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Participant[quote=Rustico] Some individual people,even groups of people, are just better prepared by various kinds of histories, to become extremely addicted to something than others are,but probably without any genetic differences to attribute. Is bulimia/Anorexia genetic because it is largely an American Phenomena?[/quote]
I’m not sure if you’re saying that because bulimia is largely an American phenomenon, it therefore probably has no genetic component. But if you are, that is faulty logic. It’s possible that a certain percentage of the population (taking away race, and counting humans as a whole) are genetically predisposed to bulimia, but only get it if they are exposed to the right (wrong) conditions. And maybe only in America do we have those conditions. So the highest rates would be among those who both have the genetic predisposition and live in America
[quote=Rustico]Belief that it is the ethnicity of the people , without an attempt to debunk with a study of culture/histories can create some self fulfilling prophecy problems that lead to this speculation/confirmation bias with regard to genetics and problem drinking, crack cocaine use or abuse of anything else. Alcoholism depends on weaknesses of all kinds, but the problem drinking is still a symptom not a disease.[/quote]
I don’t think the ethnicity of a person that predisposes a person to alcoholism. (A very large percentage of Oriental people have a gene that doesn’t allow them to metabolize alcohol the way most people do. But I don’t think that predisposes them to alcoholism. In fact, I know 7 or 8 people with that gene, including my wife. And none of them drink very much at all.) But I am fairly certain there is a strong genetic component to alcoholism. I think there’s a genetic component to nearly all things mental, emotional and physical. Anybody with two or more kids can tell you how different they were temperamentally, and how they were that way regardless of environmental influence. Studies of identical twins raised separately reveal astonishing personality similarities despite wildly different upbringings.
If your assertion was that there is no genetic component to alcoholism, then I strongly disagree. In fact, studies have shown not only that there is likely a genetic component, but they have shown which genes contribute.
If you’re saying that certain races aren’t more likely than others to be alcoholics, well, that could go either way. I’m not aware of any studies that have shown one way or the other. But I don’t think it’s impossible.
Saying that there’s a genetic component doesn’t mean that it’s strictly genetic. It’s probably more similar to being shy than it is to eye color. You’re predisposed by your genes to be shy, but you can be moved toward not being shy with the proper upbringing. Whereas if your genes say green eyes, then you have green eyes.
As to whether it’s a disease, well, that depends on what you mean by disease. Is schizophrenia a disease? Can’t the schizo just ignore the voices in his head and not kill his dog? Is anorexia a disease? Just eat something, for god’s sake. Is bipolar disorder a disease? I think people hear “disease” and they think that means it’s something you catch and have no control whatsoever over. But that’s not really what disease means. Sure, the anorexic could eat. But she doesn’t want to. Why doesn’t she? Because she’s mentally ill. She has a disease. Would you argue that? I don’t know if anyone is arguing that alcoholism is a physical disease. But it’s hard to argue that it’s not a mental illness. Who in their right mind drinks until they’ve lost their family, their possessions, their friends, their health, and their will to live?
ParticipantOne more thing you might be able to do. I think I read somewhere that this sometimes has a positive effect.
Some people don’t realize how they behave when they’re drunk. They think, “I had a good time last night.” But what they don’t remember about last night is how drunk they really were or what they did. They don’t realize that they have a problem because they don’t know how drunk they get or how ridiculous they act. So if you videotape their awful behavior and show it to them when they’re sober, sometimes their reaction will be, “holy crap! All I remember was having a good time. I had no idea I turned into a slobbering, staggering, falling-down moron.”
As many here have said, it’s only when the alcoholic really decides to stop that there’s any chance he’ll stop. And sometimes they don’t decide to stop because they really don’t think there’s a problem. Occasionally, seeing that they get way drunker and stupider than they think they do will help them realize that they do have a problem and help them to decide to stop.
ParticipantOne more thing you might be able to do. I think I read somewhere that this sometimes has a positive effect.
Some people don’t realize how they behave when they’re drunk. They think, “I had a good time last night.” But what they don’t remember about last night is how drunk they really were or what they did. They don’t realize that they have a problem because they don’t know how drunk they get or how ridiculous they act. So if you videotape their awful behavior and show it to them when they’re sober, sometimes their reaction will be, “holy crap! All I remember was having a good time. I had no idea I turned into a slobbering, staggering, falling-down moron.”
As many here have said, it’s only when the alcoholic really decides to stop that there’s any chance he’ll stop. And sometimes they don’t decide to stop because they really don’t think there’s a problem. Occasionally, seeing that they get way drunker and stupider than they think they do will help them realize that they do have a problem and help them to decide to stop.
ParticipantOne more thing you might be able to do. I think I read somewhere that this sometimes has a positive effect.
