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XBoxBoy
ParticipantMatt, one last comment.
Don’t take any of my comments as saying you have to have a realtor. I’m just saying that going without a realtor isn’t going to be as easy and productive as many people make it sound. It’s up to you to decide which route you are most comfortable with.
Heck when I started looking I even looked into getting my own RE license just so I could handle it myself.
Here’s the old thread.
http://piggington.com/getting_re_license_for_myselfParticipantMatt, one last comment.
Don’t take any of my comments as saying you have to have a realtor. I’m just saying that going without a realtor isn’t going to be as easy and productive as many people make it sound. It’s up to you to decide which route you are most comfortable with.
Heck when I started looking I even looked into getting my own RE license just so I could handle it myself.
Here’s the old thread.
http://piggington.com/getting_re_license_for_myselfParticipant[quote=matt-waiting]
Someone please tell me of an example of where they would have lost $ if they didn’t have a buyer’s agent.[/quote]Matt, I think these examples are many and varied, but all fall under the category of an unrepresented buyer not having the knowledge of some detail.
This is just a small example, but an example of what I think the risks are. I bought a house about twelve years ago. The house was priced attractively, and the market was heating up in the area I was looking, and because the seller’s were confident they could get another offer if mine feel through, when accepting my offer I was told, “feel free to do an inspection, but the seller’s aren’t going to fix much of anything.” (The house was in pretty good condition and had already been checked for termites) During the inspection it was found that the heater didn’t work.
Now, without an agent would you have known the repercussions of this? What would you have done?
Turns out a furnace not working is a big deal. You can’t get a loan on the house without a working furnace. My agent knew this, and was able to demand that the heater be replaced before I bought the house. After all, the heater was going to have to be replaced prior to a sale regardless of who the buyer was. (With the exception of an all cash buyer. Something that was not common in this neighborhood at the time)
Now, is that a big deal? It saved me a good bit of headache and maybe a grand or two. Not a huge deal, not some horrible risk. But this is a very real example that happened to me.
I’m not experienced enough to give you a really big loss that you might incur, although if there is something fishy with the title would you know?
As another example, suppose you wanted to build or remodel. Your buyer’s agent might be able to warn you about problems that would be unique to the property. (Whether they would or not if they knew or if they would even be educated enough to know would depend on the quality of the agent)But the bottom line to this is you assume some risks representing yourself. In most cases those risks are small. In a very few cases, those risks are larger, maybe even very large. A buyer’s agent might help avoid some of those risks, and in worst case scenario it would at least give you someone to sue to try and recoup losses.
But for me, the real issue is that more than likely as an unrepresented buyer, one of two scenarios is going to hold true.
1) The listing agent isn’t going to get extra commission, but will get extra work, so they don’t want your offer to be accepted. They will discourage the seller from taking your offer.
2) The listing agent is going to get the extra commission, so will encourage your offer to be accepted. Fine, except you have gained nothing and lost the chance to have someone represent you.Unfortunately, you won’t know which of the two scenarios is gonna be true until it’s too late.
But as sdrealtor says, best of luck to you.
XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=matt-waiting]
Someone please tell me of an example of where they would have lost $ if they didn’t have a buyer’s agent.[/quote]Matt, I think these examples are many and varied, but all fall under the category of an unrepresented buyer not having the knowledge of some detail.
This is just a small example, but an example of what I think the risks are. I bought a house about twelve years ago. The house was priced attractively, and the market was heating up in the area I was looking, and because the seller’s were confident they could get another offer if mine feel through, when accepting my offer I was told, “feel free to do an inspection, but the seller’s aren’t going to fix much of anything.” (The house was in pretty good condition and had already been checked for termites) During the inspection it was found that the heater didn’t work.
Now, without an agent would you have known the repercussions of this? What would you have done?
