hybrids.

None of that matters if you lease because you’ll turn it back in in 3 years, but if you buy it will accelerate the depreciation of your hybrid.

[Escoguy]

If you become an Uber driver, you can lease a Ford Mach-e for $85 per week (includes 250 miles) plus 20 cents per mile over that.

the Mach-e has good reviews and I think about a 260 mile range.

You will need to do a certain number of Uber rides per month, probably about 50 which can take about 15 hours or 4-5 hours per week and can be done during the commute while using destination filter.

The rides should more or less pay for the car.

if you want to use my referral code, please send me a message for the sign on bonus.

Hope I’m not abusing Piggington terms by putting this out there.

[Coronita]

I think the other thing about leases versus buying is that if you buy a $90k car, you’re going to owe sales tax on $90k.

I believe if you lease the car, you’re going to be paying sales tax on your down payment and each monthly payment you make on the lease… I think…

[svelte]

[quote=Coronita]I think the other thing about leases versus buying is that if you buy a $90k car, you’re going to owe sales tax on $90k.

I believe if you lease the car, you’re going to be paying sales tax on your down payment and each monthly payment you make on the lease… I think…[/quote]

I believe that is correct.

It is a plus in the leasing column.

[Coronita]

[quote=svelte][quote=Coronita]I think the other thing about leases versus buying is that if you buy a $90k car, you’re going to owe sales tax on $90k.

I believe if you lease the car, you’re going to be paying sales tax on your down payment and each monthly payment you make on the lease… I think…[/quote]

I believe that is correct.

It is a plus in the leasing column.[/quote]

For EV, if you lease, I believe you still get the federal and state EV tax credit. I remember someone at the Audi dealer was trying to get me to lease the etron and was telling me that if I lease, I would receive the entire $7000+ EV rebate and could use that to offset the down payment. Of course the EV rebate is going to change now…doesn’t apply to luxury vehicles anymore and not available to people above an agi limit

[svelte]

A big consideration for me will be getting an EV that can be used as battery backup for the house, so I don’t have to buy a power wall or equivalent.

I’ve heard that Tesla voids your warranty if you use it in that manner.

[ocrenter]

I would vote for the Chevy Bolt EUV.

get it after first of the year for the federal tax rebate.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=ocrenter]I would vote for the Chevy Bolt EUV.

get it after first of the year for the federal tax rebate.[/quote]

I think that might be the most economical route. I’m going to drive my old car a bit longer and see if things loosen up supply wise in 2023.

Thinking about the cost of car leasing…$500 to $1000 a month for 10k miles a year, 850 miles a month a buck a mile or so….really makes one think about how costly it is to drive a new car. EBikes are quite a bit cheaper, even with the very high cost of bicycle tires…

[spdrun]

I would vote for the Chevy Bolt EUV.

What’s wrong with the regular Bolt hatchback? Why does a commuter need the bloatbarge version?

[scaredyclassic]

It’s been so long since I’ve had an accident. Maybe my number is coming up. Lease a suburban.

[spdrun]

Nah, if you want to be REALLY safe, get a Peterbilt or UniMog. Suburbans aren’t safe enough.

[ocrenter]

[quote=spdrun]

I would vote for the Chevy Bolt EUV.

What’s wrong with the regular Bolt hatchback? Why does a commuter need the bloatbarge version?[/quote]

Because the bloatbarge version has more utility outside of commute life. Plus the price is not that different and the range is essentially the same. It is well worth that couple thousand extra for the bloatbarge version.

[spdrun]

Personally, I like cars that are nice and low, that you sit down in, not step up. Ray Loewy had it right. If I wanted to sit high up, I’d get a jerb driving a UPS truck.

Sadly, it’s becoming hard to even get a real car here in the US, some makers only offer SUVs and CUVs with the general proportions of maggots or grubs. I want something with some style and class (even if it’s old), not another fucking burb box.

I’d make gentle love to a porcupine to be able to get some of the small Chinese and Euro market electric cars here in the US. So. Jealous.

[scaredyclassic]

Also, SUVs are designed to crush and kill by going over cyclists, while cars have a chance of the pedestrian cyclist not getting crushed beneath. Maybe the mazda3. That seems like a reasonable vehicle I could just pay cash for and not feel like I spent a ton of money.

[spdrun]

They don’t have to be designed that way, but many are. The problem is that we don’t have pedestrian safety standards. Our safety standards are stricter on how the car protects its own occupants, laxer on how it interacts with other road users.

Does Mazda3 have a decent hybrid system?

[scaredyclassic]

Just gas. But I’m ok with that

[gzz]

I have had a Mazda CX-30 now for 15 months and really like it.

It was the largest SUV that still drove like a car.

The CX-5 is bigger inside but handles worse and hasn’t been updated as recently. On the other hand, it is easier to buy they are in stock.

The nice thing about both of them is they have a standard 189hp engine. Other cheaper small SUVs are really slow.

Of they very cheap SUVs, my favorite was the Hyundai Venue.

[gzz]

Over thanksgiving in the midwest we rented a Ford Expedition XL, tied for the largest non-van passenger vehicle you can buy.

Even the third row was comfy.

The interior fit and finishing were very nice too.

[scaredyclassic]

In Temecula, today, on the cheapest leaf, 30k, they want 8000 over sticker for add ons. Jeeeeez.

Mazda in Temecula is asking MSRP on everything

[gzz]

I purchased at Westcott Mazda in National City for msrp. The cx30s were mostly selling the day they arrived.

Mine was 32k+tax because I got the leather and all the interior upgrades. Both my loaded version and the base version for ~25k I think are great values.

My son is 99th percentile size (10 months old and wearing 3T clothing) and #2 is probably coming soon, and my parents now live with me. So we are starting to look now at big SUVs.

The big Mazda, the CX-9, is on our list. The CX-30 with car seat + stroller really just has room for 3 adults and minimal cargo.

But more likely than the CX-9 will be a large two-row SUV, one with an optional third row we won’t get. CX-9 a small third row is standard.

The Mazda heads-up display includes: directions, speed, and current speed limit, and if a stop sign is coming. It is really handy, no need to keep glancing down to check your speed. The nav heads up display even shows you what lane you should be in.

[Coronita]

[quote=gzz]I purchased at Westcott Mazda in National City for msrp. The cx30s were mostly selling the day they arrived.

Mine was 32k+tax because I got the leather and all the interior upgrades. Both my loaded version and the base version for ~25k I think are great values.

My son is 99th percentile size (10 months old and wearing 3T clothing) and #2 is probably coming soon, and my parents now live with me. So we are starting to look now at big SUVs.

The big Mazda, the CX-9, is on our list. The CX-30 with car seat + stroller really just has room for 3 adults and minimal cargo.

But more likely than the CX-9 will be a large two-row SUV, one with an optional third row we won’t get. CX-9 a small third row is standard.

The Mazda heads-up display includes: directions, speed, and current speed limit, and if a stop sign is coming. It is really handy, no need to keep glancing down to check your speed. The nav heads up display even shows you what lane you should be in.[/quote]

Ok, imho you’re wasting your time on an SUV… You should get a Toyota Sienna. Those things are totally awesome. They’re big, they are roomy, and now that they are hybrid, have pretty good gas mileage.

36mpg in a minivan…. That’s pretty darn good.

https://www.toyota.com/sienna/

Once you have to move around people like kids and inlaws or relatives, you’ll regret just getting an SUV.

A CX9 at most gets 28mpg and the third row is just there for decorative purposes.

Or if you really want to take gamble, Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid. It’s a plugin hybrid.

https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica/hybrid.html

[svelte]

[quote=Coronita]

Or if you really want to take gamble, Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid. It’s a plugin hybrid.

https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica/hybrid.html%5B/quote%5D

My son has a Pacifica hybrid. He loves it! I’ve been spending a lot of time in it – great leather!

His is about 2 years old now, no issues with it.

He picked ceramic gray with black wheels because he got a fantastic deal on it…I’d probably pick another color. 🙂 Or actually, just switching to polished rims works too.

We had a Dodge Grand Caravan we kept over 100K miles, did just fine. And a Dodge Dakota to over 250K miles before we sold it and it was doing great also…still original alternator and water pump!

