I’m trying to do some I’m trying to do some budgeting.. But some questions
1)How much do you folks plan on spending for your kid’s ungrad education?
2) Are you also planning on grad related education (for instance Med School/etc)? Or are you adopting a “you’re on your own approach for higher education”?
Estimates: per kid, in today’s dollars preferably, assuming a reasonable level of inflation (say 4%, rather than the dollar ending up like toilet paper)
Definition of spending: Perhaps I should have worded it “how much are you planning on spending on your kids education” on the original poll title instead of saving….For example, if you plan on mortgaging your home or something like than.
Some of these costs are just getting frickin ridiculous imho.
might expand your consciousness. she has a bunch of successful girls.
bottom line, she had her girls get ged’s early, study in community colleges, get great travel life experiences, and continue with degrees later with costs in mind.
saving for an education may be doing your kid a big disservice. her book persuaded me, i read it cover to cover in one sitting.
Oni Koroshi
November 1, 2010 @
5:04 PM
I’m only in my late 20’s but I’m only in my late 20’s but the saving for your kid’s college education always seemed a bit cliche to me. I plan to have my kids pay for their own education just as I did.
My sister moved away for college so my parents helped her with rent but she paid for her own tuition.
My older brother and I lived at home during our undergrad years so we didn’t have to worry about rent but we still paid our own tuition.
We had to apply for scholarships, grants, and take some loans but we managed while working part time jobs and internships.
The only reason I would think you would need to save for your kids’ college tuition is if you plan on sending them to an ivy league school with outrageous costs.
SK in CV
November 1, 2010 @
6:32 PM
I’m not saving another penny. I’m not saving another penny.
I just got finished paying for two college educations. I never set up separate accounts or anything, but I did have a target to have as part of my overall savings to pay for their college. By the time they got to high school, that number seemed to double every year. Fortunately never had to actually dip into savings, but I gotta tell you, $40,000 a year in after tax cash is a whole lotta money. Probably close to $150,000 total between the two of them. And they both went to UC’s, mostly before the tuition went up almost 40%. Still probably about the cheapest tuition out there. Some private schools are quoting over $50,000 a year now.
They’re both headed to grad school. They can figure out how to pay for that themselves. I’ll continue to pay for their car and medical insurance, but hopefully that’s about it. Oh, and their cell phones. And probably travel home to visit. Who the hell am I kidding. Probably still cost me $10,000 a year each. I’ll retire when i’m 90. About the same time they finish paying off their student loans so they can support me.
UCGal
November 1, 2010 @
7:13 PM
I took the budget info on the I took the budget info on the UCSD website – then took their costs of housing/etc and lowered it.
I came up with $25k/year/kid.
So my goal is $100k/kid.
If they go to private school I hope they get financial aid – because that’s all I’m planning for. And I’m old and will hopefully be retired about the time they go to college. Hubster will definitely be retired.
I lowered the housing costs from the UC estimates because I plan to offer the same deal I got – tuition/books at a CAL or UC school, *poverty level* housing support – enough that my kid can share a dive apartment in a questionable neighborhood – but will want to get a job for spending money and will learn that Raman and quesadillas are gourmet delights that can sustain you.
SK in CV
November 1, 2010 @
7:47 PM
UCGal wrote:I took the budget [quote=UCGal]I took the budget info on the UCSD website – then took their costs of housing/etc and lowered it.
I came up with $25k/year/kid.
So my goal is $100k/kid.
[/quote]
Hopefully it’s not too many years off. When my son started at UCSC 6 years ago, their estimate was just over $20K a year, pretty much the same as when my daughter started at UCSD 4 years ago. Neither of them cost that much, a few thousand lower I think. With the increase in tuition, $25K would probably work now. But if there are tuition increases (as I suspect there will be), that might be a little shy if it’s more than a few years off. (And if some of them go private, as the whispers are talking about, who knows how that will change the landscape.)
UCGal
November 2, 2010 @
10:47 AM
SK in CV wrote:UCGal wrote:I [quote=SK in CV][quote=UCGal]I took the budget info on the UCSD website – then took their costs of housing/etc and lowered it.
I came up with $25k/year/kid.
So my goal is $100k/kid.
[/quote]
Hopefully it’s not too many years off. [/quote]
It’s a ways off… I was old when I had the boys… But I’m hoping the market gains will help. If we have another 2008 right before college, their 529’s will be hurting.
Coronita
November 2, 2010 @
1:34 PM
UCGal wrote:SK in CV [quote=UCGal][quote=SK in CV][quote=UCGal]I took the budget info on the UCSD website – then took their costs of housing/etc and lowered it.
I came up with $25k/year/kid.
So my goal is $100k/kid.
[/quote]
Hopefully it’s not too many years off. [/quote]
It’s a ways off… I was old when I had the boys… But I’m hoping the market gains will help. If we have another 2008 right before college, their 529’s will be hurting.[/quote]
With 529 are you with? I’m currently with Nevada’s plan. I didn’t like CA’s plan for some reason. Are you actively managing? I’m a little concerned because I’m just doing the standard 33%/33%/34% total stock/total international/high yield bond funds… I just ended up dumping high yield bonds, but having conflicts on what to do next. Yeah, when it comes to my own accounts, I don’t mind screwing up as much….But not the 529.
UCGal
November 2, 2010 @
1:43 PM
I’m in Nevada (Vanguard) I’m in Nevada (Vanguard) also… because my dad had it there when he passed. He started out with a CA one (fidelity) and hated the performance so he switched.
I will say this about Vanguard – they are a TOTAL PITA to deal with to transfer if the owner of the 529 dies. They lost multiple copies of my dad’s death cert… until I finally sent it certified/signature required. (same happened with the IRA he had there… they kept losing the death cert.) Nice people, but the 529 group doesn’t talk to the brokerage group and required completely separate copies of proof of death.
It’s not an issue if you plan to have the kids use the money before you die. LOL.
Coronita
November 1, 2010 @
7:53 PM
SK in CV wrote:I’m not saving [quote=SK in CV]I’m not saving another penny.
I just got finished paying for two college educations. I never set up separate accounts or anything, but I did have a target to have as part of my overall savings to pay for their college. By the time they got to high school, that number seemed to double every year. Fortunately never had to actually dip into savings, but I gotta tell you, $40,000 a year in after tax cash is a whole lotta money. Probably close to $150,000 total between the two of them. And they both went to UC’s, mostly before the tuition went up almost 40%. Still probably about the cheapest tuition out there. Some private schools are quoting over $50,000 a year now.
They’re both headed to grad school. They can figure out how to pay for that themselves. I’ll continue to pay for their car and medical insurance, but hopefully that’s about it. Oh, and their cell phones. And probably travel home to visit. Who the hell am I kidding. Probably still cost me $10,000 a year each. I’ll retire when i’m 90. About the same time they finish paying off their student loans so they can support me.[/quote]
$40k for 2 per year or $40k each per year for public school? My god.
Assuming you meant $20k for 1 per year (I hope)…… Hmmm $20k + 5% inflation over the next 14 years….Somewhere around $40k/year(+- depending on compound)….
Ok next question
True of false….In part of financial aid consideration, they count not only how much money you (parents) have, but how much equity you have in your home (the expectation is that if you have sufficient equity, they expect you to take out a mortgage)???
ybitz
November 2, 2010 @
1:00 PM
flu wrote:
Ok next [quote=flu]
Ok next question
True of false….In part of financial aid consideration, they count not only how much money you (parents) have, but how much equity you have in your home (the expectation is that if you have sufficient equity, they expect you to take out a mortgage)???[/quote]
FAFSA doesn’t take into account home equity, but CSS Profile” does.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_Family_Contribution
How does FAFSA and CSS verify assets anyway? Do they have access to the balance in your bank accounts? How does CSS Profile determine/verify how much home equity you have? Seems like there’s quite a bit of wiggle room in FAFSA/PROFILE.
bearishgurl
November 2, 2010 @
1:22 PM
ybitz wrote:FAFSA doesn’t [quote=ybitz]FAFSA doesn’t take into account home equity, but CSS Profile” does.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_Family_Contribution
How does FAFSA and CSS verify assets anyway? Do they have access to the balance in your bank accounts? How does CSS Profile determine/verify how much home equity you have? Seems like there’s quite a bit of wiggle room in FAFSA/PROFILE.[/quote]
Parent(s) have to submit copies of their prior-year tax returns each year they apply for aid with the FAFSA (don’t know about CSS). Not sure if they have a way determining the legitimacy of the tax return attached to the FAFSA, i.e. if those returns submitted are identical to the ones filed with the IRS.
Coronita
November 2, 2010 @
1:26 PM
bearishgurl wrote:ybitz [quote=bearishgurl][quote=ybitz]FAFSA doesn’t take into account home equity, but CSS Profile” does.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_Family_Contribution
How does FAFSA and CSS verify assets anyway? Do they have access to the balance in your bank accounts? How does CSS Profile determine/verify how much home equity you have? Seems like there’s quite a bit of wiggle room in FAFSA/PROFILE.[/quote]
Parent(s) have to submit copies of their prior-year tax returns each year they apply for aid with the FAFSA (don’t know about CSS). Not sure if they have a way determining the legitimacy of the tax return attached to the FAFSA, i.e. if those returns submitted are identical to the ones filed with the IRS.[/quote]
I’ve been reading that moving forward, parent’s home equity WILL be taken into consideration. Nice huh?
So if I go upside down, does that mean I get credit back?
(former)FormerSanDiegan
November 2, 2010 @
2:29 PM
flu wrote:
I’ve been reading [quote=flu]
I’ve been reading that moving forward, parent’s home equity WILL be taken into consideration. Nice huh?
[/quote]
That would suck.
[quote=flu]
So if I go upside down, does that mean I get credit back?
[/quote]
What is strange is that assets, but not debt, are considered. Somehow we are expected to use a percentage of our gross assets towards education with no consideraiton of our net assets.
So, if you own a 500K house free and clear and have 40K in the bank, you essentially have zero assets for consideration. But, if you had a 500K house, with a 400K loan and $440K in assets, you would be expected to commit something in the range of 20-30K towards school costs. The FASFA system of assessing assets does not meet even a standard that I would expect from a high school economics class.
I’ve been reading that moving forward, parent’s home equity WILL be taken into consideration. Nice huh?
[/quote]
That would suck.
[quote=flu]
So if I go upside down, does that mean I get credit back?
[/quote]
What is strange is that assets, but not debt, are considered. Somehow we are expected to use a percentage of our gross assets towards education with no consideraiton of our net assets.
So, if you own a 500K house free and clear and have 40K in the bank, you essentially have zero assets for consideration. But, if you had a 500K house, with a 400K loan and $440K in assets, you would be expected to commit something in the range of 20-30K towards school costs. The FASFA system of assessing assets does not meet even a standard that I would expect from a high school economics class.[/quote]
Hmmm. So then the solution is a few years before the kids enter college, pay off your mortgage with your assets. Then once they enter college, do a cash out refinance out of your home to replenish your assets.
bearishgurl
November 2, 2010 @
12:13 PM
Oni Koroshi wrote: . . . We [quote=Oni Koroshi] . . . We had to apply for scholarships, grants, and take some loans but we managed while working part time jobs and internships.
The only reason I would think you would need to save for your kids’ college tuition is if you plan on sending them to an ivy league school with outrageous costs.[/quote]
Oni, Neither I or my kid’s dad could put in a FAFSA and expect ANY kind of aid so neither of us have ever tried. He makes way too much $$ and both of us have assets that we would be expected to tap first. Thus, grants and need-based scholarships are OUT for us.
The “Ivies” are overrated, IMHO. They are probably a good environment conducive to learning but are “over-the-top” expensive, unless the student is granted full scholarships year after year. A student has no guarantee of a higher salary after graduation from an ivy league school than they do after graduation from a public institution.
(former)FormerSanDiegan
November 2, 2010 @
1:07 PM
Here is the optimal strategy Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.
