Back to the Office for Tech Workers

[sdrealtor]

[quote=deadzone][quote=an][quote=deadzone]
Strawman my ass. The number of people fully working from home is going down. Period. Companies are bringing folks back to the office, in droves, that have been working fully from home for 2 years. That’s the whole point. What is this so hard to understand? If you claim fully remote workers were a significant factor in SD (or any other city’s) RE gains over the last 2 years, you can’t also claim that remote workers going back to the office won’t have a negative impact. You can’t have it both ways.[/quote]
Of course number wfh went down. Everyone (except for essential workers) were either WFH or not working. So, yes, it is a strawman cuz no one is arguing with you about that. You’re arguing against yourself on that one. Which is the exact definition of strawman.[/quote]

No, actually people on this site have been arguing this. Many here don’t really understand mathematics. They think just because the WFH folks who moved here aren’t necessarily going back to Bay area, that this is good for the housing market. It doesn’t mean squat becauese they’ve already bought their houses. What matter is growth (positive or negative) going forward. The point is there will be less and less future opportunities to move from Bay Area to SanDiego (or whereever) to wfH going forward so there will be far less demand than there was during Covid.[/quote]

And you dont understand how thinly traded real estate is. My zip code has nearly 50,000 residents. There are currently 3 houses on the market (all way overpriced) and 40 in escrow. You dont really understand mathematics. This is the way its been for quite some time. A nice house comes on the market and dozens flock to see it but it goes to the person with the most money. There is only 1 winner and dozens of losers each time. Every week through life events, people moving up (or down in some cases) a small amount trickles on with hoards awaiting and the hoards are growing. We dont need huge numbers of arrivals from the north to change our markets. One or two a month for any reason change our market. Residents are locked in with sub 3% mortgages, low tax bills and huge potential capital gain taxes. Few want to or have a reason to sell. The point is there will be less and less future housing opportunities to move from Bay Area to San Diego so its perfectly fine that there is far less demand than there was during Covid. The market is not set by the “smart conservative guy” its set by the the “richest dumbass”

[barnaby33]

ou tech guys have reading comprehension issues. I said the prima-donnas are the ones who threaten to quit if “forced” to work from the office a couple times a week. Think their skills are so unique, rare and irreplaceable that they can get any job they want. I see a lot of this attitude lately and it reminds me of the late 90s when engineers were hopping between multiple startups every few months chasing higher salary and stock options. Until the shit hit the fan.

Sure most employees would prefer to work at home in their pijamas all day, save gas, avoid rush hour traffic, jerk off during lunch break, etc. But the fact is corporate management is not in favor of that because they know it is not the most productive situation. That’s why they are calling their employees back to the office now that Covid is over. You guys can whine about it all you want, but it isn’t going to change the fact that fully remote work is going to be the exception, not the norm, going forward.

I guess I’m not cut out for tech, I seldom wait for lunch to jerk off and I wear sweats, not pajama’s. Mgmt tends to be conservative in that it fears that someone, somewhere is having more fun than them. If you’re following the actual trends in tech for the most part remote work is here to stay. At the beginning of the pandemic, most jobs said, “remote for now.” After a year most were, “occassional office time.” Now the solid majority are full remote or mostly remote. Once you build a culture that deals well with it, your company can hire and fire wherever it wants. It’s a competitive perk for both sides and that is why I seriously doubt it’s going away.
Primadonna

[Coronita]

Pay no attention to small companies that allow 40% of their workforce to work from home… Like American Express…

lol

https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2022/mar/13/american-express-workers-go-remote/

[quote]
American Express workers go remote
40% choose to work outside of office, prompting office, technology upgrades by Bloomberg
[/quote]

[Coronita]

Meanwhile, twitter wfh is permanent…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/03/05/twitter-employees-can-work-from-home-forever-or-wherever-you-feel-most-productive-and-creative/?sh=142084d215e4

[quote]
Twitter Employees Can Work From Home ‘Forever’ Or ‘Wherever You Feel Most Productive And Creative’
[/quote]

[Coronita]

oh oh… Apparently all is not well at Google…

https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/google-employees-upset-remote-work

[quote]

Employees raised their complaints at a company all-hands last Thursday, submitting questions through a system called Dory. Two popular questions involved remote work, according to Insider.

“Google made record profits through the pandemic (and WFH), traffic has already increased (at least in Bay Area) with gas prices at record high, and people have different preferences for WFH vs work from office,” one question said. “Why is the RTO policy not ‘Work from office when you want or when it makes sense to?'” Another submitter said some teams “blanket ban” remote work, with Google rejecting applications “even if managers are supportive.”