[Coronita]

[quote=svelte][quote=Coronita]

Or if you really want to take gamble, Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid. It’s a plugin hybrid.

https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica/hybrid.html%5B/quote%5D

My son has a Pacifica hybrid. He loves it! I’ve been spending a lot of time in it – great leather!

His is about 2 years old now, no issues with it.

He picked ceramic gray with black wheels because he got a fantastic deal on it…I’d probably pick another color. 🙂 Or actually, just switching to polished rims works too.

We had a Dodge Grand Caravan we kept over 100K miles, did just fine. And a Dodge Dakota to over 250K miles before we sold it and it was doing great also…still original alternator and water pump![/quote]

I rented dodge caravans every time I went skiing. Can’t say anything bad about them. Some people wonder if they are reliable. I think in general yes, but not enough data on hybrid yet.

[sdrealtor]

I have to agree with FLU here for many reasons! As a former parent of young children I speak from experience with them and elderly parents in the area we spent considerable time with.

A minivan offers an elevated clear view of the surroundings for the rear passengers unlike an SUV. Looking around my kids became naturally inquisitive about their surroundings and asked many questions. That natural inquisitiveness has remained into adulthood

Put two kids in the backseat of an SUV and you might as well ring the bell for the first round of the battle royale. In the separate captain seats in a minivan they are close enough to interact playfully without ending up in a wrestling match. It helped my kids bond and develop a sense of kindness for each other that remains to this day.

Kids are generators of filth! They spill, drop and throw things they eat and drink. It is impossible to clean the back of a car or SUV of the amount of debris that kids generate. With a minivan you can quickly and easily remove the seats for proper sanitizing of both them and the floor beneath them.

While you have the seats out you have a vehicle for hauling that exceeds that of a pick up truck because it is sheltered from the outside. Need to move furniture? pick up a new bike? get an extensive science project to school? The minivan is your answer!

Good luck having grandparents climb in and out of an SUV. Inevitably there will be accidents and visits to the hospital, the doctors office and the ER with them. Climbing into a vehicle with an elevated wheelbase is more trouble for them than you could imagine. In the rear, the captains seats also offer better support and closeness to their grandkids while maintaining a comfortable boundary for all.

These are just a few reason while a minivan is the one and only right answer for a parent of infants with grandparents in the home. As someone as pragmatic as you it would be almost irresponsible to get anything but a minivan.

[Hobie]

So true SDR re grandparents and high entry vehicles. Minivans are perfect for that age plus the little kiddos. Good post. He is exactly on point as this is a real issue when (grand) parents get older.

[an]

100% agree with sdr. We have an Odyssey for all of those reasons and loved our decision.

[Coronita]

[quote=Hobie]So true SDR re grandparents and high entry vehicles. Minivans are perfect for that age plus the little kiddos. Good post. He is exactly on point as this is a real issue when (grand) parents get older.[/quote]

yeah my parents hate getting into my x5… But they hate getting into and out of miatas even more…

[drboom]

[quote=scaredyclassic]In Temecula, today, on the cheapest leaf, 30k, they want 8000 over sticker for add ons. Jeeeeez.

Mazda in Temecula is asking MSRP on everything[/quote]

We bought a 2022 Leaf SV about a year ago in what should have been an even worse environment than today. I’d heard about markups and such, but while we had to wait a week or two for our desired paint color to come up (we had feelers out with a few dealerships), we didn’t pay a dime over list and we of course were able to reap all the tax benefits.

Escondido Nissan made it ultra easy and even delivered & did paperwork on our dining table.

Is the market even worse now? I was under the impression that it had improved.

[Coronita]

The other thing about minivans, particularly Siennas is that they don’t really depreciate that quickly.

I believe a Toyota Sienna depreciates about 23% after about 5 years of ownership.

Compare that with a BMW X5 that will depreciate 46% after 5 years of ownership.

Chrysler’s Pacifica depreciation is about 37% (non-hybrid version), not enough data on the hybrid version

And the Honda Odyssey is roughly 27% in 5 years.

If I could without adding a lot of money, I would trade in my X5 for a Toyota Sienna. Unfortunately, that 46%+ depreciation really hurts, lol. What I really want is an updated Toyota 4Runner or a Ford Raptor, but not the most econ friendly. Disappointed how the F150 electric turned out… that was interesting.

[Coronita]

Gzz, you know this is calling for you….

[scaredyclassic]

I was thinking maybe it’s just status. Why am I driving this beat up old Honda given who I am. Discussed with my son. He said look, you’ve been driving an old silver Honda your entire life, maybe that’s who you are. My old civic was silver, and so is the accord.

He has a point. How much of wanting a new car is about a car, and how much about wanting to be or be perceived as someone else. Or imagining life will be different.

So I replaced the wiper blades. One was really thrashed. I think I can make it through the winter with this car. In the spring, I will rethink things.

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I was thinking maybe it’s just status. Why am I driving this beat up old Honda given who I am. Discussed with my son. He said look, you’ve been driving an old silver Honda your entire life, maybe that’s who you are. My old civic was silver, and so is the accord.

He has a point. How much of wanting a new car is about a car, and how much about wanting to be or be perceived as someone else. Or imagining life will be different.

So I replaced the wiper blades. One was really thrashed. I think I can make it through the winter with this car. In the spring, I will rethink things.[/quote]

The joke my friends your “Asian-ness” of a family depends how many Toyota Camry’s or Honda Accords your family has. I had a friend that had 7 total Camrys. My best friend’s family had 6 Accords before he got rebellious and bought an Acura TL……His parents were like “why did did you waste money on a fancy label and leather”?

You have a great car. If it’s looking a little old, taking it to the body shop and getting it repainted. Or if you’re nice to me, I can experiment on your car after I’m done with my kids… Man I’m cheap…[img_assist|nid=27772|title=crackmobile|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=500|height=400]

[img_assist|nid=27774|title=crackmobile2|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=500|height=400]

[sdrealtor]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I was thinking maybe it’s just status. Why am I driving this beat up old Honda given who I am. Discussed with my son. He said look, you’ve been driving an old silver Honda your entire life, maybe that’s who you are. My old civic was silver, and so is the accord.

He has a point. How much of wanting a new car is about a car, and how much about wanting to be or be perceived as someone else. Or imagining life will be different.

So I replaced the wiper blades. One was really thrashed. I think I can make it through the winter with this car. In the spring, I will rethink things.[/quote]

It’s just a car and won’t change anything. That is unless you’re the parent of young children. Then it’s life altering. Minivan is the only sound choice in that case

[spdrun]

A minivan with a VW Microbus style pop top camping conversion would be pretty bad ass (and actually have enough power to go up mountains, unlike an actual Microbus).

https://www.mountainpoptop.com/

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor]
It’s just a car and won’t change anything. That is unless you’re the parent of young children. Then it’s life altering. Minivan is the only sound choice in that case[/quote]

That’s not my experience, unless you have have enough rug rats to go from man to zone defense. My credentials: two teenagers born 2.5 years apart, for maximum baby/car seat time. Our oldest was actually aged out and then was legislated back into a car seat.

The best car experience we had, including various rental cars & minivans, for our two-car-seat years was our 2006 “Popemobile” Scion xB. The rear passenger doors and back seats were roomy, with ridiculous headroom. There were fewer places for an errant dirty diapers and assorted baby junk to hide, too. Finding somewhere to park was laughably easy and we hardly had to do a jot of work beyond maintenance on that car until my wife totaled it in 2015 or so with 110k miles–and we got 56% of what we paid new in the settlement!

The next car wasn’t bad (2013 Kia Soul+), but still better than a minibarge overall.

Everyone brings up road trips in this context. Only people who can’t do math go on long road trips in their own cars. We rent. This means we randomly end up in BMW X7s or whatever while paying the minivan price or less. We pay the extra insurance and don’t sweat it when some homeless guy goes nuts with a metal implement on the windows & windshield while we’re parked at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=drboom][quote=sdrealtor]
It’s just a car and won’t change anything. That is unless you’re the parent of young children. Then it’s life altering. Minivan is the only sound choice in that case[/quote]

That’s not my experience, unless you have have enough rug rats to go from man to zone defense. My credentials: two teenagers born 2.5 years apart, for maximum baby/car seat time. Our oldest was actually aged out and then was legislated back into a car seat.