Turns out a furnace not working is a big deal. You can’t get a loan on the house without a working furnace. My agent knew this, and was able to demand that the heater be replaced before I bought the house. After all, the heater was going to have to be replaced prior to a sale regardless of who the buyer was. (With the exception of an all cash buyer. Something that was not common in this neighborhood at the time)
Now, is that a big deal? It saved me a good bit of headache and maybe a grand or two. Not a huge deal, not some horrible risk. But this is a very real example that happened to me.
I’m not experienced enough to give you a really big loss that you might incur, although if there is something fishy with the title would you know?
As another example, suppose you wanted to build or remodel. Your buyer’s agent might be able to warn you about problems that would be unique to the property. (Whether they would or not if they knew or if they would even be educated enough to know would depend on the quality of the agent)But the bottom line to this is you assume some risks representing yourself. In most cases those risks are small. In a very few cases, those risks are larger, maybe even very large. A buyer’s agent might help avoid some of those risks, and in worst case scenario it would at least give you someone to sue to try and recoup losses.
But for me, the real issue is that more than likely as an unrepresented buyer, one of two scenarios is going to hold true.
1) The listing agent isn’t going to get extra commission, but will get extra work, so they don’t want your offer to be accepted. They will discourage the seller from taking your offer.
2) The listing agent is going to get the extra commission, so will encourage your offer to be accepted. Fine, except you have gained nothing and lost the chance to have someone represent you.Unfortunately, you won’t know which of the two scenarios is gonna be true until it’s too late.
But as sdrealtor says, best of luck to you.
XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=matt-waiting]
Someone please tell me of an example of where they would have lost $ if they didn’t have a buyer’s agent.[/quote]Matt, I think these examples are many and varied, but all fall under the category of an unrepresented buyer not having the knowledge of some detail.
This is just a small example, but an example of what I think the risks are. I bought a house about twelve years ago. The house was priced attractively, and the market was heating up in the area I was looking, and because the seller’s were confident they could get another offer if mine feel through, when accepting my offer I was told, “feel free to do an inspection, but the seller’s aren’t going to fix much of anything.” (The house was in pretty good condition and had already been checked for termites) During the inspection it was found that the heater didn’t work.
Now, without an agent would you have known the repercussions of this? What would you have done?
Turns out a furnace not working is a big deal. You can’t get a loan on the house without a working furnace. My agent knew this, and was able to demand that the heater be replaced before I bought the house. After all, the heater was going to have to be replaced prior to a sale regardless of who the buyer was. (With the exception of an all cash buyer. Something that was not common in this neighborhood at the time)
Now, is that a big deal? It saved me a good bit of headache and maybe a grand or two. Not a huge deal, not some horrible risk. But this is a very real example that happened to me.
I’m not experienced enough to give you a really big loss that you might incur, although if there is something fishy with the title would you know?
As another example, suppose you wanted to build or remodel. Your buyer’s agent might be able to warn you about problems that would be unique to the property. (Whether they would or not if they knew or if they would even be educated enough to know would depend on the quality of the agent)But the bottom line to this is you assume some risks representing yourself. In most cases those risks are small. In a very few cases, those risks are larger, maybe even very large. A buyer’s agent might help avoid some of those risks, and in worst case scenario it would at least give you someone to sue to try and recoup losses.
But for me, the real issue is that more than likely as an unrepresented buyer, one of two scenarios is going to hold true.
1) The listing agent isn’t going to get extra commission, but will get extra work, so they don’t want your offer to be accepted. They will discourage the seller from taking your offer.
2) The listing agent is going to get the extra commission, so will encourage your offer to be accepted. Fine, except you have gained nothing and lost the chance to have someone represent you.Unfortunately, you won’t know which of the two scenarios is gonna be true until it’s too late.
But as sdrealtor says, best of luck to you.
XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=matt-waiting]
Someone please tell me of an example of where they would have lost $ if they didn’t have a buyer’s agent.[/quote]Matt, I think these examples are many and varied, but all fall under the category of an unrepresented buyer not having the knowledge of some detail.
