[UCGal]

[quote=LesBaer45]
In this thread I’ve seen no discussion around the possibility that all these “re-financiers” get dropped to a 4% loan, and then instead of spending the money on mass consumption (stimulating) they instead keep paying the same payment and pay down/off their mortgage ASAP?

Yes, yes, I get the ‘can’t change human nature to spend see sdr new car’ bit, but maybe being that close to the edge for so long changed a majority of them into wanting out of the whole debt trap thing and actually owning the house. If they are so far underwater and simply want out, then they should have strategic defaulted a long time ago.

Assuming this is worked out and placed into production, I’m thinking it might not have the effect they are looking for.[/quote]

It’s what I did when I re-fi’d a while back. Actually – even worse… I upped my payment to pay it off even sooner. (Only a few years left. Woot woot.)

Clearly, I must hate America.

[UCGal]

[quote=LesBaer45]
In this thread I’ve seen no discussion around the possibility that all these “re-financiers” get dropped to a 4% loan, and then instead of spending the money on mass consumption (stimulating) they instead keep paying the same payment and pay down/off their mortgage ASAP?

Yes, yes, I get the ‘can’t change human nature to spend see sdr new car’ bit, but maybe being that close to the edge for so long changed a majority of them into wanting out of the whole debt trap thing and actually owning the house. If they are so far underwater and simply want out, then they should have strategic defaulted a long time ago.

Assuming this is worked out and placed into production, I’m thinking it might not have the effect they are looking for.[/quote]

It’s what I did when I re-fi’d a while back. Actually – even worse… I upped my payment to pay it off even sooner. (Only a few years left. Woot woot.)

Clearly, I must hate America.

[UCGal]

[quote=LesBaer45]
In this thread I’ve seen no discussion around the possibility that all these “re-financiers” get dropped to a 4% loan, and then instead of spending the money on mass consumption (stimulating) they instead keep paying the same payment and pay down/off their mortgage ASAP?

Yes, yes, I get the ‘can’t change human nature to spend see sdr new car’ bit, but maybe being that close to the edge for so long changed a majority of them into wanting out of the whole debt trap thing and actually owning the house. If they are so far underwater and simply want out, then they should have strategic defaulted a long time ago.

Assuming this is worked out and placed into production, I’m thinking it might not have the effect they are looking for.[/quote]

It’s what I did when I re-fi’d a while back. Actually – even worse… I upped my payment to pay it off even sooner. (Only a few years left. Woot woot.)

Clearly, I must hate America.

[UCGal]

I can relate to your desire to retire and spend more time with your family and pursuing interests not related to making money. I’ve been running the numbers regularly for a similar goal.

Difference is that I’m 10 years older, have my house *almost* paid off, and have more of a nest egg. My net worth is somewhat of a myth because a large chunk of the “net worth” is my house – and you can’t spend a house. But on paper, my net worth looks good.

I use the quicken planning tools to “what-if”. I run the numbers obsessively. I can’t figure out a way to work unless I can figure out a cheaper option for healthcare… Insurance is the budget killer. My husband has just over 5 years till medicare age, I have just over 15. We have kids that have 8-10 years till they start college – so we have to insure them for the long haul too.

I’ve got an option most don’t have… My husband and kids are in process of being recognized as dual Italian citizens… and some (not all) of the southern regions let you buy into the national healthcare for a very low amount ($1200/year vs per month). But as most of us know… Italy (and the other PIIGS countries) isn’t in the best fiscal shape… so I don’t feel confident banking on that solution to the budget busting healthcare.

I strongly suggest you get a good comprehensive tool and forecast various scenarios. Forecast what happens in down markets. Forecast what happens if insurance goes up to much. Forecast college costs for your kids. Forecast what happens if inflation happens bigtime.

For me – I need to have the house paid off and close to 2M in various savings/investments. With the market fluctuations of the past couple of years… I may have to up that number… I’m not comfortable with the idea of running out of money before I die.