The best car experience we had, including various rental cars & minivans, for our two-car-seat years was our 2006 “Popemobile” Scion xB. The rear passenger doors and back seats were roomy, with ridiculous headroom. There were fewer places for an errant dirty diapers and assorted baby junk to hide, too. Finding somewhere to park was laughably easy and we hardly had to do a jot of work beyond maintenance on that car until my wife totaled it in 2015 or so with 110k miles–and we got 56% of what we paid new in the settlement!

The next car wasn’t bad (2013 Kia Soul+), but still better than a minibarge overall.

Everyone brings up road trips in this context. Only people who can’t do math go on long road trips in their own cars. We rent. This means we randomly end up in BMW X7s or whatever while paying the minivan price or less. We pay the extra insurance and don’t sweat it when some homeless guy goes nuts with a metal implement on the windows & windshield while we’re parked at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF.[/quote]

He also has older parents living with him. That seals the deal. Mini van it must be

[drboom]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=drboom][quote=sdrealtor]
It’s just a car and won’t change anything. That is unless you’re the parent of young children. Then it’s life altering. Minivan is the only sound choice in that case[/quote]

That’s not my experience, unless you have have enough rug rats to go from man to zone defense. My credentials: two teenagers born 2.5 years apart, for maximum baby/car seat time. Our oldest was actually aged out and then was legislated back into a car seat.

The best car experience we had, including various rental cars & minivans, for our two-car-seat years was our 2006 “Popemobile” Scion xB. The rear passenger doors and back seats were roomy, with ridiculous headroom. There were fewer places for an errant dirty diapers and assorted baby junk to hide, too. Finding somewhere to park was laughably easy and we hardly had to do a jot of work beyond maintenance on that car until my wife totaled it in 2015 or so with 110k miles–and we got 56% of what we paid new in the settlement!

The next car wasn’t bad (2013 Kia Soul+), but still better than a minibarge overall.

Everyone brings up road trips in this context. Only people who can’t do math go on long road trips in their own cars. We rent. This means we randomly end up in BMW X7s or whatever while paying the minivan price or less. We pay the extra insurance and don’t sweat it when some homeless guy goes nuts with a metal implement on the windows & windshield while we’re parked at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF.[/quote]

He also has older parents living with him. That seals the deal. Mini van it must be[/quote]

Well, I was referring to the part I quoted.

I guess if you have two+ kids and two grandparents who don’t drive and the whole crew gets schlepped around on the regular, that amounts to the zone defense I mentioned.

[gzz]

[quote=Coronita]Gzz, you know this is calling for you….

[/quote]

I am not against a minivan, I learned to drive in one. But the Japanese ones are expensive now, and as you mention, there are minimal savings going used. Selection of used ones is very limited too.

The Odyssey starts at 39k after “fees” and before tax.

Sienna has zero in-stock inventory at my closest two dealers, and they appear to be marking them up 11k over MSRP, so they practically start at $54 before tax.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=gzz][quote=Coronita]Gzz, you know this is calling for you….

[/quote]

I am not against a minivan, I learned to drive in one. But the Japanese ones are expensive now, and as you mention, there are minimal savings going used. Selection of used ones is very limited too.

The Odyssey starts at 39k after “fees” and before tax.

Sienna has zero in-stock inventory at my closest two dealers, and they appear to be marking them up 11k over MSRP, so they practically start at $54 before tax.[/quote]

Taking proper care of kids and parents is expensive. You love them. It’s just money

[Coronita]

[quote=gzz][quote=Coronita]Gzz, you know this is calling for you….

[/quote]

I am not against a minivan, I learned to drive in one. But the Japanese ones are expensive now, and as you mention, there are minimal savings going used. Selection of used ones is very limited too.

The Odyssey starts at 39k after “fees” and before tax.

Sienna has zero in-stock inventory at my closest two dealers, and they appear to be marking them up 11k over MSRP, so they practically start at $54 before tax.[/quote]

Why are you restricting yourself to just san diego dealers? You’re not going to find a good deal unless you shop against LA dealers. That’s just a fact. Galpin Mazda for instance has some of the cheapest prices and they have much larger inventory. I always use their prices to price match down here (with former Hines Mazda and Mazda of El Cajon)….

Same could be said about Toyotas.
There’s Longo Toyota, Toyota of Orange, Cerritos Toyota. You don’t even need to talk to anyone in person, just do it all over email get a written OTD price over text or email, and then show up and pick it up. That’s it. That’s how I always bought my cars. Never in the showroom. Those salesman are sleesy. The internet sales guys do it based on volume so they get to the point.

If you’re really lazy, you can try Costco auto buying program or maybe something like truecar, though you don’t get the best prices from truecar.

[Coronita]

There’s like 35+ toyota dealers in north of us in LA county. I’ve pretty emailed all of them at one point.

And there’s plenty of sienna minivans. Might not be able to get below MSRP, but definitely shouldn’t be paying above it.

3 here:
https://www.southcoasttoyota.com/inventory/?model=sienna&type=new&ordering=display_price-asc

7 here:
https://www.toyotaofglendale.com/new-inventory/index.htm?model=Sienna

24 here:
https://www.keyestoyota.com/inventory/new-toyota-sienna/

8 here:
https://www.toyotaoforange.com/inventory/?model=sienna&type=new&ordering=msrp-asc

and so forth.

[gzz]

[quote=Coronita]

And there’s plenty of sienna minivans. Might not be able to get below MSRP, but definitely shouldn’t be paying above it.

[/quote]

Here’s a post from a month ago on reddit:

I live in Virginia and it’s very hard to even find the available Sienna 2023 due to its popularity. I contacted 10 + dealers and the average wait is 6 – 12 months or you gotta pay an extra $8k – $10k markup price for immediately available Sienna 2023s.

All 8 of the Toyota of Orange are listed as “in transit” and “call for price.”

If San Diego dealers are charging 11k over MSRP I really doubt they are MSRP in LA.

The obvious solution is to wait for the coming recession! Or maybe buy this 2011 Toyota Sienna Limo:

View post on imgur.com

I dealt with this a year ago and ruled out Toyota for this reason. Seems to be slightly better but the recession hasn’t really hit Toyota dealers yet.

[sdrealtor]

Did you wait for a recession before spending around $1.5M for a house in East County? Hell no!

[Coronita]

.

[svelte]

We drive nice cars. Always have.

When we couldn’t afford a new nice car, we bought a used nice car. We kind of live by the adage buy the best you can afford and take care of it so it lasts forever.

Right now we have four vehicles may be up to five in late 2023 or early 2024 (an EV).

We have a 2004 that I ordered new from the factory and took delivery Oct 2003. I searched all of California inventory and there wasn’t a single one like I wanted so I ordered, invoice price + $200. Vehicle now has 135K miles and looks new. I still get compliments on it. American made.

A 2006 we bought new off the lot after it had sat there almost a year. It now has 135K on it and now is a “leisure” vehicle…doesn’t get driven to work often, just take it out for fun once in a while. Looks new except where the leather is cracking on the driver’s seat, wife is after me to get new leather in it. American made.

A 2019 we bought new after it sat on the lot for a year – got it 25% off. Was new on the showroom floor when we bought it, now has only 3500 miles on it. Made in Italy.

A 2019 we leased new after it sat on dealer’s lot in Santa Monica for a year. We just bought out the lease on Friday…I totaled up all lease payments and the buy-out…total we paid is over 20% off MSRP sticker, approaching 25%. Made in Italy, has 28K miles on it right now.

We will probably own those four for a long, long time. Probably the last ICE vehicles we ever buy.

Next year’s EV will be a lease. I figure we’ll lease EVs until my wife retires, then turn the EV in and live the rest of our lives with the four ICE vehicles. The EV will keep the miles off the ICEs and once we retire we won’t drive much anyway.

[gzz]

Hyundai Tucson?
Toyota Highlander?

Those sound very big for a solo commute.
They seem to be a waste of gas, and harder/less fun to drive.

The Highlander is the #1 mom-mobile in Rancho San Diego. I have seen three of them all parked next to each other in the grocery parking lot.

Some sharp large and semi-lux sedans that caught my eye on my commute:

Camry V6 TRD (301 HP!)