This is just a small example, but an example of what I think the risks are. I bought a house about twelve years ago. The house was priced attractively, and the market was heating up in the area I was looking, and because the seller’s were confident they could get another offer if mine feel through, when accepting my offer I was told, “feel free to do an inspection, but the seller’s aren’t going to fix much of anything.” (The house was in pretty good condition and had already been checked for termites) During the inspection it was found that the heater didn’t work.
Now, without an agent would you have known the repercussions of this? What would you have done?
Turns out a furnace not working is a big deal. You can’t get a loan on the house without a working furnace. My agent knew this, and was able to demand that the heater be replaced before I bought the house. After all, the heater was going to have to be replaced prior to a sale regardless of who the buyer was. (With the exception of an all cash buyer. Something that was not common in this neighborhood at the time)
Now, is that a big deal? It saved me a good bit of headache and maybe a grand or two. Not a huge deal, not some horrible risk. But this is a very real example that happened to me.
I’m not experienced enough to give you a really big loss that you might incur, although if there is something fishy with the title would you know?
As another example, suppose you wanted to build or remodel. Your buyer’s agent might be able to warn you about problems that would be unique to the property. (Whether they would or not if they knew or if they would even be educated enough to know would depend on the quality of the agent)But the bottom line to this is you assume some risks representing yourself. In most cases those risks are small. In a very few cases, those risks are larger, maybe even very large. A buyer’s agent might help avoid some of those risks, and in worst case scenario it would at least give you someone to sue to try and recoup losses.
But for me, the real issue is that more than likely as an unrepresented buyer, one of two scenarios is going to hold true.
1) The listing agent isn’t going to get extra commission, but will get extra work, so they don’t want your offer to be accepted. They will discourage the seller from taking your offer.
2) The listing agent is going to get the extra commission, so will encourage your offer to be accepted. Fine, except you have gained nothing and lost the chance to have someone represent you.Unfortunately, you won’t know which of the two scenarios is gonna be true until it’s too late.
But as sdrealtor says, best of luck to you.
XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=matt-waiting]
Someone please tell me of an example of where they would have lost $ if they didn’t have a buyer’s agent.[/quote]Matt, I think these examples are many and varied, but all fall under the category of an unrepresented buyer not having the knowledge of some detail.
This is just a small example, but an example of what I think the risks are. I bought a house about twelve years ago. The house was priced attractively, and the market was heating up in the area I was looking, and because the seller’s were confident they could get another offer if mine feel through, when accepting my offer I was told, “feel free to do an inspection, but the seller’s aren’t going to fix much of anything.” (The house was in pretty good condition and had already been checked for termites) During the inspection it was found that the heater didn’t work.
Now, without an agent would you have known the repercussions of this? What would you have done?
Turns out a furnace not working is a big deal. You can’t get a loan on the house without a working furnace. My agent knew this, and was able to demand that the heater be replaced before I bought the house. After all, the heater was going to have to be replaced prior to a sale regardless of who the buyer was. (With the exception of an all cash buyer. Something that was not common in this neighborhood at the time)
Now, is that a big deal? It saved me a good bit of headache and maybe a grand or two. Not a huge deal, not some horrible risk. But this is a very real example that happened to me.
I’m not experienced enough to give you a really big loss that you might incur, although if there is something fishy with the title would you know?
As another example, suppose you wanted to build or remodel. Your buyer’s agent might be able to warn you about problems that would be unique to the property. (Whether they would or not if they knew or if they would even be educated enough to know would depend on the quality of the agent)But the bottom line to this is you assume some risks representing yourself. In most cases those risks are small. In a very few cases, those risks are larger, maybe even very large. A buyer’s agent might help avoid some of those risks, and in worst case scenario it would at least give you someone to sue to try and recoup losses.
But for me, the real issue is that more than likely as an unrepresented buyer, one of two scenarios is going to hold true.
1) The listing agent isn’t going to get extra commission, but will get extra work, so they don’t want your offer to be accepted. They will discourage the seller from taking your offer.
2) The listing agent is going to get the extra commission, so will encourage your offer to be accepted. Fine, except you have gained nothing and lost the chance to have someone represent you.Unfortunately, you won’t know which of the two scenarios is gonna be true until it’s too late.
