4S Ranch–Builders not negotiating

[4spotentialbuyer]

We have been going to look at the available homes from the builders in 4S Ranch on a monthly basis for over 6 months now. In the winter months, the former salesperson at Pienza told us to make an offer as incentives were “negotiable.” Our friend bought one home at the end of December as the salesperson told her that builders were more likely to make concessions in December and if you waited until the near year, there would be less likely to make concessions. We did not think that was true, however, today, when we went to look at Pienza, the salespeople (who recognized us) just said that incentives were 15K and did not even try to help us out. They were downright hostile, rude, and acted as if this was a seller’s market…maybe because they knew we were looking to get a good deal. Are sales people at the buidlers paid on commission? Do they not want to negotiate because they will get less commsion? Despite the fact that they have 14 homes available, some which never sold in previous sales release and some that came back on the market as the buyer backed out….this builder acted as if they were holding all the cards and they could pick and choose their buyers. We are getting frustrated while waiting as it looks like prices are not coming down and that the deals were better in December 2007. Keep in mind that these are 3000 sq foot homes starting around 740K to 840K…not sure how they will find qualified buyers and yet they seem to think they will find many buyers.

[Anonymous]

It’s both amusing and frustrating for me when I see salespeople at new developments behave like this. I don’t know if they are instructed to do so, or they just do it out of their own resentment of the party being over. But the few sales people I have interacted with recently have this defensive attitude and big goofy grin on their face, and try their best to ignore the elephant in the room…that the bubble is over and a buyer with good credit and a large down $ holds all the cards now. Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.

[TheBreeze]

I wouldn’t expect these guys to budge any on price now that the conforming loan limits are set to increase. You may have to wait until the end of the year to get a decent deal.

Alternatively, maybe there will be tons of qualified buyers under the new conforming guidelines and they’ll sell off those 14 homes in no time. Your tax dollars at work against you.

[TheBreeze]

I wouldn’t expect these guys to budge any on price now that the conforming loan limits are set to increase. You may have to wait until the end of the year to get a decent deal.

Alternatively, maybe there will be tons of qualified buyers under the new conforming guidelines and they’ll sell off those 14 homes in no time. Your tax dollars at work against you.

[TheBreeze]

I wouldn’t expect these guys to budge any on price now that the conforming loan limits are set to increase. You may have to wait until the end of the year to get a decent deal.

Alternatively, maybe there will be tons of qualified buyers under the new conforming guidelines and they’ll sell off those 14 homes in no time. Your tax dollars at work against you.

[TheBreeze]

I wouldn’t expect these guys to budge any on price now that the conforming loan limits are set to increase. You may have to wait until the end of the year to get a decent deal.

Alternatively, maybe there will be tons of qualified buyers under the new conforming guidelines and they’ll sell off those 14 homes in no time. Your tax dollars at work against you.

[TheBreeze]

I wouldn’t expect these guys to budge any on price now that the conforming loan limits are set to increase. You may have to wait until the end of the year to get a decent deal.

Alternatively, maybe there will be tons of qualified buyers under the new conforming guidelines and they’ll sell off those 14 homes in no time. Your tax dollars at work against you.

[Anonymous]

“Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.” — the original poster is not talking about Temecula, Murrieta, Chula Vista …i m sure you get it

[NewtoSanDiego]

4spotentialbuyer,
You sound pretty desperate to buy a house in 4S. Perhaps the salesperson senses that, in that case they hold all the cards. I recently toured 4s, I was not impressed. Plus you are in high wildfire risk area., there were vast burn areas in surrounding areas. Why on earth anyone in their right mind choose to live near there? I personally have redlined areas of San Diego county due to wildfire risk.

[nostradamus]

Yes, unfortunately it might be that they smell a sure-thing when you walk in the door. These are sales people.

Maybe you should put your pen and checkbook away, lose the pad of paper, muss your hair and dress down like you just don’t care. Also don’t show up in a moving truck.

[nostradamus]

Yes, unfortunately it might be that they smell a sure-thing when you walk in the door. These are sales people.

Maybe you should put your pen and checkbook away, lose the pad of paper, muss your hair and dress down like you just don’t care. Also don’t show up in a moving truck.

[nostradamus]

Yes, unfortunately it might be that they smell a sure-thing when you walk in the door. These are sales people.

Maybe you should put your pen and checkbook away, lose the pad of paper, muss your hair and dress down like you just don’t care. Also don’t show up in a moving truck.

[nostradamus]

Yes, unfortunately it might be that they smell a sure-thing when you walk in the door. These are sales people.

Maybe you should put your pen and checkbook away, lose the pad of paper, muss your hair and dress down like you just don’t care. Also don’t show up in a moving truck.

[nostradamus]

Yes, unfortunately it might be that they smell a sure-thing when you walk in the door. These are sales people.

Maybe you should put your pen and checkbook away, lose the pad of paper, muss your hair and dress down like you just don’t care. Also don’t show up in a moving truck.

[gn]

4spotentialbuyer,

I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” 🙂

[flyer]

We have friends who bought in 4S last year, (not Pienza) and actually seemed to get a better deal than builders are offering now. Not really sure what’s going on with pricing at the moment, but I still wouldn’t hesitate to make an offer to the builder if you are serious. Get the name of the VP of Sales, or higher up, (that’s what our friends did) and present the offer directly to them, and see if you can make the deal you want.

As far as the fire concerns go, we own a home in Rancho Santa Fe, and we have fire concerns, too. Even some friends in Del Mar, Santaluz and the Crosby were evacuated during the past fires. If you can stand the traffic/long drive times and airport noise, you’d probably be better off buying in Carlsbad or Oceanside, if this concerns you. Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Useful advice—thanks for the useful advice…we may do that if we do not see a price reduction. I don’t think the salespeople think we are desperate to buy as last time the salesperson tried to talk us into a house that fell out of escrow and we told him straight out that we are not interested in that floorplan, the price was too high, and when he stated that they had no problems selling 3-4 homes per month, we told him straight to his face that he was not selling 3-4 homes/month net when they have 1-2 people dropping out from escrow and that the previous salesperson had made us a better offer. Maybe they resent us speaking the truth…

We are starting to look around at resells as we want to get a better deal–we can’t say we want the “best” deal as we are not sure when the bottom of the market will hit with the way the federal government insists on a bail out.

[paramount]

“Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.”

You should be grateful to live anywhere in this Great Country.

[paramount]

“Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.”

You should be grateful to live anywhere in this Great Country.

[paramount]

“Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.”

You should be grateful to live anywhere in this Great Country.

[paramount]

“Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.”

You should be grateful to live anywhere in this Great Country.

[paramount]

“Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.”

You should be grateful to live anywhere in this Great Country.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Useful advice—thanks for the useful advice…we may do that if we do not see a price reduction. I don’t think the salespeople think we are desperate to buy as last time the salesperson tried to talk us into a house that fell out of escrow and we told him straight out that we are not interested in that floorplan, the price was too high, and when he stated that they had no problems selling 3-4 homes per month, we told him straight to his face that he was not selling 3-4 homes/month net when they have 1-2 people dropping out from escrow and that the previous salesperson had made us a better offer. Maybe they resent us speaking the truth…

We are starting to look around at resells as we want to get a better deal–we can’t say we want the “best” deal as we are not sure when the bottom of the market will hit with the way the federal government insists on a bail out.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Useful advice—thanks for the useful advice…we may do that if we do not see a price reduction. I don’t think the salespeople think we are desperate to buy as last time the salesperson tried to talk us into a house that fell out of escrow and we told him straight out that we are not interested in that floorplan, the price was too high, and when he stated that they had no problems selling 3-4 homes per month, we told him straight to his face that he was not selling 3-4 homes/month net when they have 1-2 people dropping out from escrow and that the previous salesperson had made us a better offer. Maybe they resent us speaking the truth…

We are starting to look around at resells as we want to get a better deal–we can’t say we want the “best” deal as we are not sure when the bottom of the market will hit with the way the federal government insists on a bail out.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Useful advice—thanks for the useful advice…we may do that if we do not see a price reduction. I don’t think the salespeople think we are desperate to buy as last time the salesperson tried to talk us into a house that fell out of escrow and we told him straight out that we are not interested in that floorplan, the price was too high, and when he stated that they had no problems selling 3-4 homes per month, we told him straight to his face that he was not selling 3-4 homes/month net when they have 1-2 people dropping out from escrow and that the previous salesperson had made us a better offer. Maybe they resent us speaking the truth…

We are starting to look around at resells as we want to get a better deal–we can’t say we want the “best” deal as we are not sure when the bottom of the market will hit with the way the federal government insists on a bail out.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Useful advice—thanks for the useful advice…we may do that if we do not see a price reduction. I don’t think the salespeople think we are desperate to buy as last time the salesperson tried to talk us into a house that fell out of escrow and we told him straight out that we are not interested in that floorplan, the price was too high, and when he stated that they had no problems selling 3-4 homes per month, we told him straight to his face that he was not selling 3-4 homes/month net when they have 1-2 people dropping out from escrow and that the previous salesperson had made us a better offer. Maybe they resent us speaking the truth…

We are starting to look around at resells as we want to get a better deal–we can’t say we want the “best” deal as we are not sure when the bottom of the market will hit with the way the federal government insists on a bail out.

[flyer]

We have friends who bought in 4S last year, (not Pienza) and actually seemed to get a better deal than builders are offering now. Not really sure what’s going on with pricing at the moment, but I still wouldn’t hesitate to make an offer to the builder if you are serious. Get the name of the VP of Sales, or higher up, (that’s what our friends did) and present the offer directly to them, and see if you can make the deal you want.

As far as the fire concerns go, we own a home in Rancho Santa Fe, and we have fire concerns, too. Even some friends in Del Mar, Santaluz and the Crosby were evacuated during the past fires. If you can stand the traffic/long drive times and airport noise, you’d probably be better off buying in Carlsbad or Oceanside, if this concerns you. Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.

[flyer]

We have friends who bought in 4S last year, (not Pienza) and actually seemed to get a better deal than builders are offering now. Not really sure what’s going on with pricing at the moment, but I still wouldn’t hesitate to make an offer to the builder if you are serious. Get the name of the VP of Sales, or higher up, (that’s what our friends did) and present the offer directly to them, and see if you can make the deal you want.

As far as the fire concerns go, we own a home in Rancho Santa Fe, and we have fire concerns, too. Even some friends in Del Mar, Santaluz and the Crosby were evacuated during the past fires. If you can stand the traffic/long drive times and airport noise, you’d probably be better off buying in Carlsbad or Oceanside, if this concerns you. Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.

[flyer]

We have friends who bought in 4S last year, (not Pienza) and actually seemed to get a better deal than builders are offering now. Not really sure what’s going on with pricing at the moment, but I still wouldn’t hesitate to make an offer to the builder if you are serious. Get the name of the VP of Sales, or higher up, (that’s what our friends did) and present the offer directly to them, and see if you can make the deal you want.

As far as the fire concerns go, we own a home in Rancho Santa Fe, and we have fire concerns, too. Even some friends in Del Mar, Santaluz and the Crosby were evacuated during the past fires. If you can stand the traffic/long drive times and airport noise, you’d probably be better off buying in Carlsbad or Oceanside, if this concerns you. Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.

[flyer]

We have friends who bought in 4S last year, (not Pienza) and actually seemed to get a better deal than builders are offering now. Not really sure what’s going on with pricing at the moment, but I still wouldn’t hesitate to make an offer to the builder if you are serious. Get the name of the VP of Sales, or higher up, (that’s what our friends did) and present the offer directly to them, and see if you can make the deal you want.

As far as the fire concerns go, we own a home in Rancho Santa Fe, and we have fire concerns, too. Even some friends in Del Mar, Santaluz and the Crosby were evacuated during the past fires. If you can stand the traffic/long drive times and airport noise, you’d probably be better off buying in Carlsbad or Oceanside, if this concerns you. Personally, I’d never live north of Via de la Valle, or south of 56.

[gn]

4spotentialbuyer,

I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” 🙂

[gn]

4spotentialbuyer,

I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” 🙂

[gn]

4spotentialbuyer,

I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” 🙂

[gn]

4spotentialbuyer,

I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” 🙂

[4Sbuyer2002]

Aside from coastal areas of SD. 4S Ranch is probably one of the safest places in San Diego county when it comes to fire danger. Not a single home in 4S burned in the last fire. Moreover, every home has an extensive sprinkler system which has already successfully doused housefires started by dense homeowners. If you are worried about avoiding “fire danger” then 4S Ranch should be at the top of your list.

See this extensive thread on the topic.

http://piggington.com/4_closure_ranch_errr_scratch_that_fire_proof_ranch_new_nickname_

_____________________________

Great PDF Brochure by Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dept. on “Shelter in Place” concept of fire resistant construction found in newer communities within the Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dist. which include

The Bridges
4S Ranch
Cielo
The Crosby Estates
Santa Fe Valley

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/education/preparedness/SIP_for_web.pdf
_______________

New York Times message to world . . . if your going to move to San Diego . . . 4S Ranch is one of 5 communities with “safe homes” from fire which did not burn. Good press for 4S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/weekinreview/28odonnell.html

________________________________

Exclusive homes emerge unscathed as fire-protection concept is tested

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1n25stay.html#

_________________________________

Sprinkler System in 4S Ranch “saves dumb homeowners from themselves.:

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/news/news_releases/2005/100605%20Cayenne%20Creek%20Fire.pdf

“The Fire District encourages the use of sprinklers and other preparedness measures as a means of promoting fire-safe communities.” (Their words not mine)

Another fine example of the fire resistant technology built into 4S Ranch homes and how it gives added protection from fire compared to other homes and other communities in San Diego (even if you have a hair brained home owner throwing burning cigarrete butts onto flammable material in his garage). 4S homes are all separately plumbed with their own fire sprinkler system which is pressurized and distinct from the normal plumbing (I’m sure this cost me a small fortune). The water supply to the sprinkler systems is prioritized at the same level as the fire hydrants on the street. There are dozens of fire sprinklers on the cieling throughout my house including 4 sprinklers in the attic suspended just below the roof and a sprinkler outside of the front door (presumably to give a sprinkler protected escape route through the front door).

“The sprinkler definitely saved this home, and possibly the lives of those in the home,” said Captain Fred Cox, who responded to the call. “If there had not been a working sprinkler system in place, the fire would have spread very rapidly before anyone inside noticed. By that time, it would have been difficult to save the home and those inside could have been severely injured.”

. . .

“This is the fourth time in the last two years that sprinklers have extinguished a structure fire within the RSFFPD. In each scenario, the heat from the fire activated the nearest sprinkler head, immediately dousing the flames with water, minimizing property loss and injuries.”

Read . . . normal home burns to ground with potential loss of life. Same situation 4S Ranch home = $500 damage to the junk in your garage and a singed hand. Thats the difference between 4S Ranch and other homes not built with the same technology.

grateful owner . . . .

[Anonymous]

4S Buyer 2002 –

Check out Larry reporting on the fires while his 4S Ranch Home is burning…

http://laist.com/2007/10/22/larry_himmel_re.php

I know that Del Sur and Crosby, your neighbor to the west, came out completely unscathed.

As for the Shelter in Place…well brush management is also a good program as it remove the fuel altogether. Personally, I would never take the chance of staying in my home! A fire as hot as the ones we experienced will take anything that comes into it’s path. Many of us were blessed and others perished.

Oh…California is a desert! Check out the Laguna, Malibu, Irvine…etc. North County is not the only area built in an area where fire can take out a community.

[4Sbuyer2002]

Yea . . . but the FACT remains 1) Himmel’s home is NOT part of 4S Ranch. It is perched (was perched) on a hillside surrounded by brush in all directions. A hill above and outside 4S Ranch. His home was not built by 4S builders and was not held to the strict standards touted (not by me) but by the Ranch Santa Fe Fire Marshall himself. Himmel’s home is a complete apples and oranges fallacious analogy. Second fact, the northern edge of 4S Ranch was in the direct path of the fire and YET . . . not one home was even damaged. Many beyond (50+) in Rancho Santa Fe burned to the ground. Third fact, the fire Marshall of Rancho Santa Fe advises people to NOT EVACUATE but to STAY IN YOUR HOME. IF . . . you live in a designated “Shelter in Place” community like 4S Ranch. Pine away all you want about “hot fires” . . . etc. 4S Ranch and the other communities built with the same standards are very well protected from wildfires. If they were in such danger of from wildfires you would think that a) when the worst wildfires in history hit So. California, and b) the homes in northern 4S are in the direct path of said “worst fire” that c) at least one home would be at least damaged . . . right??? But . . . none were. All the proof you need combined with the wise wisdom of a true wildfire expert (Rancho Santa Fe Fire Marshall) that 4S Ranch is as safe as you can be from wildfires AND that it is indeed safer to stay in your home than evacuate. Not my opinion but the facts born by history and the advice of the fire marshall.

grateful owner . . . .

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/rfs/635497937.html

Prarie Springs Corner lot up for 565K. People were trying to get 700 for these last year. Another critical sale for the general area over there, esp since Garden Gate has come close to breaking the 500K barrier.

Also, all the idiots on Fieldthorn still trying to sell those 1500 sq ft condos with mutual driveways for 550 need a reality check. Their neighbors have sold in the high 400s – I assume all of those will be owned by a bank at some point. Same goes for the ones on Manassas and the ones on tallus and saintsbury.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/rfs/635497937.html

Prarie Springs Corner lot up for 565K. People were trying to get 700 for these last year. Another critical sale for the general area over there, esp since Garden Gate has come close to breaking the 500K barrier.