Hyundai Sonata Hybrid (starts at only 28k)

Mazda6 (discontinued last year, but looked really nice when I was at the dealer)

The Toyota Avalon is nicer inside than entry-level BMW/Lexus/Mercedes. I have been driven in them in Uber and the back seat is huge too.

[Coronita]

[quote=gzz]

Hyundai Tucson?
Toyota Highlander?

Those sound very big for a solo commute.
They seem to be a waste of gas, and harder/less fun to drive.

The Highlander is the #1 mom-mobile in Rancho San Diego. I have seen three of them all parked next to each other in the grocery parking lot.

Some sharp large and semi-lux sedans that caught my eye on my commute:

Camry V6 TRD (301 HP!)

Hyundai Sonata Hybrid (starts at only 28k)

Mazda6 (discontinued last year, but looked really nice when I was at the dealer)

The Toyota Avalon is nicer inside than entry-level BMW/Lexus/Mercedes. I have been driven in them in Uber and the back seat is huge too.[/quote]

Nothing is more tacky than a riced out Toyota Camry .. if it walks like a dog, talks like a duck… It’s still a duck. If you’re going that route, Scaredy might as well put spinners wheels on his Honda Accord, cut his springs to lower it, put in major off camber to lower it more, and slap a bunch of Vtec stickers on it too.

[img_assist|nid=27777|title=Yo|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=400|height=367]

[barnaby33]

Dude, we’re all standing around waiting for Rich to crunch the latest Case-Schiller numbers. What else do you want to talk about? Elon? Kan(Ye)? Tons of other places to do that.

Sorry there’s history here. Scardey is a shit stirer of the oh-so-nervous-kind. I just realized that he’s either not going to buy a car, or he’ll just buy the wrong one (with say the wrong color of vegan leather) then endlessly snipe about it.

Minivan is still the safest option to be un-cool, un-happy and reasonably safe.
Josh

[Coronita]

[quote=barnaby33]

Dude, we’re all standing around waiting for Rich to crunch the latest Case-Schiller numbers. What else do you want to talk about? Elon? Kan(Ye)? Tons of other places to do that.

Sorry there’s history here. Scardey is a shit stirer of the oh-so-nervous-kind. I just realized that he’s either not going to buy a car, or he’ll just buy the wrong one (with say the wrong color of vegan leather) then endlessly snipe about it.

Minivan is still the safest option to be un-cool, un-happy and reasonably safe.
Josh[/quote]
You are so wrong. Minivans can be cool.

You can put a HKS supercharger in the Sienna and do gulfwing doors on it and air suspensions!!!!

Check out this cool video…

[drboom]

[quote=Coronita]
You are so wrong. Minivans can be cool.

You can put a HKS supercharger in the Sienna and do gulfwing doors on it and air suspensions!!!!

Check out this cool video…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOCK5_R1OcA%5B/quote%5D

Gross!

Now this is done properly (M-B R63):

The BMW X7 I drove for a week on a road trip was fun in its own cetacean way, I’ll admit. More generically, late model Pacficas are nice but I have a hard time staying awake when behind the wheel of one. Bo-ring.

But I’d still rather have a P100 Model X if I had to have a SUV/minibarge.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=barnaby33]

Dude, we’re all standing around waiting for Rich to crunch the latest Case-Schiller numbers. What else do you want to talk about? Elon? Kan(Ye)? Tons of other places to do that.

Sorry there’s history here. Scardey is a shit stirer of the oh-so-nervous-kind. I just realized that he’s either not going to buy a car, or he’ll just buy the wrong one (with say the wrong color of vegan leather) then endlessly snipe about it.

Minivan is still the safest option to be un-cool, un-happy and reasonably safe.
Josh[/quote]

Harsh, yet fair.

Escondido is offering leafs at MSRP, can’t quite pull the trigger. The do have low 72 month financing. Still…I hesitate. Termite problem…costly

[barnaby33]

Seriously, 3 pages for this thread? Just buy the damned mini van already! You’re old and white, why do you give a damn what other people think? Mini vans aren’t sexy but they are super utilitarian and easy to drive. Plus there’s a lot of them out there, so you blend in. Unless you’re going for the bald spot covering Lucid I’d just by the Mazda and be done with it.
Josh

[drboom]

[quote=barnaby33]Seriously, 3 pages for this thread? Just buy the damned mini van already![/quote]

Dude, we’re all standing around waiting for Rich to crunch the latest Case-Schiller numbers. What else do you want to talk about? Elon? Kan(Ye)? Tons of other places to do that.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=drboom][quote=barnaby33]Seriously, 3 pages for this thread? Just buy the damned mini van already![/quote]

Dude, we’re all standing around waiting for Rich to crunch the latest Case-Schiller numbers. What else do you want to talk about? Elon? Kan(Ye)? Tons of other places to do that.[/quote]

Case Shiller won’t tell you what happened until 5 months after it happened. I already told you. Spring 2022 gains erased. Prices off 15-20% from that peak that was only a moment in time

Now let’s focus on what’s truly important. #minivanlife

[Coronita]

I think the Mercedes AMG station wagon is way overdone.

X7, not a big fan of it.

[gzz]

[quote=Coronita]I think the Mercedes AMG station wagon is way overdone.

X7, not a big fan of it.[/quote]

The X7 is pretty in person. Someone near my office has a purple one. It must have sold poorly the first couple years, wikipedia says it hit dealerships in 3/2019 but I didn’t start noticing them until last year.

The fastest I have ever driven a car was my old boss’s E-Class wagon in Europe, about 140MPH.

It was an awkward boat driving in urban areas of Europe, but fun on the highways.

[Coronita]

This is interesting.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/winter-coming-best-country-world-230000360.html

Switzerland is thinking of limiting EV car usage during the winter energy crunch.

[Coronita]

Well since the gvwr of the x7 is over 6000lbs, it would qualify for section 179 full deduction. Unfortunately, the sienna is 5995…

[spdrun]

Got to love a law that encourages people to buy guzzling bloat barges 🙁

[svelte]

I’m afraid I’m going to have to disagree with the general consensus here. Unless you necessarily want one, I’m not going to recommend a minivan.

Here’s why:

1. Third Row: I don’t care if the third row is in a SUV or a minivan, it is awkward to get in and out of. We had our minivan for 6 years and I can probably count on my fingers the number of times we had people use the third row. In most situations people preferred to take two cars rather than stuff a few individuals in that third row. And getting seniors back there? Ain’t gonna happen. Their bodies don’t bend in the ways necessary for getting in and out of that row anymore.

2. Ease of entry: Take a look around – do you see old folks buying minivans or mid-sized SUVs? Answer: mid-sized SUVs! The reason is that in most they can just slide right into the seat…they don’t have to lower themselves down like a sedan or raise themselves up like a full-size SUV. In a mid-sized SUV, the ride height is often similar to a standing height.

3. View: I’m very perplexed by stating the view out of a minivan is better. What type of SUV are people driving that doesn’t have a large window adjacent to each seat?

4. Hauling: well this may be the one category where a minivan wins. Since you can remove the 3rd AND 2nd rows, you do end up with a huge space for bikes, lumber, whatever. We always have a pickup in our stable so this really wasn’t a feature we used often in our minivan. We removed the seats exactly ONCE – that was when two of my kids and I drove to nor cal to bring back a bed and other assorted furniture. We took out the 3rd row and one captain’s chair to make room. Worked out fine but I wouldn’t say one trip of that sort justified us owning a vehicle that could do that. We could have rented something for the weekend. If you WOULD use that feature more often, well maybe a minivan is for you.

5. Cleanability: Yes if you have folks leaving food wrappers and other trash in your car, then a minivan can be easier to clean, especially in the third row area. However, we don’t have that problem. The only “food” allowed in any of my vehicles is bottled water, period. If you’re gonna eat, you’re gonna take someone else’s car, not mine. Really the only cleaning I have to do is wiping down surfaces with a wet towel to get the dust and vacuum the carpet once or twice a year. That’s it.

6. Size. I found a minivan to drive like a large vehicle, especially when backing up. I was well aware I had a long, large mass behind me when I backed up. The same would be true with a large SUV for sure, but we own a mid-sized SUV right now (wife insisted on it) and it really doesn’t feel that big. It feels light, maneuverable, and easy to park. That’s why we just bought out the lease…as anti-SUV as I am, I found I enjoy this one so we are keeping it.