My maternal grandfather retired at 55. They thought his pension and soc.sec. would be more than enough. 6 years later, my grandmother had to take a job as a “shop girl” for a downtown La Jolla gift shop… Anyone who remembers the 70’s remembers the inflation…. and how people on fixed incomes were hit hard.

Keep the dream – but run the numbers and save aggressively.

[UCGal]

I can relate to your desire to retire and spend more time with your family and pursuing interests not related to making money. I’ve been running the numbers regularly for a similar goal.

Difference is that I’m 10 years older, have my house *almost* paid off, and have more of a nest egg. My net worth is somewhat of a myth because a large chunk of the “net worth” is my house – and you can’t spend a house. But on paper, my net worth looks good.

I use the quicken planning tools to “what-if”. I run the numbers obsessively. I can’t figure out a way to work unless I can figure out a cheaper option for healthcare… Insurance is the budget killer. My husband has just over 5 years till medicare age, I have just over 15. We have kids that have 8-10 years till they start college – so we have to insure them for the long haul too.

I’ve got an option most don’t have… My husband and kids are in process of being recognized as dual Italian citizens… and some (not all) of the southern regions let you buy into the national healthcare for a very low amount ($1200/year vs per month). But as most of us know… Italy (and the other PIIGS countries) isn’t in the best fiscal shape… so I don’t feel confident banking on that solution to the budget busting healthcare.

I strongly suggest you get a good comprehensive tool and forecast various scenarios. Forecast what happens in down markets. Forecast what happens if insurance goes up to much. Forecast college costs for your kids. Forecast what happens if inflation happens bigtime.

For me – I need to have the house paid off and close to 2M in various savings/investments. With the market fluctuations of the past couple of years… I may have to up that number… I’m not comfortable with the idea of running out of money before I die.

My maternal grandfather retired at 55. They thought his pension and soc.sec. would be more than enough. 6 years later, my grandmother had to take a job as a “shop girl” for a downtown La Jolla gift shop… Anyone who remembers the 70’s remembers the inflation…. and how people on fixed incomes were hit hard.

Keep the dream – but run the numbers and save aggressively.

[UCGal]

I can relate to your desire to retire and spend more time with your family and pursuing interests not related to making money. I’ve been running the numbers regularly for a similar goal.

Difference is that I’m 10 years older, have my house *almost* paid off, and have more of a nest egg. My net worth is somewhat of a myth because a large chunk of the “net worth” is my house – and you can’t spend a house. But on paper, my net worth looks good.

I use the quicken planning tools to “what-if”. I run the numbers obsessively. I can’t figure out a way to work unless I can figure out a cheaper option for healthcare… Insurance is the budget killer. My husband has just over 5 years till medicare age, I have just over 15. We have kids that have 8-10 years till they start college – so we have to insure them for the long haul too.

I’ve got an option most don’t have… My husband and kids are in process of being recognized as dual Italian citizens… and some (not all) of the southern regions let you buy into the national healthcare for a very low amount ($1200/year vs per month). But as most of us know… Italy (and the other PIIGS countries) isn’t in the best fiscal shape… so I don’t feel confident banking on that solution to the budget busting healthcare.

I strongly suggest you get a good comprehensive tool and forecast various scenarios. Forecast what happens in down markets. Forecast what happens if insurance goes up to much. Forecast college costs for your kids. Forecast what happens if inflation happens bigtime.

For me – I need to have the house paid off and close to 2M in various savings/investments. With the market fluctuations of the past couple of years… I may have to up that number… I’m not comfortable with the idea of running out of money before I die.

My maternal grandfather retired at 55. They thought his pension and soc.sec. would be more than enough. 6 years later, my grandmother had to take a job as a “shop girl” for a downtown La Jolla gift shop… Anyone who remembers the 70’s remembers the inflation…. and how people on fixed incomes were hit hard.

Keep the dream – but run the numbers and save aggressively.