Some people don’t realize how they behave when they’re drunk. They think, “I had a good time last night.” But what they don’t remember about last night is how drunk they really were or what they did. They don’t realize that they have a problem because they don’t know how drunk they get or how ridiculous they act. So if you videotape their awful behavior and show it to them when they’re sober, sometimes their reaction will be, “holy crap! All I remember was having a good time. I had no idea I turned into a slobbering, staggering, falling-down moron.”
As many here have said, it’s only when the alcoholic really decides to stop that there’s any chance he’ll stop. And sometimes they don’t decide to stop because they really don’t think there’s a problem. Occasionally, seeing that they get way drunker and stupider than they think they do will help them realize that they do have a problem and help them to decide to stop.
ParticipantOne more thing you might be able to do. I think I read somewhere that this sometimes has a positive effect.
Some people don’t realize how they behave when they’re drunk. They think, “I had a good time last night.” But what they don’t remember about last night is how drunk they really were or what they did. They don’t realize that they have a problem because they don’t know how drunk they get or how ridiculous they act. So if you videotape their awful behavior and show it to them when they’re sober, sometimes their reaction will be, “holy crap! All I remember was having a good time. I had no idea I turned into a slobbering, staggering, falling-down moron.”
As many here have said, it’s only when the alcoholic really decides to stop that there’s any chance he’ll stop. And sometimes they don’t decide to stop because they really don’t think there’s a problem. Occasionally, seeing that they get way drunker and stupider than they think they do will help them realize that they do have a problem and help them to decide to stop.
ParticipantOne more thing you might be able to do. I think I read somewhere that this sometimes has a positive effect.
Some people don’t realize how they behave when they’re drunk. They think, “I had a good time last night.” But what they don’t remember about last night is how drunk they really were or what they did. They don’t realize that they have a problem because they don’t know how drunk they get or how ridiculous they act. So if you videotape their awful behavior and show it to them when they’re sober, sometimes their reaction will be, “holy crap! All I remember was having a good time. I had no idea I turned into a slobbering, staggering, falling-down moron.”
As many here have said, it’s only when the alcoholic really decides to stop that there’s any chance he’ll stop. And sometimes they don’t decide to stop because they really don’t think there’s a problem. Occasionally, seeing that they get way drunker and stupider than they think they do will help them realize that they do have a problem and help them to decide to stop.
ParticipantWhat knowledge I have about alcoholism comes from having three siblings who are alcoholics. And from the searching and researching what I could do to help them.
Brian, your lack of sympathy seems pretty cold hearted to me. Your attitude belies a misunderstanding of the situation, in my opinion. I don’t think it’s a matter of will power, but even if it is, where do you think you get your will power from? What if you get it from the same place that tall people get their height from? Which is a combination of genes and nourishment (physical nourishment in the case of height, emotional nourishment in the case of will power). Sure, maybe your friend is weak. But how’d he get that way? How do smart people get smart? Should smart people have no sympathy for stupid people? What about ugly people? People who are naturally socially inept? Maybe this is a topic for another thread, because it’s a big topic. But I think it applies here.
Anyway, your attitude, ironically, might help you help him. In my opinion, the only thing you can do to help him is to tell him that when he decides to stop drinking, that, unless he dies first, you’ll do what you can to help him (and then, of course, do it if he decides to stop). Trying to help him now by covering for him in any way or helping him with his bills or cleaning up for him will only delay his trip to rock bottom and prolong his drinking. (Doesn’t sound like you’d do any of that. And maybe a lot of people wouldn’t do that for a friend. When it’s your sibling or your child or parent, it’s more difficult).
ParticipantWhat knowledge I have about alcoholism comes from having three siblings who are alcoholics. And from the searching and researching what I could do to help them.
Brian, your lack of sympathy seems pretty cold hearted to me. Your attitude belies a misunderstanding of the situation, in my opinion. I don’t think it’s a matter of will power, but even if it is, where do you think you get your will power from? What if you get it from the same place that tall people get their height from? Which is a combination of genes and nourishment (physical nourishment in the case of height, emotional nourishment in the case of will power). Sure, maybe your friend is weak. But how’d he get that way? How do smart people get smart? Should smart people have no sympathy for stupid people? What about ugly people? People who are naturally socially inept? Maybe this is a topic for another thread, because it’s a big topic. But I think it applies here.
Anyway, your attitude, ironically, might help you help him. In my opinion, the only thing you can do to help him is to tell him that when he decides to stop drinking, that, unless he dies first, you’ll do what you can to help him (and then, of course, do it if he decides to stop). Trying to help him now by covering for him in any way or helping him with his bills or cleaning up for him will only delay his trip to rock bottom and prolong his drinking. (Doesn’t sound like you’d do any of that. And maybe a lot of people wouldn’t do that for a friend. When it’s your sibling or your child or parent, it’s more difficult).