Coronita
November 2, 2010 @
1:30 PM
FormerSanDiegan wrote:Here is [quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
Why not just open an offshore account and shovel stuff there? Just kidding…..
(former)FormerSanDiegan
November 2, 2010 @
2:08 PM
flu wrote:FormerSanDiegan [quote=flu][quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
Why not just open an offshore account and shovel stuff there? Just kidding…..[/quote]
I’m not into evasion methods that might require forgery or tax evasion, but definitely want to consider all legal ways to avoid taxes or maximize financial aid.
an
November 2, 2010 @
3:54 PM
flu wrote:FormerSanDiegan [quote=flu][quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
Why not just open an offshore account and shovel stuff there? Just kidding…..[/quote]
You know you’re not kidding 🙂
Coronita
November 2, 2010 @
4:00 PM
AN wrote:flu [quote=AN][quote=flu][quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
Why not just open an offshore account and shovel stuff there? Just kidding…..[/quote]
You know you’re not kidding :-)[/quote]
I’m only kidding because I know it’s not legal and it’s easy to get caught. But that gives me another idea. Just convert everything into gold bullion… I’m kidding (again) 🙂
briansd1
November 2, 2010 @
2:18 PM
FormerSanDiegan wrote:Here is [quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
What’s the difference between that and a welfare queen who pops out children and refuses to work? Nothing illegal about that either.
So much for financial responsibility and carrying your weight.
bearishgurl
November 2, 2010 @
2:22 PM
walterwhite wrote: . . . Also [quote=walterwhite] . . . Also part of the reason I am buyingvthis giant fancy mansion is the hope that my kids will stick around for a fewdxtra years in community college. . . [/quote]
[quote=FormerSanDiegan] . . . After a couple years of living as bums go back to work. . . . [/quote]
FSD, better make that 4-5 years (or however long it takes for your kid to get thru college) of living as bums . . . just in case you have to submit with your annual FAFSAs an authorization for the FAFSA people to order your Federal tax return numbers . . . lol!
After the four years are up, you might be OLD and/or in a higher health insurance category. (We don’t yet know how the HCRA will “play itself out” with employers.) Then employers won’t want you. Not trying rain on anyone’s parade here . . . just trying to be realistic.
I know 100% “disabled vets” whose kids all got 100% of their college tuition/fees paid plus at least $830 mo. for books and living expense (by the VA’s “Chapter 30 program”) To look at and observe some of these guys, one has to wonder how they are actually “100% disabled.”
Life’s often not fair. It seems the folks who have any assets at all are ineligible for most “benefits.”
As a consolation, we can all just “sell-out” and retire to Mt. Shasta to the “simple life,” forming a wayward Pigg commune. This will, of course, be AFTER our kids have graduated from college and left the nest and we are all broke or semi-broke. Then we can set up our telescopes and invite scaredy up to our quarterly stargazing events (w/local wine tasting, of course) to act as our “outhouse consultant” and lecture and give us Power-Point presentations on the proper methods of “successful humanuring” . . . lol! He and his spouse won’t be retiring under the stars with us because they will be living the “green dream” down in the (by then “waterless”) RIV Co desert with their children, ages 35 and 38 :=]
(former)FormerSanDiegan
November 2, 2010 @
2:41 PM
bearishgurl [quote=bearishgurl]
[quote=FormerSanDiegan] . . . After a couple years of living as bums go back to work. . . . [/quote]
FSD, better make that 4-5 years (or however long it takes for your kid to get thru college) of living as bums . . . just in case you have to submit with your annual FAFSAs an authorization for the FAFSA people to order your Federal tax return numbers . . . lol!
After the four years are up, you might be OLD and/or in a higher health insurance category. (We don’t yet know how the HCRA will “play itself out” with employers.) Then employers won’t want you. Not trying rain on anyone’s parade here . . . just trying to be realistic.
[/quote]
I know, I know… It’s mostly a pipe dream. I was just looking for a couple of free years of roaming around the time I turn 50. Maybe we should go back to school, too, and get financial aid for ourselves. I have fond memories of the decade I spent in college. Or start a B&B where we will be guaranteed very low net incomes. Or become a teacher at a parochial school and guarantee an even lower income.
[quote=FormerSanDiegan] . . . After a couple years of living as bums go back to work. . . . [/quote]
FSD, better make that 4-5 years (or however long it takes for your kid to get thru college) of living as bums . . . just in case you have to submit with your annual FAFSAs an authorization for the FAFSA people to order your Federal tax return numbers . . . lol!
After the four years are up, you might be OLD and/or in a higher health insurance category. (We don’t yet know how the HCRA will “play itself out” with employers.) Then employers won’t want you. Not trying rain on anyone’s parade here . . . just trying to be realistic.
[/quote]
I know, I know… It’s mostly a pipe dream. I was just looking for a couple of free years of roaming around the time I turn 50. Maybe we should go back to school, too, and get financial aid for ourselves. I have fond memories of the decade I spent in college. Or start a B&B where we will be guaranteed very low net incomes. Or become a teacher at a parochial school and guarantee an even lower income.[/quote]
You know, 529 beneficiaries are transferable 🙂
Oni Koroshi
November 9, 2010 @
8:53 AM
bearishgurl wrote:
Oni, [quote=bearishgurl]
Oni, Neither I or my kid’s dad could put in a FAFSA and expect ANY kind of aid so neither of us have ever tried. He makes way too much $$ and both of us have assets that we would be expected to tap first. Thus, grants and need-based scholarships are OUT for us.
The “Ivies” are overrated, IMHO. They are probably a good environment conducive to learning but are “over-the-top” expensive, unless the student is granted full scholarships year after year. A student has no guarantee of a higher salary after graduation from an ivy league school than they do after graduation from a public institution.[/quote]
You can still file a FAFSA to get subsidized loans and get some unsubsidized loans if that couldn’t cover everything. I didn’t get very much from free grants but I was able to get some merit based scholarship money on top of my loans. I finished my grad school in ’07 and I know the UC tuition has been steadily going up (it went up almost every year during my undergrad and grad years) but I think it’s still possible for someone to pay their own way through the UC system. With a little help from their parents it should be very manageable without being burdened with a mountain of debt after graduation.
bearishgurl
November 9, 2010 @
10:42 AM
Oni Koroshi wrote:You can [quote=Oni Koroshi]You can still file a FAFSA to get subsidized loans and get some unsubsidized loans if that couldn’t cover everything. I didn’t get very much from free grants but I was able to get some merit based scholarship money on top of my loans. I finished my grad school in ’07 and I know the UC tuition has been steadily going up (it went up almost every year during my undergrad and grad years) but I think it’s still possible for someone to pay their own way through the UC system. With a little help from their parents it should be very manageable without being burdened with a mountain of debt after graduation.[/quote]
Oni, if my kid still in HS qualifies for any “merit-based scholarships,” then GREAT! Even a $1K – $4K scholarship will help. But I don’t want ANY of them to take out loans. I don’t want them “putting their adult lives on hold” because of burdensome student loans. I’ve seen it throughout my life with lawyers. It’s not unusual for them to be 39 and STILL paying $700 – $1500 mo. student-loan payments. Of course, law school is one of the most expensive grad schools to attend.
My kid(s) went to CSU. My kid about to graduate from SFSU has a good chance of landing the very same position (about $68K to start) that they are currently interning as. They will know in January. And they may be ready to possibly get married in the coming year(s) and buy a house, which I will help them with. I want them to be able to get a (probable fixer) house in San Mateo County, SV, SJ or Hayward while the getting is good. My kids have relatives in SJ, Castro Valley and Fremont (on dad’s side). The SO’s parents currently live 5-6 miles away from them (not far from that big gas explosion a couple mos back . . . lol).
Throughout my life, I’ve seen a LOT of co-workers consolidate and re-consolidate in attempt to pay off voluminous student loans AFTER they’ve had children and now need a house that they can’t qualify for because of their student-loan debt. Many of their degrees ended up to be worthless for them. In addition, many attorneys have to make partner and get a cut of the action to finally retire their HUGE student loans. All this takes so much time that they’re still working 65+ hr weeks and single at the age of 45-50. For a woman, it’s now too late for them to have a family. For the men, they’re all out there at 48-55 years old looking for a 28-35 yo spouse to (quickly) have the family with them that they never did. Just pathetic. If they planned their lives with a little more forethought, they would be looking forward to a carefree retirement now instead of diapers. We only get one chance to go thru every stage of our lives. It’s very difficult to recover from mortgaging yourself into oblivion when you’re just leaving the starting blocks of life.
Grad school is WAY overrated (AND VERY expensive). There are too many “professionals” of every persuasion in this state virtually “bumping into each other” for the same scarce job openings. Malpractice insurance is too high to go out on your own when you’re just starting out. Candidates with advanced degrees are “overqualified” for garden-variety business positions as organizations DO NOT want to pay the money or get them in only to have them leave when something comes up in their field.
I’m old now but I can safely say that none of us came back to live with our parents after HS. I don’t have any “boomerang kids” and I don’t want any. I don’t mind helping them a little bit to launch and learn to manage their money properly. When you’re 22-26 with a college degree, it’s time to be an adult now.
Call it tough love, if you will, but there won’t be any FAFSA submissions for us and NO LOANS that I’m a part of, period. It a BIG TRAP!
bearishgurl
November 9, 2010 @
10:44 AM
Oni, would you mind if I Oni, would you mind if I asked . . . were you able to find an appropriate career position which utilizes your graduate degree and credentials? And do you currently reside and work in CA??
Coronita
November 1, 2010 @
7:56 PM
walterwhite wrote:check out [quote=walterwhite]check out http://www.mayafrost.com before you start saving money.
might expand your consciousness. she has a bunch of successful girls.
bottom line, she had her girls get ged’s early, study in community colleges, get great travel life experiences, and continue with degrees later with costs in mind.
saving for an education may be doing your kid a big disservice. her book persuaded me, i read it cover to cover in one sitting.[/quote]
two sides to the coin. I love hearing about the success stories, but I’d like hearing about the other side they never tell you…The failures too…If her track record is more than 50%, ok maybe I think that’s a plan…But, like i said, no one likes talking about the failures (just like everyone is a stock picker expert,and the ones that suck wind are “long term capital losses”)
CAwireman
November 1, 2010 @
8:12 PM
Hey FLU
Our son is going to Hey FLU
Our son is going to community college for a few years and is still living at home. Tuition was dirt cheap by any other standard I can see. The books were more expensive than the tuition. The greater costs are in him living at home, paying for his medical insurance, food, etc.
He’ll move on to SDSU (hopefully) in a few years, and the costs will go up quite a bit. We expect and require him to get a job soon! The boy must learn what it means to earn and live within his means while he’s young.
scaredyclassic
November 1, 2010 @
8:49 PM
Spending that much money on a Spending that much money on a b. A. Guarantees nothing. People want the safe well trodden path. ESP for their kids. Bit fortune favors the bold! Up to a point.
Coronita
November 1, 2010 @
9:49 PM
walterwhite wrote:Spending [quote=walterwhite]Spending that much money on a b. A. Guarantees nothing. People want the safe well trodden path. ESP for their kids. Bit fortune favors the bold! Up to a point.[/quote]
Agreed, but doing nothing doesn’t seem to be the optimum position to take either. Come on, do you think you would be an attorney with no degree, or your wifey be an M.D. without a degree either? I sure as hell wouldn’t want someone who was a mayafrost to operate on me.
Don’t know. Don’t have the answer. Sigh, the trust fund baby option is looking more and more tasty these days…Sell my tech work and do a small owner byob like dry cleaning. That’s the problem with tech.. It’s not something simple that one can just pass on.