Also, all the idiots on Fieldthorn still trying to sell those 1500 sq ft condos with mutual driveways for 550 need a reality check. Their neighbors have sold in the high 400s – I assume all of those will be owned by a bank at some point. Same goes for the ones on Manassas and the ones on tallus and saintsbury.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/rfs/635497937.html

Prarie Springs Corner lot up for 565K. People were trying to get 700 for these last year. Another critical sale for the general area over there, esp since Garden Gate has come close to breaking the 500K barrier.

Also, all the idiots on Fieldthorn still trying to sell those 1500 sq ft condos with mutual driveways for 550 need a reality check. Their neighbors have sold in the high 400s – I assume all of those will be owned by a bank at some point. Same goes for the ones on Manassas and the ones on tallus and saintsbury.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/rfs/635497937.html

Prarie Springs Corner lot up for 565K. People were trying to get 700 for these last year. Another critical sale for the general area over there, esp since Garden Gate has come close to breaking the 500K barrier.

Also, all the idiots on Fieldthorn still trying to sell those 1500 sq ft condos with mutual driveways for 550 need a reality check. Their neighbors have sold in the high 400s – I assume all of those will be owned by a bank at some point. Same goes for the ones on Manassas and the ones on tallus and saintsbury.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/rfs/635497937.html

Prarie Springs Corner lot up for 565K. People were trying to get 700 for these last year. Another critical sale for the general area over there, esp since Garden Gate has come close to breaking the 500K barrier.

Also, all the idiots on Fieldthorn still trying to sell those 1500 sq ft condos with mutual driveways for 550 need a reality check. Their neighbors have sold in the high 400s – I assume all of those will be owned by a bank at some point. Same goes for the ones on Manassas and the ones on tallus and saintsbury.

[4Sbuyer2002]

Yea . . . but the FACT remains 1) Himmel’s home is NOT part of 4S Ranch. It is perched (was perched) on a hillside surrounded by brush in all directions. A hill above and outside 4S Ranch. His home was not built by 4S builders and was not held to the strict standards touted (not by me) but by the Ranch Santa Fe Fire Marshall himself. Himmel’s home is a complete apples and oranges fallacious analogy. Second fact, the northern edge of 4S Ranch was in the direct path of the fire and YET . . . not one home was even damaged. Many beyond (50+) in Rancho Santa Fe burned to the ground. Third fact, the fire Marshall of Rancho Santa Fe advises people to NOT EVACUATE but to STAY IN YOUR HOME. IF . . . you live in a designated “Shelter in Place” community like 4S Ranch. Pine away all you want about “hot fires” . . . etc. 4S Ranch and the other communities built with the same standards are very well protected from wildfires. If they were in such danger of from wildfires you would think that a) when the worst wildfires in history hit So. California, and b) the homes in northern 4S are in the direct path of said “worst fire” that c) at least one home would be at least damaged . . . right??? But . . . none were. All the proof you need combined with the wise wisdom of a true wildfire expert (Rancho Santa Fe Fire Marshall) that 4S Ranch is as safe as you can be from wildfires AND that it is indeed safer to stay in your home than evacuate. Not my opinion but the facts born by history and the advice of the fire marshall.

grateful owner . . . .

[4Sbuyer2002]

Yea . . . but the FACT remains 1) Himmel’s home is NOT part of 4S Ranch. It is perched (was perched) on a hillside surrounded by brush in all directions. A hill above and outside 4S Ranch. His home was not built by 4S builders and was not held to the strict standards touted (not by me) but by the Ranch Santa Fe Fire Marshall himself. Himmel’s home is a complete apples and oranges fallacious analogy. Second fact, the northern edge of 4S Ranch was in the direct path of the fire and YET . . . not one home was even damaged. Many beyond (50+) in Rancho Santa Fe burned to the ground. Third fact, the fire Marshall of Rancho Santa Fe advises people to NOT EVACUATE but to STAY IN YOUR HOME. IF . . . you live in a designated “Shelter in Place” community like 4S Ranch. Pine away all you want about “hot fires” . . . etc. 4S Ranch and the other communities built with the same standards are very well protected from wildfires. If they were in such danger of from wildfires you would think that a) when the worst wildfires in history hit So. California, and b) the homes in northern 4S are in the direct path of said “worst fire” that c) at least one home would be at least damaged . . . right??? But . . . none were. All the proof you need combined with the wise wisdom of a true wildfire expert (Rancho Santa Fe Fire Marshall) that 4S Ranch is as safe as you can be from wildfires AND that it is indeed safer to stay in your home than evacuate. Not my opinion but the facts born by history and the advice of the fire marshall.

grateful owner . . . .

[4Sbuyer2002]

Yea . . . but the FACT remains 1) Himmel’s home is NOT part of 4S Ranch. It is perched (was perched) on a hillside surrounded by brush in all directions. A hill above and outside 4S Ranch. His home was not built by 4S builders and was not held to the strict standards touted (not by me) but by the Ranch Santa Fe Fire Marshall himself. Himmel’s home is a complete apples and oranges fallacious analogy. Second fact, the northern edge of 4S Ranch was in the direct path of the fire and YET . . . not one home was even damaged. Many beyond (50+) in Rancho Santa Fe burned to the ground. Third fact, the fire Marshall of Rancho Santa Fe advises people to NOT EVACUATE but to STAY IN YOUR HOME. IF . . . you live in a designated “Shelter in Place” community like 4S Ranch. Pine away all you want about “hot fires” . . . etc. 4S Ranch and the other communities built with the same standards are very well protected from wildfires. If they were in such danger of from wildfires you would think that a) when the worst wildfires in history hit So. California, and b) the homes in northern 4S are in the direct path of said “worst fire” that c) at least one home would be at least damaged . . . right??? But . . . none were. All the proof you need combined with the wise wisdom of a true wildfire expert (Rancho Santa Fe Fire Marshall) that 4S Ranch is as safe as you can be from wildfires AND that it is indeed safer to stay in your home than evacuate. Not my opinion but the facts born by history and the advice of the fire marshall.

grateful owner . . . .

[4Sbuyer2002]

Yea . . . but the FACT remains 1) Himmel’s home is NOT part of 4S Ranch. It is perched (was perched) on a hillside surrounded by brush in all directions. A hill above and outside 4S Ranch. His home was not built by 4S builders and was not held to the strict standards touted (not by me) but by the Ranch Santa Fe Fire Marshall himself. Himmel’s home is a complete apples and oranges fallacious analogy. Second fact, the northern edge of 4S Ranch was in the direct path of the fire and YET . . . not one home was even damaged. Many beyond (50+) in Rancho Santa Fe burned to the ground. Third fact, the fire Marshall of Rancho Santa Fe advises people to NOT EVACUATE but to STAY IN YOUR HOME. IF . . . you live in a designated “Shelter in Place” community like 4S Ranch. Pine away all you want about “hot fires” . . . etc. 4S Ranch and the other communities built with the same standards are very well protected from wildfires. If they were in such danger of from wildfires you would think that a) when the worst wildfires in history hit So. California, and b) the homes in northern 4S are in the direct path of said “worst fire” that c) at least one home would be at least damaged . . . right??? But . . . none were. All the proof you need combined with the wise wisdom of a true wildfire expert (Rancho Santa Fe Fire Marshall) that 4S Ranch is as safe as you can be from wildfires AND that it is indeed safer to stay in your home than evacuate. Not my opinion but the facts born by history and the advice of the fire marshall.

grateful owner . . . .

[Anonymous]

4S Buyer 2002 –

Check out Larry reporting on the fires while his 4S Ranch Home is burning…

http://laist.com/2007/10/22/larry_himmel_re.php

I know that Del Sur and Crosby, your neighbor to the west, came out completely unscathed.

As for the Shelter in Place…well brush management is also a good program as it remove the fuel altogether. Personally, I would never take the chance of staying in my home! A fire as hot as the ones we experienced will take anything that comes into it’s path. Many of us were blessed and others perished.

Oh…California is a desert! Check out the Laguna, Malibu, Irvine…etc. North County is not the only area built in an area where fire can take out a community.

[Anonymous]

4S Buyer 2002 –

Check out Larry reporting on the fires while his 4S Ranch Home is burning…

http://laist.com/2007/10/22/larry_himmel_re.php

I know that Del Sur and Crosby, your neighbor to the west, came out completely unscathed.

As for the Shelter in Place…well brush management is also a good program as it remove the fuel altogether. Personally, I would never take the chance of staying in my home! A fire as hot as the ones we experienced will take anything that comes into it’s path. Many of us were blessed and others perished.

Oh…California is a desert! Check out the Laguna, Malibu, Irvine…etc. North County is not the only area built in an area where fire can take out a community.

[Anonymous]

4S Buyer 2002 –

Check out Larry reporting on the fires while his 4S Ranch Home is burning…

http://laist.com/2007/10/22/larry_himmel_re.php

I know that Del Sur and Crosby, your neighbor to the west, came out completely unscathed.

As for the Shelter in Place…well brush management is also a good program as it remove the fuel altogether. Personally, I would never take the chance of staying in my home! A fire as hot as the ones we experienced will take anything that comes into it’s path. Many of us were blessed and others perished.

Oh…California is a desert! Check out the Laguna, Malibu, Irvine…etc. North County is not the only area built in an area where fire can take out a community.

[Anonymous]

4S Buyer 2002 –

Check out Larry reporting on the fires while his 4S Ranch Home is burning…

http://laist.com/2007/10/22/larry_himmel_re.php

I know that Del Sur and Crosby, your neighbor to the west, came out completely unscathed.

As for the Shelter in Place…well brush management is also a good program as it remove the fuel altogether. Personally, I would never take the chance of staying in my home! A fire as hot as the ones we experienced will take anything that comes into it’s path. Many of us were blessed and others perished.

Oh…California is a desert! Check out the Laguna, Malibu, Irvine…etc. North County is not the only area built in an area where fire can take out a community.

[4Sbuyer2002]

Aside from coastal areas of SD. 4S Ranch is probably one of the safest places in San Diego county when it comes to fire danger. Not a single home in 4S burned in the last fire. Moreover, every home has an extensive sprinkler system which has already successfully doused housefires started by dense homeowners. If you are worried about avoiding “fire danger” then 4S Ranch should be at the top of your list.

See this extensive thread on the topic.

http://piggington.com/4_closure_ranch_errr_scratch_that_fire_proof_ranch_new_nickname_

_____________________________

Great PDF Brochure by Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dept. on “Shelter in Place” concept of fire resistant construction found in newer communities within the Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dist. which include

The Bridges
4S Ranch
Cielo
The Crosby Estates
Santa Fe Valley

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/education/preparedness/SIP_for_web.pdf
_______________

New York Times message to world . . . if your going to move to San Diego . . . 4S Ranch is one of 5 communities with “safe homes” from fire which did not burn. Good press for 4S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/weekinreview/28odonnell.html

________________________________

Exclusive homes emerge unscathed as fire-protection concept is tested

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1n25stay.html#

_________________________________

Sprinkler System in 4S Ranch “saves dumb homeowners from themselves.:

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/news/news_releases/2005/100605%20Cayenne%20Creek%20Fire.pdf

“The Fire District encourages the use of sprinklers and other preparedness measures as a means of promoting fire-safe communities.” (Their words not mine)

Another fine example of the fire resistant technology built into 4S Ranch homes and how it gives added protection from fire compared to other homes and other communities in San Diego (even if you have a hair brained home owner throwing burning cigarrete butts onto flammable material in his garage). 4S homes are all separately plumbed with their own fire sprinkler system which is pressurized and distinct from the normal plumbing (I’m sure this cost me a small fortune). The water supply to the sprinkler systems is prioritized at the same level as the fire hydrants on the street. There are dozens of fire sprinklers on the cieling throughout my house including 4 sprinklers in the attic suspended just below the roof and a sprinkler outside of the front door (presumably to give a sprinkler protected escape route through the front door).

“The sprinkler definitely saved this home, and possibly the lives of those in the home,” said Captain Fred Cox, who responded to the call. “If there had not been a working sprinkler system in place, the fire would have spread very rapidly before anyone inside noticed. By that time, it would have been difficult to save the home and those inside could have been severely injured.”

. . .

“This is the fourth time in the last two years that sprinklers have extinguished a structure fire within the RSFFPD. In each scenario, the heat from the fire activated the nearest sprinkler head, immediately dousing the flames with water, minimizing property loss and injuries.”

Read . . . normal home burns to ground with potential loss of life. Same situation 4S Ranch home = $500 damage to the junk in your garage and a singed hand. Thats the difference between 4S Ranch and other homes not built with the same technology.

grateful owner . . . .

[4Sbuyer2002]

Aside from coastal areas of SD. 4S Ranch is probably one of the safest places in San Diego county when it comes to fire danger. Not a single home in 4S burned in the last fire. Moreover, every home has an extensive sprinkler system which has already successfully doused housefires started by dense homeowners. If you are worried about avoiding “fire danger” then 4S Ranch should be at the top of your list.

See this extensive thread on the topic.

http://piggington.com/4_closure_ranch_errr_scratch_that_fire_proof_ranch_new_nickname_

_____________________________

Great PDF Brochure by Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dept. on “Shelter in Place” concept of fire resistant construction found in newer communities within the Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dist. which include

The Bridges
4S Ranch
Cielo
The Crosby Estates
Santa Fe Valley

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/education/preparedness/SIP_for_web.pdf
_______________

New York Times message to world . . . if your going to move to San Diego . . . 4S Ranch is one of 5 communities with “safe homes” from fire which did not burn. Good press for 4S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/weekinreview/28odonnell.html

________________________________

Exclusive homes emerge unscathed as fire-protection concept is tested

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1n25stay.html#

_________________________________

Sprinkler System in 4S Ranch “saves dumb homeowners from themselves.:

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/news/news_releases/2005/100605%20Cayenne%20Creek%20Fire.pdf

“The Fire District encourages the use of sprinklers and other preparedness measures as a means of promoting fire-safe communities.” (Their words not mine)

Another fine example of the fire resistant technology built into 4S Ranch homes and how it gives added protection from fire compared to other homes and other communities in San Diego (even if you have a hair brained home owner throwing burning cigarrete butts onto flammable material in his garage). 4S homes are all separately plumbed with their own fire sprinkler system which is pressurized and distinct from the normal plumbing (I’m sure this cost me a small fortune). The water supply to the sprinkler systems is prioritized at the same level as the fire hydrants on the street. There are dozens of fire sprinklers on the cieling throughout my house including 4 sprinklers in the attic suspended just below the roof and a sprinkler outside of the front door (presumably to give a sprinkler protected escape route through the front door).

“The sprinkler definitely saved this home, and possibly the lives of those in the home,” said Captain Fred Cox, who responded to the call. “If there had not been a working sprinkler system in place, the fire would have spread very rapidly before anyone inside noticed. By that time, it would have been difficult to save the home and those inside could have been severely injured.”

. . .

“This is the fourth time in the last two years that sprinklers have extinguished a structure fire within the RSFFPD. In each scenario, the heat from the fire activated the nearest sprinkler head, immediately dousing the flames with water, minimizing property loss and injuries.”

Read . . . normal home burns to ground with potential loss of life. Same situation 4S Ranch home = $500 damage to the junk in your garage and a singed hand. Thats the difference between 4S Ranch and other homes not built with the same technology.

grateful owner . . . .

[4Sbuyer2002]

Aside from coastal areas of SD. 4S Ranch is probably one of the safest places in San Diego county when it comes to fire danger. Not a single home in 4S burned in the last fire. Moreover, every home has an extensive sprinkler system which has already successfully doused housefires started by dense homeowners. If you are worried about avoiding “fire danger” then 4S Ranch should be at the top of your list.

See this extensive thread on the topic.

http://piggington.com/4_closure_ranch_errr_scratch_that_fire_proof_ranch_new_nickname_

_____________________________

Great PDF Brochure by Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dept. on “Shelter in Place” concept of fire resistant construction found in newer communities within the Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dist. which include

The Bridges
4S Ranch
Cielo
The Crosby Estates
Santa Fe Valley

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/education/preparedness/SIP_for_web.pdf
_______________

New York Times message to world . . . if your going to move to San Diego . . . 4S Ranch is one of 5 communities with “safe homes” from fire which did not burn. Good press for 4S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/weekinreview/28odonnell.html

________________________________

Exclusive homes emerge unscathed as fire-protection concept is tested

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1n25stay.html#

_________________________________

Sprinkler System in 4S Ranch “saves dumb homeowners from themselves.:

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/news/news_releases/2005/100605%20Cayenne%20Creek%20Fire.pdf

“The Fire District encourages the use of sprinklers and other preparedness measures as a means of promoting fire-safe communities.” (Their words not mine)

Another fine example of the fire resistant technology built into 4S Ranch homes and how it gives added protection from fire compared to other homes and other communities in San Diego (even if you have a hair brained home owner throwing burning cigarrete butts onto flammable material in his garage). 4S homes are all separately plumbed with their own fire sprinkler system which is pressurized and distinct from the normal plumbing (I’m sure this cost me a small fortune). The water supply to the sprinkler systems is prioritized at the same level as the fire hydrants on the street. There are dozens of fire sprinklers on the cieling throughout my house including 4 sprinklers in the attic suspended just below the roof and a sprinkler outside of the front door (presumably to give a sprinkler protected escape route through the front door).