But as sdrealtor says, best of luck to you.
XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=matt-waiting]Because you have a fiduciary duty to your client and if a buyer who was offering more money meant that you did more work, I would say you are obligated to do it.[/quote]
Bwwaaahhahahahahahahahha…..
Ummmm…. sorry to burst your bubble, but no way am I gonna agree that most listing agents are gonna do anything because they have a fiduciary duty. And if you’ve got the idea that they are gonna do it out of fiduciary duty, then I think you’re gonna get taken as the sucker in this transaction. (Nothing personal mind you, I just think you need a definite wake up call regarding the ethics of real estate transactions)
Look Matt, I’m not a realtor and I’m not defending them. And like you, I thought about going it alone when I first went looking. Under some circumstances I’d say it’s doable. But in most cases you gain very little in exchange for increasing risks. Also, depending on your market and your realtor the realtor might be able to actually give you an advantage in the search, negotiation, and closing process. (Your agent can also screw you, but that’s another thread altogether) And that’s not to say that the buyer’s agent is worth the 2-3%, merely that the system is what it is, and part of that system is to cause pain to those who fail to play along.
just my 2cents worth.
XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=matt-waiting]Because you have a fiduciary duty to your client and if a buyer who was offering more money meant that you did more work, I would say you are obligated to do it.[/quote]
Bwwaaahhahahahahahahahha…..
Ummmm…. sorry to burst your bubble, but no way am I gonna agree that most listing agents are gonna do anything because they have a fiduciary duty. And if you’ve got the idea that they are gonna do it out of fiduciary duty, then I think you’re gonna get taken as the sucker in this transaction. (Nothing personal mind you, I just think you need a definite wake up call regarding the ethics of real estate transactions)
Look Matt, I’m not a realtor and I’m not defending them. And like you, I thought about going it alone when I first went looking. Under some circumstances I’d say it’s doable. But in most cases you gain very little in exchange for increasing risks. Also, depending on your market and your realtor the realtor might be able to actually give you an advantage in the search, negotiation, and closing process. (Your agent can also screw you, but that’s another thread altogether) And that’s not to say that the buyer’s agent is worth the 2-3%, merely that the system is what it is, and part of that system is to cause pain to those who fail to play along.
just my 2cents worth.
XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=matt-waiting]Because you have a fiduciary duty to your client and if a buyer who was offering more money meant that you did more work, I would say you are obligated to do it.[/quote]
Bwwaaahhahahahahahahahha…..
Ummmm…. sorry to burst your bubble, but no way am I gonna agree that most listing agents are gonna do anything because they have a fiduciary duty. And if you’ve got the idea that they are gonna do it out of fiduciary duty, then I think you’re gonna get taken as the sucker in this transaction. (Nothing personal mind you, I just think you need a definite wake up call regarding the ethics of real estate transactions)
Look Matt, I’m not a realtor and I’m not defending them. And like you, I thought about going it alone when I first went looking. Under some circumstances I’d say it’s doable. But in most cases you gain very little in exchange for increasing risks. Also, depending on your market and your realtor the realtor might be able to actually give you an advantage in the search, negotiation, and closing process. (Your agent can also screw you, but that’s another thread altogether) And that’s not to say that the buyer’s agent is worth the 2-3%, merely that the system is what it is, and part of that system is to cause pain to those who fail to play along.
just my 2cents worth.
XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=matt-waiting]Because you have a fiduciary duty to your client and if a buyer who was offering more money meant that you did more work, I would say you are obligated to do it.[/quote]
Bwwaaahhahahahahahahahha…..