I use to think trust fund kiddies were terrible. But now that I see just about the rest of the nation being nanny state recipients, people not paying mortgages, pensions up the ying yang, banksters getting those fat bonii, I can’t really tell the difference anymore…At least I would have some discretion as to where it goes (wasted possibly by my own blood, versus some complete stranger, or some pension board)….Sigh…Everyone man/woman for themselves, I guess….
scaredyclassic
November 2, 2010 @
7:41 AM
The rules in California are The rules in California are you only need an a.a. Degree to attend an unacceedited law school. So yeah I think it’s a decent option. I’d rather see my kid do that with zero debt than a fancy degree with 100k in debt. As for med school you’ll do better getting straight a grades at the local comm coll than b grades at zn ivy league school. Law medicine Is a numbers game for grad school admission high gpa high LSAT/mcat all the schools want high numbers … So no it’s not foreclosing options in my not humble opinion (imnho)
Also part of the reason I am buyingvthis giant fancy mansion is the hope that my kids will stick around for a fewdxtra years in community college.
Yeah I know might not happen. But I like having them around. A lot. If they want to go see the world or independent have adventures there’s plenty if options other than ship out to college at 18. One of my favorite books is called Dishwasher and it’s about a kid who sets off into the world with the goal if washing dishes professionally in every state. It’s a total hoot.
Don’t live in fear! The days of credentialusy success are nearing the end. If much rather see my boys get an ase mechanics cert that a ba in anthropology at age 21 … But on the other hand would you take career advice from a guy who dreams if composting his own turds?
bearishgurl
November 2, 2010 @
1:10 PM
walterwhite wrote:The rules [quote=walterwhite]The rules in California are you only need an a.a. Degree to attend an unacceedited law school. So yeah I think it’s a decent option. I’d rather see my kid do that with zero debt than a fancy degree with 100k in debt . . . [/quote]
scaredy, funny you should mention this. Many years ago, I looked into enrolling in “Western Sierra Law School” (that had just opened in La Mesa). Not sure if its accredited or even if it is still open, lol! It was about $17K for the JD (3 or 4 yr program) at the time (cheap for law school) and an applicant to it only needed to have a decent LSAT score, a HS Diploma and a couple of recommendations from practicing attorneys. I could have gotten in but realized even back then that I would be trying to get hired at => age 50 after passing the bar (which I KNEW I could pass on the first try) so this wild “endeavor” would just prove to be futile (and increase my debt-load).
And who would hire a graduate of “Western Sierra Law School” anyway??
Seriously, scaredy, I could argue my own lengthy motion (AND respond to the opp) in court with my hands behind my back TODAY (that I drafted with my own brain and hands) but WHO CARES! NO FIRM wants to hire “old people.” I “missed my calling” 25-30 years ago and now know this and duly accept my “station in life” :=]
IMHO, a lot of these parents sweating about grades and college admissions today may find that they have a kid who drops out of college at 19-20 to go build stock cars and hang out at speedways (as a mechanic) watching them race and making adjustments/repairs along the way :=) This kid is now happy (and independent) so all his parents’ “sweating” was for nothing.
Just take a look at Adam Lambert, a 2000 graduate of MCHS (in PQ)! He never wanted to go to college so didn’t waste his parents’ $$ and is one of the best tenors that EVER LIVED, rivaling and EXCEEDING the talent of all the GREATS from back in “my time,” and there were MANY . . . lol!!
Educational level cannot rival aptitude and in-the-trenches experience. Many employers don’t see it this way, though. It seems they want “young” and “a piece of paper,” so I HAVE STEERED my kids towards college and will continue to do so.
CardiffBaseball
November 1, 2010 @
9:02 PM
Nothing saved one in 10th, Nothing saved one in 10th, one in 8th. Both with decent grades (enough to qualify for Bright Futures in FLA) and both appear to be on track to play college baseball somewhere if they choose to pursue it (kind of fun but kind of a grind and a pain).
Beyond that I am not sure. I was too burnt out and only recruited d3 and decided I was done with sports. Wife was athlete at D1 school and is the bulldog.
Beyond that we are dropping all honors/AP classes next year. Don’t see the extra hours spent doing busy-work projects as being worth it (only because they are athletes). My older son (varsity football player for now) in two honors and one AP class and is wiped out and not getting A’s in any of the 3. He just isn’t that bright and at some point you can’t work hard enough to overcome being strapped mentally if you aren’t gifted for that path. Plus wife and I are dumb-jocks and see it as taking away time from training.
So my answer is about as anti-typical as you can get in a world where everyone’s kid is pushed to take as many of these classes as they can. My 8th grader is a straight-A student already taking HS spanish and algebra (this is nothing exceptional, just saying), and he too will opt out unless he specifically wants to be in one of those classes.
Why push the kids as if they are going to Harvard when we don’t have the cash. At their old school so many kids were expected to get into Ivy or Stanford or UC schools, and the kids bore a lot of pressure to keep that up. Don’t get me wrong many are capable, but the ones are not capable really bear the brunt from ma and pa… That’s when they learn to light the blunt…
no_such_reality
November 2, 2010 @
8:59 AM
The Government – Educational The Government – Educational complex needs to be put out of it’s misery. The education system has become a industry designed to maximize the revenue from parents and alumni.
It is not designed to make pragmatic choices about education or provide relevant skills. It is about school for school sake. It starts with the push for everybody to go on the college.
NotCranky
November 2, 2010 @
10:42 AM
My wife and I are not poster
My wife and I are not poster children for planning this kind of stuff.
I think the costs of any college will be divided from 4 sources. Grandparents (out of net worth,income,passive income), parents(investments,passive income, active employment income) our kids(work, non-debt aid of some kind).
Why do piggs almost never mention family assistance? I would think it to be pretty common, given the higher ranges of the middle class that most of you come from. In our case, I wouldn’t even be shocked if under some circumstances, an aunt/uncle, or even family friends offered to help.
Coronita
November 2, 2010 @
11:30 AM
Russell wrote:
Why do piggs [quote=Russell]
Why do piggs almost never mention family assistance? I would think it to be pretty common, given the higher ranges of the middle class that most of you come from. In our case, I wouldn’t even be shocked if under some circumstances, an aunt/uncle, or even family friends offered to help.[/quote]
Mine offered, but I try not to count on it. Never know if they need it for their own expenses like medical.
UCGal
November 2, 2010 @
11:56 AM
Russell wrote:
Why do piggs [quote=Russell]
Why do piggs almost never mention family assistance? I would think it to be pretty common, given the higher ranges of the middle class that most of you come from. In our case, I wouldn’t even be shocked if under some circumstances, an aunt/uncle, or even family friends offered to help.[/quote]
I was very fortunate – my dad started the boys’ 529’s when they were born… I’ve been adding funds to the accounts since he passed. Since my parents are dead and my one aunt is pretty poor – I don’t see any money coming from that area. Hubbie’s parents don’t have the resources and besides – my kids are grandchildren #11-12… any funds that would have been available would be long gone. (Anyone of my hubbies family that is planning on inheriting big from my in-laws is smoking crack.)
Not everyone has rich relatives waiting to help out.
I want to be able to offer my kids a debt free education WITH STRINGS ATTACHED. Public schools, poverty level support requiring they work part time and summers, no spring breaks in Cancun – and the major has to be one you can get a job in… so most liberal arts majors are out if they don’t agree to the corresponding teaching credential.
Right now we budget for college savings and are still retiring our debt and saving for retirement… so why not save for the college.
UCGal
November 2, 2010 @
10:46 AM
The CC is definitely a good The CC is definitely a good plan. I did 2 years at City College before transferring to SDSU. Especially if your kid does not know what they want to major in… have then go jr college while they “try out” majors… much cheaper.
bearishgurl
November 2, 2010 @
11:52 AM
UCGal wrote:The CC is [quote=UCGal]The CC is definitely a good plan. I did 2 years at City College before transferring to SDSU. Especially if your kid does not know what they want to major in… have then go jr college while they “try out” majors… much cheaper.[/quote]
UCGal, I, too, went to City College for some GE and business courses which have served me well – almost two years but no major.
My youngest is now stating they want to do CC (will be the first one that didn’t want to fly the coop to Univ after HS). It’s mostly because they don’t want to leave their friends and “home turf” of SWC. I am of the mind that many families who previously sent kids straight to Univ after HS and “paid” for it can no longer “afford” to do so (ability to HELOC dried up).
Also, my youngest has been told by their elder sibling(s) how hard it is to try to get the needed GE’s at a Univ with all the budget cuts and how expensive their portion of rent/utils are.
This is fine by me and I will pay the fees and we will attempt to obtain used books. Dad will pay for cell phone and health insurance.
Between their dad and I, we have approx. $3500 per semester (gov’t) benefits for 8 semesters (tuition, fees and housing only) for each kid. I would never waste these benefits on CC because whatever goes unused each semester disappears. My youngest will have the 8 semesters to use beginning their junior yr (if they decide to get an Associate deg. first at CC). If they should be admitted to a UC school, our benefits will cover 12 quarters. My benes MAY go up another $500 per semester (or $333 per quarter) by the time my youngest reaches college.
I will be nice for my youngest to have 4 yrs. worth of benes for 2 yrs at Univ because it is NO LONGER FEASIBLE to expect to get all the classes you need in CA universities in order to graduate in four years. They can use any unused semesters of their lifetime benefit on grad school, if they wish. Or go to university part-time and work (slower and less stressful).
None of my kids have student loans or will take them out.
I wouldn’t be able to save for their college and still eat, have hot water and retire someday.
scaredy, I looked at Maya’s site and like her early GED and traveling idea but none of my kids would have chosen to do that, nor would they want to hang out in CC while their peers were in HS. They have been too “indoctrinated” in their culture and friends to leave everything they know and love behind to live in a third-world country. But I can see how this experience would enrich a young person and change his/her perspective on life (and the world) for the better :=)
scaredyclassic
November 2, 2010 @
12:10 PM
Actually mine are Actually mine are indoctrinated too. We told our oldest it’s fine by us of he drops out and takes the GED but he wants to be a regular hs student. Different deal than I had in terms of parental pressure. Still I think it’s going to be liberating and relaxing to know you’re there by choice. Frankly I don’t give a damn as to grades. I know he’s smarter than me, just needs to give a damn, sure he will do well at anything he wants. That’s a better deal than harping over grades and anxiety re future imnho.
the reason not to save for college is it will not be as valuable to them if they are not making it happen.
I have a kid presumably “graduating” this December from CSU.
We are revising our “college plan” for our last kid who has a little ways to go yet before college.
I find it ridiculous that CSU college seniors have to be so in-your-face-political in order to obtain the classes necessary for graduation. This is after spending (and paying for) 11 semesters in attempt to obtain a degree that is supposed to take 8-9 semesters to obtain. As of Spring 2011, they will charge $1619 to take a last-needed 3 hr. class to graduate (that wasn’t even offered for the three previous semesters)!! Yes, dear Piggs, =< 6 credit hours is the *new* part-time. Why is this happening??? "Budget cuts." One department head told me he had to recently lay off 12 profs in his dept at SFSU.
See: http://www.sfsu.edu/~bursar/student/fees/undergrad_fees.html
The profs that remain teaching in that dept. no doubt are “vested” in the retirement system and “tenured” so couldn’t be layed off acc. to “Public Law.” I have no doubt that the cost of the “vested employees” retirements is the reason for the layoffs.
This same story is replicated at ALL CSU campuses throughout the state. The “impacted” campuses (read: coastal locations) are suffering the worst from their students’ inability to obtain upper-division classes to graduate in a timely manner.
It didn’t used to be like this.
SK in CV
November 8, 2010 @
8:58 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
It didn’t [quote=bearishgurl]
It didn’t used to be like this.[/quote]
In the mid-70’s at SDSU it was exactly like that. Only a lot cheaper.
bearishgurl
November 8, 2010 @
9:17 PM
SK in CV wrote:bearishgurl [quote=SK in CV][quote=bearishgurl]
It didn’t used to be like this.[/quote]
In the mid-70’s at SDSU it was exactly like that. Only a lot cheaper.[/quote]
SK, in the “mid 70’s,” SDSU was less than $130 per semester for a full-time student (+ $20 for parking per sem which now costs nearly $300)!
If you couldn’t graduate “on time” at that price . . . so be it!
Now we’re talking about REAL MONEY, esp. when housing is involved, i.e. staying in exp. rental housing for several more months to take ONE LAST CLASS!!