“The sprinkler definitely saved this home, and possibly the lives of those in the home,” said Captain Fred Cox, who responded to the call. “If there had not been a working sprinkler system in place, the fire would have spread very rapidly before anyone inside noticed. By that time, it would have been difficult to save the home and those inside could have been severely injured.”

. . .

“This is the fourth time in the last two years that sprinklers have extinguished a structure fire within the RSFFPD. In each scenario, the heat from the fire activated the nearest sprinkler head, immediately dousing the flames with water, minimizing property loss and injuries.”

Read . . . normal home burns to ground with potential loss of life. Same situation 4S Ranch home = $500 damage to the junk in your garage and a singed hand. Thats the difference between 4S Ranch and other homes not built with the same technology.

grateful owner . . . .

[4Sbuyer2002]

Aside from coastal areas of SD. 4S Ranch is probably one of the safest places in San Diego county when it comes to fire danger. Not a single home in 4S burned in the last fire. Moreover, every home has an extensive sprinkler system which has already successfully doused housefires started by dense homeowners. If you are worried about avoiding “fire danger” then 4S Ranch should be at the top of your list.

See this extensive thread on the topic.

http://piggington.com/4_closure_ranch_errr_scratch_that_fire_proof_ranch_new_nickname_

_____________________________

Great PDF Brochure by Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dept. on “Shelter in Place” concept of fire resistant construction found in newer communities within the Rancho Santa Fe Fire Dist. which include

The Bridges
4S Ranch
Cielo
The Crosby Estates
Santa Fe Valley

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/education/preparedness/SIP_for_web.pdf
_______________

New York Times message to world . . . if your going to move to San Diego . . . 4S Ranch is one of 5 communities with “safe homes” from fire which did not burn. Good press for 4S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/weekinreview/28odonnell.html

________________________________

Exclusive homes emerge unscathed as fire-protection concept is tested

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1n25stay.html#

_________________________________

Sprinkler System in 4S Ranch “saves dumb homeowners from themselves.:

http://www.rsf-fire.org/assets/documents/news/news_releases/2005/100605%20Cayenne%20Creek%20Fire.pdf

“The Fire District encourages the use of sprinklers and other preparedness measures as a means of promoting fire-safe communities.” (Their words not mine)

Another fine example of the fire resistant technology built into 4S Ranch homes and how it gives added protection from fire compared to other homes and other communities in San Diego (even if you have a hair brained home owner throwing burning cigarrete butts onto flammable material in his garage). 4S homes are all separately plumbed with their own fire sprinkler system which is pressurized and distinct from the normal plumbing (I’m sure this cost me a small fortune). The water supply to the sprinkler systems is prioritized at the same level as the fire hydrants on the street. There are dozens of fire sprinklers on the cieling throughout my house including 4 sprinklers in the attic suspended just below the roof and a sprinkler outside of the front door (presumably to give a sprinkler protected escape route through the front door).

“The sprinkler definitely saved this home, and possibly the lives of those in the home,” said Captain Fred Cox, who responded to the call. “If there had not been a working sprinkler system in place, the fire would have spread very rapidly before anyone inside noticed. By that time, it would have been difficult to save the home and those inside could have been severely injured.”

. . .

“This is the fourth time in the last two years that sprinklers have extinguished a structure fire within the RSFFPD. In each scenario, the heat from the fire activated the nearest sprinkler head, immediately dousing the flames with water, minimizing property loss and injuries.”

Read . . . normal home burns to ground with potential loss of life. Same situation 4S Ranch home = $500 damage to the junk in your garage and a singed hand. Thats the difference between 4S Ranch and other homes not built with the same technology.

grateful owner . . . .

[NewtoSanDiego]

4spotentialbuyer,
You sound pretty desperate to buy a house in 4S. Perhaps the salesperson senses that, in that case they hold all the cards. I recently toured 4s, I was not impressed. Plus you are in high wildfire risk area., there were vast burn areas in surrounding areas. Why on earth anyone in their right mind choose to live near there? I personally have redlined areas of San Diego county due to wildfire risk.

[NewtoSanDiego]

4spotentialbuyer,
You sound pretty desperate to buy a house in 4S. Perhaps the salesperson senses that, in that case they hold all the cards. I recently toured 4s, I was not impressed. Plus you are in high wildfire risk area., there were vast burn areas in surrounding areas. Why on earth anyone in their right mind choose to live near there? I personally have redlined areas of San Diego county due to wildfire risk.

[NewtoSanDiego]

4spotentialbuyer,
You sound pretty desperate to buy a house in 4S. Perhaps the salesperson senses that, in that case they hold all the cards. I recently toured 4s, I was not impressed. Plus you are in high wildfire risk area., there were vast burn areas in surrounding areas. Why on earth anyone in their right mind choose to live near there? I personally have redlined areas of San Diego county due to wildfire risk.

[NewtoSanDiego]

4spotentialbuyer,
You sound pretty desperate to buy a house in 4S. Perhaps the salesperson senses that, in that case they hold all the cards. I recently toured 4s, I was not impressed. Plus you are in high wildfire risk area., there were vast burn areas in surrounding areas. Why on earth anyone in their right mind choose to live near there? I personally have redlined areas of San Diego county due to wildfire risk.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

My wife sells a product to homebuilders so she frequently visits all builders to promote her product and keep her relationships strong through this terrible market. She visited Maybeck the other day and found that they are releasing lower pricing in the next week or two. So I went with her to walk the models yesterday since we live around the corner (in a rental home 🙂 and the agent confirmed that prices were to be released, she guessed starting at 610-620. There are also incentives in addition to the pricing for using the financing unit of the builder (not always the best rates though).

This isnt breakthrough pricing but a step in the right direction and leads me to think that a Pricing War could happen in 4s between Pienza, Chantaclair (might have jacked the name up) and Maybeck, not to mention resale. The latter two are selling lots and new builds, while Pienza is selling existing inventory and has i think 2 or three vacant lots across from the models. All three are in the 3000 sq ft range so if one drops their entry price point to low 600s, i would think the other two would have to follow suit to stay competitive. Then the extra amenities start to get tacked on.

If the builders start competing on price and we get 3000 sq ft on a new build down to low 6’s, i would think that both resale and reo units will have to drop the price to compete.

Hope Im right…

[jpinpb]

OMG – That would be major. I think there are a lot smaller homes on the market in the 600k range. If they sell 3k sf houses for 600k, then all those smaller homes will have to reduce significally accordingly.

[jpinpb]

OMG – That would be major. I think there are a lot smaller homes on the market in the 600k range. If they sell 3k sf houses for 600k, then all those smaller homes will have to reduce significally accordingly.

[jpinpb]

OMG – That would be major. I think there are a lot smaller homes on the market in the 600k range. If they sell 3k sf houses for 600k, then all those smaller homes will have to reduce significally accordingly.

[jpinpb]

OMG – That would be major. I think there are a lot smaller homes on the market in the 600k range. If they sell 3k sf houses for 600k, then all those smaller homes will have to reduce significally accordingly.

[jpinpb]

OMG – That would be major. I think there are a lot smaller homes on the market in the 600k range. If they sell 3k sf houses for 600k, then all those smaller homes will have to reduce significally accordingly.

[5yearwaiter]

Folks if you see all the messages from experts in this site about the SD prices falling and estimates etc – all are happening or many happened as exactly. People expected Coutrywide BR almost 8 months ahead. Someone suggested to keep the money under bedsheets(instead of in Banks to keep)- this is kind of current situation about current interest rates and uncertainity of banking sector like which bank goes to BR when no clue.

So, the botom line is 4Closure Ranch is soon to hit that 38% slide compare to 2003 prices. As it hints sure the 3000 SFT house must sell around 515K to 550K at the most maximum
Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times

5yearswaiter

[Bugs]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

When considered in context, 4S is doing just about exactly what you would expect. They haven’t gotten to Temecula-style pricing drops yet because they’re extremely close (relatively speaking) to meaningful employment.

By the time this is all over, I think 4S will end up looking more like Poway and Scripps than San Marcos and Escondido. People will consider it closer to being a destination as opposed to just another rung on the property ladder.

[Eugene]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

Some smaller homes in 4S may fall into the middle tier, but most of 4S is obviously high tier. Case-Shiller defines high tier as houses worth over $629470. Right now I see 7 listings below 600k, 43 listings in 600k-800k range, and 23 listings above 800k.

Being high tier, 4S is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. Subprime was not a factor, neg-am time hasn’t come yet, and 100% financing was not widespread, therefore there aren’t that many foreclosures and distressed sales. Apparent stability of the market creates a (wrong) impression that there was no bubble in 4S and keeps the idea of homeownership in 4S attractive.

Mid-’07 jump in jumbo rates is the main reason why we’re seeing any high-tier depreciation. On top of that, collapsing prices of lower tiers reduce the pool of potential buyers and lead to slower sales. That is a slow mechanism. It may strengthen as the gap increases. By my calculations, we’ve crossed long-term equilibrium price ratios in late ’07. Further declines in lower tiers should create increasing drag on 4S.

We may see some interesting changes in buyer attitudes (and thus prices) if Mira Mesa sinks another 10% by the end of this spring buying season. Real fun will start by the end of ’09 as bubble neg-ams start to reset.

Feel free to substitute “Carmel Valley” and “Carlsbad” for “4S”.

[Eugene]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

Some smaller homes in 4S may fall into the middle tier, but most of 4S is obviously high tier. Case-Shiller defines high tier as houses worth over $629470. Right now I see 7 listings below 600k, 43 listings in 600k-800k range, and 23 listings above 800k.

Being high tier, 4S is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. Subprime was not a factor, neg-am time hasn’t come yet, and 100% financing was not widespread, therefore there aren’t that many foreclosures and distressed sales. Apparent stability of the market creates a (wrong) impression that there was no bubble in 4S and keeps the idea of homeownership in 4S attractive.

Mid-’07 jump in jumbo rates is the main reason why we’re seeing any high-tier depreciation. On top of that, collapsing prices of lower tiers reduce the pool of potential buyers and lead to slower sales. That is a slow mechanism. It may strengthen as the gap increases. By my calculations, we’ve crossed long-term equilibrium price ratios in late ’07. Further declines in lower tiers should create increasing drag on 4S.

We may see some interesting changes in buyer attitudes (and thus prices) if Mira Mesa sinks another 10% by the end of this spring buying season. Real fun will start by the end of ’09 as bubble neg-ams start to reset.

Feel free to substitute “Carmel Valley” and “Carlsbad” for “4S”.

[Eugene]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

Some smaller homes in 4S may fall into the middle tier, but most of 4S is obviously high tier. Case-Shiller defines high tier as houses worth over $629470. Right now I see 7 listings below 600k, 43 listings in 600k-800k range, and 23 listings above 800k.

Being high tier, 4S is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. Subprime was not a factor, neg-am time hasn’t come yet, and 100% financing was not widespread, therefore there aren’t that many foreclosures and distressed sales. Apparent stability of the market creates a (wrong) impression that there was no bubble in 4S and keeps the idea of homeownership in 4S attractive.

Mid-’07 jump in jumbo rates is the main reason why we’re seeing any high-tier depreciation. On top of that, collapsing prices of lower tiers reduce the pool of potential buyers and lead to slower sales. That is a slow mechanism. It may strengthen as the gap increases. By my calculations, we’ve crossed long-term equilibrium price ratios in late ’07. Further declines in lower tiers should create increasing drag on 4S.

We may see some interesting changes in buyer attitudes (and thus prices) if Mira Mesa sinks another 10% by the end of this spring buying season. Real fun will start by the end of ’09 as bubble neg-ams start to reset.

Feel free to substitute “Carmel Valley” and “Carlsbad” for “4S”.

[Eugene]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

Some smaller homes in 4S may fall into the middle tier, but most of 4S is obviously high tier. Case-Shiller defines high tier as houses worth over $629470. Right now I see 7 listings below 600k, 43 listings in 600k-800k range, and 23 listings above 800k.

Being high tier, 4S is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. Subprime was not a factor, neg-am time hasn’t come yet, and 100% financing was not widespread, therefore there aren’t that many foreclosures and distressed sales. Apparent stability of the market creates a (wrong) impression that there was no bubble in 4S and keeps the idea of homeownership in 4S attractive.

Mid-’07 jump in jumbo rates is the main reason why we’re seeing any high-tier depreciation. On top of that, collapsing prices of lower tiers reduce the pool of potential buyers and lead to slower sales. That is a slow mechanism. It may strengthen as the gap increases. By my calculations, we’ve crossed long-term equilibrium price ratios in late ’07. Further declines in lower tiers should create increasing drag on 4S.

We may see some interesting changes in buyer attitudes (and thus prices) if Mira Mesa sinks another 10% by the end of this spring buying season. Real fun will start by the end of ’09 as bubble neg-ams start to reset.

Feel free to substitute “Carmel Valley” and “Carlsbad” for “4S”.

[Eugene]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

Some smaller homes in 4S may fall into the middle tier, but most of 4S is obviously high tier. Case-Shiller defines high tier as houses worth over $629470. Right now I see 7 listings below 600k, 43 listings in 600k-800k range, and 23 listings above 800k.

Being high tier, 4S is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. Subprime was not a factor, neg-am time hasn’t come yet, and 100% financing was not widespread, therefore there aren’t that many foreclosures and distressed sales. Apparent stability of the market creates a (wrong) impression that there was no bubble in 4S and keeps the idea of homeownership in 4S attractive.

Mid-’07 jump in jumbo rates is the main reason why we’re seeing any high-tier depreciation. On top of that, collapsing prices of lower tiers reduce the pool of potential buyers and lead to slower sales. That is a slow mechanism. It may strengthen as the gap increases. By my calculations, we’ve crossed long-term equilibrium price ratios in late ’07. Further declines in lower tiers should create increasing drag on 4S.

We may see some interesting changes in buyer attitudes (and thus prices) if Mira Mesa sinks another 10% by the end of this spring buying season. Real fun will start by the end of ’09 as bubble neg-ams start to reset.

Feel free to substitute “Carmel Valley” and “Carlsbad” for “4S”.

[Bugs]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

When considered in context, 4S is doing just about exactly what you would expect. They haven’t gotten to Temecula-style pricing drops yet because they’re extremely close (relatively speaking) to meaningful employment.

By the time this is all over, I think 4S will end up looking more like Poway and Scripps than San Marcos and Escondido. People will consider it closer to being a destination as opposed to just another rung on the property ladder.

[Bugs]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

When considered in context, 4S is doing just about exactly what you would expect. They haven’t gotten to Temecula-style pricing drops yet because they’re extremely close (relatively speaking) to meaningful employment.

By the time this is all over, I think 4S will end up looking more like Poway and Scripps than San Marcos and Escondido. People will consider it closer to being a destination as opposed to just another rung on the property ladder.

[Bugs]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

When considered in context, 4S is doing just about exactly what you would expect. They haven’t gotten to Temecula-style pricing drops yet because they’re extremely close (relatively speaking) to meaningful employment.

By the time this is all over, I think 4S will end up looking more like Poway and Scripps than San Marcos and Escondido. People will consider it closer to being a destination as opposed to just another rung on the property ladder.

[Bugs]

The homes in 4S are in the middle pricing tier of the Case-Schiller index. The median pricing for that index is comprised of high and lows throughout the region. The homes in 4S and other nearby communities obviously represent the most desirable end of that pricing tier.

When considered in context, 4S is doing just about exactly what you would expect. They haven’t gotten to Temecula-style pricing drops yet because they’re extremely close (relatively speaking) to meaningful employment.

By the time this is all over, I think 4S will end up looking more like Poway and Scripps than San Marcos and Escondido. People will consider it closer to being a destination as opposed to just another rung on the property ladder.

[Anonymous]

“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

“Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times”

Who are you kidding?

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

Hey one liner skywalker – how about you explain your knowledgeable comment:

Submitted by skywalker on April 7, 2008 – 7:06am.
“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

[EconProf]

BobS
5YearWaiter: Sorry, but I just can’t understand your posts. Please proofread before hitting send. We really do want to know your thoughts but can’t figure them out.

[EconProf]

BobS
5YearWaiter: Sorry, but I just can’t understand your posts. Please proofread before hitting send. We really do want to know your thoughts but can’t figure them out.

[EconProf]

BobS
5YearWaiter: Sorry, but I just can’t understand your posts. Please proofread before hitting send. We really do want to know your thoughts but can’t figure them out.

[EconProf]

BobS
5YearWaiter: Sorry, but I just can’t understand your posts. Please proofread before hitting send. We really do want to know your thoughts but can’t figure them out.

[EconProf]

BobS
5YearWaiter: Sorry, but I just can’t understand your posts. Please proofread before hitting send. We really do want to know your thoughts but can’t figure them out.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

Hey one liner skywalker – how about you explain your knowledgeable comment:

Submitted by skywalker on April 7, 2008 – 7:06am.
“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

Hey one liner skywalker – how about you explain your knowledgeable comment:

Submitted by skywalker on April 7, 2008 – 7:06am.
“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

Hey one liner skywalker – how about you explain your knowledgeable comment:

Submitted by skywalker on April 7, 2008 – 7:06am.
“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

Hey one liner skywalker – how about you explain your knowledgeable comment:

Submitted by skywalker on April 7, 2008 – 7:06am.
“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

[Anonymous]

“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

“Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times”

Who are you kidding?