[UCGal]

I can relate to your desire to retire and spend more time with your family and pursuing interests not related to making money. I’ve been running the numbers regularly for a similar goal.

Difference is that I’m 10 years older, have my house *almost* paid off, and have more of a nest egg. My net worth is somewhat of a myth because a large chunk of the “net worth” is my house – and you can’t spend a house. But on paper, my net worth looks good.

I use the quicken planning tools to “what-if”. I run the numbers obsessively. I can’t figure out a way to work unless I can figure out a cheaper option for healthcare… Insurance is the budget killer. My husband has just over 5 years till medicare age, I have just over 15. We have kids that have 8-10 years till they start college – so we have to insure them for the long haul too.

I’ve got an option most don’t have… My husband and kids are in process of being recognized as dual Italian citizens… and some (not all) of the southern regions let you buy into the national healthcare for a very low amount ($1200/year vs per month). But as most of us know… Italy (and the other PIIGS countries) isn’t in the best fiscal shape… so I don’t feel confident banking on that solution to the budget busting healthcare.

I strongly suggest you get a good comprehensive tool and forecast various scenarios. Forecast what happens in down markets. Forecast what happens if insurance goes up to much. Forecast college costs for your kids. Forecast what happens if inflation happens bigtime.

For me – I need to have the house paid off and close to 2M in various savings/investments. With the market fluctuations of the past couple of years… I may have to up that number… I’m not comfortable with the idea of running out of money before I die.

My maternal grandfather retired at 55. They thought his pension and soc.sec. would be more than enough. 6 years later, my grandmother had to take a job as a “shop girl” for a downtown La Jolla gift shop… Anyone who remembers the 70’s remembers the inflation…. and how people on fixed incomes were hit hard.

Keep the dream – but run the numbers and save aggressively.

[UCGal]

I can relate to your desire to retire and spend more time with your family and pursuing interests not related to making money. I’ve been running the numbers regularly for a similar goal.

Difference is that I’m 10 years older, have my house *almost* paid off, and have more of a nest egg. My net worth is somewhat of a myth because a large chunk of the “net worth” is my house – and you can’t spend a house. But on paper, my net worth looks good.

I use the quicken planning tools to “what-if”. I run the numbers obsessively. I can’t figure out a way to work unless I can figure out a cheaper option for healthcare… Insurance is the budget killer. My husband has just over 5 years till medicare age, I have just over 15. We have kids that have 8-10 years till they start college – so we have to insure them for the long haul too.

I’ve got an option most don’t have… My husband and kids are in process of being recognized as dual Italian citizens… and some (not all) of the southern regions let you buy into the national healthcare for a very low amount ($1200/year vs per month). But as most of us know… Italy (and the other PIIGS countries) isn’t in the best fiscal shape… so I don’t feel confident banking on that solution to the budget busting healthcare.

I strongly suggest you get a good comprehensive tool and forecast various scenarios. Forecast what happens in down markets. Forecast what happens if insurance goes up to much. Forecast college costs for your kids. Forecast what happens if inflation happens bigtime.

For me – I need to have the house paid off and close to 2M in various savings/investments. With the market fluctuations of the past couple of years… I may have to up that number… I’m not comfortable with the idea of running out of money before I die.

My maternal grandfather retired at 55. They thought his pension and soc.sec. would be more than enough. 6 years later, my grandmother had to take a job as a “shop girl” for a downtown La Jolla gift shop… Anyone who remembers the 70’s remembers the inflation…. and how people on fixed incomes were hit hard.

Keep the dream – but run the numbers and save aggressively.

[UCGal]

AN – I think it’s beyond a stretch to say Paul is ok on Gay Marriage. Specifically, the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which is a federal law that effects the recognition of same-sex marriage at the federal level.