UCGal
November 9, 2010 @
8:24 AM
The inflation at SDSU is not The inflation at SDSU is not new.
When I started at SDSU in 83 it was $250ish per semester. When I graduated in 88 it was $550ish per semester.
Of course the impact of prop 13 was rearing it’s head then. During that same 4 years I saw all of the part time prof’s laid off, core classes become impossible to get, and library hours cut.
Nothing is new.
But – it was more affordable, even with the more than 100% increase in “fees”. I had a friend who was a full time engineering student while working part time at baskin robbins and part time at McDonalds – paying her rent, no help from her folks. She *could* go to school on crappy jobs (as long as she was willing to live in squalor, share a studio apartment, and give up sleep.) Today it would be harder to do.
jstoesz
November 9, 2010 @
8:38 AM
Trends that can not Trends that can not continue…Don’t!
Not saying it is ever going to be reasonable again, but this trend can not continue.[/quote]
Good point. We’ve all heard the claims that tuition will continue to significantly outpace inflation for many years, but this is simply not mathematically possible.
If we continue to extrapolate past tuition increases into the future, college campuses will be ghost towns in ten years or so. Because nobody could afford to go.
SK in CV
November 9, 2010 @
11:48 AM
bearishgurl wrote:
SK, in the [quote=bearishgurl]
SK, in the “mid 70’s,” SDSU was less than $130 per semester for a full-time student (+ $20 for parking per sem which now costs nearly $300)!
If you couldn’t graduate “on time” at that price . . . so be it!
Now we’re talking about REAL MONEY, esp. when housing is involved, i.e. staying in exp. rental housing for several more months to take ONE LAST CLASS!![/quote]
Valid point. I think my first few semesters there were around $200 INCLUDING books. But for my first 4 semesters there I had to crash almost every single class. And they kept switching around the registration priority rules so even by my 5th year I wasn’t able to register for a lot of the classes I needed. But you’re right, it didn’t cost more than $20,000 to spend another year in college.
And for what it’s worth, my daughter just graduated from UCSD last June in 4 years. She did get all the classes she needed, and another quarter would have given her a 2nd minor. Although, she did enter with enough credits from high school to pretty much skip the equivalent of 2 quarters. So those AP classes DO help a whole lot.
bearishgurl
November 9, 2010 @
1:51 PM
SK in CV wrote:. . . And for [quote=SK in CV]. . . And for what it’s worth, my daughter just graduated from UCSD last June in 4 years. She did get all the classes she needed, and another quarter would have given her a 2nd minor. Although, she did enter with enough credits from high school to pretty much skip the equivalent of 2 quarters. So those AP classes DO help a whole lot.[/quote]
That’s great, SK! My last kid is slated to take several AP classes next year. They have a few other interests as well so I hope they can handle it. I only thought the AP classes gave the student an extra point each (to calculate their GPA). I was not aware that they could also serve to take the place of GE credits necessary for a Bachelor degree!
SK in CV
November 9, 2010 @
6:52 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
That’s [quote=bearishgurl]
That’s great, SK! My last kid is slated to take several AP classes next year. They have a few other interests as well so I hope they can handle it. I only thought the AP classes gave the student an extra point each (to calculate their GPA). I was not aware that they could also serve to take the place of GE credits necessary for a Bachelor degree![/quote]
Thanks! My daughter is kind of a freak. Her choice of classes were all hers. Never had to push her. Never got anything but A’s. (She also played varsity sports for 4 years and all kinds of other groups and activities. Like i said, she’s a freak) If I recall correctly, she got credit for AP English, Calc, Bio and Chemistry, so didnt have to take the lower level classes in college.
But my larger point was that despite the over-crowded classes and inability for kids to get classes they need that we hear about in the SU system, the UC system doesn’t seem to have the problem with graduating kids in 4 years IF the kids are motivated and have a fixed target. I suspect changing majors half way through could cause problems even in the UC system. (Fortunately that was never a problem for my daughter, she decided what she wanted to do when she was about 10. She still hasn’t wavered.)
bearishgurl
November 9, 2010 @
9:26 PM
SK in CV wrote:Thanks! My [quote=SK in CV]Thanks! My daughter is kind of a freak. Her choice of classes were all hers. Never had to push her. Never got anything but A’s. (She also played varsity sports for 4 years and all kinds of other groups and activities. Like i said, she’s a freak) If I recall correctly, she got credit for AP English, Calc, Bio and Chemistry, so didnt have to take the lower level classes in college.
But my larger point was that despite the over-crowded classes and inability for kids to get classes they need that we hear about in the SU system, the UC system doesn’t seem to have the problem with graduating kids in 4 years IF the kids are motivated and have a fixed target. I suspect changing majors half way through could cause problems even in the UC system. (Fortunately that was never a problem for my daughter, she decided what she wanted to do when she was about 10. She still hasn’t wavered.)[/quote]
You hit the nail on the head, right there, SK. Counsel your kids not to waste time, not to change majors, take extraneous “fun” classes, etc. Take college seriously, like their future “career.” It’s not a party-time “laughing matter” anymore. It’s serious business. Get done in four years and GET OUT!! Every quarter or semester you waste trying to “find yourself,” you end up wasting your future hard-earned $$ and also that of your parents precious hard-earned $$ while your costs escalate beyond recognition. If you need to “find yourself,” do everyone a favor and do so BEFORE enrolling in college!
I am in hopes that my youngest will be accepted into a UC campus. We shall see . . .
[end of rant]
scaredyclassic
November 9, 2010 @
9:31 PM
maybe the best strategy is to maybe the best strategy is to try to bury a one ounce gold coin every other month for each child.
joec
November 10, 2010 @
12:15 AM
I don’t think I agree with I don’t think I agree with all the get out of college ASAP talk and that grad school is a waste of money, etc etc etc…or that you should go to JC, transfer, etc.
I wrote about this on another thread, but what people should do if they can is think about what profession they want to go into, then decide if college makes the most sense for that profession. Some jobs don’t require any college at all (specifically computer science or starting a company or a franchise). If you want to do electrical, civil or other types of pure engineering, good luck finding ANY job without an engineering degree. Same goes for accounting, etc…
This is true for those wanting to be a doctor, a lawyer, or maybe even a politician since it sounds like a lot of those folks are lawyers as well. Also, having experienced this personally, when you are climbing the corporate ladder, they DO care about folks with MBAs from top schools even though folks on the ground may not.
Law degrees maybe worthless to some folks, but I know plenty of folks who has no trouble finding work as an attorney making a very good living compared to the run of the mill degree/tech job, etc… That’s completely not true for other degrees (me included with my engr degree). I also have family who are self employed dual doctors probably making upwards of 500k/year. Good luck getting ANY chance to make that without medical school.
It sounds great to graduate quickly and work, but having been there, done that, I don’t see the crazy need to rush it since you’ll be working the rest of your life. Also, your youth and mindset in college is really a 1 shot deal. Once you graduate and start working, you simply won’t think the same anymore so enjoy it while it lasts. I would love to be 18 and relive college again if I could.
Of course, this is because I felt college was some of the best years of my life and I really enjoyed starting my freshman year in a 4 year program off the bat. I enjoyed the dorms greatly as well…Of course, it was cheaper back then and hopefully, some folks simply don’t go to college so they lower prices and eliminate those guaranteed loans which has been jacking up the cost.
A lot of a person’s view on this has to do with what you experienced or have seen and it sounds it’s very jaded based on that.
temeculaguy
November 10, 2010 @
1:17 AM
Nice points joec. There’s Nice points joec. There’s something to be said about one’s personal experiences and projecting them onto your children. I’m guilty of that myself but in the opposite way of most of the posts. Like you, I loved college. I liked the dorms, I liked living in a fraternity house, I liked drinking and chasing girls, sprinkle in clases in between. In the 20+ years since it ended, I miss it. There are things in life I enjoy as a grown up, but those were the glory days, never to be repeated. More of what I learned outside of the classroom made me who I am and has served me better than anything I learned from a textbook. But the testbooks were a neccesary building block, it taught me the method for researching things, basic concepts and exposed me by force to things I’d never discover on my own. I’d say that I wouldn’t have the same experience going to a JC or living at home, but I can’t say that, because I didn’t do that, so I’ll never know. Maybe it would have ended the same way.
I always figured I’d give my kids a similar education and saved for it. I didn’t save for medical school, just enough to cover room, board and tuition for each kid to go to a state school. If they wanted/needed more I’d borrow the difference. One of my kids is getting close to application time, but I’ve come to realize he’s not me, he wants something different. He wants to live at home, go to San Marcos (which I really don’t see as a college town in my mind, it’s like a big JC until they get a football team and fraternities, but that’s my paradigm, not his). I was kind of bothered by it for a while until I read this thread. I see all these people wanting their kid to be responsible, economical, studious and serious. My only hope was that they have the time of their life, come back with all their limbs and nobody gets pregnant or gets anyone pregnant. There may have been a mix up at the hospital I got some engineer’s kid.
But in reverse, I was guilty of the same thing, I wanted them to be like me and they are going to be who they are.
My advice to flu, just save what you can, don’t worry too much about it, you have no idea where life will take them. Don’t map out their life too much, there’s no sense in spending a bunch of money to get your kid a first rate engineering degree if they hate engineering.
Also, do not do this, I just did and this thread made me realize how much I need to take my own advice.
My other kid is definately going off and living at school, that kid was made for college. I spent Saturday trying to talk her into going to Oregon because they are #1 in the BCS right now (my apologies if 80% of you don’t understand what that means). She resisted, complained about the weather, mentioned another school that doesn’t even have a football team. I have a buddy who’s kid goes to an SEC school, he goes to half of the games, he’s having a ball. I told her that if I’m paying out of state tuition and paying to fly out to visit, then I get to go to big time football games. They also have to be in the top 25 of the BCS at some point during the year, if it’s a UC, they have to be in the PAC 10 and if SDSU beats TCU on Saturday, then that becomes an option.
I’m such a jerk
CardiffBaseball
November 10, 2010 @
3:50 PM
TG think Ohio State. The TG think Ohio State. The massive alumni connections alone are worth the out-of-state tuition.
Despite the first Rose Bowl since something like 1917 the Bucks still outnumbered the Ducks in Pasadena.
jstoesz
November 10, 2010 @
4:39 PM
I have to plug Cal Poly here. I have to plug Cal Poly here.
No better town in California, especially for a college kid. Academically oriented school with across the board high marks. Many programs are regarded much more highly than the UC’s, especially the engineering dept. Its a school that has a very subdued party scene (at least in relation to other public schools).
And it is dirt cheap for instate tuition compared to almost any school of similar academic prowess.
I am an alumni so I am biased. But it is the reason I have the good job prospects that I have. It is the reason for my wife’s going and getting into PA school. She has better job prospects than anyone I know or have heard about.
enron_by_the_sea
November 10, 2010 @
4:44 PM
temeculaguy wrote:N I told [quote=temeculaguy]N I told her that if I’m paying out of state tuition and paying to fly out to visit, then I get to go to big time football games. They also have to be in the top 25 of the BCS at some point during the year, if it’s a UC, they have to be in the PAC 10 and if SDSU beats TCU on Saturday, then that becomes an option.
[/quote]
November 1, 2010 @ 4:16 PM
I’m trying to do some
I’m trying to do some budgeting.. But some questions
1)How much do you folks plan on spending for your kid’s ungrad education?
2) Are you also planning on grad related education (for instance Med School/etc)? Or are you adopting a “you’re on your own approach for higher education”?
Estimates: per kid, in today’s dollars preferably, assuming a reasonable level of inflation (say 4%, rather than the dollar ending up like toilet paper)
Definition of spending: Perhaps I should have worded it “how much are you planning on spending on your kids education” on the original poll title instead of saving….For example, if you plan on mortgaging your home or something like than.
Some of these costs are just getting frickin ridiculous imho.