Bottom line: unless you would be needing to haul a massive amount of cargo inside and out of the elements on a semi-regular basis, I think a mid-sized SUV is a better choice. I would venture to guess that is why SUVs are so popular now while minivan sales have tapered off to a trickle.

Which mid-sized SUV is a matter of preference, you know what you like.

[utcsox]

[quote=svelte]
Which mid-sized SUV is a matter of preference, you know what you like.[/quote]

From Car and Driver,

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15380025/best-small-compact-suv-truck/

You also attend San Diego International Auto (12/30-1/2) to check out and test drive cars.

[utcsox]

[quote=svelte]
Which mid-sized SUV is a matter of preference, you know what you like.[/quote]

From Car and Driver,

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15380025/best-small-compact-suv-truck/

You also attend San Diego International Auto (12/30-1/2) to check out and test drive cars.

[utcsox]

[quote=svelte]
Which mid-sized SUV is a matter of preference, you know what you like.[/quote]

From Car and Driver,

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15380025/best-small-compact-suv-truck/

You shall also attend San Diego International Auto (12/30-1/2) to check out and test drive cars.

[sdrealtor]

You are judging as yourself at your current position in life not the parent of a newborn with another to follow and two grandparents. My mother had no issue getting in and out if we put her in back row but we also had one of th eparents in row 3 with grannie in front. The math is quite different in that situation. Minivan is what works best and why most parents of young kids get them

[sdrealtor]

I’ve got a friend that has hip issues and has them replaced. He’s over 65 and has driven mini vans for the last 15 years because of the lower step in and maneuverability once inside. It’s easy to think an suv is comparable if you don’t have mobility issues. They aren’t

[spdrun]

It sounds like you’re comparing a 2-row SUV with a 3-row minivan or SUV. In both types of vehicle, the 2nd row is easy to access, but the 3rd row isn’t. The difference is that minivan seats are more easily removable or fold flat. The solution is to just use the van as a 2-row vehicle (with more cargo room, better efficiency, and lower cargo floor than an SUV), or only keep rows 1+3, which gives you basically infinite legroom.

[svelte]

[quote=sdrealtor]Minivan is what works best and why most parents of young kids get them[/quote]

Scaredy has young kids? I must have missed that part.

I though his children were grown.

[Coronita]

[quote=svelte][quote=sdrealtor]Minivan is what works best and why most parents of young kids get them[/quote]

Scaredy has young kids? I must have missed that part.

I though his children were grown.[/quote]

No no no. We’re mixing up gzz and scardey here.

1. Gzz should get a Toyota Sienna because he has young kids, older parents, and needs to be soccer dad eventually.

Gzz, go get your Toyota Sienna hybrid and call it a day.

2. Scardey is an old fart going through mid life crisis… He should get a McLaren Artura and call it a day…It will satisfy his mid life crisis ole fart syndrome. And since it’s a hybrid, he can say he’s mildy going green…sort of… Plus, it’s an automatic, so rowing manual gearbox not required at old fart age, where the hand-eye coordination just isn’t quite there anymore….
Check it out.. https://cars.mclaren.com/us-en/artura

“The next-generation supercar offers next-level driver engagement. The innovative cockpit design brings powertrain and handling control switches within fingertip reach. Keeping your hands on the wheel, and eyes on the road. Electro-hydraulic steering provides optimum feedback.

The E-Motor’s instant torque enables throttle response that’s twice as fast as our pure petrol cars – seamlessly transitioning to the V6 engine to deliver a torrent of power from standstill. Infotainment and connectivity deepen your engagement too – including new HD touchscreens, Apple CarPlay® and Android Auto™ capability.”

Scardey, go get your McLaren Artura… It’s not that bad. Starts around $238k, which isn’t insane for a supercar. Consider the Ferrari SF90 for example starts at $516k, and there’s a premium such that preowned ones are around $800k, and you can’t simply just walk into a Ferrari dealer and order one. As the saying goes. You don’t pick ferrari…ferrari picks you….

McLaren isn’t as anal retentive. You want, you order, you get. It’s as simple as that. Pay no attention to the fact that McLaren is in financial trouble… With your help, you’ll help them stay alive.

[scaredyclassic]

Not bad. It is making the Leaf seem free by comparison.

[spdrun]

Scaredy should get a motorbike — SV650 gets 50 mpg highway or a 90s Miata and plop a turbo in it. Already gets 30 mpg, some people say that the turbo slightly improves fuel economy.

[Coronita]

[quote=spdrun]Scaredy should get a motorbike — SV650 gets 50 mpg highway or a 90s Miata and plop a turbo in it. Already gets 30 mpg, some people say that the turbo slightly improves fuel economy.[/quote]

That certainly is false. Turbo/supercharger does not improve gas mileage in a miata. In fact, FFS supercharger made gas mileage on NA miata go from about 30 to about 18mpg. And Edelbrock supercharger made ND miata gas mileage go from 27 to about 21. Once you get a supercharger or turbo, you aren’t going to drive with mpg in mind.

Also, being that Scardey is probably going to remain in CA, the number of CARB legal options for a NA and ND miata is pretty limited.

ND, you pretty much limited to a BBR turbo or an Edelbrock Supercharger. NA, you’re pretty much limited to the Flyin Miata Turbo or the FFS Supercharger.

Also, Miatas are generally uncomfortable for anyone that is taller than 6 feet. The ND has even less room then the NA.

Also ND miatas are all special order now.
And the price of NA miatas are now gone up a bit, because NA miatas are no longer “cheap sporty cars”. They have moved into the “collectible” category according to Hagerty.
https://www.classic.com/m/mazda/mx-5-miata/

If you don’t have to live in CA, you could have bid on Flyin Miata’s one of a kind ND V8 that was auctioned off at Bring a Trailer.

2016 Mazda MX-5 Miata Flyin’ Miata LS3 6-Speed

It sold for $99.7k, i believe the highest price paid for a miata.

Pretty much every miata cult member I knew bid on this.

[spdrun]

NB. The unloved late 90s ugly duckling. Seems to be quite a few of them for $5-7k at least in the East, and there’s something to be said for not having the flip-up lights. Z3s also go for under 10 grand.

Also, what about a motorcycle — as visceral as it gets and a hell of a lot of fun. Basically the “fuck you” to all of those who want everything on the roads to be safe and domesticated.

[Coronita]

[quote=spdrun]NB. The unloved late 90s ugly duckling. Seems to be quite a few of them for $5-7k at least in the East, and there’s something to be said for not having the flip-up lights. Z3s also go for under 10 grand.

Also, what about a motorcycle — as visceral as it gets and a hell of a lot of fun. Basically the “fuck you” to all of those who want everything on the roads to be safe and domesticated.[/quote]

It’s unlikely a $4000 NB miata is in decent shape, especially on the east coast. The subframe is probably covered in rust. Closer to $7000 for decent ones.

NBs are just fine. The might be slightly less desirable in CARB-nazi states like CA, because NB’s started to have 2 cats and OBD2 and finding CARB legal turbo/supercharger kits is even more difficult… but plenty of people have NBs. And CARB legal LS3 V8 swap is out of the question.

But they are still in pretty good demand. If I had the garage space, I’d pick up an NB and leave it stock with better suspension and nothing more.

The NC is probably the most tunable miata and most reliable. Easiest thing would be the Ford 2.5 engine swap. And then put a SC on that. The transmission on the NC is pretty solid, more so than the ND. Fiat was smart and used the NC transmission on the Fiat 124, which is why actually the Fiat 124 is more reliable than the ND Miata. I already broke the ND transmission twice in 22,000 miles, though it was partly used with a supercharger and raced, they probably took the gram strategy way too far and there’s probably enough driveline flex so that the shafts flex enough for the gears to well, you can imagine. If stiffer engine mounts and differential mounts don’t solve this, I’ll eventually do an NC transmission swap, though it will add about 50lbs to the the car. Other people already have.
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=712509

Anyway, scardey is probably too tall for a miata. And he’s too old for a Toyota 86, which would be a good second option. Toyota Supra would not work, because basically it’s a BMW drivetrain, which Scardey does not want. He could wait for the Infiniti version of the 2023 Twin Turbo Z. It’s a little on the heavy side…

Still think the McLaren is the only answer.

