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  1. gzz
    August 7, 2019 @ 9:56 AM

    Some rate headlines from
    Some rate headlines from today:

    US 30 year 0.05% away from multi-decade low

    Irish 10 under 0% for the first time

    German 30 year headed for 0, now record low of 0.12%

    Spanish 30 year under 1% for first time

    Dutch 10 year under -.5% for the first time

    Pimco warns US rates could go negative

    I appreciate all the charts!

    The payment index is the most significant IMO and shows the thing buyers care about most is near all time lows, and could actually be breaking them today if the 2019 figure is using 2019 average rates.

    • spdrun
      August 7, 2019 @ 1:13 PM

      A drop in rates doesn’t mean
      A drop in rates doesn’t mean a commensurate drop in payments. 3.75% to 4.5% rate is a 20% delta, but only changes the monthly 30y payment by about 9% (from $463 to $507/mo per $100,000 loan). Plus, recession = lower incomes. That magic 43% DTI for qualified mortgages suddenly starts being an issue.

      Bonus points if we go into recession and we end up with a blue White House and Congress. Cuts to the defense industry, here we come, WHHHOOOOO-WHEEEEEEE! More social programs, fewer ships, less recruitment…

      Think what happened to certain parts of LA and Long Beach in the early 1990s when the aircraft industry started closing down and cutting back due to the Cold War being over.

      • gzz
        August 7, 2019 @ 1:30 PM

        SPD, at 0% a 30 year mortgage
        SPD, at 0% a 30 year mortgage is still $278 a month per 100k.

        The payment decrease from Oct 2018 to today on a common 650k loan is about 600/mo.

        To put it another way, the “buying power” of someone willing to pay 3k a month has gone from $539k to 650k, a 20.5% increase.

        In terms of psychology and momentum, all the bulls from the past 5-10 years who will be doing refis will suddenly see their already profitable investments become more so as they cut their monthly payments.

        Are you opposed to riding the next bubble up on principle? I am a bear at heart, I am net short US equities. But I have shorted enough bubbles the past 15 years to know that another RE bubble is a-brewin’. The last piece to fall into place will be lending standards getting thrown out the window. And the current ultra-low default and delinquency rates on subprime mortgages is how this starts.

      • spdrun
        August 7, 2019 @ 1:46 PM

        The period where the 30y was
        The period where the 30y was above 4.5% was only 2-3 months, which is why I’m calling it a decrease from 4.5% to 3.75%. The delta from 4.5% to 3.75% is more like $286/mo. ($507-$463) * 6.5 = $286

        I’m opposed to a bubble because I want to buy and hold for life, not ride a bubble and worry about when to sell. Buying cheap and collecting staid, boring, monthly rents and being able to kick back and chill off is much more appealing than constantly churning investments (aka work). I’m a boring, retiring personality that way. The more I can just coast my way through life, the better — I don’t have the kind of creativity or drive to be “active.”

        My goal is safety and comfort without being dependent on day-to-day employment, not extreme wealth. Basically, build my own welfare/disability/”guaranteed mincome” program, collect about $50k (inflation adjusted for life) which is enough for an efficiency apartment, a used motorcycle, food if I cook on my own, health insurance, and the occasional trip every year. Beyond that, I don’t actually have any goals, desires, or feelings of purpose other than to roll through life without being bothered or bothering anyone too much.

      • gzz
        August 7, 2019 @ 3:56 PM

        SPD, I am using the 10 year
        SPD, I am using the 10 year treasury rate, which best tracks 30 year mortgages.

        It is down from 3.2 in 10/2018 to 1.7% now.

        So if a mortgage is now 3.75 (sounds right) it was more like 5.25% back at its fall 2018 recent peak.

      • FlyerInHi
        August 10, 2019 @ 3:52 PM

        spdrun wrote:
        My goal is

        [quote=spdrun]

        My goal is safety and comfort without being dependent on day-to-day employment, not extreme wealth. Basically, build my own welfare/disability/”guaranteed mincome” program, collect about $50k (inflation adjusted for life) which is enough for an efficiency apartment, a used motorcycle, food if I cook on my own, health insurance, and the occasional trip every year. Beyond that, I don’t actually have any goals, desires, or feelings of purpose other than to roll through life without being bothered or bothering anyone too much.[/quote]

        Calvin Coolidge was on to something when he observed in 1925 that “the chief business of the American people is business,” adding: “They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world.”