November 1, 2010 @ 4:25 PM
check out http://www.mayafrost.com
check out http://www.mayafrost.com before you start saving money.
might expand your consciousness. she has a bunch of successful girls.
bottom line, she had her girls get ged’s early, study in community colleges, get great travel life experiences, and continue with degrees later with costs in mind.
saving for an education may be doing your kid a big disservice. her book persuaded me, i read it cover to cover in one sitting.
November 1, 2010 @ 5:04 PM
I’m only in my late 20’s but
I’m only in my late 20’s but the saving for your kid’s college education always seemed a bit cliche to me. I plan to have my kids pay for their own education just as I did.
My sister moved away for college so my parents helped her with rent but she paid for her own tuition.
My older brother and I lived at home during our undergrad years so we didn’t have to worry about rent but we still paid our own tuition.
We had to apply for scholarships, grants, and take some loans but we managed while working part time jobs and internships.
The only reason I would think you would need to save for your kids’ college tuition is if you plan on sending them to an ivy league school with outrageous costs.
November 1, 2010 @ 6:32 PM
I’m not saving another penny.
I’m not saving another penny.
I just got finished paying for two college educations. I never set up separate accounts or anything, but I did have a target to have as part of my overall savings to pay for their college. By the time they got to high school, that number seemed to double every year. Fortunately never had to actually dip into savings, but I gotta tell you, $40,000 a year in after tax cash is a whole lotta money. Probably close to $150,000 total between the two of them. And they both went to UC’s, mostly before the tuition went up almost 40%. Still probably about the cheapest tuition out there. Some private schools are quoting over $50,000 a year now.
They’re both headed to grad school. They can figure out how to pay for that themselves. I’ll continue to pay for their car and medical insurance, but hopefully that’s about it. Oh, and their cell phones. And probably travel home to visit. Who the hell am I kidding. Probably still cost me $10,000 a year each. I’ll retire when i’m 90. About the same time they finish paying off their student loans so they can support me.
November 1, 2010 @ 7:13 PM
I took the budget info on the
I took the budget info on the UCSD website – then took their costs of housing/etc and lowered it.
I came up with $25k/year/kid.
So my goal is $100k/kid.
If they go to private school I hope they get financial aid – because that’s all I’m planning for. And I’m old and will hopefully be retired about the time they go to college. Hubster will definitely be retired.
I lowered the housing costs from the UC estimates because I plan to offer the same deal I got – tuition/books at a CAL or UC school, *poverty level* housing support – enough that my kid can share a dive apartment in a questionable neighborhood – but will want to get a job for spending money and will learn that Raman and quesadillas are gourmet delights that can sustain you.
November 1, 2010 @ 7:47 PM
UCGal wrote:I took the budget
[quote=UCGal]I took the budget info on the UCSD website – then took their costs of housing/etc and lowered it.
I came up with $25k/year/kid.
So my goal is $100k/kid.
[/quote]
Hopefully it’s not too many years off. When my son started at UCSC 6 years ago, their estimate was just over $20K a year, pretty much the same as when my daughter started at UCSD 4 years ago. Neither of them cost that much, a few thousand lower I think. With the increase in tuition, $25K would probably work now. But if there are tuition increases (as I suspect there will be), that might be a little shy if it’s more than a few years off. (And if some of them go private, as the whispers are talking about, who knows how that will change the landscape.)
November 2, 2010 @ 10:47 AM
SK in CV wrote:UCGal wrote:I
[quote=SK in CV][quote=UCGal]I took the budget info on the UCSD website – then took their costs of housing/etc and lowered it.
I came up with $25k/year/kid.
So my goal is $100k/kid.
[/quote]
Hopefully it’s not too many years off. [/quote]
It’s a ways off… I was old when I had the boys… But I’m hoping the market gains will help. If we have another 2008 right before college, their 529’s will be hurting.
November 2, 2010 @ 1:34 PM
UCGal wrote:SK in CV
[quote=UCGal][quote=SK in CV][quote=UCGal]I took the budget info on the UCSD website – then took their costs of housing/etc and lowered it.
I came up with $25k/year/kid.
So my goal is $100k/kid.
[/quote]
Hopefully it’s not too many years off. [/quote]
It’s a ways off… I was old when I had the boys… But I’m hoping the market gains will help. If we have another 2008 right before college, their 529’s will be hurting.[/quote]
With 529 are you with? I’m currently with Nevada’s plan. I didn’t like CA’s plan for some reason. Are you actively managing? I’m a little concerned because I’m just doing the standard 33%/33%/34% total stock/total international/high yield bond funds… I just ended up dumping high yield bonds, but having conflicts on what to do next. Yeah, when it comes to my own accounts, I don’t mind screwing up as much….But not the 529.
November 2, 2010 @ 1:43 PM
I’m in Nevada (Vanguard)
I’m in Nevada (Vanguard) also… because my dad had it there when he passed. He started out with a CA one (fidelity) and hated the performance so he switched.
I will say this about Vanguard – they are a TOTAL PITA to deal with to transfer if the owner of the 529 dies. They lost multiple copies of my dad’s death cert… until I finally sent it certified/signature required. (same happened with the IRA he had there… they kept losing the death cert.) Nice people, but the 529 group doesn’t talk to the brokerage group and required completely separate copies of proof of death.
It’s not an issue if you plan to have the kids use the money before you die. LOL.
November 1, 2010 @ 7:53 PM
SK in CV wrote:I’m not saving
[quote=SK in CV]I’m not saving another penny.
I just got finished paying for two college educations. I never set up separate accounts or anything, but I did have a target to have as part of my overall savings to pay for their college. By the time they got to high school, that number seemed to double every year. Fortunately never had to actually dip into savings, but I gotta tell you, $40,000 a year in after tax cash is a whole lotta money. Probably close to $150,000 total between the two of them. And they both went to UC’s, mostly before the tuition went up almost 40%. Still probably about the cheapest tuition out there. Some private schools are quoting over $50,000 a year now.
They’re both headed to grad school. They can figure out how to pay for that themselves. I’ll continue to pay for their car and medical insurance, but hopefully that’s about it. Oh, and their cell phones. And probably travel home to visit. Who the hell am I kidding. Probably still cost me $10,000 a year each. I’ll retire when i’m 90. About the same time they finish paying off their student loans so they can support me.[/quote]
$40k for 2 per year or $40k each per year for public school? My god.
Assuming you meant $20k for 1 per year (I hope)…… Hmmm $20k + 5% inflation over the next 14 years….Somewhere around $40k/year(+- depending on compound)….
$@#!%R#!%#!$!#$%!#@$%#!#@$!#@$@!#!@#$!#@$!@$#$…
…So much for my retirement plans before 40… 🙁
(Here lucky scratcher lottery ticket…scratch scratch scratch…Drat…scratch scratch scratch…drat….)…
Ok next question
True of false….In part of financial aid consideration, they count not only how much money you (parents) have, but how much equity you have in your home (the expectation is that if you have sufficient equity, they expect you to take out a mortgage)???
November 2, 2010 @ 1:00 PM
flu wrote:
Ok next
[quote=flu]
Ok next question
True of false….In part of financial aid consideration, they count not only how much money you (parents) have, but how much equity you have in your home (the expectation is that if you have sufficient equity, they expect you to take out a mortgage)???[/quote]
FAFSA doesn’t take into account home equity, but CSS Profile” does.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_Family_Contribution
How does FAFSA and CSS verify assets anyway? Do they have access to the balance in your bank accounts? How does CSS Profile determine/verify how much home equity you have? Seems like there’s quite a bit of wiggle room in FAFSA/PROFILE.
November 2, 2010 @ 1:22 PM
ybitz wrote:FAFSA doesn’t
[quote=ybitz]FAFSA doesn’t take into account home equity, but CSS Profile” does.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_Family_Contribution
How does FAFSA and CSS verify assets anyway? Do they have access to the balance in your bank accounts? How does CSS Profile determine/verify how much home equity you have? Seems like there’s quite a bit of wiggle room in FAFSA/PROFILE.[/quote]
Parent(s) have to submit copies of their prior-year tax returns each year they apply for aid with the FAFSA (don’t know about CSS). Not sure if they have a way determining the legitimacy of the tax return attached to the FAFSA, i.e. if those returns submitted are identical to the ones filed with the IRS.
November 2, 2010 @ 1:26 PM
bearishgurl wrote:ybitz
[quote=bearishgurl][quote=ybitz]FAFSA doesn’t take into account home equity, but CSS Profile” does.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_Family_Contribution
How does FAFSA and CSS verify assets anyway? Do they have access to the balance in your bank accounts? How does CSS Profile determine/verify how much home equity you have? Seems like there’s quite a bit of wiggle room in FAFSA/PROFILE.[/quote]
Parent(s) have to submit copies of their prior-year tax returns each year they apply for aid with the FAFSA (don’t know about CSS). Not sure if they have a way determining the legitimacy of the tax return attached to the FAFSA, i.e. if those returns submitted are identical to the ones filed with the IRS.[/quote]
I’ve been reading that moving forward, parent’s home equity WILL be taken into consideration. Nice huh?
So if I go upside down, does that mean I get credit back?
November 2, 2010 @ 2:29 PM
flu wrote:
I’ve been reading
[quote=flu]
I’ve been reading that moving forward, parent’s home equity WILL be taken into consideration. Nice huh?
[/quote]
That would suck.
[quote=flu]
So if I go upside down, does that mean I get credit back?
[/quote]
What is strange is that assets, but not debt, are considered. Somehow we are expected to use a percentage of our gross assets towards education with no consideraiton of our net assets.
So, if you own a 500K house free and clear and have 40K in the bank, you essentially have zero assets for consideration. But, if you had a 500K house, with a 400K loan and $440K in assets, you would be expected to commit something in the range of 20-30K towards school costs. The FASFA system of assessing assets does not meet even a standard that I would expect from a high school economics class.
November 2, 2010 @ 4:04 PM
FormerSanDiegan wrote:flu
[quote=FormerSanDiegan][quote=flu]
I’ve been reading that moving forward, parent’s home equity WILL be taken into consideration. Nice huh?
[/quote]
That would suck.
[quote=flu]
So if I go upside down, does that mean I get credit back?
[/quote]
What is strange is that assets, but not debt, are considered. Somehow we are expected to use a percentage of our gross assets towards education with no consideraiton of our net assets.
So, if you own a 500K house free and clear and have 40K in the bank, you essentially have zero assets for consideration. But, if you had a 500K house, with a 400K loan and $440K in assets, you would be expected to commit something in the range of 20-30K towards school costs. The FASFA system of assessing assets does not meet even a standard that I would expect from a high school economics class.[/quote]
Hmmm. So then the solution is a few years before the kids enter college, pay off your mortgage with your assets. Then once they enter college, do a cash out refinance out of your home to replenish your assets.
November 2, 2010 @ 12:13 PM
Oni Koroshi wrote: . . . We
[quote=Oni Koroshi] . . . We had to apply for scholarships, grants, and take some loans but we managed while working part time jobs and internships.
The only reason I would think you would need to save for your kids’ college tuition is if you plan on sending them to an ivy league school with outrageous costs.[/quote]
Oni, Neither I or my kid’s dad could put in a FAFSA and expect ANY kind of aid so neither of us have ever tried. He makes way too much $$ and both of us have assets that we would be expected to tap first. Thus, grants and need-based scholarships are OUT for us.
The “Ivies” are overrated, IMHO. They are probably a good environment conducive to learning but are “over-the-top” expensive, unless the student is granted full scholarships year after year. A student has no guarantee of a higher salary after graduation from an ivy league school than they do after graduation from a public institution.
November 2, 2010 @ 1:07 PM
Here is the optimal strategy
Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.
November 2, 2010 @ 1:30 PM
FormerSanDiegan wrote:Here is
[quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
Why not just open an offshore account and shovel stuff there? Just kidding…..
November 2, 2010 @ 2:08 PM
flu wrote:FormerSanDiegan
[quote=flu][quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
Why not just open an offshore account and shovel stuff there? Just kidding…..[/quote]
I’m not into evasion methods that might require forgery or tax evasion, but definitely want to consider all legal ways to avoid taxes or maximize financial aid.