[Anonymous]

“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

“Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times”

Who are you kidding?

[Anonymous]

“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

“Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times”

Who are you kidding?

[Anonymous]

“Hope Im right…”

Sorry. Not True.

“Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times”

Who are you kidding?

[5yearwaiter]

Folks if you see all the messages from experts in this site about the SD prices falling and estimates etc – all are happening or many happened as exactly. People expected Coutrywide BR almost 8 months ahead. Someone suggested to keep the money under bedsheets(instead of in Banks to keep)- this is kind of current situation about current interest rates and uncertainity of banking sector like which bank goes to BR when no clue.

So, the botom line is 4Closure Ranch is soon to hit that 38% slide compare to 2003 prices. As it hints sure the 3000 SFT house must sell around 515K to 550K at the most maximum
Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times

5yearswaiter

[5yearwaiter]

Folks if you see all the messages from experts in this site about the SD prices falling and estimates etc – all are happening or many happened as exactly. People expected Coutrywide BR almost 8 months ahead. Someone suggested to keep the money under bedsheets(instead of in Banks to keep)- this is kind of current situation about current interest rates and uncertainity of banking sector like which bank goes to BR when no clue.

So, the botom line is 4Closure Ranch is soon to hit that 38% slide compare to 2003 prices. As it hints sure the 3000 SFT house must sell around 515K to 550K at the most maximum
Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times

5yearswaiter

[5yearwaiter]

Folks if you see all the messages from experts in this site about the SD prices falling and estimates etc – all are happening or many happened as exactly. People expected Coutrywide BR almost 8 months ahead. Someone suggested to keep the money under bedsheets(instead of in Banks to keep)- this is kind of current situation about current interest rates and uncertainity of banking sector like which bank goes to BR when no clue.

So, the botom line is 4Closure Ranch is soon to hit that 38% slide compare to 2003 prices. As it hints sure the 3000 SFT house must sell around 515K to 550K at the most maximum
Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times

5yearswaiter

[5yearwaiter]

Folks if you see all the messages from experts in this site about the SD prices falling and estimates etc – all are happening or many happened as exactly. People expected Coutrywide BR almost 8 months ahead. Someone suggested to keep the money under bedsheets(instead of in Banks to keep)- this is kind of current situation about current interest rates and uncertainity of banking sector like which bank goes to BR when no clue.

So, the botom line is 4Closure Ranch is soon to hit that 38% slide compare to 2003 prices. As it hints sure the 3000 SFT house must sell around 515K to 550K at the most maximum
Don’t believe me – just surf the old posts how this site forecast all such with multiple times

5yearswaiter

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

My wife sells a product to homebuilders so she frequently visits all builders to promote her product and keep her relationships strong through this terrible market. She visited Maybeck the other day and found that they are releasing lower pricing in the next week or two. So I went with her to walk the models yesterday since we live around the corner (in a rental home 🙂 and the agent confirmed that prices were to be released, she guessed starting at 610-620. There are also incentives in addition to the pricing for using the financing unit of the builder (not always the best rates though).

This isnt breakthrough pricing but a step in the right direction and leads me to think that a Pricing War could happen in 4s between Pienza, Chantaclair (might have jacked the name up) and Maybeck, not to mention resale. The latter two are selling lots and new builds, while Pienza is selling existing inventory and has i think 2 or three vacant lots across from the models. All three are in the 3000 sq ft range so if one drops their entry price point to low 600s, i would think the other two would have to follow suit to stay competitive. Then the extra amenities start to get tacked on.

If the builders start competing on price and we get 3000 sq ft on a new build down to low 6’s, i would think that both resale and reo units will have to drop the price to compete.

Hope Im right…

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

My wife sells a product to homebuilders so she frequently visits all builders to promote her product and keep her relationships strong through this terrible market. She visited Maybeck the other day and found that they are releasing lower pricing in the next week or two. So I went with her to walk the models yesterday since we live around the corner (in a rental home 🙂 and the agent confirmed that prices were to be released, she guessed starting at 610-620. There are also incentives in addition to the pricing for using the financing unit of the builder (not always the best rates though).

This isnt breakthrough pricing but a step in the right direction and leads me to think that a Pricing War could happen in 4s between Pienza, Chantaclair (might have jacked the name up) and Maybeck, not to mention resale. The latter two are selling lots and new builds, while Pienza is selling existing inventory and has i think 2 or three vacant lots across from the models. All three are in the 3000 sq ft range so if one drops their entry price point to low 600s, i would think the other two would have to follow suit to stay competitive. Then the extra amenities start to get tacked on.

If the builders start competing on price and we get 3000 sq ft on a new build down to low 6’s, i would think that both resale and reo units will have to drop the price to compete.

Hope Im right…

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

My wife sells a product to homebuilders so she frequently visits all builders to promote her product and keep her relationships strong through this terrible market. She visited Maybeck the other day and found that they are releasing lower pricing in the next week or two. So I went with her to walk the models yesterday since we live around the corner (in a rental home 🙂 and the agent confirmed that prices were to be released, she guessed starting at 610-620. There are also incentives in addition to the pricing for using the financing unit of the builder (not always the best rates though).

This isnt breakthrough pricing but a step in the right direction and leads me to think that a Pricing War could happen in 4s between Pienza, Chantaclair (might have jacked the name up) and Maybeck, not to mention resale. The latter two are selling lots and new builds, while Pienza is selling existing inventory and has i think 2 or three vacant lots across from the models. All three are in the 3000 sq ft range so if one drops their entry price point to low 600s, i would think the other two would have to follow suit to stay competitive. Then the extra amenities start to get tacked on.

If the builders start competing on price and we get 3000 sq ft on a new build down to low 6’s, i would think that both resale and reo units will have to drop the price to compete.

Hope Im right…

[LAAFTERHOURS]

4s Renter

My wife sells a product to homebuilders so she frequently visits all builders to promote her product and keep her relationships strong through this terrible market. She visited Maybeck the other day and found that they are releasing lower pricing in the next week or two. So I went with her to walk the models yesterday since we live around the corner (in a rental home 🙂 and the agent confirmed that prices were to be released, she guessed starting at 610-620. There are also incentives in addition to the pricing for using the financing unit of the builder (not always the best rates though).

This isnt breakthrough pricing but a step in the right direction and leads me to think that a Pricing War could happen in 4s between Pienza, Chantaclair (might have jacked the name up) and Maybeck, not to mention resale. The latter two are selling lots and new builds, while Pienza is selling existing inventory and has i think 2 or three vacant lots across from the models. All three are in the 3000 sq ft range so if one drops their entry price point to low 600s, i would think the other two would have to follow suit to stay competitive. Then the extra amenities start to get tacked on.

If the builders start competing on price and we get 3000 sq ft on a new build down to low 6’s, i would think that both resale and reo units will have to drop the price to compete.

Hope Im right…

[Anonymous]

“Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.” — the original poster is not talking about Temecula, Murrieta, Chula Vista …i m sure you get it

[Anonymous]

“Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.” — the original poster is not talking about Temecula, Murrieta, Chula Vista …i m sure you get it

[Anonymous]

“Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.” — the original poster is not talking about Temecula, Murrieta, Chula Vista …i m sure you get it

[Anonymous]

“Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.” — the original poster is not talking about Temecula, Murrieta, Chula Vista …i m sure you get it

[Anonymous]

It’s both amusing and frustrating for me when I see salespeople at new developments behave like this. I don’t know if they are instructed to do so, or they just do it out of their own resentment of the party being over. But the few sales people I have interacted with recently have this defensive attitude and big goofy grin on their face, and try their best to ignore the elephant in the room…that the bubble is over and a buyer with good credit and a large down $ holds all the cards now. Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.

[Anonymous]

It’s both amusing and frustrating for me when I see salespeople at new developments behave like this. I don’t know if they are instructed to do so, or they just do it out of their own resentment of the party being over. But the few sales people I have interacted with recently have this defensive attitude and big goofy grin on their face, and try their best to ignore the elephant in the room…that the bubble is over and a buyer with good credit and a large down $ holds all the cards now. Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.

[Anonymous]

It’s both amusing and frustrating for me when I see salespeople at new developments behave like this. I don’t know if they are instructed to do so, or they just do it out of their own resentment of the party being over. But the few sales people I have interacted with recently have this defensive attitude and big goofy grin on their face, and try their best to ignore the elephant in the room…that the bubble is over and a buyer with good credit and a large down $ holds all the cards now. Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.

[Anonymous]

It’s both amusing and frustrating for me when I see salespeople at new developments behave like this. I don’t know if they are instructed to do so, or they just do it out of their own resentment of the party being over. But the few sales people I have interacted with recently have this defensive attitude and big goofy grin on their face, and try their best to ignore the elephant in the room…that the bubble is over and a buyer with good credit and a large down $ holds all the cards now. Throw them an offer 20+% below the sheet price and see what happens.

[jpinpb]

IMO – If builders don’t want to deal, check SDLookup.com

There are many defaults and hurting people in 4Closure Ranch. Shop around. All these places are fairly new. Does it need to be brand-spanking new from the builder? There are a lot of foreclosures and desperate people out there in 4$. You can pick up something less. I just posted a place for $499k. You can low-ball some flippers who flopped. Make it a fun thing. If the builders don’t want to play, their loss. Move on. Lots of other fish in the sea of houses out there.

I swear, sometimes I consider getting a place there, and then I do the math and I just can’t swallow a minimum of $800 a month in taxes and Mello Roos and HOAs. That is a sh*t load of money every month to live there. I can’t bring myself to do it. You’re not even near the beach. You’re not near downtown. I just can’t do it.

But I guess if you have kids, the schools are supposed to be the best. Sacrifices.

[jpinpb]

IMO – If builders don’t want to deal, check SDLookup.com

There are many defaults and hurting people in 4Closure Ranch. Shop around. All these places are fairly new. Does it need to be brand-spanking new from the builder? There are a lot of foreclosures and desperate people out there in 4$. You can pick up something less. I just posted a place for $499k. You can low-ball some flippers who flopped. Make it a fun thing. If the builders don’t want to play, their loss. Move on. Lots of other fish in the sea of houses out there.

I swear, sometimes I consider getting a place there, and then I do the math and I just can’t swallow a minimum of $800 a month in taxes and Mello Roos and HOAs. That is a sh*t load of money every month to live there. I can’t bring myself to do it. You’re not even near the beach. You’re not near downtown. I just can’t do it.

But I guess if you have kids, the schools are supposed to be the best. Sacrifices.

[jpinpb]

IMO – If builders don’t want to deal, check SDLookup.com

There are many defaults and hurting people in 4Closure Ranch. Shop around. All these places are fairly new. Does it need to be brand-spanking new from the builder? There are a lot of foreclosures and desperate people out there in 4$. You can pick up something less. I just posted a place for $499k. You can low-ball some flippers who flopped. Make it a fun thing. If the builders don’t want to play, their loss. Move on. Lots of other fish in the sea of houses out there.

I swear, sometimes I consider getting a place there, and then I do the math and I just can’t swallow a minimum of $800 a month in taxes and Mello Roos and HOAs. That is a sh*t load of money every month to live there. I can’t bring myself to do it. You’re not even near the beach. You’re not near downtown. I just can’t do it.

But I guess if you have kids, the schools are supposed to be the best. Sacrifices.

[jpinpb]

IMO – If builders don’t want to deal, check SDLookup.com

There are many defaults and hurting people in 4Closure Ranch. Shop around. All these places are fairly new. Does it need to be brand-spanking new from the builder? There are a lot of foreclosures and desperate people out there in 4$. You can pick up something less. I just posted a place for $499k. You can low-ball some flippers who flopped. Make it a fun thing. If the builders don’t want to play, their loss. Move on. Lots of other fish in the sea of houses out there.

I swear, sometimes I consider getting a place there, and then I do the math and I just can’t swallow a minimum of $800 a month in taxes and Mello Roos and HOAs. That is a sh*t load of money every month to live there. I can’t bring myself to do it. You’re not even near the beach. You’re not near downtown. I just can’t do it.

But I guess if you have kids, the schools are supposed to be the best. Sacrifices.

[jpinpb]

IMO – If builders don’t want to deal, check SDLookup.com

There are many defaults and hurting people in 4Closure Ranch. Shop around. All these places are fairly new. Does it need to be brand-spanking new from the builder? There are a lot of foreclosures and desperate people out there in 4$. You can pick up something less. I just posted a place for $499k. You can low-ball some flippers who flopped. Make it a fun thing. If the builders don’t want to play, their loss. Move on. Lots of other fish in the sea of houses out there.

I swear, sometimes I consider getting a place there, and then I do the math and I just can’t swallow a minimum of $800 a month in taxes and Mello Roos and HOAs. That is a sh*t load of money every month to live there. I can’t bring myself to do it. You’re not even near the beach. You’re not near downtown. I just can’t do it.

But I guess if you have kids, the schools are supposed to be the best. Sacrifices.

[dejams]

4spotentialbuyer, I went to 4S several weeks back and find these two builders John Laing and Buie Communities very helpful and willing to listen to potential offers. The sales lady from Buie willing to deal if you purchase one of their existing specs. I didn’t bother to “ink” the contract once I find out the Mello Roos and HOA fee. Too much for cookie cutter homes. If you have chance, go to Buie on top of the hill and look down to a valley, you will see all the homes are bunched up very close. Also pay attention on mid way to the top of the hill and you will see a burn line where the wildfire ends.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Thanks for the feedback…we looked at John Laing and Buie awhile ago, and had some reservations about how tight the homes were next to each other….however if the price is right, it would be worth a second look.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Thanks for the feedback…we looked at John Laing and Buie awhile ago, and had some reservations about how tight the homes were next to each other….however if the price is right, it would be worth a second look.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Thanks for the feedback…we looked at John Laing and Buie awhile ago, and had some reservations about how tight the homes were next to each other….however if the price is right, it would be worth a second look.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Thanks for the feedback…we looked at John Laing and Buie awhile ago, and had some reservations about how tight the homes were next to each other….however if the price is right, it would be worth a second look.

[4spotentialbuyer]

Thanks for the feedback…we looked at John Laing and Buie awhile ago, and had some reservations about how tight the homes were next to each other….however if the price is right, it would be worth a second look.

[dejams]

4spotentialbuyer, I went to 4S several weeks back and find these two builders John Laing and Buie Communities very helpful and willing to listen to potential offers. The sales lady from Buie willing to deal if you purchase one of their existing specs. I didn’t bother to “ink” the contract once I find out the Mello Roos and HOA fee. Too much for cookie cutter homes. If you have chance, go to Buie on top of the hill and look down to a valley, you will see all the homes are bunched up very close. Also pay attention on mid way to the top of the hill and you will see a burn line where the wildfire ends.

[dejams]

4spotentialbuyer, I went to 4S several weeks back and find these two builders John Laing and Buie Communities very helpful and willing to listen to potential offers. The sales lady from Buie willing to deal if you purchase one of their existing specs. I didn’t bother to “ink” the contract once I find out the Mello Roos and HOA fee. Too much for cookie cutter homes. If you have chance, go to Buie on top of the hill and look down to a valley, you will see all the homes are bunched up very close. Also pay attention on mid way to the top of the hill and you will see a burn line where the wildfire ends.

[dejams]

4spotentialbuyer, I went to 4S several weeks back and find these two builders John Laing and Buie Communities very helpful and willing to listen to potential offers. The sales lady from Buie willing to deal if you purchase one of their existing specs. I didn’t bother to “ink” the contract once I find out the Mello Roos and HOA fee. Too much for cookie cutter homes. If you have chance, go to Buie on top of the hill and look down to a valley, you will see all the homes are bunched up very close. Also pay attention on mid way to the top of the hill and you will see a burn line where the wildfire ends.

[dejams]

4spotentialbuyer, I went to 4S several weeks back and find these two builders John Laing and Buie Communities very helpful and willing to listen to potential offers. The sales lady from Buie willing to deal if you purchase one of their existing specs. I didn’t bother to “ink” the contract once I find out the Mello Roos and HOA fee. Too much for cookie cutter homes. If you have chance, go to Buie on top of the hill and look down to a valley, you will see all the homes are bunched up very close. Also pay attention on mid way to the top of the hill and you will see a burn line where the wildfire ends.

[arenter]

I would say this is true for other builders as well. We went to check out places in Oceanside (Montemar and Parkside), thinking they would have screaming deals considering they are in a bad-rep area with high mello-roos. We’re not buying anytime soon and by no means were we giving off any desparation waves, we were just in the neighborhood and like looking at model homes. The salespeople there were exactly how you described the 4S people – condascending, rude, with the “oh, we’ve sold most of this phase already” – attitude. I just didn’t get it. Though, we were looking like scrubs, touting our two kids and me being 8-mos pregnant – I guess they didn’t figure we were bringing in 6-figure salaries. And, homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside – even for a brand-new house??!!

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[jpinpb]

“homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside”

That is mind-blowing! Especially nowadays.

[Raybyrnes]

I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

As you state you are not buying at the moment therefore you are not a sales prospect. They should not waste too much time on you.

Secondly you said you went in thinking you were going to get a screaming deal. Maybe the builder has a different strategy to wait things out. May or may not prove to be more profitable then giving away home or taking a loss.

The bottom line is that regardless of how you look or are dressed if you want to see what a salesperson can do put down a pre approved letter form the bank and that will warrant their time.