      • spdrun
        August 10, 2019 @ 4:21 PM

        ^^^
        I’m not. I’m just happy

        ^^^

        I’m not. I’m just happy to exist without being bothered or bothering anyone too much. I Am a Rock.

      • Rich Toscano
        August 17, 2019 @ 10:16 AM

        gzz wrote:But I have shorted
        [quote=gzz]But I have shorted enough bubbles the past 15 years to know that another RE bubble is a-brewin’.[/quote]

        I just don’t see it. When you have an epic, economy-ruining bubble in one asset class, you don’t get another bubble in that same asset class. An entire generation of buyers has had the “real estate only goes up” BS beaten out of them. I don’t think we’ll see another RE bubble for a long time.

        Purchase valuations are very high for sure, but that’s really not euphoria or a bubble, it’s a response to very low interest rates. I don’t think it’s a bubble now and I will be very surprised if it becomes one.

        (Although as a homeowner, I’d be quite happy to be proven wrong!)

  2. gzz
    August 7, 2019 @ 1:16 PM

    Chinese buyers in 2015 not
    Chinese buyers in 2015 not only got the normal appreciation local us homeowners enjoyed, but also a 13% additional return due to the rising dollar.

    Mexican and British 2015 buyers got an extra 25% return.

    Canada buyers, an extra 5%

    • spdrun
      August 7, 2019 @ 1:26 PM

      US is seen as less friendly
      US is seen as less friendly to foreign buyers these days and perception matters … the right is a bunch of xenophobic shits; the left is talking about rent control and taxing the hell out of absentee owners… Plus the Chinese themselves are taking measures to prevent capital flight.

      A rising tide lifts all boats. The beauty of anti-globalism and anti-capitalist rhetoric is that it turns the ocean into more of a lake, incapable of lifting nearly as much.

  3. Tone
    August 7, 2019 @ 5:09 PM

    What’s that Chinese proverb
    What’s that Chinese proverb about living in interesting times?

    Thanks for the charts, Rich. Awesome work as always.

  4. gzz
    August 12, 2019 @ 4:13 PM

    Yet another 35-month low on
    Yet another 35-month low on the 10 year, and UBS predicts 1.25% by year end, an all time low that will drive mortgage rates to about 3.0%. 30 year is nearly at an all time low, could break it tomorrow, then look out below.

    Spain and Portugal are about to join the negative rate club, they are now at 0.23 and 0.25.

    Spanish short bonds are already in negative rate land, -.5 for 1 year and -.25 for 5 year.

    • spdrun
      August 12, 2019 @ 5:20 PM

      Money’s rotating from stocks
      Money’s rotating from stocks into bonds… whose 401ks just took a bath in iced piss won’t be so eager to buy homes…

      • FlyerInHi
        August 13, 2019 @ 3:41 PM

        spdrun wrote:Money’s rotating
        [quote=spdrun]Money’s rotating from stocks into bonds… whose 401ks just took a bath in iced piss won’t be so eager to buy homes…[/quote]

        People will need to rent. So investors will make money renting out their properties. Which will cause investors to buy in search of yield.

        In many parts of the country you can still buy apartments below replacement cost. How much do you think replacement is for basic apartments? $150/Sf?

        This is what “the Google” found.
        https://www.proest.com/apartment-building-construction-cost-breakdown/

      • spdrun
        August 13, 2019 @ 5:47 PM

        Um, you can buy most things
        Um, you can buy most things below “new replacement cost.”

  5. Anonymous
    August 16, 2019 @ 8:48 AM

    It varies a lot by
    It varies a lot by area.

    Encinitas and other coastal are way above last bubble prices.

    • Rich Toscano
      August 17, 2019 @ 10:07 AM

      wcvarones wrote:It varies a
      [quote=wcvarones]It varies a lot by area.

      Encinitas and other coastal are way above last bubble prices.[/quote]

      True, that’s a weakness of these aggregate stats for sure. But I do think there is some value in looking at things as a whole. (Breaking it down by area would be very useful too, but I think putting together that data would be very difficult).

      To make a somewhat pedantic point, though – everywhere is now higher than bubble peak prices, in nominal terms. (Or at least, the average is). But nominal prices are not meaningful at all; what matters is how much prices have changed vs. rents and incomes.

      On that measure they are nowhere near the peak, on average. And I very highly doubt that they are anywhere near the peak in any location, including prime coastal areas.

      However, it is definitely true that those areas have held up way better and have higher valuations than the averages I have charted above.

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