Workers told Insider that Google’s remote work policies felt arbitrary. One employee said a colleague was barred from remote work even though their manager was allowed to work from home. Bay Area employees who wish to work remotely from other states might face pay cuts: Google will lower pay if employees relocate to cities like Durham, North Carolina, and Houston, Texas.

This isn’t the first time Google’s remote work plans have upset its employees. In July, CNET reported that employees were angered by “hypocritical” remote work policies, allowing senior executive Urs Hölzle to work indefinitely from New Zealand while lower-level employees had to go through an application process.
[/quote]

Time for Google folks to quit and go elsewhere and free up some jobs.

[Coronita]

Also, pay no attention to this report that comes from a small company that’s called Microsoft…lol…

https://redmondmag.com/articles/2022/03/16/microsoft-report-advises-orgs-to-support-flexible-work-trends.aspx

[an]

Fake news!

Not to mention the fake news about the market going bonkers after the Fed raises rates.

[CDMA ENG]

I didnt read all 13 pages of this thread but I read the first five and the last two…

One thing that I didnt hear mention of was that many companies saw an increase in productivity…

Why? Because most of us only have X hours in a day to devoted to work. If I have to get up and get ready that is time given to the company. I have to commute… again time given to the company… For me the maximum at work day I could give was 9 hours. I was commuting to Irvine from north county. So all said and done… about 11.5 hours a day went to the company.

If I now can remote… I can give 10 hours to the company and I get 1.5 hours back… Win Win.

That is an exchange that people want in tech.

There is a good portion of us that had to go into the work. Your bench engineers that have 100K in equipment to work with had to go in. There was no remoting for that but many could do design work from home or even remote into our equipment.

Remoting is here to stay because productivity went up. If companies see a decline then people will be called back.

CDMA ENG

[JPJones]

[quote=Coronita]oh oh… Apparently all is not well at Google…

https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/google-employees-upset-remote-work

[quote]

Employees raised their complaints at a company all-hands last Thursday, submitting questions through a system called Dory. Two popular questions involved remote work, according to Insider.

“Google made record profits through the pandemic (and WFH), traffic has already increased (at least in Bay Area) with gas prices at record high, and people have different preferences for WFH vs work from office,” one question said. “Why is the RTO policy not ‘Work from office when you want or when it makes sense to?'” Another submitter said some teams “blanket ban” remote work, with Google rejecting applications “even if managers are supportive.”

Workers told Insider that Google’s remote work policies felt arbitrary. One employee said a colleague was barred from remote work even though their manager was allowed to work from home. Bay Area employees who wish to work remotely from other states might face pay cuts: Google will lower pay if employees relocate to cities like Durham, North Carolina, and Houston, Texas.

This isn’t the first time Google’s remote work plans have upset its employees. In July, CNET reported that employees were angered by “hypocritical” remote work policies, allowing senior executive Urs Hölzle to work indefinitely from New Zealand while lower-level employees had to go through an application process.
[/quote]

Time for Google folks to quit and go elsewhere and free up some jobs.[/quote]

Man, I KNEW there was a reason he didn’t take my bet! Bugger!

[JPJones]

[quote=CDMA ENG]I didnt read all 13 pages of this thread but I read the first five and the last two…

One thing that I didnt hear mention of was that many companies saw an increase in productivity…

Why? Because most of us only have X hours in a day to devoted to work. If I have to get up and get ready that is time given to the company. I have to commute… again time given to the company… For me the maximum at work day I could give was 9 hours. I was commuting to Irvine from north county. So all said and done… about 11.5 hours a day went to the company.

If I now can remote… I can give 10 hours to the company and I get 1.5 hours back… Win Win.

That is an exchange that people want in tech.

There is a good portion of us that had to go into the work. Your bench engineers that have 100K in equipment to work with had to go in. There was no remoting for that but many could do design work from home or even remote into our equipment.

Remoting is here to stay because productivity went up. If companies see a decline then people will be called back.

CDMA ENG[/quote]

It was mentioned here a couple pages ago. I was thinking about asking him for a source, but at this point I can’t be bothered.

[quote=deadzone][quote=barnaby33]Deadzone you really do have an axe to grind. Wow, primadonnas? I don’t know about the rest of the tech industry but I am straight of back, white of tooth and above all modest.

I offered you a rebuttal and then you said it was irrelevant. You sir are veering off into incoherence. I may be wrong but I’ve been around in tech a long time. Salaries aren’t actually that high now. During the 90’s contract software engineers (more senior than me at the time but certainly less so than me now) could regularly find 100+/hr contracts. Those are few and far between these days. Plus the cost of living has what tripled? Salaries have really stagnated and compressed. Sure a college grad now gets 80k to start but trying to find jobs above 140k is still difficult. I think you think that everyone works at FAANG or that’s the impression I get.
Josh[/quote]

You tech guys have reading comprehension issues. I said the prima-donnas are the ones who threaten to quit if “forced” to work from the office a couple times a week. Think their skills are so unique, rare and irreplaceable that they can get any job they want. I see a lot of this attitude lately and it reminds me of the late 90s when engineers were hopping between multiple startups every few months chasing higher salary and stock options. Until the shit hit the fan.