He’s backed the DOMA – which bans gay marriage recognition at the federal level.
Some quotes:

Speaking to the group Family Leader in Pella, Paul said of DOMA, “I see that as an act that was prohibiting the move to nationalize [same-sex marriage] and force Iowa to accept the rules of Massachusetts or whatever,” The Des Moines Register reports. DOMA, which President Obama and the Justice Department said they will no longer defend in court, allows states to deny recognition to same-sex marriages performed in other states, and also prevents federal recognition of such unions.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/03/07/Ron_Paul_Supports_DOMA/

If I were in Congress in 1996, I would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which used Congress’s constitutional authority to define what official state documents other states have to recognize under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, to ensure that no state would be forced to recognize a “same sex” marriage license issued in another state. This Congress, I was an original cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act, HR 3313, that removes challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act from federal courts’ jurisdiction. If I were a member of the Texas legislature, I would do all I could to oppose any attempt by rogue judges to impose a new definition of marriage on the people of my state.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul207.html

He’s only for states rights to RESTRICT same sex marriage, not to ALLOW same sex marriage.

Not exactly libertarian on this issue.

[UCGal]

AN – I think it’s beyond a stretch to say Paul is ok on Gay Marriage. Specifically, the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which is a federal law that effects the recognition of same-sex marriage at the federal level.

He’s backed the DOMA – which bans gay marriage recognition at the federal level.
Some quotes:

Speaking to the group Family Leader in Pella, Paul said of DOMA, “I see that as an act that was prohibiting the move to nationalize [same-sex marriage] and force Iowa to accept the rules of Massachusetts or whatever,” The Des Moines Register reports. DOMA, which President Obama and the Justice Department said they will no longer defend in court, allows states to deny recognition to same-sex marriages performed in other states, and also prevents federal recognition of such unions.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/03/07/Ron_Paul_Supports_DOMA/

If I were in Congress in 1996, I would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which used Congress’s constitutional authority to define what official state documents other states have to recognize under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, to ensure that no state would be forced to recognize a “same sex” marriage license issued in another state. This Congress, I was an original cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act, HR 3313, that removes challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act from federal courts’ jurisdiction. If I were a member of the Texas legislature, I would do all I could to oppose any attempt by rogue judges to impose a new definition of marriage on the people of my state.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul207.html

He’s only for states rights to RESTRICT same sex marriage, not to ALLOW same sex marriage.

Not exactly libertarian on this issue.

[UCGal]

AN – I think it’s beyond a stretch to say Paul is ok on Gay Marriage. Specifically, the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which is a federal law that effects the recognition of same-sex marriage at the federal level.

He’s backed the DOMA – which bans gay marriage recognition at the federal level.
Some quotes:

Speaking to the group Family Leader in Pella, Paul said of DOMA, “I see that as an act that was prohibiting the move to nationalize [same-sex marriage] and force Iowa to accept the rules of Massachusetts or whatever,” The Des Moines Register reports. DOMA, which President Obama and the Justice Department said they will no longer defend in court, allows states to deny recognition to same-sex marriages performed in other states, and also prevents federal recognition of such unions.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/03/07/Ron_Paul_Supports_DOMA/

If I were in Congress in 1996, I would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which used Congress’s constitutional authority to define what official state documents other states have to recognize under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, to ensure that no state would be forced to recognize a “same sex” marriage license issued in another state. This Congress, I was an original cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act, HR 3313, that removes challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act from federal courts’ jurisdiction. If I were a member of the Texas legislature, I would do all I could to oppose any attempt by rogue judges to impose a new definition of marriage on the people of my state.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul207.html

He’s only for states rights to RESTRICT same sex marriage, not to ALLOW same sex marriage.

Not exactly libertarian on this issue.

[UCGal]

AN – I think it’s beyond a stretch to say Paul is ok on Gay Marriage. Specifically, the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which is a federal law that effects the recognition of same-sex marriage at the federal level.

