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[quote=flu]delete[/quote]

[quote=SD Realtor]I agree flu[/quote]

Apparently even flu might not even agree with whatever it was that he said.

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“Restoring a semblance of equal opportunity — promoting family commitment, educational attainment and economic advancement — will take tremendous effort and creative policy.”

I totally agree with what he’s saying. In fact, that’s what I’ve been saying. Above and in this earlier post on another thread:

[quote=zk]… let’s be realistic about teaching them to make their own way in life. It’s going to be complicated.

Would you be in favor of:

Equally funded schools, regardless of the affluence of the students.
Free (federally paid) parenting classes.
Free life skills classes.
Federally funded information/education campaign to encourage the poor to attend the classes, emphasize education, and generally make their own way.

These are just a few that occur to me off the top of my head. It would take more than just these things, and I’m no expert on it. But obviously you can’t just say, “no more money for you” and expect them to figure it out on their own. They’re poor for a reason. Sure, in some cases it’s laziness or lack of personal initiative. But, in my opinion, more often it’s that they’re stuck in a culture that encourages behavior that results in them being supported by the government, whether it’s via prison, welfare, or other programs. Sure, some of that culture is a result of us giving them money. We fucked up. I think we agree on that.

So let’s fix it. But let’s be realistic about how it can be fixed. It can’t be fixed by just not giving them any more money. Anything that has a shot at working is going to be expensive. It’s going to be controversial (how dare you tell us our culture isn’t as good as yours). It’s going to take a long time. But in the long run, everybody is better off.[/quote]

I’m glad to see that this opinion is being expressed elsewhere.

I’d like to hear other viewpoints on this matter. As I said, I’m no expert on this. But the discussion has to start somewhere.

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[quote=Brutus][quote=Aecetia]Fact-checking Romney’s 47% claim
How many Americans really pay no federal income taxes?

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2012/09/18/n-romney-tax-claim.cnnmoney%5B/quote%5D

So basically, Romney was right.[/quote]

Technically, maybe, depending on how you define “federal income tax.” Social security tax is federal, based on income, and a tax. And more than 53% of Americans pay it. So maybe he was not right.

But obviously the point isn’t whether his number is correct. The point is that he said 47% of Americans consider themselves entitled victims and that these 47% can’t be convinced to take personal responsibility and care for their lives.

The point is that, if he actually believes that, he’s profoundly ignorant and completely out of touch with how 47% of Americans go about their lives.

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[quote=Brutus]

There are relatively few poor people in America that bear no responsibility for their situation.[/quote]

A bit of tricky word play, there, Brutus. Bear “no” responsibility? If you put it like that, sure, most poor people could get an additional job if they wanted. Or they could overpower their lack of decent schools, overcome the culture that frequently pervades the areas they live in, borrow money from the government to go to college, get a degree, and rise above their poverty. But most people aren’t strong enough to do that on their own. As I’ve said in a previous post, I advocate educating them about how to rise above their poverty and giving them better schools. Maybe I advocate that position because I have basic human decency. But for those without basic human decency, I say that if you spend some money now to change the culture that perpetuates poverty and dependency, you will be rewarded in the future by not having to support those people any more. What do you suggest we do about poverty and dependency, Brutus?

[quote=Brutus]The ghetto/trailer-park mentality has only gotten more pervasive, a fact that can be confirmed by watching a few of the most popular TV shows: Toddlers and Tiaras, Jersey Shore, Big Brother, 2 1/2 Idiots, Survivor, or anything on MSNBC. The movie “Idiocracy” is not just funny, it’s prophetic, although by that particular time in the future, no one will remember what the word “prophetic” means.[/quote]

Watching anything on MSNBC confirms that the ghetto/trailer-park mentality has gotten more pervasive? Please explain that.

Also, I believe I’m missing your larger point. I’m not sure what any of those shows have to do with a ghetto/trailer-park mentality or what they have to do with Romney’s comment.

[quote=Brutus]
Yes, many Americans are ignorant (especially when it comes to $$$), and the most ignorant are generally the poorest.[/quote]

How do you think they got this way? And what do you propose we do about it?

[quote=Brutus]
Unless they can get their own reality show, eh, Snooki? Are you listening Octo-mom?[/quote]

I assume that this is an attempt at humor and not what you would propose they do about it.

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[quote=squat250]
it’s just beautifully inept and meanspirited. [/quote]

Truly a rare gem of a gaffe.

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High comedy? Sure. Saying what he was really thinking? I doubt it.