Sure most employees would prefer to work at home in their pijamas all day, save gas, avoid rush hour traffic, jerk off during lunch break, etc. But the fact is corporate management is not in favor of that because they know it is not the most productive situation. That’s why they are calling their employees back to the office now that Covid is over. You guys can whine about it all you want, but it isn’t going to change the fact that fully remote work is going to be the exception, not the norm, going forward.[/quote]

[JPJones]

*I keep failing at not double-posting. Sorry!

[spdrun]

For me the maximum at work day I could give was 9 hours. I was commuting to Irvine from north county. So all said and done… about 11.5 hours a day went to the company.

If I now can remote… I can give 10 hours to the company and I get 1.5 hours back… Win Win.

The company is saving on office space costs, yet they still expect you to work longer for them? How about they save on the office space and you STILL get to work 9 hours, not have your work day expand.

Remember, the person who used to live 15 min from work is being fucked by the expansion from 9 to 10 hours, even if you’re not.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=spdrun]

For me the maximum at work day I could give was 9 hours. I was commuting to Irvine from north county. So all said and done… about 11.5 hours a day went to the company.

If I now can remote… I can give 10 hours to the company and I get 1.5 hours back… Win Win.

The company is saving on office space costs, yet they still expect you to work longer for them? How about they save on the office space and you STILL get to work 9 hours, not have your work day expand.

Remember, the person who used to live 15 min from work is being fucked by the expansion from 9 to 10 hours, even if you’re not.[/quote]

I work longer hours because the team of people that I supported were people I respected and actually love. What hours I give to the company to get ahead or to support my friends are purely my business and my decision.

I know you are a big workers right advocate and respect that but there are some of us that are go getters.

My hours my choice.

CE

[flyer]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=deadzone][quote=an][quote=deadzone]
Strawman my ass. The number of people fully working from home is going down. Period. Companies are bringing folks back to the office, in droves, that have been working fully from home for 2 years. That’s the whole point. What is this so hard to understand? If you claim fully remote workers were a significant factor in SD (or any other city’s) RE gains over the last 2 years, you can’t also claim that remote workers going back to the office won’t have a negative impact. You can’t have it both ways.[/quote]
Of course number wfh went down. Everyone (except for essential workers) were either WFH or not working. So, yes, it is a strawman cuz no one is arguing with you about that. You’re arguing against yourself on that one. Which is the exact definition of strawman.[/quote]

No, actually people on this site have been arguing this. Many here don’t really understand mathematics. They think just because the WFH folks who moved here aren’t necessarily going back to Bay area, that this is good for the housing market. It doesn’t mean squat becauese they’ve already bought their houses. What matter is growth (positive or negative) going forward. The point is there will be less and less future opportunities to move from Bay Area to SanDiego (or whereever) to wfH going forward so there will be far less demand than there was during Covid.[/quote]

And you dont understand how thinly traded real estate is. My zip code has nearly 50,000 residents. There are currently 3 houses on the market (all way overpriced) and 40 in escrow. You dont really understand mathematics. This is the way its been for quite some time. A nice house comes on the market and dozens flock to see it but it goes to the person with the most money. There is only 1 winner and dozens of losers each time. Every week through life events, people moving up (or down in some cases) a small amount trickles on with hoards awaiting and the hoards are growing. We dont need huge numbers of arrivals from the north to change our markets. One or two a month for any reason change our market. Residents are locked in with sub 3% mortgages, low tax bills and huge potential capital gain taxes. Few want to or have a reason to sell. The point is there will be less and less future housing opportunities to move from Bay Area to San Diego so its perfectly fine that there is far less demand than there was during Covid. The market is not set by the “smart conservative guy” its set by the the “richest dumbass”[/quote]

Agree, sdr, and another point to support “less and less future housing opportunities” going forward, is, many, many of us–including friends, relatives, neighbors etc., etc.,–never, ever plan to sell our real estate holdings–especially in San Diego–but plan to pass everything along to our families, and these decisions have absolutely nothing to do with whether tech or other workers will ultimately work from home or in the office. Not even a minor consideration.

[sdrealtor]

You are locked in by high capital gain taxes and low property taxes. Death and prop 19 changes that but it’s gonna take a while. Someday the future Silver Spooners in your family will sell them maybe sooner than you think. But it’s not gonna happen en masse for at least a decade or two. Not our problem

[Author]

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