He’s backed the DOMA – which bans gay marriage recognition at the federal level.
Some quotes:

Speaking to the group Family Leader in Pella, Paul said of DOMA, “I see that as an act that was prohibiting the move to nationalize [same-sex marriage] and force Iowa to accept the rules of Massachusetts or whatever,” The Des Moines Register reports. DOMA, which President Obama and the Justice Department said they will no longer defend in court, allows states to deny recognition to same-sex marriages performed in other states, and also prevents federal recognition of such unions.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/03/07/Ron_Paul_Supports_DOMA/

If I were in Congress in 1996, I would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which used Congress’s constitutional authority to define what official state documents other states have to recognize under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, to ensure that no state would be forced to recognize a “same sex” marriage license issued in another state. This Congress, I was an original cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act, HR 3313, that removes challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act from federal courts’ jurisdiction. If I were a member of the Texas legislature, I would do all I could to oppose any attempt by rogue judges to impose a new definition of marriage on the people of my state.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul207.html

He’s only for states rights to RESTRICT same sex marriage, not to ALLOW same sex marriage.

Not exactly libertarian on this issue.

[UCGal]

AN – I think it’s beyond a stretch to say Paul is ok on Gay Marriage. Specifically, the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which is a federal law that effects the recognition of same-sex marriage at the federal level.

He’s backed the DOMA – which bans gay marriage recognition at the federal level.
Some quotes:

Speaking to the group Family Leader in Pella, Paul said of DOMA, “I see that as an act that was prohibiting the move to nationalize [same-sex marriage] and force Iowa to accept the rules of Massachusetts or whatever,” The Des Moines Register reports. DOMA, which President Obama and the Justice Department said they will no longer defend in court, allows states to deny recognition to same-sex marriages performed in other states, and also prevents federal recognition of such unions.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/03/07/Ron_Paul_Supports_DOMA/

If I were in Congress in 1996, I would have voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which used Congress’s constitutional authority to define what official state documents other states have to recognize under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, to ensure that no state would be forced to recognize a “same sex” marriage license issued in another state. This Congress, I was an original cosponsor of the Marriage Protection Act, HR 3313, that removes challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act from federal courts’ jurisdiction. If I were a member of the Texas legislature, I would do all I could to oppose any attempt by rogue judges to impose a new definition of marriage on the people of my state.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul207.html

He’s only for states rights to RESTRICT same sex marriage, not to ALLOW same sex marriage.

Not exactly libertarian on this issue.

[UCGal]

I have a coworker who put 20% down – and can’t get a good refi because the LTV is about 90% now… so PMI kicks in. He’s got great credit. Never missed a payment, wants to take advantage of the lower rates but the PMI keeps the payment the same, so it’s not really worth it.

I guess I’d have less of an issue with this plan if it doesn’t extend the terms of the loan. The problem with serial refinancing is you keep restarting that 30 year mark…

I’d also insist on credit checks – and only offer this to folks with good credit/income.

Just apply the new interest to the loan for all candidates that pass credit checks.

Heck – I could keep my exact same interest rate and refi about $700 off my payment. Just by refi’ing from my 15 year to a 30 year. Extending the end date may help with monthly cash flow, but it doesn’t help retire the debt.

I agree with some of the other posts about the big problem with the economy being jobs.

[UCGal]

I have a coworker who put 20% down – and can’t get a good refi because the LTV is about 90% now… so PMI kicks in. He’s got great credit. Never missed a payment, wants to take advantage of the lower rates but the PMI keeps the payment the same, so it’s not really worth it.

I guess I’d have less of an issue with this plan if it doesn’t extend the terms of the loan. The problem with serial refinancing is you keep restarting that 30 year mark…

I’d also insist on credit checks – and only offer this to folks with good credit/income.

Just apply the new interest to the loan for all candidates that pass credit checks.

Heck – I could keep my exact same interest rate and refi about $700 off my payment. Just by refi’ing from my 15 year to a 30 year. Extending the end date may help with monthly cash flow, but it doesn’t help retire the debt.

I agree with some of the other posts about the big problem with the economy being jobs.

[Author]

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