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Not bad. It is making the Leaf seem free by comparison.[/quote]

That’s what my significant other does. She makes me wait in line to look a the Channel purse that’s like $5000… Then she goes to Tory Burch and shows me the $500 purse she really likes. I’m like, whoa what a steal!

That’s ok I do the same thing…. I take her to go show the latest and great ratchet set from Snap-On that are a few thousand….And then I go to Amazon and show her the ratchet set and impact driver from Makita, and she’s like “whoa, what a steal”….

We have our usual tools for purse gift exchange…

[Coronita]

Oh wait scardey… If you like Honda’s, you can always go retro and get the 2023 Acura Integra.

I miss my old integra from high school days.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41788950/2024-acura-integra-type-s-confirmed/

And it comes with a manual gearbox!

[scaredyclassic]

I did spend a couple of years commuting a fairly long distance on a mint green vespa 150 in 2004. Even went out to indio once on the 10 freeway, one of the dumber things I’ve ever done. The wind was brutal, and I felt like I was getting blown off the road.

No accidents or near accidents, but very little freeway driving. 150 just the lower limit for freeways.

Ultimately, service was way too expensive on the vespa Also, tire life way too short, inconvenient. Not great for the high mileage I was doing

Was always ATGATT. Looked pretty wild fully geared up on my tiny scooter. That stuff, which I never scrimped on, was really costly too . Full padded leathers, aerostich, massive boots, kevlar gloves, premium full face helmet. , Dainese Spine protector. Spandex hip and knee pads. Separate ventilated summer stuff.

Lane splitting is however attractive.

I still have a non running Honda ruckus in my garage. But maybe I need this

https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/scooter/adv150

Hard no on a heavier motorcycle. But I could see riding a nimble scooter again. Still have the motorcycle endorsement on my cdl. Guess I’ll have to buy this one again. Should’ve kept mine

https://www.aerostich.com/men-s-r-3-one-piece-suit.html

Maybe used on ebay

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I did spend a couple of years commuting a fairly long distance on a mint green vespa 150 in 2004. Even went out to indio once on the 10 freeway, one of the dumber things I’ve ever done. The wind was brutal, and I felt like I was getting blown off the road.

No accidents or near accidents, but very little freeway driving. 150 just the lower limit for freeways.

Ultimately, service was way too expensive on the vespa Also, tire life way too short, inconvenient. Not great for the high mileage I was doing

Was always ATGATT. Looked pretty wild fully geared up on my tiny scooter. That stuff, which I never scrimped on, was really costly too . Full padded leathers, aerostich, massive boots, kevlar gloves, premium full face helmet. , Dainese Spine protector. Spandex hip and knee pads. Separate ventilated summer stuff.

Lane splitting is however attractive.

I still have a non running Honda ruckus in my garage. But maybe I need this

https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/scooter/adv150

Hard no on a heavier motorcycle. But I could see riding a nimble scooter again. Still have the motorcycle endorsement on my cdl. Guess I’ll have to buy this one again. Should’ve kept mine

https://www.aerostich.com/men-s-r-3-one-piece-suit.html

Maybe used on ebay[/quote]

Ok, ok compromise.

Ariel Atom.
https://www.arielna.com/arielatom

As shown on Top Gear

It’s like a motorcycle, but 4 wheels.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Coronita][quote=scaredyclassic]I did spend a couple of years commuting a fairly long distance on a mint green vespa 150 in 2004. Even went out to indio once on the 10 freeway, one of the dumber things I’ve ever done. The wind was brutal, and I felt like I was getting blown off the road.

No accidents or near accidents, but very little freeway driving. 150 just the lower limit for freeways.

Ultimately, service was way too expensive on the vespa Also, tire life way too short, inconvenient. Not great for the high mileage I was doing

Was always ATGATT. Looked pretty wild fully geared up on my tiny scooter. That stuff, which I never scrimped on, was really costly too . Full padded leathers, aerostich, massive boots, kevlar gloves, premium full face helmet. , Dainese Spine protector. Spandex hip and knee pads. Separate ventilated summer stuff.

Lane splitting is however attractive.

I still have a non running Honda ruckus in my garage. But maybe I need this

https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/scooter/adv150

Hard no on a heavier motorcycle. But I could see riding a nimble scooter again. Still have the motorcycle endorsement on my cdl. Guess I’ll have to buy this one again. Should’ve kept mine

https://www.aerostich.com/men-s-r-3-one-piece-suit.html

Maybe used on ebay[/quote]

Ok, ok compromise.

Ariel Atom.
https://www.arielna.com/arielatom

As shown on Top Gear

It’s like a motorcycle, but 4 wheels.[/quote]

No lane splitting. So, no. Now I’m liking the super cub

[svelte]

[quote=Coronita]Oh wait scardey… If you like Honda’s, you can always go retro and get the 2023 Acura Integra.

I miss my old integra from high school days.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41788950/2024-acura-integra-type-s-confirmed/

And it comes with a manual gearbox![/quote]

A friend just got one! He is so excited, sent me about 10 photos of it. I haven’t had a chance to ride in it yet.

[Coronita]

I won’t be buying a car until my kid is off to college. 1 more year (I hope)…. Hopefully by then we’ll have a lot more electric sports cars.

[scaredyclassic]

I think the income restriction on ev tax credit is going up next year. Must earn less than 300k. Sadly we will exceed that. Is that a reason to buy an electric car now in 2022?

Also I’m only 5’10 and weigh about 140, although my weight is plummeting due to a very restrictive holistic dentistry diet I adopted as part of a dental issue. I easily fit in a Miata.

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I think the income restriction on ev tax credit is going up next year. Must earn less than 300k. Sadly we will exceed that. Is that a reason to buy an electric car now in 2022?

Also I’m only 5’10 and weigh about 140, although my weight is plummeting due to a very restrictive holistic dentistry diet I adopted as part of a dental issue. I easily fit in a Miata.[/quote]

Well then you are my height and you will fit fine in a Miata or Fiat 124. But you already decided on a scooter. And I’m pretty confident you won’t buy a Miata. You just aren’t Miata material

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Coronita][quote=scaredyclassic]I think the income restriction on ev tax credit is going up next year. Must earn less than 300k. Sadly we will exceed that. Is that a reason to buy an electric car now in 2022?

Also I’m only 5’10 and weigh about 140, although my weight is plummeting due to a very restrictive holistic dentistry diet I adopted as part of a dental issue. I easily fit in a Miata.[/quote]

Well then you are my height and you will fit fine in a Miata or Fiat 124. But you already decided on a scooter. And I’m pretty confident you won’t buy a Miata. You just aren’t Miata material[/quote]

My retiring coworker bought a Miata right before quit to tool around. He took me for a ride. He was pretty stoked

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=Coronita][quote=scaredyclassic]I think the income restriction on ev tax credit is going up next year. Must earn less than 300k. Sadly we will exceed that. Is that a reason to buy an electric car now in 2022?

Also I’m only 5’10 and weigh about 140, although my weight is plummeting due to a very restrictive holistic dentistry diet I adopted as part of a dental issue. I easily fit in a Miata.[/quote]

Well then you are my height and you will fit fine in a Miata or Fiat 124. But you already decided on a scooter. And I’m pretty confident you won’t buy a Miata. You just aren’t Miata material[/quote]

My retiring coworker bought a Miata right before quit to tool around. He took me for a ride. He was pretty stoked[/quote]

Good man. Hardtop or softtop?

It’s a love it or hate it car. There’s some people who love it like a cult member and there’s some people who absolutely hate it.I’m in the former category. People who get a Miata who are older are old people who refuse to grow up and don’t want to spend twice as much on a P-car. Make bo mistake, Porsches are Porsches and way better cars it’s not even a close comparison. But there’s definitely a cult following Miatas. And a lot of people who autocross or track their cars take good Miata drivers very seriously, especially at autocrosses. At BMW CCA sponsored autocrosses here, Miatas usually take top time of the day. Usually done by Brian Goodwin or one of his guys at Goodwin Racing. At PCA autocrosses, Porsches do well, but good miata drivers put up a decent fight.