Ummmm…. sorry to burst your bubble, but no way am I gonna agree that most listing agents are gonna do anything because they have a fiduciary duty. And if you’ve got the idea that they are gonna do it out of fiduciary duty, then I think you’re gonna get taken as the sucker in this transaction. (Nothing personal mind you, I just think you need a definite wake up call regarding the ethics of real estate transactions)
Look Matt, I’m not a realtor and I’m not defending them. And like you, I thought about going it alone when I first went looking. Under some circumstances I’d say it’s doable. But in most cases you gain very little in exchange for increasing risks. Also, depending on your market and your realtor the realtor might be able to actually give you an advantage in the search, negotiation, and closing process. (Your agent can also screw you, but that’s another thread altogether) And that’s not to say that the buyer’s agent is worth the 2-3%, merely that the system is what it is, and part of that system is to cause pain to those who fail to play along.
just my 2cents worth.
XBoxBoy
Participant[quote=matt-waiting]Because you have a fiduciary duty to your client and if a buyer who was offering more money meant that you did more work, I would say you are obligated to do it.[/quote]
Bwwaaahhahahahahahahahha…..
Ummmm…. sorry to burst your bubble, but no way am I gonna agree that most listing agents are gonna do anything because they have a fiduciary duty. And if you’ve got the idea that they are gonna do it out of fiduciary duty, then I think you’re gonna get taken as the sucker in this transaction. (Nothing personal mind you, I just think you need a definite wake up call regarding the ethics of real estate transactions)
Look Matt, I’m not a realtor and I’m not defending them. And like you, I thought about going it alone when I first went looking. Under some circumstances I’d say it’s doable. But in most cases you gain very little in exchange for increasing risks. Also, depending on your market and your realtor the realtor might be able to actually give you an advantage in the search, negotiation, and closing process. (Your agent can also screw you, but that’s another thread altogether) And that’s not to say that the buyer’s agent is worth the 2-3%, merely that the system is what it is, and part of that system is to cause pain to those who fail to play along.
just my 2cents worth.
XBoxBoy
ParticipantThis has been covered in a number of past threads, so you might want to do some searching.
But here’s a couple things to think about.
1) There’s almost no way the seller will get the 3% that would have gone to your agent. In most cases the listing agent gets the commission and isn’t likely to give much if any to you for not having an agent of your own.
2) You can always use a discount brokerage which will rebate some (not all) of the buyer’s agents commission back to you. (There are reasons for and against this, I’ll leave it to you to read up on it)
3) You should probably only try to go it alone if you are fairly knowledgeable about real estate transactions. It’s not rocket science, but you need to know how the process works and how to protect yourself and what to do if there are issues during escrow.
4) Depending on the price and details of the purchase, (is it an REO, short sale, or regular sale) using the listing agent as your agent might impact whether you get the house, or someone else does. But if you read various threads on this site, you’ll see this can cut both ways.
IMHO, bottom line to this is that it isn’t as simple as some make it out to be, (although it’s not impossible) there are definite issues and risks and it is not usually a benefit to the buyer to go without an agent.
To answer your last question: Because the realtors have a really good lock on the system, and there aren’t many good ways to get past it.
Hope that helps some,
XBoxBoy
ParticipantThis has been covered in a number of past threads, so you might want to do some searching.
But here’s a couple things to think about.
1) There’s almost no way the seller will get the 3% that would have gone to your agent. In most cases the listing agent gets the commission and isn’t likely to give much if any to you for not having an agent of your own.
2) You can always use a discount brokerage which will rebate some (not all) of the buyer’s agents commission back to you. (There are reasons for and against this, I’ll leave it to you to read up on it)
3) You should probably only try to go it alone if you are fairly knowledgeable about real estate transactions. It’s not rocket science, but you need to know how the process works and how to protect yourself and what to do if there are issues during escrow.
4) Depending on the price and details of the purchase, (is it an REO, short sale, or regular sale) using the listing agent as your agent might impact whether you get the house, or someone else does. But if you read various threads on this site, you’ll see this can cut both ways.
IMHO, bottom line to this is that it isn’t as simple as some make it out to be, (although it’s not impossible) there are definite issues and risks and it is not usually a benefit to the buyer to go without an agent.
To answer your last question: Because the realtors have a really good lock on the system, and there aren’t many good ways to get past it.
Hope that helps some,
XBoxBoy
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