Otherwise if you are a looky lou than just be content to look. Nothing wrong with that.

[arenter]

I was responding to this post by 4spotentialbuyer,

“I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” :-)”

We were not desparate buyers and while yes, we were just looking, we may have been a potential sale considering our lease is up in May and had they offered some incentives or at least not given the air of “we don’t need your business” we may have been interested. I would just think the sales office would try a little harder considering the housing situation. Could they afford to be so standoffish and not give a potential customer more attention? I don’t expect them to be kissing my ass, but come on, I’d expect a little more love 🙂

[arenter]

I was responding to this post by 4spotentialbuyer,

“I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” :-)”

We were not desparate buyers and while yes, we were just looking, we may have been a potential sale considering our lease is up in May and had they offered some incentives or at least not given the air of “we don’t need your business” we may have been interested. I would just think the sales office would try a little harder considering the housing situation. Could they afford to be so standoffish and not give a potential customer more attention? I don’t expect them to be kissing my ass, but come on, I’d expect a little more love 🙂

[arenter]

I was responding to this post by 4spotentialbuyer,

“I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” :-)”

We were not desparate buyers and while yes, we were just looking, we may have been a potential sale considering our lease is up in May and had they offered some incentives or at least not given the air of “we don’t need your business” we may have been interested. I would just think the sales office would try a little harder considering the housing situation. Could they afford to be so standoffish and not give a potential customer more attention? I don’t expect them to be kissing my ass, but come on, I’d expect a little more love 🙂

[arenter]

I was responding to this post by 4spotentialbuyer,

“I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” :-)”

We were not desparate buyers and while yes, we were just looking, we may have been a potential sale considering our lease is up in May and had they offered some incentives or at least not given the air of “we don’t need your business” we may have been interested. I would just think the sales office would try a little harder considering the housing situation. Could they afford to be so standoffish and not give a potential customer more attention? I don’t expect them to be kissing my ass, but come on, I’d expect a little more love 🙂

[arenter]

I was responding to this post by 4spotentialbuyer,

“I have to agree with NewtoSanDiego. The sales people in 4S can see how desperate you are (or at least it seemed that way to them). Next time, when you talk to them, put on your “poker face” :-)”

We were not desparate buyers and while yes, we were just looking, we may have been a potential sale considering our lease is up in May and had they offered some incentives or at least not given the air of “we don’t need your business” we may have been interested. I would just think the sales office would try a little harder considering the housing situation. Could they afford to be so standoffish and not give a potential customer more attention? I don’t expect them to be kissing my ass, but come on, I’d expect a little more love 🙂

[4spotentialbuyer]

In response to:

Submitted by Raybyrnes on February 19, 2008 – 10:28am.
I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

-We are prequalified and will down more than 20% plus have the income required to qualify for the homes in 4S Ranch at these outrageous prices. We just don’t feel that market justifies paying 750K plus for these homes. There are not many qualified noncontigent buyers left and the point is that the salespeople need to realize that this is not a seller’s market.

[milkspot]

I too find that salespeople are not interested in spending much time with you if you’re just looking around. I guess they’ve encountered too many of these folks. It does not matter that you are pre-qualified and have 20% plus down. They are not interested in qualified buyers. They are interested in serious, qualified buyers. By serious, I mean you need to put the $10,000 deposit and make an offer. Then, they will talk numbers (price, incentives, …) and invite you to sit in their office and give you something to drink.

[4spotentialbuyer]

We have asked multiple builders and they have said they are not taking offers. Again, there are many serious buyers sitting on the sidelines waiting to buy however if the attitude from the builders is that they control the prices, then the buyers will remain on the sidelines until a sense of reality kicks in.

[4spotentialbuyer]

We have asked multiple builders and they have said they are not taking offers. Again, there are many serious buyers sitting on the sidelines waiting to buy however if the attitude from the builders is that they control the prices, then the buyers will remain on the sidelines until a sense of reality kicks in.

[4spotentialbuyer]

We have asked multiple builders and they have said they are not taking offers. Again, there are many serious buyers sitting on the sidelines waiting to buy however if the attitude from the builders is that they control the prices, then the buyers will remain on the sidelines until a sense of reality kicks in.

[4spotentialbuyer]

We have asked multiple builders and they have said they are not taking offers. Again, there are many serious buyers sitting on the sidelines waiting to buy however if the attitude from the builders is that they control the prices, then the buyers will remain on the sidelines until a sense of reality kicks in.

[4spotentialbuyer]

We have asked multiple builders and they have said they are not taking offers. Again, there are many serious buyers sitting on the sidelines waiting to buy however if the attitude from the builders is that they control the prices, then the buyers will remain on the sidelines until a sense of reality kicks in.

[milkspot]

I too find that salespeople are not interested in spending much time with you if you’re just looking around. I guess they’ve encountered too many of these folks. It does not matter that you are pre-qualified and have 20% plus down. They are not interested in qualified buyers. They are interested in serious, qualified buyers. By serious, I mean you need to put the $10,000 deposit and make an offer. Then, they will talk numbers (price, incentives, …) and invite you to sit in their office and give you something to drink.

[milkspot]

I too find that salespeople are not interested in spending much time with you if you’re just looking around. I guess they’ve encountered too many of these folks. It does not matter that you are pre-qualified and have 20% plus down. They are not interested in qualified buyers. They are interested in serious, qualified buyers. By serious, I mean you need to put the $10,000 deposit and make an offer. Then, they will talk numbers (price, incentives, …) and invite you to sit in their office and give you something to drink.

[milkspot]

I too find that salespeople are not interested in spending much time with you if you’re just looking around. I guess they’ve encountered too many of these folks. It does not matter that you are pre-qualified and have 20% plus down. They are not interested in qualified buyers. They are interested in serious, qualified buyers. By serious, I mean you need to put the $10,000 deposit and make an offer. Then, they will talk numbers (price, incentives, …) and invite you to sit in their office and give you something to drink.

[milkspot]

I too find that salespeople are not interested in spending much time with you if you’re just looking around. I guess they’ve encountered too many of these folks. It does not matter that you are pre-qualified and have 20% plus down. They are not interested in qualified buyers. They are interested in serious, qualified buyers. By serious, I mean you need to put the $10,000 deposit and make an offer. Then, they will talk numbers (price, incentives, …) and invite you to sit in their office and give you something to drink.

[sandiego]

If you are only putting down 20% you will need to get a loan. Therefore, your purchase is CONTINGENT on getting financing.

As Raybyrnes stated, come in with a pre-approved letter. Otherwise, you are a looky-lou.

The Public builders have already written down the value of the standing inventory. They don’t have the axe over their head as much as you think.

The smaller, private builders can’t drop prices willy-nilly. They have lenders and partners to answer to. I am not saying that they might not drop prices later in the year but they will need approval from their lenders and partners. At some point, the builder doesn’t have any skin in the game anymore and their equity is gone. They have no incentive to drop the price (unless they have personal guarantees to the lender).

San Diego doesn’t have the huge oversupply of new detached homes that they have in the Inland Empire. You can probably negotiate harder out there.

Downtown condos are obvioulsy overbuilt. I don’t know how they will unwind those.

[jpinpb]

I think it may have been somewhere on this board that I read people don’t HAVE to buy, but sometimes people HAVE to sell, something like that
If it’s becomes a stand off, who can last the longest?

[4spotentialbuyer]

I agree with jpinpb. At this point it is a stand off. As for all the other suggestions about how qualified we are, etc…we are already preapproved with their lender…have more than enough in cash, assets, income, etc to qualify for a loan, the point is that SELLERS, whether it is a builder or a resell, have not reached the same conclusion that may on this board have….that real estate in San Diego is only declining in value….We have already decided that we WILL not buy unless we see more price drops.

[Raybyrnes]

Not prodding you to buy but no reason for a builder to sell either. At leaset not to a retail person.

Who are public builders selling too. Smart ones are selling an interest to investment banks and carrying the loss back against their taxable gains over the last 5 years. They can structure the deals so that they still control the property and now have regained some margin in future sales.

If you ahve the cash and want a good price on a house start finding REO’s in the area, forget about the custom BS and make an offer at the price you think it is worth. Would be far more successful and productive wiht this approach as opposed to complaining about builders salespeople not kissing your ass when you clearly state that you are not going to buy their product at that price.

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

[an]

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

That Porsche analogy only apply if we want RSF homes for Mira Mesa price. We’re just trying to get an Accord for a Camry’s price and that’s pretty doable.

[arenter]

Exactly! And I would say the builders in Oceanside are trying to sell a Hyundai for a Honda price!

[arenter]

Exactly! And I would say the builders in Oceanside are trying to sell a Hyundai for a Honda price!

[arenter]

Exactly! And I would say the builders in Oceanside are trying to sell a Hyundai for a Honda price!

[arenter]

Exactly! And I would say the builders in Oceanside are trying to sell a Hyundai for a Honda price!

[arenter]

Exactly! And I would say the builders in Oceanside are trying to sell a Hyundai for a Honda price!

[Raybyrnes]

Seems that it’s not doable because you feel the builder is way off on his price. The builder does not see it as doable either becaeu his employees have made it know what price they are looking to sell at.

Maybe to better qualify the conversation, the pricing points for each party are not where they need to be today.

[Raybyrnes]

Seems that it’s not doable because you feel the builder is way off on his price. The builder does not see it as doable either becaeu his employees have made it know what price they are looking to sell at.

Maybe to better qualify the conversation, the pricing points for each party are not where they need to be today.

[Raybyrnes]

Seems that it’s not doable because you feel the builder is way off on his price. The builder does not see it as doable either becaeu his employees have made it know what price they are looking to sell at.

Maybe to better qualify the conversation, the pricing points for each party are not where they need to be today.

[Raybyrnes]

Seems that it’s not doable because you feel the builder is way off on his price. The builder does not see it as doable either becaeu his employees have made it know what price they are looking to sell at.

Maybe to better qualify the conversation, the pricing points for each party are not where they need to be today.

[Raybyrnes]

Seems that it’s not doable because you feel the builder is way off on his price. The builder does not see it as doable either becaeu his employees have made it know what price they are looking to sell at.

Maybe to better qualify the conversation, the pricing points for each party are not where they need to be today.

[Raybyrnes]

asianautica

What happened to all those low ball offers. I swear you were going to throw pie in my face about how effective they were for you.

[jpinpb]

This is JMHO – but influenced by what most economists are saying.

The smugness of the salespeople’s attitude will change by year’s end when instead of reducing it now slightly, they will reduce it a lot later on.

[jpinpb]

This is JMHO – but influenced by what most economists are saying.

The smugness of the salespeople’s attitude will change by year’s end when instead of reducing it now slightly, they will reduce it a lot later on.

[jpinpb]

This is JMHO – but influenced by what most economists are saying.

The smugness of the salespeople’s attitude will change by year’s end when instead of reducing it now slightly, they will reduce it a lot later on.

[jpinpb]

This is JMHO – but influenced by what most economists are saying.

The smugness of the salespeople’s attitude will change by year’s end when instead of reducing it now slightly, they will reduce it a lot later on.

[jpinpb]

This is JMHO – but influenced by what most economists are saying.

The smugness of the salespeople’s attitude will change by year’s end when instead of reducing it now slightly, they will reduce it a lot later on.

[jpinpb]

[jpinpb]

[jpinpb]

[jpinpb]

[jpinpb]

[an]

For one, low balling is not the same as the analogy you or I put up. Low balling is like negotiating with the dealer near you who’s selling at or above MSRP and getting near invoice instead. I think you’ve mistaken me with someone else too. Effective for me? I’m just being patient and waiting this thing out. But effective is all relative. I’m sure the person who bought this thinks it’s pretty effective. Builder was asking for around $830k and final sale price was around $750k. That’s 10% off asking price. Do you think this low ball offer was effective? I think it was pretty effective in term of getting the house for 10% below asking price. But that’s still over priced to me.

In regards to builder holding firm, a friend of mine just visited Pienza last weekend. They were asking $780k for the model he liked. But then immediately after saying the price, they told him the price is negotiable and he could get as much as $60k in incentives. So, Ray, do you really think the seller won’t budge? Obviously they won’t go as low as I want them to. I want invoice price but not all cars can be had at invoice price. Some can be had under invoice.

[jpinpb]

I admit my naievity. Aren’t there time during the year when new car dealers are more motivated to reduce price? In August they start getting next year’s new cars. By October they have to make room for the new cars and wheel and deal. If a car is not so popular, they will reduce it to clear out the inventory.

My friend tried to get a Jeep Rubicon last year. Impossible to get or find. Waiting list. He gave up and bought something else. Still hard to find, but he’s happy w/his new vehicle.

I guess two thing happen. Eventually price gets reduced or you find something else at a price you like.

[Raymond]

I have read somewhere that builders rather not negotiate the asking price and prefer to offer buyers upgrades and other freebies instead. A lower sales price for one buyer can affect the asking prices for the remaining inventory. And that would cost them more than giving you a one time upgrade. Do you think this is true?

[SD Realtor]

Raymond this is very true. Keeping the sales price is paramount for builders because of the pricing for subsequent phases. Not to mention the fact that previous phase buyers would not be to happy on immediate depreciation. Upgrades, freebies, and all other sorts of closing costs incentives are the most common lines of defense. Similarly this is the same reason why when you go to a developer without an agent, and ask the developer to reduce the price by what they would pay an agent, they will not do it.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Raymond this is very true. Keeping the sales price is paramount for builders because of the pricing for subsequent phases. Not to mention the fact that previous phase buyers would not be to happy on immediate depreciation. Upgrades, freebies, and all other sorts of closing costs incentives are the most common lines of defense. Similarly this is the same reason why when you go to a developer without an agent, and ask the developer to reduce the price by what they would pay an agent, they will not do it.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Raymond this is very true. Keeping the sales price is paramount for builders because of the pricing for subsequent phases. Not to mention the fact that previous phase buyers would not be to happy on immediate depreciation. Upgrades, freebies, and all other sorts of closing costs incentives are the most common lines of defense. Similarly this is the same reason why when you go to a developer without an agent, and ask the developer to reduce the price by what they would pay an agent, they will not do it.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Raymond this is very true. Keeping the sales price is paramount for builders because of the pricing for subsequent phases. Not to mention the fact that previous phase buyers would not be to happy on immediate depreciation. Upgrades, freebies, and all other sorts of closing costs incentives are the most common lines of defense. Similarly this is the same reason why when you go to a developer without an agent, and ask the developer to reduce the price by what they would pay an agent, they will not do it.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Raymond this is very true. Keeping the sales price is paramount for builders because of the pricing for subsequent phases. Not to mention the fact that previous phase buyers would not be to happy on immediate depreciation. Upgrades, freebies, and all other sorts of closing costs incentives are the most common lines of defense. Similarly this is the same reason why when you go to a developer without an agent, and ask the developer to reduce the price by what they would pay an agent, they will not do it.

SD Realtor

[Raymond]

I have read somewhere that builders rather not negotiate the asking price and prefer to offer buyers upgrades and other freebies instead. A lower sales price for one buyer can affect the asking prices for the remaining inventory. And that would cost them more than giving you a one time upgrade. Do you think this is true?

[Raymond]

I have read somewhere that builders rather not negotiate the asking price and prefer to offer buyers upgrades and other freebies instead. A lower sales price for one buyer can affect the asking prices for the remaining inventory. And that would cost them more than giving you a one time upgrade. Do you think this is true?

[Raymond]

I have read somewhere that builders rather not negotiate the asking price and prefer to offer buyers upgrades and other freebies instead. A lower sales price for one buyer can affect the asking prices for the remaining inventory. And that would cost them more than giving you a one time upgrade. Do you think this is true?

[Raymond]

I have read somewhere that builders rather not negotiate the asking price and prefer to offer buyers upgrades and other freebies instead. A lower sales price for one buyer can affect the asking prices for the remaining inventory. And that would cost them more than giving you a one time upgrade. Do you think this is true?

[jpinpb]

I admit my naievity. Aren’t there time during the year when new car dealers are more motivated to reduce price? In August they start getting next year’s new cars. By October they have to make room for the new cars and wheel and deal. If a car is not so popular, they will reduce it to clear out the inventory.

My friend tried to get a Jeep Rubicon last year. Impossible to get or find. Waiting list. He gave up and bought something else. Still hard to find, but he’s happy w/his new vehicle.

I guess two thing happen. Eventually price gets reduced or you find something else at a price you like.

[jpinpb]

I admit my naievity. Aren’t there time during the year when new car dealers are more motivated to reduce price? In August they start getting next year’s new cars. By October they have to make room for the new cars and wheel and deal. If a car is not so popular, they will reduce it to clear out the inventory.

My friend tried to get a Jeep Rubicon last year. Impossible to get or find. Waiting list. He gave up and bought something else. Still hard to find, but he’s happy w/his new vehicle.

I guess two thing happen. Eventually price gets reduced or you find something else at a price you like.

[jpinpb]

I admit my naievity. Aren’t there time during the year when new car dealers are more motivated to reduce price? In August they start getting next year’s new cars. By October they have to make room for the new cars and wheel and deal. If a car is not so popular, they will reduce it to clear out the inventory.

My friend tried to get a Jeep Rubicon last year. Impossible to get or find. Waiting list. He gave up and bought something else. Still hard to find, but he’s happy w/his new vehicle.

I guess two thing happen. Eventually price gets reduced or you find something else at a price you like.