Speaking of the ND Miata.
I have the one with the retractable hardtop, the RF. I was originally considering getting the softop, but I already have a Miata with a soft top, and I liked the side profile of the RF and the internet sales guy gave me a pretty hefty discount in 2017 even though it was a first year production run car. I’m not a big fan of the ND miata rear end, I think the fiat 124 has a better looking ass, but that’s just me…The ND RF was only suppose to be a fun street car toy and wasn’t suppose to be used at the track or autocross, so the weight difference between the hardtop and softtop isnt a big deal… but I made the mistake of taking the hardtop to one event to see how it compare to my NA Miata. My NA is supercharged, a lot lighter with most of the interior stripped , and is theoretically a faster car. However, the ND Miata is just a better Miata on the track and autocross , even when it was underpowered before the supercharger went in. My time was significantly better in the ND RF, even though it’s a heavier car…it’s a lot more refined than the NA and a lot more forgiving with driver error. If I had a softop ND, I probably would have done even better.

The RF hardtop, you lose about 1 inch of headroom and about 2 inches of rear seat adjustment compared to the softtop and the B pillar has a blindspot when the hardtop is up, but not unmanageable.
There are two companies that make a custom seat bracket that lowers the seat height by 2 inches if you need it: Paco Motorsports and Blackbird Fabworks. You probably don’t need it, it’s mainly for people who wear a helmet and need to the broom stick test for track day or people who drive the hardtop up and don’t want the helmet to be constantly hitting the roof

The hardtop weighs about 100lb more than softtop, about 2450lbs, still less than an Toyota FRS/ Suburu BRz.

With the RF hardtop , you can’t fit a rollbar in it, which is often required for racing at some track events (some events allow you to drive without a rollbar and the factory aluminum headrest is enough if you put up the hardtop , but this is very dangerous because the hardtop really isn’t meant to protect you in the case your car rolls over on the track). If you plan on racing a lot, get the softtop with a rollbar from Blackbird Fabworx

The newer ND Miata have an adjustable telescoping steering wheel , which is useful if you have long legs, short arms like me.

The 2016-18 ND Miata does not. The 2016-18 ND is 150hp, but it’s tunable with CARB legal supercharger made my Edelbrock (which I have ), or a CARB legal turbo from BBR that you can get from Flyin Miata..Both will bring the power to be about 200-215hp at the wheel (dynoed).Plan about a $6000 budget if you want to do that. You can get higher with custom , non+carb approved tunes..And there are 4 additional turbo kits that have bigger power but aren’t CARB legal: JDL, Avo, TurboSource, HKS.

The 2019 and onward is called the ND2 , which is a slight improvement over the original. Some tweaks to the engine, flywheel ,etc, stock power slight increase to 181hp, and now a higher revving motor, similar to a Honda S2000, but much lighter. There currently are no CARB legal turbo or supercharger that works with this 2019+ ND2 , but if you are just going to leave the car in stock form,.just get a 2019+. If you plan on tweaking with it, get something 2016-2018.

If you want to shove golf bags into the car , don’t get a Miata. There’s literally no trunk space.

Truthfully, if you don’t mind spending the money, just get a Porsche. It’s a way better car. The fit, finish of the Porsche is unmatched, and it’s pretty reliable. Yes maintenance on the Porsche is not cheap but it’s not outrageous. And if you really don’t plan on getting a manual transmission, just get a Porsche with PDK and call it a day. You don’t want a Miata with an automatic , it’s just not as fun. Purists will say that getting a Porsche with PDK is heresy, but truthfully you can’t beat an electronically controlled gearbox and paddle shifters. That’s why F1 went this route , and even Porsche track focused cars like GT3 all come with PDK. Rowing your own gearbox can be fun, but you won’t be quicker at the track than someone with PDK, skill level being equal.
911s are great cars, as well as the Caymen S…Like I said before, I almost picked up a Guards Red 991 911s with PDK a long time ago. The week I was suppose to pick it up, my friends at Broadcom and sdrealtor talked me out of it. My Broadcom boss (custom built Porsche guy ) and my coworker(German BMW guy) thought I was nuts buying a brand new Porsche to learn how to autocross and do track day for the first time. They told me to go buy a cheap 94 Miata and drive it like a hooligan and thrash it on a track or autocross and not worry about babying a brand new P car. sdrealtor meanwhile piled on by tempting me with a short sales condo near Sdsu for roughly the same price at the 992 911s. So i listened to all of the above , cancelled my 991 911s purchase, bought the short sales condo, and spent $2000 on a piece of shit 94 Miata that had torn softtop, worn and warped brake rotors and pads, busted suspension, a worn out cat that failed to pass smog, a bent front bumper rail, cracked front bumper cover and dented rear fender….oh and trunk full of kitty litter…from a dental hygentist nice older lady. After it failed smog, she sold it to me for $1800. I spent $3 on a bottle of Heet in the fuel line and passed smog, bought the cheapest brake rotors and pads from Amazon for $60 total and replaced all 4, and spent $800 on a shocks and springs from Flyin Miata….and another $600 on a rollbar from Hard Dog….and had the best time autocrossing and tracking the car. Because while many others drove their really nice cars more carefully, I didn’t give a rats ass if I ran into cones or scraped the guard rails in the POS Miataz and literally drove with a binary pedal…the gas pedal was either all the way to the floor or all the way up, and nothing in between. The Miata is a momentum car where you’re either all on or all off most of the time.

(That condo I bought for $125k had a cash flow of 4-7% all the way until I sold it…for $315k via a 1031 exchange to something better. If I bought the 911s, it probably would have been worth $75k at the same time I sold the condo.)

… the lesson to learn is as the saying goes : “Miata is always the answer”
… And when it’s not, “Porsche. There is no substitute”

[Coronita]

scardey.

2023 Prius.

https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/prius/section/gallery/slide/2

[sdrealtor]

Can we please get back to minivans?

[barnaby33]

The Prius looks really nice! We’ll they make a Minivan version of it?
Josh

[spdrun]

Looks pretty, but the rear windows seem like they’re claustrophobic as hell, and not good for visibility. What looks pretty from the outside isn’t always terribly functional.

[phaster]

[quote=spdrun]Looks pretty, but the rear windows seem like they’re claustrophobic as hell, and not good for visibility. What looks pretty from the outside isn’t always terribly functional.[/quote]

the shape of cars like the pious are due often times are due to the fact that designers want the vehicle to have the lowest aerodynamic drag as possible because low aerodynamic drag means lower engine power is needed to propel the vehicle forward for a given speed,…

12 Cars With Lowest Drag Force (With Pictures)

said another way lower engine power requirements mean increased gas mileage

outside visibility is another engineering design consideration, which is why the older exterior design of the pious has a rear window, that made the overall appearance “functionally ugly” (but helped the drivers “situational awareness”)

https://priuschat.com/threads/how-long-did-it-take-for-you-to-get-used-to-the-split-rear-window.113958/

since consumers are vein,… sex appeal (over function) is a trade off many are willing to make

With the new sex appeal of the pious, pretty certain the its going to be very popular w/ consumers,… even though the 2023 pious redesign isn’t going to be as functional or reliable (I mention this because the outgoing design of the pious used NIMH batteries which are more robust than Lithium-Ion batteries which are more energy dense)

[spdrun]

And American consumers are the very worst as far as vanity. Spoiled brats.

[svelte]

[quote=Coronita]scardey.

2023 Prius.

https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/prius/section/gallery/slide/2
[/quote]

My kids were talking about the new Prius at Thanksgiving – really a sharp vehicle! Kudos to Toyota!

I’ve been a long-term Prius hater because they were just so darn ugly. I mean purposely ugly. With small wheels even.

But this new one is just the opposite. Every line is very attractive. Especially the sides where that line kicks up to meet the rear bumper seam. And even the way the perfectly square door cuts across that character line where it kicks up.

I always joke with my sons that designers can usually get either the front end or the back end right, but not both. It’s like they have a great concept for one end of the car but by the time they get to the other end they can’t figure out another good design to match the opposite end. Well the new Prius doesn’t have that problem. Front, back, sides, all good! That’s rare.

[Coronita]

[quote=svelte][quote=Coronita]scardey.