November 2, 2010 @ 3:54 PM
flu wrote:FormerSanDiegan
[quote=flu][quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
Why not just open an offshore account and shovel stuff there? Just kidding…..[/quote]
You know you’re not kidding 🙂
November 2, 2010 @ 4:00 PM
AN wrote:flu
[quote=AN][quote=flu][quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
Why not just open an offshore account and shovel stuff there? Just kidding…..[/quote]
You know you’re not kidding :-)[/quote]
I’m only kidding because I know it’s not legal and it’s easy to get caught. But that gives me another idea. Just convert everything into gold bullion… I’m kidding (again) 🙂
November 2, 2010 @ 2:18 PM
FormerSanDiegan wrote:Here is
[quote=FormerSanDiegan]Here is the optimal strategy as pfar as I can tell.
Stuff retirement accounts to the max. When you get to sophomore year in HS, plan to cash out all non-retirement investments,pay off the mortgage and quit your jobs about the time the FAFSA forms are due. That way you’ll have zero income and zero assets for student loan purposes.
After a couple years of living as bums go back to work.
We’re about 5 years away from sophomore year in HS, so I don’t know how feasible it might be for us.[/quote]
What’s the difference between that and a welfare queen who pops out children and refuses to work? Nothing illegal about that either.
So much for financial responsibility and carrying your weight.
November 2, 2010 @ 2:22 PM
walterwhite wrote: . . . Also
[quote=walterwhite] . . . Also part of the reason I am buyingvthis giant fancy mansion is the hope that my kids will stick around for a fewdxtra years in community college. . . [/quote]
[quote=FormerSanDiegan] . . . After a couple years of living as bums go back to work. . . . [/quote]
FSD, better make that 4-5 years (or however long it takes for your kid to get thru college) of living as bums . . . just in case you have to submit with your annual FAFSAs an authorization for the FAFSA people to order your Federal tax return numbers . . . lol!
After the four years are up, you might be OLD and/or in a higher health insurance category. (We don’t yet know how the HCRA will “play itself out” with employers.) Then employers won’t want you. Not trying rain on anyone’s parade here . . . just trying to be realistic.
I know 100% “disabled vets” whose kids all got 100% of their college tuition/fees paid plus at least $830 mo. for books and living expense (by the VA’s “Chapter 30 program”) To look at and observe some of these guys, one has to wonder how they are actually “100% disabled.”
Life’s often not fair. It seems the folks who have any assets at all are ineligible for most “benefits.”
As a consolation, we can all just “sell-out” and retire to Mt. Shasta to the “simple life,” forming a wayward Pigg commune. This will, of course, be AFTER our kids have graduated from college and left the nest and we are all broke or semi-broke. Then we can set up our telescopes and invite scaredy up to our quarterly stargazing events (w/local wine tasting, of course) to act as our “outhouse consultant” and lecture and give us Power-Point presentations on the proper methods of “successful humanuring” . . . lol! He and his spouse won’t be retiring under the stars with us because they will be living the “green dream” down in the (by then “waterless”) RIV Co desert with their children, ages 35 and 38 :=]
November 2, 2010 @ 2:41 PM
bearishgurl
[quote=bearishgurl]
[quote=FormerSanDiegan] . . . After a couple years of living as bums go back to work. . . . [/quote]
FSD, better make that 4-5 years (or however long it takes for your kid to get thru college) of living as bums . . . just in case you have to submit with your annual FAFSAs an authorization for the FAFSA people to order your Federal tax return numbers . . . lol!
After the four years are up, you might be OLD and/or in a higher health insurance category. (We don’t yet know how the HCRA will “play itself out” with employers.) Then employers won’t want you. Not trying rain on anyone’s parade here . . . just trying to be realistic.
[/quote]
I know, I know… It’s mostly a pipe dream. I was just looking for a couple of free years of roaming around the time I turn 50. Maybe we should go back to school, too, and get financial aid for ourselves. I have fond memories of the decade I spent in college. Or start a B&B where we will be guaranteed very low net incomes. Or become a teacher at a parochial school and guarantee an even lower income.
November 2, 2010 @ 4:01 PM
FormerSanDiegan
[quote=FormerSanDiegan][quote=bearishgurl]
[quote=FormerSanDiegan] . . . After a couple years of living as bums go back to work. . . . [/quote]
FSD, better make that 4-5 years (or however long it takes for your kid to get thru college) of living as bums . . . just in case you have to submit with your annual FAFSAs an authorization for the FAFSA people to order your Federal tax return numbers . . . lol!
After the four years are up, you might be OLD and/or in a higher health insurance category. (We don’t yet know how the HCRA will “play itself out” with employers.) Then employers won’t want you. Not trying rain on anyone’s parade here . . . just trying to be realistic.
[/quote]
I know, I know… It’s mostly a pipe dream. I was just looking for a couple of free years of roaming around the time I turn 50. Maybe we should go back to school, too, and get financial aid for ourselves. I have fond memories of the decade I spent in college. Or start a B&B where we will be guaranteed very low net incomes. Or become a teacher at a parochial school and guarantee an even lower income.[/quote]
You know, 529 beneficiaries are transferable 🙂
November 9, 2010 @ 8:53 AM
bearishgurl wrote:
Oni,
[quote=bearishgurl]
Oni, Neither I or my kid’s dad could put in a FAFSA and expect ANY kind of aid so neither of us have ever tried. He makes way too much $$ and both of us have assets that we would be expected to tap first. Thus, grants and need-based scholarships are OUT for us.
The “Ivies” are overrated, IMHO. They are probably a good environment conducive to learning but are “over-the-top” expensive, unless the student is granted full scholarships year after year. A student has no guarantee of a higher salary after graduation from an ivy league school than they do after graduation from a public institution.[/quote]
You can still file a FAFSA to get subsidized loans and get some unsubsidized loans if that couldn’t cover everything. I didn’t get very much from free grants but I was able to get some merit based scholarship money on top of my loans. I finished my grad school in ’07 and I know the UC tuition has been steadily going up (it went up almost every year during my undergrad and grad years) but I think it’s still possible for someone to pay their own way through the UC system. With a little help from their parents it should be very manageable without being burdened with a mountain of debt after graduation.
November 9, 2010 @ 10:42 AM
Oni Koroshi wrote:You can
[quote=Oni Koroshi]You can still file a FAFSA to get subsidized loans and get some unsubsidized loans if that couldn’t cover everything. I didn’t get very much from free grants but I was able to get some merit based scholarship money on top of my loans. I finished my grad school in ’07 and I know the UC tuition has been steadily going up (it went up almost every year during my undergrad and grad years) but I think it’s still possible for someone to pay their own way through the UC system. With a little help from their parents it should be very manageable without being burdened with a mountain of debt after graduation.[/quote]
Oni, if my kid still in HS qualifies for any “merit-based scholarships,” then GREAT! Even a $1K – $4K scholarship will help. But I don’t want ANY of them to take out loans. I don’t want them “putting their adult lives on hold” because of burdensome student loans. I’ve seen it throughout my life with lawyers. It’s not unusual for them to be 39 and STILL paying $700 – $1500 mo. student-loan payments. Of course, law school is one of the most expensive grad schools to attend.
My kid(s) went to CSU. My kid about to graduate from SFSU has a good chance of landing the very same position (about $68K to start) that they are currently interning as. They will know in January. And they may be ready to possibly get married in the coming year(s) and buy a house, which I will help them with. I want them to be able to get a (probable fixer) house in San Mateo County, SV, SJ or Hayward while the getting is good. My kids have relatives in SJ, Castro Valley and Fremont (on dad’s side). The SO’s parents currently live 5-6 miles away from them (not far from that big gas explosion a couple mos back . . . lol).
Throughout my life, I’ve seen a LOT of co-workers consolidate and re-consolidate in attempt to pay off voluminous student loans AFTER they’ve had children and now need a house that they can’t qualify for because of their student-loan debt. Many of their degrees ended up to be worthless for them. In addition, many attorneys have to make partner and get a cut of the action to finally retire their HUGE student loans. All this takes so much time that they’re still working 65+ hr weeks and single at the age of 45-50. For a woman, it’s now too late for them to have a family. For the men, they’re all out there at 48-55 years old looking for a 28-35 yo spouse to (quickly) have the family with them that they never did. Just pathetic. If they planned their lives with a little more forethought, they would be looking forward to a carefree retirement now instead of diapers. We only get one chance to go thru every stage of our lives. It’s very difficult to recover from mortgaging yourself into oblivion when you’re just leaving the starting blocks of life.
Grad school is WAY overrated (AND VERY expensive). There are too many “professionals” of every persuasion in this state virtually “bumping into each other” for the same scarce job openings. Malpractice insurance is too high to go out on your own when you’re just starting out. Candidates with advanced degrees are “overqualified” for garden-variety business positions as organizations DO NOT want to pay the money or get them in only to have them leave when something comes up in their field.
I’m old now but I can safely say that none of us came back to live with our parents after HS. I don’t have any “boomerang kids” and I don’t want any. I don’t mind helping them a little bit to launch and learn to manage their money properly. When you’re 22-26 with a college degree, it’s time to be an adult now.
Call it tough love, if you will, but there won’t be any FAFSA submissions for us and NO LOANS that I’m a part of, period. It a BIG TRAP!
November 9, 2010 @ 10:44 AM
Oni, would you mind if I
Oni, would you mind if I asked . . . were you able to find an appropriate career position which utilizes your graduate degree and credentials? And do you currently reside and work in CA??
November 1, 2010 @ 7:56 PM
walterwhite wrote:check out
[quote=walterwhite]check out http://www.mayafrost.com before you start saving money.
might expand your consciousness. she has a bunch of successful girls.
bottom line, she had her girls get ged’s early, study in community colleges, get great travel life experiences, and continue with degrees later with costs in mind.
saving for an education may be doing your kid a big disservice. her book persuaded me, i read it cover to cover in one sitting.[/quote]
two sides to the coin. I love hearing about the success stories, but I’d like hearing about the other side they never tell you…The failures too…If her track record is more than 50%, ok maybe I think that’s a plan…But, like i said, no one likes talking about the failures (just like everyone is a stock picker expert,and the ones that suck wind are “long term capital losses”)
November 1, 2010 @ 8:12 PM
Hey FLU
Our son is going to
Hey FLU
Our son is going to community college for a few years and is still living at home. Tuition was dirt cheap by any other standard I can see. The books were more expensive than the tuition. The greater costs are in him living at home, paying for his medical insurance, food, etc.
He’ll move on to SDSU (hopefully) in a few years, and the costs will go up quite a bit. We expect and require him to get a job soon! The boy must learn what it means to earn and live within his means while he’s young.
November 1, 2010 @ 8:49 PM
Spending that much money on a
Spending that much money on a b. A. Guarantees nothing. People want the safe well trodden path. ESP for their kids. Bit fortune favors the bold! Up to a point.
November 1, 2010 @ 9:49 PM
walterwhite wrote:Spending
[quote=walterwhite]Spending that much money on a b. A. Guarantees nothing. People want the safe well trodden path. ESP for their kids. Bit fortune favors the bold! Up to a point.[/quote]
Agreed, but doing nothing doesn’t seem to be the optimum position to take either. Come on, do you think you would be an attorney with no degree, or your wifey be an M.D. without a degree either? I sure as hell wouldn’t want someone who was a mayafrost to operate on me.
Don’t know. Don’t have the answer. Sigh, the trust fund baby option is looking more and more tasty these days…Sell my tech work and do a small owner byob like dry cleaning. That’s the problem with tech.. It’s not something simple that one can just pass on.
I use to think trust fund kiddies were terrible. But now that I see just about the rest of the nation being nanny state recipients, people not paying mortgages, pensions up the ying yang, banksters getting those fat bonii, I can’t really tell the difference anymore…At least I would have some discretion as to where it goes (wasted possibly by my own blood, versus some complete stranger, or some pension board)….Sigh…Everyone man/woman for themselves, I guess….