[jpinpb]

I admit my naievity. Aren’t there time during the year when new car dealers are more motivated to reduce price? In August they start getting next year’s new cars. By October they have to make room for the new cars and wheel and deal. If a car is not so popular, they will reduce it to clear out the inventory.

My friend tried to get a Jeep Rubicon last year. Impossible to get or find. Waiting list. He gave up and bought something else. Still hard to find, but he’s happy w/his new vehicle.

I guess two thing happen. Eventually price gets reduced or you find something else at a price you like.

[an]

For one, low balling is not the same as the analogy you or I put up. Low balling is like negotiating with the dealer near you who’s selling at or above MSRP and getting near invoice instead. I think you’ve mistaken me with someone else too. Effective for me? I’m just being patient and waiting this thing out. But effective is all relative. I’m sure the person who bought this thinks it’s pretty effective. Builder was asking for around $830k and final sale price was around $750k. That’s 10% off asking price. Do you think this low ball offer was effective? I think it was pretty effective in term of getting the house for 10% below asking price. But that’s still over priced to me.

In regards to builder holding firm, a friend of mine just visited Pienza last weekend. They were asking $780k for the model he liked. But then immediately after saying the price, they told him the price is negotiable and he could get as much as $60k in incentives. So, Ray, do you really think the seller won’t budge? Obviously they won’t go as low as I want them to. I want invoice price but not all cars can be had at invoice price. Some can be had under invoice.

[an]

For one, low balling is not the same as the analogy you or I put up. Low balling is like negotiating with the dealer near you who’s selling at or above MSRP and getting near invoice instead. I think you’ve mistaken me with someone else too. Effective for me? I’m just being patient and waiting this thing out. But effective is all relative. I’m sure the person who bought this thinks it’s pretty effective. Builder was asking for around $830k and final sale price was around $750k. That’s 10% off asking price. Do you think this low ball offer was effective? I think it was pretty effective in term of getting the house for 10% below asking price. But that’s still over priced to me.

In regards to builder holding firm, a friend of mine just visited Pienza last weekend. They were asking $780k for the model he liked. But then immediately after saying the price, they told him the price is negotiable and he could get as much as $60k in incentives. So, Ray, do you really think the seller won’t budge? Obviously they won’t go as low as I want them to. I want invoice price but not all cars can be had at invoice price. Some can be had under invoice.

[an]

For one, low balling is not the same as the analogy you or I put up. Low balling is like negotiating with the dealer near you who’s selling at or above MSRP and getting near invoice instead. I think you’ve mistaken me with someone else too. Effective for me? I’m just being patient and waiting this thing out. But effective is all relative. I’m sure the person who bought this thinks it’s pretty effective. Builder was asking for around $830k and final sale price was around $750k. That’s 10% off asking price. Do you think this low ball offer was effective? I think it was pretty effective in term of getting the house for 10% below asking price. But that’s still over priced to me.

In regards to builder holding firm, a friend of mine just visited Pienza last weekend. They were asking $780k for the model he liked. But then immediately after saying the price, they told him the price is negotiable and he could get as much as $60k in incentives. So, Ray, do you really think the seller won’t budge? Obviously they won’t go as low as I want them to. I want invoice price but not all cars can be had at invoice price. Some can be had under invoice.

[an]

For one, low balling is not the same as the analogy you or I put up. Low balling is like negotiating with the dealer near you who’s selling at or above MSRP and getting near invoice instead. I think you’ve mistaken me with someone else too. Effective for me? I’m just being patient and waiting this thing out. But effective is all relative. I’m sure the person who bought this thinks it’s pretty effective. Builder was asking for around $830k and final sale price was around $750k. That’s 10% off asking price. Do you think this low ball offer was effective? I think it was pretty effective in term of getting the house for 10% below asking price. But that’s still over priced to me.

In regards to builder holding firm, a friend of mine just visited Pienza last weekend. They were asking $780k for the model he liked. But then immediately after saying the price, they told him the price is negotiable and he could get as much as $60k in incentives. So, Ray, do you really think the seller won’t budge? Obviously they won’t go as low as I want them to. I want invoice price but not all cars can be had at invoice price. Some can be had under invoice.

[Raybyrnes]

asianautica

What happened to all those low ball offers. I swear you were going to throw pie in my face about how effective they were for you.

[Raybyrnes]

asianautica

What happened to all those low ball offers. I swear you were going to throw pie in my face about how effective they were for you.

[Raybyrnes]

asianautica

What happened to all those low ball offers. I swear you were going to throw pie in my face about how effective they were for you.

[Raybyrnes]

asianautica

What happened to all those low ball offers. I swear you were going to throw pie in my face about how effective they were for you.

[an]

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

That Porsche analogy only apply if we want RSF homes for Mira Mesa price. We’re just trying to get an Accord for a Camry’s price and that’s pretty doable.

[an]

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

That Porsche analogy only apply if we want RSF homes for Mira Mesa price. We’re just trying to get an Accord for a Camry’s price and that’s pretty doable.

[an]

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

That Porsche analogy only apply if we want RSF homes for Mira Mesa price. We’re just trying to get an Accord for a Camry’s price and that’s pretty doable.

[an]

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

That Porsche analogy only apply if we want RSF homes for Mira Mesa price. We’re just trying to get an Accord for a Camry’s price and that’s pretty doable.

[jpinpb]

For some reason I thought builders take out construction loans over a certain period of time that eventually needs to get paid. Over however many developments and units, I would think that would start adding up and bills piling up. Some units end up BOM. With increasing inventory and competing w/resale, you would think they would be eager to sell. Eventually they will have to pay the piper. Look at DR Horton liquidating in the Temecula/Riverside/San Bernardino area. Is San Diego next? Will other developers follow suit?

[jpinpb]

For some reason I thought builders take out construction loans over a certain period of time that eventually needs to get paid. Over however many developments and units, I would think that would start adding up and bills piling up. Some units end up BOM. With increasing inventory and competing w/resale, you would think they would be eager to sell. Eventually they will have to pay the piper. Look at DR Horton liquidating in the Temecula/Riverside/San Bernardino area. Is San Diego next? Will other developers follow suit?

[jpinpb]

For some reason I thought builders take out construction loans over a certain period of time that eventually needs to get paid. Over however many developments and units, I would think that would start adding up and bills piling up. Some units end up BOM. With increasing inventory and competing w/resale, you would think they would be eager to sell. Eventually they will have to pay the piper. Look at DR Horton liquidating in the Temecula/Riverside/San Bernardino area. Is San Diego next? Will other developers follow suit?

[jpinpb]

For some reason I thought builders take out construction loans over a certain period of time that eventually needs to get paid. Over however many developments and units, I would think that would start adding up and bills piling up. Some units end up BOM. With increasing inventory and competing w/resale, you would think they would be eager to sell. Eventually they will have to pay the piper. Look at DR Horton liquidating in the Temecula/Riverside/San Bernardino area. Is San Diego next? Will other developers follow suit?

[jpinpb]

For some reason I thought builders take out construction loans over a certain period of time that eventually needs to get paid. Over however many developments and units, I would think that would start adding up and bills piling up. Some units end up BOM. With increasing inventory and competing w/resale, you would think they would be eager to sell. Eventually they will have to pay the piper. Look at DR Horton liquidating in the Temecula/Riverside/San Bernardino area. Is San Diego next? Will other developers follow suit?

[Raybyrnes]

Not prodding you to buy but no reason for a builder to sell either. At leaset not to a retail person.

Who are public builders selling too. Smart ones are selling an interest to investment banks and carrying the loss back against their taxable gains over the last 5 years. They can structure the deals so that they still control the property and now have regained some margin in future sales.

If you ahve the cash and want a good price on a house start finding REO’s in the area, forget about the custom BS and make an offer at the price you think it is worth. Would be far more successful and productive wiht this approach as opposed to complaining about builders salespeople not kissing your ass when you clearly state that you are not going to buy their product at that price.

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

[Raybyrnes]

Not prodding you to buy but no reason for a builder to sell either. At leaset not to a retail person.

Who are public builders selling too. Smart ones are selling an interest to investment banks and carrying the loss back against their taxable gains over the last 5 years. They can structure the deals so that they still control the property and now have regained some margin in future sales.

If you ahve the cash and want a good price on a house start finding REO’s in the area, forget about the custom BS and make an offer at the price you think it is worth. Would be far more successful and productive wiht this approach as opposed to complaining about builders salespeople not kissing your ass when you clearly state that you are not going to buy their product at that price.

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

[Raybyrnes]

Not prodding you to buy but no reason for a builder to sell either. At leaset not to a retail person.

Who are public builders selling too. Smart ones are selling an interest to investment banks and carrying the loss back against their taxable gains over the last 5 years. They can structure the deals so that they still control the property and now have regained some margin in future sales.

If you ahve the cash and want a good price on a house start finding REO’s in the area, forget about the custom BS and make an offer at the price you think it is worth. Would be far more successful and productive wiht this approach as opposed to complaining about builders salespeople not kissing your ass when you clearly state that you are not going to buy their product at that price.

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

[Raybyrnes]

Not prodding you to buy but no reason for a builder to sell either. At leaset not to a retail person.

Who are public builders selling too. Smart ones are selling an interest to investment banks and carrying the loss back against their taxable gains over the last 5 years. They can structure the deals so that they still control the property and now have regained some margin in future sales.

If you ahve the cash and want a good price on a house start finding REO’s in the area, forget about the custom BS and make an offer at the price you think it is worth. Would be far more successful and productive wiht this approach as opposed to complaining about builders salespeople not kissing your ass when you clearly state that you are not going to buy their product at that price.

Don’t go to a Porche dealership and expect them to sell you a Porche at a Honda price simply because they are not selling a lot of cars.

[4spotentialbuyer]

I agree with jpinpb. At this point it is a stand off. As for all the other suggestions about how qualified we are, etc…we are already preapproved with their lender…have more than enough in cash, assets, income, etc to qualify for a loan, the point is that SELLERS, whether it is a builder or a resell, have not reached the same conclusion that may on this board have….that real estate in San Diego is only declining in value….We have already decided that we WILL not buy unless we see more price drops.

[4spotentialbuyer]

I agree with jpinpb. At this point it is a stand off. As for all the other suggestions about how qualified we are, etc…we are already preapproved with their lender…have more than enough in cash, assets, income, etc to qualify for a loan, the point is that SELLERS, whether it is a builder or a resell, have not reached the same conclusion that may on this board have….that real estate in San Diego is only declining in value….We have already decided that we WILL not buy unless we see more price drops.

[4spotentialbuyer]

I agree with jpinpb. At this point it is a stand off. As for all the other suggestions about how qualified we are, etc…we are already preapproved with their lender…have more than enough in cash, assets, income, etc to qualify for a loan, the point is that SELLERS, whether it is a builder or a resell, have not reached the same conclusion that may on this board have….that real estate in San Diego is only declining in value….We have already decided that we WILL not buy unless we see more price drops.

[4spotentialbuyer]

I agree with jpinpb. At this point it is a stand off. As for all the other suggestions about how qualified we are, etc…we are already preapproved with their lender…have more than enough in cash, assets, income, etc to qualify for a loan, the point is that SELLERS, whether it is a builder or a resell, have not reached the same conclusion that may on this board have….that real estate in San Diego is only declining in value….We have already decided that we WILL not buy unless we see more price drops.

[jpinpb]

I think it may have been somewhere on this board that I read people don’t HAVE to buy, but sometimes people HAVE to sell, something like that
If it’s becomes a stand off, who can last the longest?

[jpinpb]

I think it may have been somewhere on this board that I read people don’t HAVE to buy, but sometimes people HAVE to sell, something like that
If it’s becomes a stand off, who can last the longest?

[jpinpb]

I think it may have been somewhere on this board that I read people don’t HAVE to buy, but sometimes people HAVE to sell, something like that
If it’s becomes a stand off, who can last the longest?

[jpinpb]

I think it may have been somewhere on this board that I read people don’t HAVE to buy, but sometimes people HAVE to sell, something like that
If it’s becomes a stand off, who can last the longest?

[sandiego]

If you are only putting down 20% you will need to get a loan. Therefore, your purchase is CONTINGENT on getting financing.

As Raybyrnes stated, come in with a pre-approved letter. Otherwise, you are a looky-lou.

The Public builders have already written down the value of the standing inventory. They don’t have the axe over their head as much as you think.

The smaller, private builders can’t drop prices willy-nilly. They have lenders and partners to answer to. I am not saying that they might not drop prices later in the year but they will need approval from their lenders and partners. At some point, the builder doesn’t have any skin in the game anymore and their equity is gone. They have no incentive to drop the price (unless they have personal guarantees to the lender).

San Diego doesn’t have the huge oversupply of new detached homes that they have in the Inland Empire. You can probably negotiate harder out there.

Downtown condos are obvioulsy overbuilt. I don’t know how they will unwind those.

[sandiego]

If you are only putting down 20% you will need to get a loan. Therefore, your purchase is CONTINGENT on getting financing.

As Raybyrnes stated, come in with a pre-approved letter. Otherwise, you are a looky-lou.

The Public builders have already written down the value of the standing inventory. They don’t have the axe over their head as much as you think.

The smaller, private builders can’t drop prices willy-nilly. They have lenders and partners to answer to. I am not saying that they might not drop prices later in the year but they will need approval from their lenders and partners. At some point, the builder doesn’t have any skin in the game anymore and their equity is gone. They have no incentive to drop the price (unless they have personal guarantees to the lender).

San Diego doesn’t have the huge oversupply of new detached homes that they have in the Inland Empire. You can probably negotiate harder out there.

Downtown condos are obvioulsy overbuilt. I don’t know how they will unwind those.

[sandiego]

If you are only putting down 20% you will need to get a loan. Therefore, your purchase is CONTINGENT on getting financing.

As Raybyrnes stated, come in with a pre-approved letter. Otherwise, you are a looky-lou.

The Public builders have already written down the value of the standing inventory. They don’t have the axe over their head as much as you think.

The smaller, private builders can’t drop prices willy-nilly. They have lenders and partners to answer to. I am not saying that they might not drop prices later in the year but they will need approval from their lenders and partners. At some point, the builder doesn’t have any skin in the game anymore and their equity is gone. They have no incentive to drop the price (unless they have personal guarantees to the lender).

San Diego doesn’t have the huge oversupply of new detached homes that they have in the Inland Empire. You can probably negotiate harder out there.

Downtown condos are obvioulsy overbuilt. I don’t know how they will unwind those.

[sandiego]

If you are only putting down 20% you will need to get a loan. Therefore, your purchase is CONTINGENT on getting financing.

As Raybyrnes stated, come in with a pre-approved letter. Otherwise, you are a looky-lou.

The Public builders have already written down the value of the standing inventory. They don’t have the axe over their head as much as you think.

The smaller, private builders can’t drop prices willy-nilly. They have lenders and partners to answer to. I am not saying that they might not drop prices later in the year but they will need approval from their lenders and partners. At some point, the builder doesn’t have any skin in the game anymore and their equity is gone. They have no incentive to drop the price (unless they have personal guarantees to the lender).

San Diego doesn’t have the huge oversupply of new detached homes that they have in the Inland Empire. You can probably negotiate harder out there.

Downtown condos are obvioulsy overbuilt. I don’t know how they will unwind those.

[4spotentialbuyer]

In response to:

Submitted by Raybyrnes on February 19, 2008 – 10:28am.
I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

-We are prequalified and will down more than 20% plus have the income required to qualify for the homes in 4S Ranch at these outrageous prices. We just don’t feel that market justifies paying 750K plus for these homes. There are not many qualified noncontigent buyers left and the point is that the salespeople need to realize that this is not a seller’s market.

[4spotentialbuyer]

In response to:

Submitted by Raybyrnes on February 19, 2008 – 10:28am.
I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

-We are prequalified and will down more than 20% plus have the income required to qualify for the homes in 4S Ranch at these outrageous prices. We just don’t feel that market justifies paying 750K plus for these homes. There are not many qualified noncontigent buyers left and the point is that the salespeople need to realize that this is not a seller’s market.

[4spotentialbuyer]

In response to:

Submitted by Raybyrnes on February 19, 2008 – 10:28am.
I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

-We are prequalified and will down more than 20% plus have the income required to qualify for the homes in 4S Ranch at these outrageous prices. We just don’t feel that market justifies paying 750K plus for these homes. There are not many qualified noncontigent buyers left and the point is that the salespeople need to realize that this is not a seller’s market.

[4spotentialbuyer]

In response to:

Submitted by Raybyrnes on February 19, 2008 – 10:28am.
I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

-We are prequalified and will down more than 20% plus have the income required to qualify for the homes in 4S Ranch at these outrageous prices. We just don’t feel that market justifies paying 750K plus for these homes. There are not many qualified noncontigent buyers left and the point is that the salespeople need to realize that this is not a seller’s market.

[Raybyrnes]

I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

As you state you are not buying at the moment therefore you are not a sales prospect. They should not waste too much time on you.

Secondly you said you went in thinking you were going to get a screaming deal. Maybe the builder has a different strategy to wait things out. May or may not prove to be more profitable then giving away home or taking a loss.

The bottom line is that regardless of how you look or are dressed if you want to see what a salesperson can do put down a pre approved letter form the bank and that will warrant their time.

Otherwise if you are a looky lou than just be content to look. Nothing wrong with that.