2023 Prius.

https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/prius/section/gallery/slide/2
[/quote]

My kids were talking about the new Prius at Thanksgiving – really a sharp vehicle! Kudos to Toyota!

I’ve been a long-term Prius hater because they were just so darn ugly. I mean purposely ugly. With small wheels even.

But this new one is just the opposite. Every line is very attractive. Especially the sides where that line kicks up to meet the rear bumper seam. And even the way the perfectly square door cuts across that character line where it kicks up.

I always joke with my sons that designers can usually get either the front end or the back end right, but not both. It’s like they have a great concept for one end of the car but by the time they get to the other end they can’t figure out another good design to match the opposite end. Well the new Prius doesn’t have that problem. Front, back, sides, all good! That’s rare.[/quote]

I’m not a fan of the back it could use a little polish. But side profile looks good

[Coronita]

Iihs released it’s latest crash test results about rear occupant safety. Only the Ford escape and Volvo xc40 received good. Toyota RAV4 received acceptable . Everyone else got poor.

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/13/iihs-updated-overlap-test-results/

[svelte]

Another option? Buy a used Tesla…their value dropped 10% from Oct 2022 to Nov 2022. That’s enormous!

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=svelte]Another option? Buy a used Tesla…their value dropped 10% from Oct 2022 to Nov 2022. That’s enormous![/quote]

No way.

[svelte]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=svelte]Another option? Buy a used Tesla…their value dropped 10% from Oct 2022 to Nov 2022. That’s enormous![/quote]

No way.[/quote]

I’m with you there. No Teslas in my future either.

[Coronita]

[quote=svelte][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=svelte]Another option? Buy a used Tesla…their value dropped 10% from Oct 2022 to Nov 2022. That’s enormous![/quote]

No way.[/quote]

I’m with you there. No Teslas in my future either.[/quote]

Ditto

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Coronita][quote=svelte][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=svelte]Another option? Buy a used Tesla…their value dropped 10% from Oct 2022 to Nov 2022. That’s enormous![/quote]

No way.[/quote]

I’m with you there. No Teslas in my future either.[/quote]

Ditto[/quote]

I hate Elon musk so much a Tesla would have to cost $18k post credit to be considered.

[The-Shoveler]

I like the Prius, but I wish it had more room in the trunk like some Prius-V’s.

I like the Idea of not having to keep searching for a charging station or trying to schedule enough time to make sure I can get to my destinations.

If I had an EV I think I would want to have a second car hybrid probably just in case.

[Coronita]

[quote=The-Shoveler]I like the Prius, but I wish it had more room in the trunk like some Prius-V’s.

I like the Idea of not having to keep searching for a charging station or trying to schedule enough time to make sure I can get to my destinations.

If I had an EV I think I would want to have a second car hybrid probably just in case.[/quote]

I’m not convinced that EV is the end all solution … I think there will have to be some improvement to ICE engines and fuel.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Coronita][quote=The-Shoveler]I like the Prius, but I wish it had more room in the trunk like some Prius-V’s.

I like the Idea of not having to keep searching for a charging station or trying to schedule enough time to make sure I can get to my destinations.

If I had an EV I think I would want to have a second car hybrid probably just in case.[/quote]

I’m not convinced that EV is the end all solution … I think there will have to be some improvement to ICE engines and fuel.[/quote]

I had bought a Prius prime plug in hybrid about 3 years ago. Got wrecked. Anyway it was awesome in terms of combination. Almost all my trips I used less than the 28 mile battery. Recharged overnight on regular plug. Sometimes I wouldn’t get gas for a month or two. Was only like 19k after tax credit. Wish I still had it. Didn’t replace at the time. For some reason insurance paid out 28k

I used to be gaming the battery and when I was almost home, I’d be as excited as world cup level like I’d make it home without using gas. Driving super efficiently. Praying to the Lord for fair tailwinds. My wife thought my drama over this was insufferably idiotic. If the engine kicked in a few blocks from home, I’d be cursing and banging the steering wheel like I’d lost 5k at blackjack

Kinda dumb I know. But I actually found it fun. I guess I’m hard to live with. Good thing I’m not in the dating pool.

[Myriad]

[quote=Coronita]
I’m not convinced that EV is the end all solution … I think there will have to be some improvement to ICE engines and fuel.[/quote]

That’s not likely. ICE there’s not much left in pure ICE vehicles to improve efficiency/emissions. Currently already near the realistic efficiency limits of thermodynamics of ICE.
However, at this stage in the battery dev cycle, moving every car to a hybrid is better than full EVs. You could get to higher global fuel economy and lower emissions faster than pure EVs. Especially when the EVs coming out are primarily luxury and heavy vehicles.
In 20 years, if solid state batteries are cheap enough, ICE will be obsolete.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=The-Shoveler]I like the Prius, but I wish it had more room in the trunk like some Prius-V’s.

I like the Idea of not having to keep searching for a charging station or trying to schedule enough time to make sure I can get to my destinations.

If I had an EV I think I would want to have a second car hybrid probably just in case.[/quote]

I have an extra old ICE in the driveway and struggle to get it on the road even once a month to the coffee shop so it gets some use. My tesla is a joy. I take trips and use it daily. Finding charging stations, scheduling and any other concerns have never been an issue for me. I had more issues with getting gas. My car is full and ready to go every morning

[svelte]

I am really OK with the move to EV. Not crazy about it being forced upon people, but I can see it is about time for ICE to yield the floor – just thinking about how an internal combustion engine works – it is ancient technology.

The transition is not likely to be all that smooth and we’re already seeing that. So hang on for another 10 years or so as its gonna be a bumpy ride.

[Hobie]

.

[svelte]

Looks like it hasn’t been mentioned yet so I’ll do it now:

Don’t buy through Carvana. That company appears to be about to go under and you don’t want to be in the middle of a transaction when that happens.

Oh, and they seem to have a problem supplying the vehicle title to customers…

[spdrun]

Carvana — good riddance … the Wall Street funded used car dealers were buying up all of the used inventory, then reselling at inflated prices. Let them burn in Hell and go into liquidation.

Companies like Carvana and Carmax basically combine all of the scumbaggery of Wall Street and Curbstone Joe’s Used Car Lot in one ugly package.

They get glowing (like the glow of Cerenkov Radiation) reviews on Reddit, from sellers. Pity the poor buyers of the cars mentioned below.

https://old.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/zo902s/carvana_has_started_liquidation_process_selling/

—
“Yeah they gave me way more than my car was worth. Thing had a cracked windshield, dents, engine knocked, high mileage and they priced it like it was brand new.

No clue how they made any money, if they ever did.”

—
“I sold a 2019 Mazda6 to them about a year and a half ago. I purchased it for just under 20k and sold it for 23k. The guy who picked it up showed up with the check and handed it to me no questions asked.

I asked if he wanted me to open up the car, pop the hood, or anything. He said no. And he towed it away.

I deposited the check right away and never heard from them again.

Strange experience.”

[Coronita]

[quote=svelte]Looks like it hasn’t been mentioned yet so I’ll do it now:

Don’t buy through Carvana. That company appears to be about to go under and you don’t want to be in the middle of a transaction when that happens.

Oh, and they seem to have a problem supplying the vehicle title to customers…[/quote]

Their stock tanked from 300ish to $5..should have shorted it.. come on the CEO is a convicted felon. I so missed that one.

My friends were laughing their assses off because they sold their Mazda mx5 to carvana for more than they bought it for preowned, complete with the slipping manual transmission…..they don’t really check over the car….reminds me of carorder.com who gave me a $6000 subsidy check to order an Audi from them instead of direct from the dealer so they could claim I was their repeat customer and add to their “revenue” numbers..

[gzz]

My advice is to wait 6 months to buy a car. The car market is experiencing extreme unprecedented deflation right now.

Carvana is in major financial distress and may go from a huge net buyer of late model cars to mass liquidation.

Lots of people underwater on subprime auto loans too, 20% and more APR.

Unlike with homes, you can let your car loan default and immediately get another car loan. Subprime auto loans are less regulated than mortgages.

[svelte]

Look at this looong list of EVs coming out in 2023!

2023 will be the year the tide turns…it will be the EV age from here on out.

They will all be vying for market share so this is another thing pointing to better new car deals next year.

There are some very nice EV choices in the 2023 list!

[Author]

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