November 2, 2010 @ 7:41 AM
The rules in California are
The rules in California are you only need an a.a. Degree to attend an unacceedited law school. So yeah I think it’s a decent option. I’d rather see my kid do that with zero debt than a fancy degree with 100k in debt. As for med school you’ll do better getting straight a grades at the local comm coll than b grades at zn ivy league school. Law medicine Is a numbers game for grad school admission high gpa high LSAT/mcat all the schools want high numbers … So no it’s not foreclosing options in my not humble opinion (imnho)
Also part of the reason I am buyingvthis giant fancy mansion is the hope that my kids will stick around for a fewdxtra years in community college.
Yeah I know might not happen. But I like having them around. A lot. If they want to go see the world or independent have adventures there’s plenty if options other than ship out to college at 18. One of my favorite books is called Dishwasher and it’s about a kid who sets off into the world with the goal if washing dishes professionally in every state. It’s a total hoot.
Don’t live in fear! The days of credentialusy success are nearing the end. If much rather see my boys get an ase mechanics cert that a ba in anthropology at age 21 … But on the other hand would you take career advice from a guy who dreams if composting his own turds?
November 2, 2010 @ 1:10 PM
walterwhite wrote:The rules
[quote=walterwhite]The rules in California are you only need an a.a. Degree to attend an unacceedited law school. So yeah I think it’s a decent option. I’d rather see my kid do that with zero debt than a fancy degree with 100k in debt . . . [/quote]
scaredy, funny you should mention this. Many years ago, I looked into enrolling in “Western Sierra Law School” (that had just opened in La Mesa). Not sure if its accredited or even if it is still open, lol! It was about $17K for the JD (3 or 4 yr program) at the time (cheap for law school) and an applicant to it only needed to have a decent LSAT score, a HS Diploma and a couple of recommendations from practicing attorneys. I could have gotten in but realized even back then that I would be trying to get hired at => age 50 after passing the bar (which I KNEW I could pass on the first try) so this wild “endeavor” would just prove to be futile (and increase my debt-load).
And who would hire a graduate of “Western Sierra Law School” anyway??
Seriously, scaredy, I could argue my own lengthy motion (AND respond to the opp) in court with my hands behind my back TODAY (that I drafted with my own brain and hands) but WHO CARES! NO FIRM wants to hire “old people.” I “missed my calling” 25-30 years ago and now know this and duly accept my “station in life” :=]
IMHO, a lot of these parents sweating about grades and college admissions today may find that they have a kid who drops out of college at 19-20 to go build stock cars and hang out at speedways (as a mechanic) watching them race and making adjustments/repairs along the way :=) This kid is now happy (and independent) so all his parents’ “sweating” was for nothing.
Just take a look at Adam Lambert, a 2000 graduate of MCHS (in PQ)! He never wanted to go to college so didn’t waste his parents’ $$ and is one of the best tenors that EVER LIVED, rivaling and EXCEEDING the talent of all the GREATS from back in “my time,” and there were MANY . . . lol!!
Educational level cannot rival aptitude and in-the-trenches experience. Many employers don’t see it this way, though. It seems they want “young” and “a piece of paper,” so I HAVE STEERED my kids towards college and will continue to do so.
November 1, 2010 @ 9:02 PM
Nothing saved one in 10th,
Nothing saved one in 10th, one in 8th. Both with decent grades (enough to qualify for Bright Futures in FLA) and both appear to be on track to play college baseball somewhere if they choose to pursue it (kind of fun but kind of a grind and a pain).
Beyond that I am not sure. I was too burnt out and only recruited d3 and decided I was done with sports. Wife was athlete at D1 school and is the bulldog.
Beyond that we are dropping all honors/AP classes next year. Don’t see the extra hours spent doing busy-work projects as being worth it (only because they are athletes). My older son (varsity football player for now) in two honors and one AP class and is wiped out and not getting A’s in any of the 3. He just isn’t that bright and at some point you can’t work hard enough to overcome being strapped mentally if you aren’t gifted for that path. Plus wife and I are dumb-jocks and see it as taking away time from training.
So my answer is about as anti-typical as you can get in a world where everyone’s kid is pushed to take as many of these classes as they can. My 8th grader is a straight-A student already taking HS spanish and algebra (this is nothing exceptional, just saying), and he too will opt out unless he specifically wants to be in one of those classes.
Why push the kids as if they are going to Harvard when we don’t have the cash. At their old school so many kids were expected to get into Ivy or Stanford or UC schools, and the kids bore a lot of pressure to keep that up. Don’t get me wrong many are capable, but the ones are not capable really bear the brunt from ma and pa… That’s when they learn to light the blunt…
November 2, 2010 @ 8:59 AM
The Government – Educational
The Government – Educational complex needs to be put out of it’s misery. The education system has become a industry designed to maximize the revenue from parents and alumni.
It is not designed to make pragmatic choices about education or provide relevant skills. It is about school for school sake. It starts with the push for everybody to go on the college.
November 2, 2010 @ 10:42 AM
My wife and I are not poster
My wife and I are not poster children for planning this kind of stuff.
I think the costs of any college will be divided from 4 sources. Grandparents (out of net worth,income,passive income), parents(investments,passive income, active employment income) our kids(work, non-debt aid of some kind).
Why do piggs almost never mention family assistance? I would think it to be pretty common, given the higher ranges of the middle class that most of you come from. In our case, I wouldn’t even be shocked if under some circumstances, an aunt/uncle, or even family friends offered to help.
November 2, 2010 @ 11:30 AM
Russell wrote:
Why do piggs
[quote=Russell]
Why do piggs almost never mention family assistance? I would think it to be pretty common, given the higher ranges of the middle class that most of you come from. In our case, I wouldn’t even be shocked if under some circumstances, an aunt/uncle, or even family friends offered to help.[/quote]
Mine offered, but I try not to count on it. Never know if they need it for their own expenses like medical.
November 2, 2010 @ 11:56 AM
Russell wrote:
Why do piggs
[quote=Russell]
Why do piggs almost never mention family assistance? I would think it to be pretty common, given the higher ranges of the middle class that most of you come from. In our case, I wouldn’t even be shocked if under some circumstances, an aunt/uncle, or even family friends offered to help.[/quote]
I was very fortunate – my dad started the boys’ 529’s when they were born… I’ve been adding funds to the accounts since he passed. Since my parents are dead and my one aunt is pretty poor – I don’t see any money coming from that area. Hubbie’s parents don’t have the resources and besides – my kids are grandchildren #11-12… any funds that would have been available would be long gone. (Anyone of my hubbies family that is planning on inheriting big from my in-laws is smoking crack.)
Not everyone has rich relatives waiting to help out.
I want to be able to offer my kids a debt free education WITH STRINGS ATTACHED. Public schools, poverty level support requiring they work part time and summers, no spring breaks in Cancun – and the major has to be one you can get a job in… so most liberal arts majors are out if they don’t agree to the corresponding teaching credential.
Right now we budget for college savings and are still retiring our debt and saving for retirement… so why not save for the college.
November 2, 2010 @ 10:46 AM
The CC is definitely a good
The CC is definitely a good plan. I did 2 years at City College before transferring to SDSU. Especially if your kid does not know what they want to major in… have then go jr college while they “try out” majors… much cheaper.
November 2, 2010 @ 11:52 AM
UCGal wrote:The CC is
[quote=UCGal]The CC is definitely a good plan. I did 2 years at City College before transferring to SDSU. Especially if your kid does not know what they want to major in… have then go jr college while they “try out” majors… much cheaper.[/quote]
UCGal, I, too, went to City College for some GE and business courses which have served me well – almost two years but no major.
My youngest is now stating they want to do CC (will be the first one that didn’t want to fly the coop to Univ after HS). It’s mostly because they don’t want to leave their friends and “home turf” of SWC. I am of the mind that many families who previously sent kids straight to Univ after HS and “paid” for it can no longer “afford” to do so (ability to HELOC dried up).
Also, my youngest has been told by their elder sibling(s) how hard it is to try to get the needed GE’s at a Univ with all the budget cuts and how expensive their portion of rent/utils are.
This is fine by me and I will pay the fees and we will attempt to obtain used books. Dad will pay for cell phone and health insurance.
Between their dad and I, we have approx. $3500 per semester (gov’t) benefits for 8 semesters (tuition, fees and housing only) for each kid. I would never waste these benefits on CC because whatever goes unused each semester disappears. My youngest will have the 8 semesters to use beginning their junior yr (if they decide to get an Associate deg. first at CC). If they should be admitted to a UC school, our benefits will cover 12 quarters. My benes MAY go up another $500 per semester (or $333 per quarter) by the time my youngest reaches college.
I will be nice for my youngest to have 4 yrs. worth of benes for 2 yrs at Univ because it is NO LONGER FEASIBLE to expect to get all the classes you need in CA universities in order to graduate in four years. They can use any unused semesters of their lifetime benefit on grad school, if they wish. Or go to university part-time and work (slower and less stressful).
None of my kids have student loans or will take them out.
I wouldn’t be able to save for their college and still eat, have hot water and retire someday.
scaredy, I looked at Maya’s site and like her early GED and traveling idea but none of my kids would have chosen to do that, nor would they want to hang out in CC while their peers were in HS. They have been too “indoctrinated” in their culture and friends to leave everything they know and love behind to live in a third-world country. But I can see how this experience would enrich a young person and change his/her perspective on life (and the world) for the better :=)
November 2, 2010 @ 12:10 PM
Actually mine are
Actually mine are indoctrinated too. We told our oldest it’s fine by us of he drops out and takes the GED but he wants to be a regular hs student. Different deal than I had in terms of parental pressure. Still I think it’s going to be liberating and relaxing to know you’re there by choice. Frankly I don’t give a damn as to grades. I know he’s smarter than me, just needs to give a damn, sure he will do well at anything he wants. That’s a better deal than harping over grades and anxiety re future imnho.
the reason not to save for college is it will not be as valuable to them if they are not making it happen.
November 8, 2010 @ 4:41 PM
This just
This just in..
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/08/uc-proposes-8-percent-fee-increase/
8% increase proposed at UC’s….
5,10% increase at CS’s….
I did see the word “pension” around….:)
November 8, 2010 @ 7:39 PM
flu wrote:This just
[quote=flu]This just in..
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/08/uc-proposes-8-percent-fee-increase/
8% increase proposed at UC’s….
5,10% increase at CS’s….
I did see the word “pension” around….:)[/quote]
I have a kid presumably “graduating” this December from CSU.
We are revising our “college plan” for our last kid who has a little ways to go yet before college.
I find it ridiculous that CSU college seniors have to be so in-your-face-political in order to obtain the classes necessary for graduation. This is after spending (and paying for) 11 semesters in attempt to obtain a degree that is supposed to take 8-9 semesters to obtain. As of Spring 2011, they will charge $1619 to take a last-needed 3 hr. class to graduate (that wasn’t even offered for the three previous semesters)!! Yes, dear Piggs, =< 6 credit hours is the *new* part-time. Why is this happening??? "Budget cuts." One department head told me he had to recently lay off 12 profs in his dept at SFSU. See: http://www.sfsu.edu/~bursar/student/fees/undergrad_fees.html
The profs that remain teaching in that dept. no doubt are “vested” in the retirement system and “tenured” so couldn’t be layed off acc. to “Public Law.” I have no doubt that the cost of the “vested employees” retirements is the reason for the layoffs.
This same story is replicated at ALL CSU campuses throughout the state. The “impacted” campuses (read: coastal locations) are suffering the worst from their students’ inability to obtain upper-division classes to graduate in a timely manner.
It didn’t used to be like this.
November 8, 2010 @ 8:58 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
It didn’t
[quote=bearishgurl]
It didn’t used to be like this.[/quote]
In the mid-70’s at SDSU it was exactly like that. Only a lot cheaper.
November 8, 2010 @ 9:17 PM
SK in CV wrote:bearishgurl
[quote=SK in CV][quote=bearishgurl]
It didn’t used to be like this.[/quote]
In the mid-70’s at SDSU it was exactly like that. Only a lot cheaper.[/quote]
SK, in the “mid 70’s,” SDSU was less than $130 per semester for a full-time student (+ $20 for parking per sem which now costs nearly $300)!