I’d be surprised if he actually believes that 47% of Americans think that they’re victims who are entitled to “you-name-it.” I think he was just toadying up to those who 1) believe everything Rush tells them and 2)have lots of money that they’re willing to give to him.

Rush, Sean, etc. are very fond of these statistics. And so are their followers. So, like any politician, Mitt is playing to the audience in front of him. In this case, people who respond to the right-wing myth that all people who don’t pay federal income tax consider themselves victims who are entitled to support from the government.

I don’t think we’ll ever hear what a politician really thinks. And if we do, he probably won’t go very far. Because most voters don’t want to hear what a politician thinks. Most voters want to hear what they want to hear.

Politicians have no doubt been saying things like this to groups like this for centuries. But with pocket-sized cameras in virtually every room they’ll ever speak in, and especially after this debacle, I doubt the tradition will continue much longer.

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[quote=SD Realtor]Agreed FLU… I almost feel compelled to buy something just because the money is so damn cheap. Looking at another 4plex this weekend out of state.[/quote]

What state are you looking in?

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Very nice, desmond. I’ve been looking for something to replace the camera I took this video with:

Crappy video quality, obviously, but not if you consider the camera cost $20 and weighs 2/3 of an ounce.

Nonetheless, time to move up.

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Daily newspapers.

*scoff*

Soon they’ll join town criers as relics of the past.

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[quote=EconProf]It appears I am way outnumbered in my suggestion for some self-policing by Rich Toscano here, so let’s just be clear about what I am advocating.
First and foremost, it is not censorship, especially of any exchange of real estate related ideas, opinions, and facts. As I remember, that is what most of us come here for.
No, it is such statements as “Obama sucks capital’s cock like a $2 whore”, a statement which got agreement from a few who chimed in. Somehow I don’t understand how this is enlightening or uplifting as I eat my breakfast and look for the latest real estate news.
So while I think Obama’s policies are awful, it is not constructive, or persuasive to others, to use gutter language to make one’s case. Apparently, some on this site who live in that world believe otherwise.[/quote]

Not constructive or persuasive to others? I disagree. The point he was making was pretty obvious, and if your tender sensibilities get in the way of seeing his point, too bad for you.

As far as “mindless” goes, I’d say that to accuse someone of being mindless for no reason other than the fact that you’re offended is far worse than using offensive (to some) language.

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[quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=zk] Censorship is a hallmark of fascism.[/quote]

I sense that Hitler is going to make his appearance on this thread very soon.[/quote]

I believe he just did.

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[quote=EconProf]Agreed Enron.
What started out as a legitimate topic has been brought low by mindless mudslingers, and it hurts the Piggington brand. Perhaps some censorship by Rich Toscano is in order in self-defense.[/quote]

Easy to say, “mindless mudslinging” without actually countering any points that the alleged mudslingers have made.

I’m curious which posts you think are mindless mudslinging and why you think that.

And who are you to say what Rich should or shouldn’t do? Rich traditionally has a pretty long leash, letting posters make their points and not stepping in until they really start abusing the privilege. Censorship that starts as early as you would suggest shows fear. Censorship is a hallmark of fascism.

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[quote=desmond]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj_4vl_H-SI

This is a clip from one of his old shows.[/quote]

Hilarious. “I’m 42” squeal “I’m almost 43.” squeal “I’m older than every baseball player except Jaime Moyer.”

Louie’s “why” clip on youtube is great. Especially if you have kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u2ZsoYWwJA

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[quote=EconProf]ctr70, the original poster of this thread says he leaned left most of his life, then steadily turned to the right politically.
Winston Churchill once said, paraphrasing, if one is young and not liberal, they have no heart. If one is older and not conservative, they have no head.[/quote]

Here are two classics from conservatives defending themselves.

“I used to be a liberal.” WTF does that have to do with anything?

And Churchill’s quote. Just because one famous guy said it doesn’t make it true. You can easily be a conservative with very little brains. I see it all the time.

In any case, if you’re a die-hard, dyed-in-the-wool, agree-with-all-their-points kind of person on either side of the aisle, it’s only because you can’t think for yourself.

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[quote=spdrun]

Give me a Camaro SS any day. For less than the price of a 328i, you get a much faster car. Or a Shelby GT 500.

Meh, I prefer a nicely turboed Miata or MR-2 to American barges.[/quote]

Yup, to each his own. For guys like me who grew up in the ’70s, it’s always been about speed. (Although the intoxicating, manly, deep rumble of a V8 was always important, also.) What your car does the quarter mile in meant more than anything. And it’s been a long time since a relatively affordable production car did the quarter mile in 11.5 seconds. That’s damn fast.

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