[Raybyrnes]

I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

As you state you are not buying at the moment therefore you are not a sales prospect. They should not waste too much time on you.

Secondly you said you went in thinking you were going to get a screaming deal. Maybe the builder has a different strategy to wait things out. May or may not prove to be more profitable then giving away home or taking a loss.

The bottom line is that regardless of how you look or are dressed if you want to see what a salesperson can do put down a pre approved letter form the bank and that will warrant their time.

Otherwise if you are a looky lou than just be content to look. Nothing wrong with that.

[Raybyrnes]

I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

As you state you are not buying at the moment therefore you are not a sales prospect. They should not waste too much time on you.

Secondly you said you went in thinking you were going to get a screaming deal. Maybe the builder has a different strategy to wait things out. May or may not prove to be more profitable then giving away home or taking a loss.

The bottom line is that regardless of how you look or are dressed if you want to see what a salesperson can do put down a pre approved letter form the bank and that will warrant their time.

Otherwise if you are a looky lou than just be content to look. Nothing wrong with that.

[Raybyrnes]

I always find it amazing that people call salespeople rude when they do not find that they are going to give things away.

As you state you are not buying at the moment therefore you are not a sales prospect. They should not waste too much time on you.

Secondly you said you went in thinking you were going to get a screaming deal. Maybe the builder has a different strategy to wait things out. May or may not prove to be more profitable then giving away home or taking a loss.

The bottom line is that regardless of how you look or are dressed if you want to see what a salesperson can do put down a pre approved letter form the bank and that will warrant their time.

Otherwise if you are a looky lou than just be content to look. Nothing wrong with that.

[arenter]

I would say this is true for other builders as well. We went to check out places in Oceanside (Montemar and Parkside), thinking they would have screaming deals considering they are in a bad-rep area with high mello-roos. We’re not buying anytime soon and by no means were we giving off any desparation waves, we were just in the neighborhood and like looking at model homes. The salespeople there were exactly how you described the 4S people – condascending, rude, with the “oh, we’ve sold most of this phase already” – attitude. I just didn’t get it. Though, we were looking like scrubs, touting our two kids and me being 8-mos pregnant – I guess they didn’t figure we were bringing in 6-figure salaries. And, homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside – even for a brand-new house??!!

[arenter]

I would say this is true for other builders as well. We went to check out places in Oceanside (Montemar and Parkside), thinking they would have screaming deals considering they are in a bad-rep area with high mello-roos. We’re not buying anytime soon and by no means were we giving off any desparation waves, we were just in the neighborhood and like looking at model homes. The salespeople there were exactly how you described the 4S people – condascending, rude, with the “oh, we’ve sold most of this phase already” – attitude. I just didn’t get it. Though, we were looking like scrubs, touting our two kids and me being 8-mos pregnant – I guess they didn’t figure we were bringing in 6-figure salaries. And, homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside – even for a brand-new house??!!

[arenter]

I would say this is true for other builders as well. We went to check out places in Oceanside (Montemar and Parkside), thinking they would have screaming deals considering they are in a bad-rep area with high mello-roos. We’re not buying anytime soon and by no means were we giving off any desparation waves, we were just in the neighborhood and like looking at model homes. The salespeople there were exactly how you described the 4S people – condascending, rude, with the “oh, we’ve sold most of this phase already” – attitude. I just didn’t get it. Though, we were looking like scrubs, touting our two kids and me being 8-mos pregnant – I guess they didn’t figure we were bringing in 6-figure salaries. And, homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside – even for a brand-new house??!!

[arenter]

I would say this is true for other builders as well. We went to check out places in Oceanside (Montemar and Parkside), thinking they would have screaming deals considering they are in a bad-rep area with high mello-roos. We’re not buying anytime soon and by no means were we giving off any desparation waves, we were just in the neighborhood and like looking at model homes. The salespeople there were exactly how you described the 4S people – condascending, rude, with the “oh, we’ve sold most of this phase already” – attitude. I just didn’t get it. Though, we were looking like scrubs, touting our two kids and me being 8-mos pregnant – I guess they didn’t figure we were bringing in 6-figure salaries. And, homes were still going for $650K+ – unbelievable!! Who would spend that much in Oceanside – even for a brand-new house??!!

[civrealtor]

Is Chanteclair becoming so desperate? I recently received a letter from them about a new special FHA loan program which contains the following points:
1. New load limit of $697,500
2. No Minimum FICO score
3. No set income limits
4. Down payment assistance program.

Doesn’t this look familiar to you guys? Isn’t this country having enough problem with previous reckless loan practices? What is this FHA loan program trying to do? Creating more bad loans? I am really confused here. Anyone can explain a little bit here for me?

[SDEngineer]

Well, the FHA does require full-doc of income and reasonable debt ratios (I believe they’re at 29/41 right now), so it’s hard to compare them to the liar loans that most were using to buy beyond their means. While there’s no set income limit to use a FHA loan, to get the $697500 loan, the buyers would have to be able to document around 230K a year in earnings, without excessive debt on top of that.

I think the value increase was a bad idea on the FHA’s part (since their intended purpose was to help first-time buyers, hence the low down requirements), mostly because, even in San Diego, at least now (though maybe not in 2005/2006) you can get a starter house for their max previous (about 363K). I doubt many people would consider a 700K house a “starter” house.

[robyns_song]

For those of you intersted, we stopped by Silhouette today and picked up their price list:

Explorer (residence one) 2559-2691 sq ft: $661,990
Surfer (residence two) 3070-3213: $702,990
Dreamer (residence three) 3185-3356 sq ft: $725,990 (anticipated release amount–plan 3 is not available right now)

The sales lady stated that there were 6 homes available since the October release and they expect this phase to be completed soon. There are a total of 9 phases–they are currently on phase 5. The sales lady said the “business plan” was to complete all nine phases by next June…without a price reduction (?). We’ll see what happens…

[5yearwaiter]

Still these are way high prices. If you look into 4S Ranch in the 2002-2003 the prices for this kind of homes are around 500K to 520K for 3000 sft homes.

There is clear estimation of slide is going to be 38% for San Diego(bit time to wait) then these new homes also adjust to the price that were set around 2002 year. There is no use to buy in a rush and first avoid the great recession and it tells who stand and who ran and who will still buy – a great time to wait

5yearswaiter

[4spotentialbuyer]

500-520K for 3000sq ft in 4S? While I would love for the price to go back to 2002-2003, you would also have to account for normal appreciation. We thought those prices were good (702 for Silhouette and Pienza reduced some homes by 80K to 704K) and we almost bought…however we are trying to hold out. What do our realtors on this site think the price will stablize to for a 3000 sq ft home? e thought 600-650 would be a good price.

[SD Realtor]

Hard to say where it will get to in the short run. Right now the cheapest resale over 3k sf is the Ralphs Ranch listing at 702k and that is new construction. You could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months. Maybe even a distress sale here or there but it will get snapped up quick. If we get a real fast interest rate hike or severe unemployment that would help. If the feds bailout some of those distressed homeowners and let them refinance to a lower nut then that will not help. People don’t want to hear that though.

In the long run I think it will come down.

SD Realtor

[Sandi Egan]

4S Ranch is going to feel prolonged pressure even as other areas hit bottom and start to recover. It’s mostly new and mostly Alt-A. It is relatively unaffected by current subprime turmoil, but the wave of Alt-A resets is just picking up and is going to continue through 2011.
http://www.bubbleinfo.com/journal/2008/3/24/somber-reminder.html

you could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months.
SD R, somebody on this site mentioned several month ago that his $670K offer was accepted for a new 4S 3K sqft home. Do you think that was a one-off occurrence?

[SD Realtor]

Sandi, it very well could have happened. I was up at 4S two weeks ago with some clients and we tried negotiating and got shut down pretty hard. The best opportunities when you deal with the builders is to try to find something that has dropped out of escrow and is REALLY close to closing. You may even get them to budge. Otherwise I have had a hard time getting much out of them. You can get concessions with regards to upgrades and such, but getting the pricing adjusted is tougher. However if someone got the builder to go significantly lower then more power to them!

SD Realtor

[eyePod]

Getting back to some of the original comments, no one has stated what to me is obvious – the arrogrant sales people are just reflecting a VERY common attitude in San Diego and particularly in these areas. Is it just me or has anyone noticed the lack of soul and complete self absorption with money in areas like Carmel Valley? It’s so shallow.

[Aecetia]

It is not just you. Your comments are spot on. The sales people mirror the community they are selling.

[Aecetia]

It is not just you. Your comments are spot on. The sales people mirror the community they are selling.

[Aecetia]

It is not just you. Your comments are spot on. The sales people mirror the community they are selling.

[Aecetia]

It is not just you. Your comments are spot on. The sales people mirror the community they are selling.

[Aecetia]

It is not just you. Your comments are spot on. The sales people mirror the community they are selling.

[Werewolf]

Carmel Valley is a bit soul-less (I live in it). I think people who live here buy into the status quo and are affected by their neighbors…so you lease the Lexus (b/c you can
t buy it) and you join the healthclub and that is your life…

[Aecetia]

Foreclosure Ranch? Excerpts from “It’s not over…”

“Of course, all those people stuck between rising mortgages and falling prices are free to follow Paulson’s advice: Keep making payments on an outsized mortgage, and take a bullet for the greater economic good. Fortunately for them, and perhaps unfortunately for the economy, a lot of them will come to the realization that they just don’t have to.”

Mark Gimein is a New York-based writer.

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2188982/

[jpinpb]

I was on SPH mailing list from way back when they first started developing in 4$. Checked my mailbox and found a flyer they sent to me which said (tried not to panic, cause it’s your last chance, you know), “Your chance to live in 4S Ranch. Don’t miss your chance….blah, blah….top selling communities…blah, blah, stylish designer upgrades, Gianni’s low monthly payments, low maintenance lifestyle, blah, blah.”
15k credit towards interest rate buydown, closing costs, designer upgrades when finance w/Standard Pacific Mortgage.

Also said, “Ask about 0 down payment program (FHA loan w/NEHEMIAH gift funds)”

Fine print, in lieu of 15k, FHA 97% w/3% down through Nehemiah.

Sounds like the builders are coming around some. The interest rate buydown sounds vaguely familiar to back in 1989/90 when developers were doing that.

Also got a very similar flyer for Standard Pacific Homes for Del Servitude, same deal 15k or 0 down FHA/Nehemiah, this for Bridgewalk.

BTW, is it just me, or does 588,900k seem high for those claustrophic Bridgewalk row houses out in the sticks?

I understand many are interested in 4S and Del Sur and at one time I checked there(can’t believe it) (still getting flyers) but IMO still way too high, low 400k for Gianni/Joke townhomes, not to mention HOA and MR.

[Aecetia]

bump

[Aecetia]

bump

[Aecetia]

bump

[Aecetia]

bump

[Aecetia]

bump

[jpinpb]

I was on SPH mailing list from way back when they first started developing in 4$. Checked my mailbox and found a flyer they sent to me which said (tried not to panic, cause it’s your last chance, you know), “Your chance to live in 4S Ranch. Don’t miss your chance….blah, blah….top selling communities…blah, blah, stylish designer upgrades, Gianni’s low monthly payments, low maintenance lifestyle, blah, blah.”
15k credit towards interest rate buydown, closing costs, designer upgrades when finance w/Standard Pacific Mortgage.

Also said, “Ask about 0 down payment program (FHA loan w/NEHEMIAH gift funds)”

Fine print, in lieu of 15k, FHA 97% w/3% down through Nehemiah.

Sounds like the builders are coming around some. The interest rate buydown sounds vaguely familiar to back in 1989/90 when developers were doing that.

Also got a very similar flyer for Standard Pacific Homes for Del Servitude, same deal 15k or 0 down FHA/Nehemiah, this for Bridgewalk.

BTW, is it just me, or does 588,900k seem high for those claustrophic Bridgewalk row houses out in the sticks?

I understand many are interested in 4S and Del Sur and at one time I checked there(can’t believe it) (still getting flyers) but IMO still way too high, low 400k for Gianni/Joke townhomes, not to mention HOA and MR.

[jpinpb]

I was on SPH mailing list from way back when they first started developing in 4$. Checked my mailbox and found a flyer they sent to me which said (tried not to panic, cause it’s your last chance, you know), “Your chance to live in 4S Ranch. Don’t miss your chance….blah, blah….top selling communities…blah, blah, stylish designer upgrades, Gianni’s low monthly payments, low maintenance lifestyle, blah, blah.”
15k credit towards interest rate buydown, closing costs, designer upgrades when finance w/Standard Pacific Mortgage.

Also said, “Ask about 0 down payment program (FHA loan w/NEHEMIAH gift funds)”

Fine print, in lieu of 15k, FHA 97% w/3% down through Nehemiah.

Sounds like the builders are coming around some. The interest rate buydown sounds vaguely familiar to back in 1989/90 when developers were doing that.

Also got a very similar flyer for Standard Pacific Homes for Del Servitude, same deal 15k or 0 down FHA/Nehemiah, this for Bridgewalk.

BTW, is it just me, or does 588,900k seem high for those claustrophic Bridgewalk row houses out in the sticks?

I understand many are interested in 4S and Del Sur and at one time I checked there(can’t believe it) (still getting flyers) but IMO still way too high, low 400k for Gianni/Joke townhomes, not to mention HOA and MR.

[jpinpb]

I was on SPH mailing list from way back when they first started developing in 4$. Checked my mailbox and found a flyer they sent to me which said (tried not to panic, cause it’s your last chance, you know), “Your chance to live in 4S Ranch. Don’t miss your chance….blah, blah….top selling communities…blah, blah, stylish designer upgrades, Gianni’s low monthly payments, low maintenance lifestyle, blah, blah.”
15k credit towards interest rate buydown, closing costs, designer upgrades when finance w/Standard Pacific Mortgage.

Also said, “Ask about 0 down payment program (FHA loan w/NEHEMIAH gift funds)”

Fine print, in lieu of 15k, FHA 97% w/3% down through Nehemiah.

Sounds like the builders are coming around some. The interest rate buydown sounds vaguely familiar to back in 1989/90 when developers were doing that.

Also got a very similar flyer for Standard Pacific Homes for Del Servitude, same deal 15k or 0 down FHA/Nehemiah, this for Bridgewalk.

BTW, is it just me, or does 588,900k seem high for those claustrophic Bridgewalk row houses out in the sticks?

I understand many are interested in 4S and Del Sur and at one time I checked there(can’t believe it) (still getting flyers) but IMO still way too high, low 400k for Gianni/Joke townhomes, not to mention HOA and MR.

[jpinpb]

I was on SPH mailing list from way back when they first started developing in 4$. Checked my mailbox and found a flyer they sent to me which said (tried not to panic, cause it’s your last chance, you know), “Your chance to live in 4S Ranch. Don’t miss your chance….blah, blah….top selling communities…blah, blah, stylish designer upgrades, Gianni’s low monthly payments, low maintenance lifestyle, blah, blah.”
15k credit towards interest rate buydown, closing costs, designer upgrades when finance w/Standard Pacific Mortgage.

Also said, “Ask about 0 down payment program (FHA loan w/NEHEMIAH gift funds)”

Fine print, in lieu of 15k, FHA 97% w/3% down through Nehemiah.

Sounds like the builders are coming around some. The interest rate buydown sounds vaguely familiar to back in 1989/90 when developers were doing that.

Also got a very similar flyer for Standard Pacific Homes for Del Servitude, same deal 15k or 0 down FHA/Nehemiah, this for Bridgewalk.

BTW, is it just me, or does 588,900k seem high for those claustrophic Bridgewalk row houses out in the sticks?

I understand many are interested in 4S and Del Sur and at one time I checked there(can’t believe it) (still getting flyers) but IMO still way too high, low 400k for Gianni/Joke townhomes, not to mention HOA and MR.

[Aecetia]

Foreclosure Ranch? Excerpts from “It’s not over…”

“Of course, all those people stuck between rising mortgages and falling prices are free to follow Paulson’s advice: Keep making payments on an outsized mortgage, and take a bullet for the greater economic good. Fortunately for them, and perhaps unfortunately for the economy, a lot of them will come to the realization that they just don’t have to.”

Mark Gimein is a New York-based writer.

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2188982/

[Aecetia]

Foreclosure Ranch? Excerpts from “It’s not over…”

“Of course, all those people stuck between rising mortgages and falling prices are free to follow Paulson’s advice: Keep making payments on an outsized mortgage, and take a bullet for the greater economic good. Fortunately for them, and perhaps unfortunately for the economy, a lot of them will come to the realization that they just don’t have to.”

Mark Gimein is a New York-based writer.

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2188982/

[Aecetia]

Foreclosure Ranch? Excerpts from “It’s not over…”

“Of course, all those people stuck between rising mortgages and falling prices are free to follow Paulson’s advice: Keep making payments on an outsized mortgage, and take a bullet for the greater economic good. Fortunately for them, and perhaps unfortunately for the economy, a lot of them will come to the realization that they just don’t have to.”

Mark Gimein is a New York-based writer.

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2188982/

[Aecetia]

Foreclosure Ranch? Excerpts from “It’s not over…”

“Of course, all those people stuck between rising mortgages and falling prices are free to follow Paulson’s advice: Keep making payments on an outsized mortgage, and take a bullet for the greater economic good. Fortunately for them, and perhaps unfortunately for the economy, a lot of them will come to the realization that they just don’t have to.”