If you couldn’t graduate “on time” at that price . . . so be it!
Now we’re talking about REAL MONEY, esp. when housing is involved, i.e. staying in exp. rental housing for several more months to take ONE LAST CLASS!!
November 9, 2010 @ 8:24 AM
The inflation at SDSU is not
The inflation at SDSU is not new.
When I started at SDSU in 83 it was $250ish per semester. When I graduated in 88 it was $550ish per semester.
Of course the impact of prop 13 was rearing it’s head then. During that same 4 years I saw all of the part time prof’s laid off, core classes become impossible to get, and library hours cut.
Nothing is new.
But – it was more affordable, even with the more than 100% increase in “fees”. I had a friend who was a full time engineering student while working part time at baskin robbins and part time at McDonalds – paying her rent, no help from her folks. She *could* go to school on crappy jobs (as long as she was willing to live in squalor, share a studio apartment, and give up sleep.) Today it would be harder to do.
November 9, 2010 @ 8:38 AM
Trends that can not
Trends that can not continue…Don’t!
http://www.mymoneyblog.com/charts-college-tuition-vs-housing-bubble-vs-medical-costs.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mymoneyblog+%28My+Money+Blog%29
Not saying it is ever going to be reasonable again, but this trend can not continue.
November 10, 2010 @ 6:16 AM
jstoesz wrote:Trends that can
[quote=jstoesz]Trends that can not continue…Don’t!
http://www.mymoneyblog.com/charts-college-tuition-vs-housing-bubble-vs-medical-costs.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mymoneyblog+%28My+Money+Blog%29
Not saying it is ever going to be reasonable again, but this trend can not continue.[/quote]
Good point. We’ve all heard the claims that tuition will continue to significantly outpace inflation for many years, but this is simply not mathematically possible.
If we continue to extrapolate past tuition increases into the future, college campuses will be ghost towns in ten years or so. Because nobody could afford to go.
November 9, 2010 @ 11:48 AM
bearishgurl wrote:
SK, in the
[quote=bearishgurl]
SK, in the “mid 70’s,” SDSU was less than $130 per semester for a full-time student (+ $20 for parking per sem which now costs nearly $300)!
If you couldn’t graduate “on time” at that price . . . so be it!
Now we’re talking about REAL MONEY, esp. when housing is involved, i.e. staying in exp. rental housing for several more months to take ONE LAST CLASS!![/quote]
Valid point. I think my first few semesters there were around $200 INCLUDING books. But for my first 4 semesters there I had to crash almost every single class. And they kept switching around the registration priority rules so even by my 5th year I wasn’t able to register for a lot of the classes I needed. But you’re right, it didn’t cost more than $20,000 to spend another year in college.
And for what it’s worth, my daughter just graduated from UCSD last June in 4 years. She did get all the classes she needed, and another quarter would have given her a 2nd minor. Although, she did enter with enough credits from high school to pretty much skip the equivalent of 2 quarters. So those AP classes DO help a whole lot.
November 9, 2010 @ 1:51 PM
SK in CV wrote:. . . And for
[quote=SK in CV]. . . And for what it’s worth, my daughter just graduated from UCSD last June in 4 years. She did get all the classes she needed, and another quarter would have given her a 2nd minor. Although, she did enter with enough credits from high school to pretty much skip the equivalent of 2 quarters. So those AP classes DO help a whole lot.[/quote]
That’s great, SK! My last kid is slated to take several AP classes next year. They have a few other interests as well so I hope they can handle it. I only thought the AP classes gave the student an extra point each (to calculate their GPA). I was not aware that they could also serve to take the place of GE credits necessary for a Bachelor degree!
November 9, 2010 @ 6:52 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
That’s
[quote=bearishgurl]
That’s great, SK! My last kid is slated to take several AP classes next year. They have a few other interests as well so I hope they can handle it. I only thought the AP classes gave the student an extra point each (to calculate their GPA). I was not aware that they could also serve to take the place of GE credits necessary for a Bachelor degree![/quote]
Thanks! My daughter is kind of a freak. Her choice of classes were all hers. Never had to push her. Never got anything but A’s. (She also played varsity sports for 4 years and all kinds of other groups and activities. Like i said, she’s a freak) If I recall correctly, she got credit for AP English, Calc, Bio and Chemistry, so didnt have to take the lower level classes in college.
But my larger point was that despite the over-crowded classes and inability for kids to get classes they need that we hear about in the SU system, the UC system doesn’t seem to have the problem with graduating kids in 4 years IF the kids are motivated and have a fixed target. I suspect changing majors half way through could cause problems even in the UC system. (Fortunately that was never a problem for my daughter, she decided what she wanted to do when she was about 10. She still hasn’t wavered.)
November 9, 2010 @ 9:26 PM
SK in CV wrote:Thanks! My
[quote=SK in CV]Thanks! My daughter is kind of a freak. Her choice of classes were all hers. Never had to push her. Never got anything but A’s. (She also played varsity sports for 4 years and all kinds of other groups and activities. Like i said, she’s a freak) If I recall correctly, she got credit for AP English, Calc, Bio and Chemistry, so didnt have to take the lower level classes in college.
But my larger point was that despite the over-crowded classes and inability for kids to get classes they need that we hear about in the SU system, the UC system doesn’t seem to have the problem with graduating kids in 4 years IF the kids are motivated and have a fixed target. I suspect changing majors half way through could cause problems even in the UC system. (Fortunately that was never a problem for my daughter, she decided what she wanted to do when she was about 10. She still hasn’t wavered.)[/quote]
You hit the nail on the head, right there, SK. Counsel your kids not to waste time, not to change majors, take extraneous “fun” classes, etc. Take college seriously, like their future “career.” It’s not a party-time “laughing matter” anymore. It’s serious business. Get done in four years and GET OUT!! Every quarter or semester you waste trying to “find yourself,” you end up wasting your future hard-earned $$ and also that of your parents precious hard-earned $$ while your costs escalate beyond recognition. If you need to “find yourself,” do everyone a favor and do so BEFORE enrolling in college!
I am in hopes that my youngest will be accepted into a UC campus. We shall see . . .
[end of rant]
November 9, 2010 @ 9:31 PM
maybe the best strategy is to
maybe the best strategy is to try to bury a one ounce gold coin every other month for each child.
November 10, 2010 @ 12:15 AM
I don’t think I agree with
I don’t think I agree with all the get out of college ASAP talk and that grad school is a waste of money, etc etc etc…or that you should go to JC, transfer, etc.
I wrote about this on another thread, but what people should do if they can is think about what profession they want to go into, then decide if college makes the most sense for that profession. Some jobs don’t require any college at all (specifically computer science or starting a company or a franchise). If you want to do electrical, civil or other types of pure engineering, good luck finding ANY job without an engineering degree. Same goes for accounting, etc…
This is true for those wanting to be a doctor, a lawyer, or maybe even a politician since it sounds like a lot of those folks are lawyers as well. Also, having experienced this personally, when you are climbing the corporate ladder, they DO care about folks with MBAs from top schools even though folks on the ground may not.
Law degrees maybe worthless to some folks, but I know plenty of folks who has no trouble finding work as an attorney making a very good living compared to the run of the mill degree/tech job, etc… That’s completely not true for other degrees (me included with my engr degree). I also have family who are self employed dual doctors probably making upwards of 500k/year. Good luck getting ANY chance to make that without medical school.
It sounds great to graduate quickly and work, but having been there, done that, I don’t see the crazy need to rush it since you’ll be working the rest of your life. Also, your youth and mindset in college is really a 1 shot deal. Once you graduate and start working, you simply won’t think the same anymore so enjoy it while it lasts. I would love to be 18 and relive college again if I could.
Of course, this is because I felt college was some of the best years of my life and I really enjoyed starting my freshman year in a 4 year program off the bat. I enjoyed the dorms greatly as well…Of course, it was cheaper back then and hopefully, some folks simply don’t go to college so they lower prices and eliminate those guaranteed loans which has been jacking up the cost.
A lot of a person’s view on this has to do with what you experienced or have seen and it sounds it’s very jaded based on that.
November 10, 2010 @ 1:17 AM
Nice points joec. There’s
Nice points joec. There’s something to be said about one’s personal experiences and projecting them onto your children. I’m guilty of that myself but in the opposite way of most of the posts. Like you, I loved college. I liked the dorms, I liked living in a fraternity house, I liked drinking and chasing girls, sprinkle in clases in between. In the 20+ years since it ended, I miss it. There are things in life I enjoy as a grown up, but those were the glory days, never to be repeated. More of what I learned outside of the classroom made me who I am and has served me better than anything I learned from a textbook. But the testbooks were a neccesary building block, it taught me the method for researching things, basic concepts and exposed me by force to things I’d never discover on my own. I’d say that I wouldn’t have the same experience going to a JC or living at home, but I can’t say that, because I didn’t do that, so I’ll never know. Maybe it would have ended the same way.
I always figured I’d give my kids a similar education and saved for it. I didn’t save for medical school, just enough to cover room, board and tuition for each kid to go to a state school. If they wanted/needed more I’d borrow the difference. One of my kids is getting close to application time, but I’ve come to realize he’s not me, he wants something different. He wants to live at home, go to San Marcos (which I really don’t see as a college town in my mind, it’s like a big JC until they get a football team and fraternities, but that’s my paradigm, not his). I was kind of bothered by it for a while until I read this thread. I see all these people wanting their kid to be responsible, economical, studious and serious. My only hope was that they have the time of their life, come back with all their limbs and nobody gets pregnant or gets anyone pregnant. There may have been a mix up at the hospital I got some engineer’s kid.
But in reverse, I was guilty of the same thing, I wanted them to be like me and they are going to be who they are.
My advice to flu, just save what you can, don’t worry too much about it, you have no idea where life will take them. Don’t map out their life too much, there’s no sense in spending a bunch of money to get your kid a first rate engineering degree if they hate engineering.
Also, do not do this, I just did and this thread made me realize how much I need to take my own advice.
My other kid is definately going off and living at school, that kid was made for college. I spent Saturday trying to talk her into going to Oregon because they are #1 in the BCS right now (my apologies if 80% of you don’t understand what that means). She resisted, complained about the weather, mentioned another school that doesn’t even have a football team. I have a buddy who’s kid goes to an SEC school, he goes to half of the games, he’s having a ball. I told her that if I’m paying out of state tuition and paying to fly out to visit, then I get to go to big time football games. They also have to be in the top 25 of the BCS at some point during the year, if it’s a UC, they have to be in the PAC 10 and if SDSU beats TCU on Saturday, then that becomes an option.
I’m such a jerk
November 10, 2010 @ 3:50 PM
TG think Ohio State. The
TG think Ohio State. The massive alumni connections alone are worth the out-of-state tuition.
Despite the first Rose Bowl since something like 1917 the Bucks still outnumbered the Ducks in Pasadena.
November 10, 2010 @ 4:39 PM
I have to plug Cal Poly here.
I have to plug Cal Poly here.
No better town in California, especially for a college kid. Academically oriented school with across the board high marks. Many programs are regarded much more highly than the UC’s, especially the engineering dept. Its a school that has a very subdued party scene (at least in relation to other public schools).
And it is dirt cheap for instate tuition compared to almost any school of similar academic prowess.
I am an alumni so I am biased. But it is the reason I have the good job prospects that I have. It is the reason for my wife’s going and getting into PA school. She has better job prospects than anyone I know or have heard about.
November 10, 2010 @ 4:44 PM
temeculaguy wrote:N I told
[quote=temeculaguy]N I told her that if I’m paying out of state tuition and paying to fly out to visit, then I get to go to big time football games. They also have to be in the top 25 of the BCS at some point during the year, if it’s a UC, they have to be in the PAC 10 and if SDSU beats TCU on Saturday, then that becomes an option.
[/quote]
TG:
I like your style!!!