ParticipantWhat knowledge I have about alcoholism comes from having three siblings who are alcoholics. And from the searching and researching what I could do to help them.
Brian, your lack of sympathy seems pretty cold hearted to me. Your attitude belies a misunderstanding of the situation, in my opinion. I don’t think it’s a matter of will power, but even if it is, where do you think you get your will power from? What if you get it from the same place that tall people get their height from? Which is a combination of genes and nourishment (physical nourishment in the case of height, emotional nourishment in the case of will power). Sure, maybe your friend is weak. But how’d he get that way? How do smart people get smart? Should smart people have no sympathy for stupid people? What about ugly people? People who are naturally socially inept? Maybe this is a topic for another thread, because it’s a big topic. But I think it applies here.
Anyway, your attitude, ironically, might help you help him. In my opinion, the only thing you can do to help him is to tell him that when he decides to stop drinking, that, unless he dies first, you’ll do what you can to help him (and then, of course, do it if he decides to stop). Trying to help him now by covering for him in any way or helping him with his bills or cleaning up for him will only delay his trip to rock bottom and prolong his drinking. (Doesn’t sound like you’d do any of that. And maybe a lot of people wouldn’t do that for a friend. When it’s your sibling or your child or parent, it’s more difficult).
ParticipantWhat knowledge I have about alcoholism comes from having three siblings who are alcoholics. And from the searching and researching what I could do to help them.
Brian, your lack of sympathy seems pretty cold hearted to me. Your attitude belies a misunderstanding of the situation, in my opinion. I don’t think it’s a matter of will power, but even if it is, where do you think you get your will power from? What if you get it from the same place that tall people get their height from? Which is a combination of genes and nourishment (physical nourishment in the case of height, emotional nourishment in the case of will power). Sure, maybe your friend is weak. But how’d he get that way? How do smart people get smart? Should smart people have no sympathy for stupid people? What about ugly people? People who are naturally socially inept? Maybe this is a topic for another thread, because it’s a big topic. But I think it applies here.
Anyway, your attitude, ironically, might help you help him. In my opinion, the only thing you can do to help him is to tell him that when he decides to stop drinking, that, unless he dies first, you’ll do what you can to help him (and then, of course, do it if he decides to stop). Trying to help him now by covering for him in any way or helping him with his bills or cleaning up for him will only delay his trip to rock bottom and prolong his drinking. (Doesn’t sound like you’d do any of that. And maybe a lot of people wouldn’t do that for a friend. When it’s your sibling or your child or parent, it’s more difficult).
ParticipantWhat knowledge I have about alcoholism comes from having three siblings who are alcoholics. And from the searching and researching what I could do to help them.
Brian, your lack of sympathy seems pretty cold hearted to me. Your attitude belies a misunderstanding of the situation, in my opinion. I don’t think it’s a matter of will power, but even if it is, where do you think you get your will power from? What if you get it from the same place that tall people get their height from? Which is a combination of genes and nourishment (physical nourishment in the case of height, emotional nourishment in the case of will power). Sure, maybe your friend is weak. But how’d he get that way? How do smart people get smart? Should smart people have no sympathy for stupid people? What about ugly people? People who are naturally socially inept? Maybe this is a topic for another thread, because it’s a big topic. But I think it applies here.
Anyway, your attitude, ironically, might help you help him. In my opinion, the only thing you can do to help him is to tell him that when he decides to stop drinking, that, unless he dies first, you’ll do what you can to help him (and then, of course, do it if he decides to stop). Trying to help him now by covering for him in any way or helping him with his bills or cleaning up for him will only delay his trip to rock bottom and prolong his drinking. (Doesn’t sound like you’d do any of that. And maybe a lot of people wouldn’t do that for a friend. When it’s your sibling or your child or parent, it’s more difficult).
Participant[quote=afx114]It’s obvious to me why we need to be bombing Libya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDS81Ibazdk[/quote]
I’d been searching far and wide for a reason why we should be attacking Libya. That reason seems as good as any I’ve heard so far. Hilarious.
Participant[quote=afx114]It’s obvious to me why we need to be bombing Libya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDS81Ibazdk[/quote]
I’d been searching far and wide for a reason why we should be attacking Libya. That reason seems as good as any I’ve heard so far. Hilarious.
Participant[quote=afx114]It’s obvious to me why we need to be bombing Libya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDS81Ibazdk[/quote]
I’d been searching far and wide for a reason why we should be attacking Libya. That reason seems as good as any I’ve heard so far. Hilarious.
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