Mark Gimein is a New York-based writer.

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2188982/

[Werewolf]

Carmel Valley is a bit soul-less (I live in it). I think people who live here buy into the status quo and are affected by their neighbors…so you lease the Lexus (b/c you can
t buy it) and you join the healthclub and that is your life…

[Werewolf]

Carmel Valley is a bit soul-less (I live in it). I think people who live here buy into the status quo and are affected by their neighbors…so you lease the Lexus (b/c you can
t buy it) and you join the healthclub and that is your life…

[Werewolf]

Carmel Valley is a bit soul-less (I live in it). I think people who live here buy into the status quo and are affected by their neighbors…so you lease the Lexus (b/c you can
t buy it) and you join the healthclub and that is your life…

[Werewolf]

Carmel Valley is a bit soul-less (I live in it). I think people who live here buy into the status quo and are affected by their neighbors…so you lease the Lexus (b/c you can
t buy it) and you join the healthclub and that is your life…

[eyePod]

Getting back to some of the original comments, no one has stated what to me is obvious – the arrogrant sales people are just reflecting a VERY common attitude in San Diego and particularly in these areas. Is it just me or has anyone noticed the lack of soul and complete self absorption with money in areas like Carmel Valley? It’s so shallow.

[eyePod]

Getting back to some of the original comments, no one has stated what to me is obvious – the arrogrant sales people are just reflecting a VERY common attitude in San Diego and particularly in these areas. Is it just me or has anyone noticed the lack of soul and complete self absorption with money in areas like Carmel Valley? It’s so shallow.

[eyePod]

Getting back to some of the original comments, no one has stated what to me is obvious – the arrogrant sales people are just reflecting a VERY common attitude in San Diego and particularly in these areas. Is it just me or has anyone noticed the lack of soul and complete self absorption with money in areas like Carmel Valley? It’s so shallow.

[eyePod]

Getting back to some of the original comments, no one has stated what to me is obvious – the arrogrant sales people are just reflecting a VERY common attitude in San Diego and particularly in these areas. Is it just me or has anyone noticed the lack of soul and complete self absorption with money in areas like Carmel Valley? It’s so shallow.

[SD Realtor]

Sandi, it very well could have happened. I was up at 4S two weeks ago with some clients and we tried negotiating and got shut down pretty hard. The best opportunities when you deal with the builders is to try to find something that has dropped out of escrow and is REALLY close to closing. You may even get them to budge. Otherwise I have had a hard time getting much out of them. You can get concessions with regards to upgrades and such, but getting the pricing adjusted is tougher. However if someone got the builder to go significantly lower then more power to them!

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Sandi, it very well could have happened. I was up at 4S two weeks ago with some clients and we tried negotiating and got shut down pretty hard. The best opportunities when you deal with the builders is to try to find something that has dropped out of escrow and is REALLY close to closing. You may even get them to budge. Otherwise I have had a hard time getting much out of them. You can get concessions with regards to upgrades and such, but getting the pricing adjusted is tougher. However if someone got the builder to go significantly lower then more power to them!

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Sandi, it very well could have happened. I was up at 4S two weeks ago with some clients and we tried negotiating and got shut down pretty hard. The best opportunities when you deal with the builders is to try to find something that has dropped out of escrow and is REALLY close to closing. You may even get them to budge. Otherwise I have had a hard time getting much out of them. You can get concessions with regards to upgrades and such, but getting the pricing adjusted is tougher. However if someone got the builder to go significantly lower then more power to them!

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Sandi, it very well could have happened. I was up at 4S two weeks ago with some clients and we tried negotiating and got shut down pretty hard. The best opportunities when you deal with the builders is to try to find something that has dropped out of escrow and is REALLY close to closing. You may even get them to budge. Otherwise I have had a hard time getting much out of them. You can get concessions with regards to upgrades and such, but getting the pricing adjusted is tougher. However if someone got the builder to go significantly lower then more power to them!

SD Realtor

[Sandi Egan]

4S Ranch is going to feel prolonged pressure even as other areas hit bottom and start to recover. It’s mostly new and mostly Alt-A. It is relatively unaffected by current subprime turmoil, but the wave of Alt-A resets is just picking up and is going to continue through 2011.
http://www.bubbleinfo.com/journal/2008/3/24/somber-reminder.html

you could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months.
SD R, somebody on this site mentioned several month ago that his $670K offer was accepted for a new 4S 3K sqft home. Do you think that was a one-off occurrence?

[Sandi Egan]

4S Ranch is going to feel prolonged pressure even as other areas hit bottom and start to recover. It’s mostly new and mostly Alt-A. It is relatively unaffected by current subprime turmoil, but the wave of Alt-A resets is just picking up and is going to continue through 2011.
http://www.bubbleinfo.com/journal/2008/3/24/somber-reminder.html

you could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months.
SD R, somebody on this site mentioned several month ago that his $670K offer was accepted for a new 4S 3K sqft home. Do you think that was a one-off occurrence?

[Sandi Egan]

4S Ranch is going to feel prolonged pressure even as other areas hit bottom and start to recover. It’s mostly new and mostly Alt-A. It is relatively unaffected by current subprime turmoil, but the wave of Alt-A resets is just picking up and is going to continue through 2011.
http://www.bubbleinfo.com/journal/2008/3/24/somber-reminder.html

you could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months.
SD R, somebody on this site mentioned several month ago that his $670K offer was accepted for a new 4S 3K sqft home. Do you think that was a one-off occurrence?

[Sandi Egan]

4S Ranch is going to feel prolonged pressure even as other areas hit bottom and start to recover. It’s mostly new and mostly Alt-A. It is relatively unaffected by current subprime turmoil, but the wave of Alt-A resets is just picking up and is going to continue through 2011.
http://www.bubbleinfo.com/journal/2008/3/24/somber-reminder.html

you could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months.
SD R, somebody on this site mentioned several month ago that his $670K offer was accepted for a new 4S 3K sqft home. Do you think that was a one-off occurrence?

[SD Realtor]

Hard to say where it will get to in the short run. Right now the cheapest resale over 3k sf is the Ralphs Ranch listing at 702k and that is new construction. You could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months. Maybe even a distress sale here or there but it will get snapped up quick. If we get a real fast interest rate hike or severe unemployment that would help. If the feds bailout some of those distressed homeowners and let them refinance to a lower nut then that will not help. People don’t want to hear that though.

In the long run I think it will come down.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Hard to say where it will get to in the short run. Right now the cheapest resale over 3k sf is the Ralphs Ranch listing at 702k and that is new construction. You could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months. Maybe even a distress sale here or there but it will get snapped up quick. If we get a real fast interest rate hike or severe unemployment that would help. If the feds bailout some of those distressed homeowners and let them refinance to a lower nut then that will not help. People don’t want to hear that though.

In the long run I think it will come down.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Hard to say where it will get to in the short run. Right now the cheapest resale over 3k sf is the Ralphs Ranch listing at 702k and that is new construction. You could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months. Maybe even a distress sale here or there but it will get snapped up quick. If we get a real fast interest rate hike or severe unemployment that would help. If the feds bailout some of those distressed homeowners and let them refinance to a lower nut then that will not help. People don’t want to hear that though.

In the long run I think it will come down.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Hard to say where it will get to in the short run. Right now the cheapest resale over 3k sf is the Ralphs Ranch listing at 702k and that is new construction. You could see that 600-650k range in another 18-24 months. Maybe even a distress sale here or there but it will get snapped up quick. If we get a real fast interest rate hike or severe unemployment that would help. If the feds bailout some of those distressed homeowners and let them refinance to a lower nut then that will not help. People don’t want to hear that though.

In the long run I think it will come down.

SD Realtor

[4spotentialbuyer]

500-520K for 3000sq ft in 4S? While I would love for the price to go back to 2002-2003, you would also have to account for normal appreciation. We thought those prices were good (702 for Silhouette and Pienza reduced some homes by 80K to 704K) and we almost bought…however we are trying to hold out. What do our realtors on this site think the price will stablize to for a 3000 sq ft home? e thought 600-650 would be a good price.

[4spotentialbuyer]

500-520K for 3000sq ft in 4S? While I would love for the price to go back to 2002-2003, you would also have to account for normal appreciation. We thought those prices were good (702 for Silhouette and Pienza reduced some homes by 80K to 704K) and we almost bought…however we are trying to hold out. What do our realtors on this site think the price will stablize to for a 3000 sq ft home? e thought 600-650 would be a good price.

[4spotentialbuyer]

500-520K for 3000sq ft in 4S? While I would love for the price to go back to 2002-2003, you would also have to account for normal appreciation. We thought those prices were good (702 for Silhouette and Pienza reduced some homes by 80K to 704K) and we almost bought…however we are trying to hold out. What do our realtors on this site think the price will stablize to for a 3000 sq ft home? e thought 600-650 would be a good price.

[4spotentialbuyer]

500-520K for 3000sq ft in 4S? While I would love for the price to go back to 2002-2003, you would also have to account for normal appreciation. We thought those prices were good (702 for Silhouette and Pienza reduced some homes by 80K to 704K) and we almost bought…however we are trying to hold out. What do our realtors on this site think the price will stablize to for a 3000 sq ft home? e thought 600-650 would be a good price.

[5yearwaiter]

Still these are way high prices. If you look into 4S Ranch in the 2002-2003 the prices for this kind of homes are around 500K to 520K for 3000 sft homes.

There is clear estimation of slide is going to be 38% for San Diego(bit time to wait) then these new homes also adjust to the price that were set around 2002 year. There is no use to buy in a rush and first avoid the great recession and it tells who stand and who ran and who will still buy – a great time to wait

5yearswaiter

[5yearwaiter]

Still these are way high prices. If you look into 4S Ranch in the 2002-2003 the prices for this kind of homes are around 500K to 520K for 3000 sft homes.

There is clear estimation of slide is going to be 38% for San Diego(bit time to wait) then these new homes also adjust to the price that were set around 2002 year. There is no use to buy in a rush and first avoid the great recession and it tells who stand and who ran and who will still buy – a great time to wait

5yearswaiter

[5yearwaiter]

Still these are way high prices. If you look into 4S Ranch in the 2002-2003 the prices for this kind of homes are around 500K to 520K for 3000 sft homes.

There is clear estimation of slide is going to be 38% for San Diego(bit time to wait) then these new homes also adjust to the price that were set around 2002 year. There is no use to buy in a rush and first avoid the great recession and it tells who stand and who ran and who will still buy – a great time to wait

5yearswaiter

[5yearwaiter]

Still these are way high prices. If you look into 4S Ranch in the 2002-2003 the prices for this kind of homes are around 500K to 520K for 3000 sft homes.

There is clear estimation of slide is going to be 38% for San Diego(bit time to wait) then these new homes also adjust to the price that were set around 2002 year. There is no use to buy in a rush and first avoid the great recession and it tells who stand and who ran and who will still buy – a great time to wait

5yearswaiter

[robyns_song]

For those of you intersted, we stopped by Silhouette today and picked up their price list:

Explorer (residence one) 2559-2691 sq ft: $661,990
Surfer (residence two) 3070-3213: $702,990
Dreamer (residence three) 3185-3356 sq ft: $725,990 (anticipated release amount–plan 3 is not available right now)

The sales lady stated that there were 6 homes available since the October release and they expect this phase to be completed soon. There are a total of 9 phases–they are currently on phase 5. The sales lady said the “business plan” was to complete all nine phases by next June…without a price reduction (?). We’ll see what happens…

[robyns_song]

For those of you intersted, we stopped by Silhouette today and picked up their price list:

Explorer (residence one) 2559-2691 sq ft: $661,990
Surfer (residence two) 3070-3213: $702,990
Dreamer (residence three) 3185-3356 sq ft: $725,990 (anticipated release amount–plan 3 is not available right now)

The sales lady stated that there were 6 homes available since the October release and they expect this phase to be completed soon. There are a total of 9 phases–they are currently on phase 5. The sales lady said the “business plan” was to complete all nine phases by next June…without a price reduction (?). We’ll see what happens…

[robyns_song]

For those of you intersted, we stopped by Silhouette today and picked up their price list:

Explorer (residence one) 2559-2691 sq ft: $661,990
Surfer (residence two) 3070-3213: $702,990
Dreamer (residence three) 3185-3356 sq ft: $725,990 (anticipated release amount–plan 3 is not available right now)

The sales lady stated that there were 6 homes available since the October release and they expect this phase to be completed soon. There are a total of 9 phases–they are currently on phase 5. The sales lady said the “business plan” was to complete all nine phases by next June…without a price reduction (?). We’ll see what happens…

[robyns_song]

For those of you intersted, we stopped by Silhouette today and picked up their price list:

Explorer (residence one) 2559-2691 sq ft: $661,990
Surfer (residence two) 3070-3213: $702,990
Dreamer (residence three) 3185-3356 sq ft: $725,990 (anticipated release amount–plan 3 is not available right now)

The sales lady stated that there were 6 homes available since the October release and they expect this phase to be completed soon. There are a total of 9 phases–they are currently on phase 5. The sales lady said the “business plan” was to complete all nine phases by next June…without a price reduction (?). We’ll see what happens…

[SDEngineer]

Well, the FHA does require full-doc of income and reasonable debt ratios (I believe they’re at 29/41 right now), so it’s hard to compare them to the liar loans that most were using to buy beyond their means. While there’s no set income limit to use a FHA loan, to get the $697500 loan, the buyers would have to be able to document around 230K a year in earnings, without excessive debt on top of that.

I think the value increase was a bad idea on the FHA’s part (since their intended purpose was to help first-time buyers, hence the low down requirements), mostly because, even in San Diego, at least now (though maybe not in 2005/2006) you can get a starter house for their max previous (about 363K). I doubt many people would consider a 700K house a “starter” house.

[SDEngineer]

Well, the FHA does require full-doc of income and reasonable debt ratios (I believe they’re at 29/41 right now), so it’s hard to compare them to the liar loans that most were using to buy beyond their means. While there’s no set income limit to use a FHA loan, to get the $697500 loan, the buyers would have to be able to document around 230K a year in earnings, without excessive debt on top of that.

I think the value increase was a bad idea on the FHA’s part (since their intended purpose was to help first-time buyers, hence the low down requirements), mostly because, even in San Diego, at least now (though maybe not in 2005/2006) you can get a starter house for their max previous (about 363K). I doubt many people would consider a 700K house a “starter” house.

[SDEngineer]

Well, the FHA does require full-doc of income and reasonable debt ratios (I believe they’re at 29/41 right now), so it’s hard to compare them to the liar loans that most were using to buy beyond their means. While there’s no set income limit to use a FHA loan, to get the $697500 loan, the buyers would have to be able to document around 230K a year in earnings, without excessive debt on top of that.

I think the value increase was a bad idea on the FHA’s part (since their intended purpose was to help first-time buyers, hence the low down requirements), mostly because, even in San Diego, at least now (though maybe not in 2005/2006) you can get a starter house for their max previous (about 363K). I doubt many people would consider a 700K house a “starter” house.

[SDEngineer]

Well, the FHA does require full-doc of income and reasonable debt ratios (I believe they’re at 29/41 right now), so it’s hard to compare them to the liar loans that most were using to buy beyond their means. While there’s no set income limit to use a FHA loan, to get the $697500 loan, the buyers would have to be able to document around 230K a year in earnings, without excessive debt on top of that.

I think the value increase was a bad idea on the FHA’s part (since their intended purpose was to help first-time buyers, hence the low down requirements), mostly because, even in San Diego, at least now (though maybe not in 2005/2006) you can get a starter house for their max previous (about 363K). I doubt many people would consider a 700K house a “starter” house.

[civrealtor]

Is Chanteclair becoming so desperate? I recently received a letter from them about a new special FHA loan program which contains the following points:
1. New load limit of $697,500
2. No Minimum FICO score
3. No set income limits
4. Down payment assistance program.

Doesn’t this look familiar to you guys? Isn’t this country having enough problem with previous reckless loan practices? What is this FHA loan program trying to do? Creating more bad loans? I am really confused here. Anyone can explain a little bit here for me?

[civrealtor]

Is Chanteclair becoming so desperate? I recently received a letter from them about a new special FHA loan program which contains the following points:
1. New load limit of $697,500
2. No Minimum FICO score
3. No set income limits
4. Down payment assistance program.

Doesn’t this look familiar to you guys? Isn’t this country having enough problem with previous reckless loan practices? What is this FHA loan program trying to do? Creating more bad loans? I am really confused here. Anyone can explain a little bit here for me?

[civrealtor]

Is Chanteclair becoming so desperate? I recently received a letter from them about a new special FHA loan program which contains the following points:
1. New load limit of $697,500
2. No Minimum FICO score
3. No set income limits
4. Down payment assistance program.

Doesn’t this look familiar to you guys? Isn’t this country having enough problem with previous reckless loan practices? What is this FHA loan program trying to do? Creating more bad loans? I am really confused here. Anyone can explain a little bit here for me?

[civrealtor]

Is Chanteclair becoming so desperate? I recently received a letter from them about a new special FHA loan program which contains the following points:
1. New load limit of $697,500
2. No Minimum FICO score
3. No set income limits
4. Down payment assistance program.

Doesn’t this look familiar to you guys? Isn’t this country having enough problem with previous reckless loan practices? What is this FHA loan program trying to do? Creating more bad loans? I am really confused here. Anyone can explain a little bit here for me?

[Author]

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